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Why wouldn't Democrats give Trump his wall to save a million DACA immigrants?

The Democrats are the ones threatening not to agree on a budget (thus shutting the government down) if they don't get DACA. I just don't see the headline of "Democrats threaten to shut down government unless 800k illegals are granted amnesty" as a winning political strategy for them.



I know these arguments are disingenuous because no one here is willing to admit that money has nothing to do with it. But to respond to your point, there are actually proposals being floated for funding the wall through visa/immigration processing fees (so yes technically Mexico IS going to pay for the wall), but it's irrelevant because if you listen to the Dems in congress they are simply saying the wall is "stupid" and not complaining about its costs.

The Democrats cannot shut down the government over any piece of legislation. The Republicans have enough votes along party lines to pass anything, such as they did for the tax bill. The Republicans merely need to agree with each other.
 

Acerac

Banned
I appreciate that GAF now shows when a member joined the forums when they post. It isn't always helpful, but sometimes it provides a nice frame of reference.
 

AntoneM

Member
The Democrats are the ones threatening not to agree on a budget (thus shutting the government down) if they don't get DACA. I just don't see the headline of "Democrats threaten to shut down government unless 800k illegals are granted amnesty" as a winning political strategy for them.
More like Dems don't want kids to be deported from the US to a place where they have no home or family; and when they had no choice in the matter to begin with. That is simple human compassion. If simple human compassion shuts down the government then maybe the government deserves to be shut down.

I know these arguments are disingenuous because no one here is willing to admit that money has nothing to do with it. But to respond to your point, there are actually proposals being floated for funding the wall through visa/immigration processing fees (so yes technically Mexico IS going to pay for the wall), but it's irrelevant because if you listen to the Dems in congress they are simply saying the wall is "stupid" and not complaining about its costs.
No, in that case Mexicans would pay for the wall, not Mexico.
 
I know these arguments are disingenuous because no one here is willing to admit that money has nothing to do with it. But to respond to your point, there are actually proposals being floated for funding the wall through visa/immigration processing fees (so yes technically Mexico IS going to pay for the wall), but it's irrelevant because if you listen to the Dems in congress they are simply saying the wall is "stupid" and not complaining about its costs.
It's not disingenuous. It is the entire debate right now. What is disingenuous is you trying to pretend Trump did not lie when he promised Mexico would pay for the wall. What is disingenuous is you trying to pretend Trump is not is currently DEMANDING that US taxpayers pay for the wall. You can't spin that. To try to do so shows the weakness of your case. Just like with most things Trump, all I have to do to prove my point is quote him. Just hours ago he laid down an ultimatum that any immigration deal had to include funding for the wall.
President Trump said Wednesday he will not sign an immigration deal that does not include funding for a border wall.
"It's gotta include the wall," Trump said at a press conference with Norway's prime minister. "Any solution has to include the wall."
http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ot-sign-immigration-deal-without-wall-funding
That is the reality. It is your "proposals being floated for funding the wall through visa/immigration processing fees" that are the fairy dust. I did a quick Google search to see if I could find any news about it. Nothing came up after 2015. That's a couple of ideas ago at best. Since then we had the border adjustment tax idea, which was really a tax on the US consumer, and now we have what everyone thought would happen all along. Make the US taxpayers pay for it.
 
This the most correct and honest reply in this thread.

The wall could be 100% free, and Dems would still oppose it because of their grudge against Trump.

No. Fact. Real talk, you have to be ignorant as fuck to believe what you just wrote. The Dems already listed many reasons why they hate the wall.

That's some fox news or breitbart level interpretation.
 
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Super Mario

Banned
It's not disingenuous. It is the entire debate right now. What is disingenuous is you trying to pretend Trump did not lie when he promised Mexico would pay for the wall. What is disingenuous is you trying to pretend Trump is not is currently DEMANDING that US taxpayers pay for the wall. You can't spin that. To try to do so shows the weakness of your case. Just like with most things Trump, all I have to do to prove my point is quote him. Just hours ago he laid down an ultimatum that any immigration deal had to include funding for the wall.

You do realize how easy it is to claim Mexico "paid" for the wall, right? Quit pretending like you have your CNN blinders on. It was never once claimed that Mexico would cut us a check. Trump could very easily build the wall, and with the reduced costs from illegal immigration, claim that they paid for it.
 
You do realize how easy it is to claim Mexico "paid" for the wall, right? Quit pretending like you have your CNN blinders on. It was never once claimed that Mexico would cut us a check. Trump could very easily build the wall, and with the reduced costs from illegal immigration, claim that they paid for it.

So lie about it. Gotcha.

Immigration is already down. Immigrants also pay taxes. Companies will keep using cheap labor as long as they are allowed to. There has been no incentives given specifically to hire Americans at a higher rate that has been followed through.

You're trying to find a solution for something that really isn't a problem. In one breath, they brag about the low employment, then the next saying that people need the jobs of immigrants? Ones that most Americans wouldn't do?


Keep chasing that false narrative.
 

Super Mario

Banned
So lie about it. Gotcha.

Immigration is already down. Immigrants also pay taxes. Companies will keep using cheap labor as long as they are allowed to. There has been no incentives given specifically to hire Americans at a higher rate that has been followed through.

You're trying to find a solution for something that really isn't a problem. In one breath, they brag about the low employment, then the next saying that people need the jobs of immigrants? Ones that most Americans wouldn't do?


Keep chasing that false narrative.

Right. Illegal immigration is no longer a problem. The estimated 11 million illegal immigrants are no longer a concern because a line graph is moving downward during a time where the current president is taking a strong stance. Problem solved.

I'd like to check over the federal tax return of these people that really aren't here that much, but do pay the taxes.

If you're going to be against Trumps position, there is nothing wrong with that. I would absolutely listen to an argument towards a path to citizenship. When you pretend this problem doesn't exist, it makes you look silly. You may not get pounced on here. Try posting that somewhere else.
 
Right. Illegal immigration is no longer a problem. The estimated 11 million illegal immigrants are no longer a concern because a line graph is moving downward during a time where the current president is taking a strong stance. Problem solved.

I'd like to check over the federal tax return of these people that really aren't here that much, but do pay the taxes.

If you're going to be against Trumps position, there is nothing wrong with that. I would absolutely listen to an argument towards a path to citizenship. When you pretend this problem doesn't exist, it makes you look silly. You may not get pounced on here. Try posting that somewhere else.

Are you just going to ignore how many people were deported under Obama?

In fact: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...mexican-immigrants-than-obama-data-shows.html

The thing is, this is already something that was getting taken care of. That's why it's not as big of an issue as the WH or it's supporters are trying to claim it is. Especially in the face of all the stuff they are ignoring instead. Trump hasn't done shit to increase the efforts because what he has done has been widely ineffective. Just like the wall would. "Estimated numbers" are really all you have on your side. Let's see some numbers about the negative influence these immigrants has had on the economy. Then we can have a discussion.

Want some tax numbers? Here:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ow-much-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes/
 
You do realize how easy it is to claim Mexico "paid" for the wall, right? Quit pretending like you have your CNN blinders on. It was never once claimed that Mexico would cut us a check. Trump could very easily build the wall, and with the reduced costs from illegal immigration, claim that they paid for it.

You do realize that if Trump could get money out of Mexico to pay for the wall, he wouldn't have to ask the US taxpayers for the money to pay for the wall. Your entire argument has been boiled away to now only consist of saying, "Sure US taxpayers will pay for the wall, but Trump at some indeterminate point in the future will somehow con them into thinking Mexico paid for it." Yeah, that ain't gonna happen.

I'm afraid it is you who are stuck in the FOX Trump bubble and don't realize that the rest of us see right though the scam. Need I remind you that Trump's Jedi mind trick powers only fooled FOX's gullible viewers that the crowd in the left picture below(Trump 2017 Inauguration) was bigger than in the right picture(Obama 2009 Inauguration). The rest of us just laughed at Trump, and that continues to this day. That's why his current job approval is at 37% and his tax cut plan only has 32% support.

Trump has zero credibility. There are news organizations that have had to created databases just to keep track of all his lies(2,001 so far). Any argument that is relying on the Trump administration's ability to tell the truth is laughable on its face. The chance that Trump is telling the truth about the wall is the same chance that the right picture will appear empty just because Trump says "These are not the crowds you are looking for."

trump-vs-obama-rtswjvi.jpg
 
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Super Mario

Banned
Are you just going to ignore how many people were deported under Obama?

In fact: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...mexican-immigrants-than-obama-data-shows.html

Earlier in this discussion, I was presented this picture that shows illegal immigration is not a concern anymore because less illegals were being deported. Now which is it? More are being deported, or less?

removals_and_returns.png


The thing is, this is already something that was getting taken care of. That's why it's not as big of an issue as the WH or it's supporters are trying to claim it is. Especially in the face of all the stuff they are ignoring instead. Trump hasn't done shit to increase the efforts because what he has done has been widely ineffective. Just like the wall would.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...legal-immigration-lowest-17-years-trump-said/

Illegal immigration is at its lowest in 17 years

Experts have told us that Trump’s rhetoric has played a role in deterring illegal immigration, perhaps more so than his newly issued policies, which may take longer to implement on the ground.
"The recent dip in apprehensions likely does signify a trend, in particular as apprehensions typically rise in March and early spring," said Michelle Mittelstadt, spokeswoman for Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan think tank that researches migration.
It’s still to be determined if it’s a temporary lull or a lasting decline, "but at this point it seems clear that would-be migrants are concerned about rising enforcement not just at the border but within the United States," Mittelstadt said.



While we all know it's the cool thing to hate everything Trump does, and call him a moron. As a person of "facts," this one is tough to dispute

"Estimated numbers" are really all you have on your side. Let's see some numbers about the negative influence these immigrants has had on the economy. Then we can have a discussion.

Want some tax numbers? Here:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ow-much-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes/

From the link you posted

The Heritage Foundation came up with a similar result in a 2013 report. It found that the average undocumented immigrant household paid $10,334 in taxes. About half of these 3.4 million households do not pay any taxes.

Using Heritage’s analysis, that would translate to about $17.6 billion paid in taxes.

Heritage noted that the average undocumented immigrant household received about $24,721 in government benefits and services (i.e. public education, welfare benefits and services like police and highways), resulting in a deficit of $14,387.



Pretty negative influence on the economy, if you ask me.
 
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Acerac

Banned
Testing, 1, 2, 3.....
Oh I guess that feature got taken out.

I can understand it. I wouldn't want those who showed up after the moderation change to stick out either.

*edit*

If I was the one in charge of the changes, that is.
 
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phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Why not give Trump funding for his wall in exchange for legalization of DACA?

Well, one reason - and a rather good one - is that DACA wasn't illegal in the first place. So what has happened is that the Trump admin has cancelled DACA on the spurious grounds of purported illegality and then demanded the wall in exchange for putting it back. It's like Trump has stolen your football and demanded money to get it back.

Not just me saying that, here's the judgment in District Court.
 

pramod

Banned
Well, one reason - and a rather good one - is that DACA wasn't illegal in the first place. So what has happened is that the Trump admin has cancelled DACA on the spurious grounds of purported illegality and then demanded the wall in exchange for putting it back. It's like Trump has stolen your football and demanded money to get it back.

Not just me saying that, here's the judgment in District Court.

You know that has zero chance of getting through the Supreme Court, right?
 

SMOK3Y

Generous Member
Lots of really poor arguments here. Huge waste of money?

Let's do some math here. The US Federal Budget is roughly $4 trillion a year. It is estimated that illegal immigration cost us over $100 billion per year. The wall's estimated cost is $20 billion.

Would it be a perfect system? There is no such thing. Nor is anyone advocating such a thing. How are people illegally entering the US now? Do you think people are not hopping the fence? Do you know what the final product looks like? Do you understand that technology exists to monitor activity to circumvent the wall?

At the end of the day, could it be possible or even likely that it prevents $20 billion in illegal immigration costs to us, making it a wash? Please come to the table with a better argument than huge waste of money. Especially when few used such an argument as we racked up $20 trillion in debt.

It's all about politics. Trump wants to undo Obama's policies. Democrats want to block any attempt Trump makes at anything.
Well how about stop spending trillion a yr on military & weapons?
 

pramod

Banned
Well looks like time is running out and it seems like the 800k Dreamers are going to be sacrificial lambs so that the Democrats can stop Trump from getting a "win".

So what's next? Are the Dems really going to shut down the government over the Dreamers? I have a feeling that is not going to play well with the public. The American people wanted someone tough on immigration that's why they elected Trump.
 
Well looks like time is running out and it seems like the 800k Dreamers are going to be sacrificial lambs so that the Democrats can stop Trump from getting a "win".

So what's next? Are the Dems really going to shut down the government over the Dreamers? I have a feeling that is not going to play well with the public. The American people wanted someone tough on immigration that's why they elected Trump.

We already told you why everything that you said here is wrong. It's about time you grow up dude.
 
Earlier in this discussion, I was presented this picture that shows illegal immigration is not a concern anymore because less illegals were being deported. Now which is it? More are being deported, or less?

removals_and_returns.png




http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...legal-immigration-lowest-17-years-trump-said/

Illegal immigration is at its lowest in 17 years

Experts have told us that Trump’s rhetoric has played a role in deterring illegal immigration, perhaps more so than his newly issued policies, which may take longer to implement on the ground.
"The recent dip in apprehensions likely does signify a trend, in particular as apprehensions typically rise in March and early spring," said Michelle Mittelstadt, spokeswoman for Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan think tank that researches migration.
It’s still to be determined if it’s a temporary lull or a lasting decline, "but at this point it seems clear that would-be migrants are concerned about rising enforcement not just at the border but within the United States," Mittelstadt said.



While we all know it's the cool thing to hate everything Trump does, and call him a moron. As a person of "facts," this one is tough to dispute



From the link you posted

The Heritage Foundation came up with a similar result in a 2013 report. It found that the average undocumented immigrant household paid $10,334 in taxes. About half of these 3.4 million households do not pay any taxes.

Using Heritage’s analysis, that would translate to about $17.6 billion paid in taxes.

Heritage noted that the average undocumented immigrant household received about $24,721 in government benefits and services (i.e. public education, welfare benefits and services like police and highways), resulting in a deficit of $14,387.



Pretty negative influence on the economy, if you ask me.

Wow you just fired a shotgun blast of concentrated stupid. Yes illegals pay taxes however here is the rub most people do not know. If you work in social services illegals can not get foodstamps they can not get cash aid and they can not get medicaid. You also state police and highways and education. Which everyone uses and benefits from. Nobody pays enough taxes to fund roads or police. Its the shared costs that make them feasible. Here is what happens with illegals gone

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ences-georgias-immigration-law-backfires/amp/

https://www.proag.com/news/immigration-issues-threaten-agricultures-profitability/

So heres the question. Would you be willing to drastically increase the price of healthy foods and lead to greater inequality to keep a few immigrants out? How about destroying farming as a whole? How much are you willing to destroy to fuel racism against brown people? I'
curious because it almost sounds like envy that there's economies that outright destroy what the racists had even in their prime.

Plus foodstamps are a net positive because they grow the economy. They bring far more value than tax cuts or military spending. Food stamps keep farmers in business.
 

gohepcat

Banned
Well looks like time is running out and it seems like the 800k Dreamers are going to be sacrificial lambs so that the Democrats can stop Trump from getting a "win".

So what's next? Are the Dems really going to shut down the government over the Dreamers? I have a feeling that is not going to play well with the public. The American people wanted someone tough on immigration that's why they elected Trump.

Jesus Christ. You really are getting your news from a different planet.
 

AntoneM

Member
To answer the OP, it's because this is a problem Trump created by himself by an executive order which discontinued the authorization of DACA.
You know that has zero chance of getting through the Supreme Court, right?
Bullshit, DACA as a policy does not suspend all immigration enforcement rather it explicitly deprioritizes action on certain people who were brought to this country illegally. That is completely within the bounds of the executive branch.
 
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You make this way too easy. Did you even bother reading the links you provided? Those links repeat the claim that The Wall is moronic. All they are saying is that the dems could give Trump something to save face that he could call The Wall (even though it isn't) for concessions. Here let me show you what your own links think about Trump's wall.
  • National Review: "All it takes is giving Trump a plausible start to the Wall that the president can then, in his inimitable way, promote as the greatest structure built on a border since Hadrian began his famous handiwork at the northern limit of the Roman Empire in 122."
  • Bloomberg: "The wall is not a good idea; it's a colossal boondoggle in the making. That's why many Republicans as well as Democrats oppose the president's signature initiative."
  • Sentinel & Enterprise: "The wall is not a good idea; it's a colossal boondoggle in the making. That's why many Republicans as well as Democrats oppose the president's signature initiative." (duplicate article)
  • NY Times: "The wall Mr. Trump promised isn’t going to materialize, and he’s not going to insist on it. Of course, Mr. Trump will say that new border security enhancements constitute a wall."
  • Post And Courier: "The wall is not a good idea; it’s a colossal boondoggle in the making. That’s why many Republicans as well as Democrats oppose the president’s signature initiative." (hmm...yet another duplicate. Seems like somebody really had to stretch to make it seem they had a point)
  • NY Mag: "To finance his border wall, the president has asked Congress “to cut or delay funding for border surveillance, radar technology, patrol boats and customs agents in its upcoming spending plan to curb illegal immigration,” the New York Times reported this week. There is no serious question that prioritizing a wall over these measures would make the border less secure, and increase the number of undocumented immigrants in the United States."
  • Post Gazette: "The wall is not a good idea; it's a colossal boondoggle in the making. That's why many Republicans as well as Democrats oppose the president's signature initiative." (Well what do you know. Yet another repeat, and yet another newspaper that agrees that the wall sucks)
The idea of a wall across the entire southern border was a crazy stupid idea from the first second it was suggested and all sane people knew it. Wait...what's that I hear? You still don't believe me. Well even the Trump administration now admits The Wall was impractical. Out of the horse's mouth...
"What's true is that after conferring with the experts that are involved in this process, Christopher, the president discovered that part of it will be the physical wall, part of it is better technology, part of it is also fencing," Conway said.
"There are rivers involved, I'm told," she added. "There are mountains involved, there's terrain that isn't conducive to building an actual physical structure in some places."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/k...d-for-entire-us-mexico-border/article/2645600

Ouch. That has to leave a mark.

Ok, so let's get back the the point all those links tried to make. That the dems should compromise on some small part of the wall and security to make a deal. Hmmm... Guess what? That is exactly what the dems did. They proposed $1.6 billion dollars this year for the border wall and security only to have Trump throw a racist "shithole" temper tantrum and reject it.(yeah that word in now part of intelligent political discussions now. Thanks Trump)

According to multiple sources, the Group of Six plan includes permanent protections for “Dreamers,”--which is what DACA recipients call themselves--$1.6 billion for border security, and revisions to the diversity visa lottery and what critics call “chain” migration.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sour...mmigrants-haiti-africa-hole/story?id=52295756
 

Discourse

Member
I'm not American but weren't your voters told that Mexico would pay for the wall? Why are other issues held hostage to pay for the wall that your president promised Mexico was paying for?

636328876675203425-Vicente-Fox-video.png
 

pramod

Banned
The Democrats are the ones creating the hostage situation though...they are holding the country hostage and threatening to shut down the government if they don't get their amnesty for 800k illegals now.
 
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rokkerkory

Member
The Democrats are the ones creating the hostage situation though...they are holding the country hostage and threatening to shut down the government if they don't get their amnesty for 800k illegals now.

A tactic they learned well during Obama days!

GOP owns all branches of government, if government shuts down then they are the ones to blame.
 
The Democrats are the ones creating the hostage situation though...they are holding the country hostage and threatening to shut down the government if they don't get their amnesty for 800k illegals now.
Facts just aren't your friend. First, Trump is the one who created the whole DACA crisis when he "ordered an end to the Obama-era program that shields young undocumented immigrants from deportation, calling it an 'amnesty-first approach'".

Second, Trump admitted that he created the problem, because he said that he would revisit the issue if congress couldn't fix it.
President Trump said Tuesday that he would revisit his decision to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program if lawmakers are unable to pass legislation on the matter in the next six months.
http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...l-revisit-daca-decision-if-lawmakers-dont-act

Finally, Trump pledged to “take the heat” if Congress pursued a comprehensive reform package. Well congress did exactly just that. Durbin and Graham led a bipartisan group that came up with a plan that Trump torpedoed with his "shithole" tirade.

The president's remarks came at a moment of frustration during an Oval Office meeting with Republican and Democratic lawmakers Thursday, as they were presenting an opening bid for a broad immigration package.
...
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., another member of the group, added that "we have answered the call" of Trump, who brought Democrats and Republicans together at the White House earlier this week and called on them to reach a deal he can sign.
...
Graham and Durbin presented details of the plan to the president and a handful of conservative Republicans at a hastily arranged Oval Office meeting, where Trump made his insulting remarks, including the outburst about Haiti because of its participation in the TPS program along with El Salvador and Nicaragua, several aides said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...er-immigration-compromise-20180111-story.html
So to sum up, Trump...
  1. Created the DACA crisis
  2. Said he'd revist the situation if congress did not solve the crises he created
  3. Sabotaged the bipartisan agreement that the Senate did work out
...and you want to blame the current situation on the democrats. That Fox bubble must be cutting off your air.
 

Super Mario

Banned
I read this story on Facebook yesterday. I know it will be quickly dismissed as fake, because if it doesn't come from a liberal news site, it can't be real. We all know there is no such way to ever classify an entire group of people. Everyone is different and unique. I do find it hard to believe though that this story, has little truth to it.


From a California school teacher.....

As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language
Department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title-1 school, meaning that its students average in the lower socio-economic and income levels. Most of the schools you are hearing about are South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where their students are protesting – these are also Title-1 schools.

Title-1 schools are on the free-breakfast and free-lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking about a glass of milk and a roll ... But a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make the Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (Our tax dollars at work!)
I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more have cell phones.

The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (More of our tax dollars at work!)
I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department, or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything. My budget was already substantial, but I ended up buying new computers for the Computer Learning Center, half of which, one month later, were carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America. (More and more of our tax dollars at work!)

I have had to intervene several times for young substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less than 3 months, who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them put as (whores) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical care, free education, free food, free day care, etc., etc., etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled not only to be in this country, but also to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society, because they happen to like their gardener and/or housekeeper, and they like to pay less for tomatoes, I say: Spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the true costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases, etc., etc., etc.
For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

America, we need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by age 15, and that refuses to assimilate, plus an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "political correctness," that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know including your Congressman and Senators.

Cheap labor? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about? Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage. Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell you 'Americans don't want the jobs.' But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an income tax return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200, free.

In addition:

1. He qualifies for Section-8 housing and subsidized rent
2. He qualifies for food stamps
3. He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care
4. His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school
5. He requires bilingual teachers and books
6. He qualifies for relief from high energy bills
7. If they are, or become aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI
8. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare (All of this at taxpayer's {our} expense
9. He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance
10. Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material
11. He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits
12. Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills.
13. The American taxpayers also pays for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor is such a ruse as to be laughable.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
You know that has zero chance of getting through the Supreme Court, right?

Well no, I don't know that. It is a very well reasoned opinion, and lays out thoroughly the history of deferred action, differences between DACA and DAPA and so on. There's a lot to unpick there and I very much doubt that SCOTUS will want to take it on as it stands - though I see the Trump admin is trying hard to bypass the 9th circuit (that won't work).

So far as I can tell the real hurdles that the Trump admin will want to argue and have to overcome are:
(a) whether it is justiciable at all, and that's a hard hurdle to get over because if it isn't, the side effect is basically that no executive actions are justiciable and that we got a dictator state already
(b) whether there is standing, which there reasonably clearly is (barring two plaintiffs who were taken out)
(c) whether Trumps EO was capricious (etc). Which it was on the government's own account

The government has done itself few favours in the case so far - like wanting to run it entirely on the administrative record, agreeing to do so, and then refusing to release to the court 80% of the administrative records.

It is by no means cut and dried, regardless the makeup of the Supreme Court. If it gets that far.

That said, this is a partial injunction. It's not by any means what the Dems want or, indeed, what the bipartisan bill proposes. So it is not a complete substitute.
 
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I read this story on Facebook yesterday. I know it will be quickly dismissed as fake, because if it doesn't come from a liberal news site, it can't be real. We all know there is no such way to ever classify an entire group of people. Everyone is different and unique. I do find it hard to believe though that this story, has little truth to it.

It's not fake because it doesn't come from a liberal news site. It is fake because it has zero sources and whose only claim to legitimacy is that you "find it hard to believe though that this story, has little truth to it". You are the same person who entered this conversation by saying "Lots of really poor arguments here". Now your argument has been reduced to an unsubstantiated a chain letter with numerous errors that has been going around since 2006. If your argument really did have substance, you should be able to find supporting evidence of higher quality than a chain letter, or data from an organization started by a white nationalist.

Finally, nothing in that chain letter counters anything already said here about the stupidity of wasting money on an ineffectual wall on the southern border. The main criticism about the wall is that it is unneeded and even if you wanted to strengthen the southern border, there are much better ways to do it. You are proposing a strawman that proponents of the wall are advocating illegal immigration. What we are saying is that you have emotionally latched onto the wall and aren't seeing the big picture.

Just look at which side has the better track record. We said that Mexico was never going to pay for the wall, and now Trump is asking $18 billion dollars from the US taxpayers to pay for the wall. We said it was beyond impractical to do a physical concrete wall across the entire southern border, and now "after conferring with the experts", the Trump administration admits we were right. We rightfully point to the net negative illegal immigration rate as proof that the wall not only isn't the only way to deal with illegal immigration, it isn't even necessary. We point out that 40% of illegal immigration are people we let in and overstayed their welcome, so right off the bat a porous wall could at most only affect 60% of the problem.

A dubious chain letter does not address or change any of those facts.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I read this story on Facebook yesterday. I know it will be quickly dismissed as fake, because if it doesn't come from a liberal news site, it can't be real. We all know there is no such way to ever classify an entire group of people. Everyone is different and unique. I do find it hard to believe though that this story, has little truth to it.

Quite apart from the rest of it, and the comment above, just take a look at this:

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department, or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything. My budget was already substantial, but I ended up buying new computers for the Computer Learning Center.

You spent $700,000 on computers you did not need? That's where your tax dollars go. Just add a few zeros for the defense budget.
 
I read this story on Facebook yesterday. I know it will be quickly dismissed as fake, because if it doesn't come from a liberal news site, it can't be real. We all know there is no such way to ever classify an entire group of people. Everyone is different and unique. I do find it hard to believe though that this story, has little truth to it.
I can't believe you posted such obvious bullshit. Do you genuinely believe this isn't complete nonsense or are you just trying to stir up trouble here?
 

Xfader

Banned
You don't negotiate with braindead morons. The more that Republicans tacitly support Trump, the more elections they're going to lose. It won't be long before the Dems don't need to make deals to save DACA. I'm amazed Republicans haven't picked up on this yet.
 

Ke0

Member
The Democrats are the ones creating the hostage situation though...they are holding the country hostage and threatening to shut down the government if they don't get their amnesty for 800k illegals now.

But don't Republicans have control of all 3 of your government's branches? From what I understand you don't need the Democrats to pass this at all. So how is it their fault? American politics are weird.
 
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The Democrats are the ones creating the hostage situation though...they are holding the country hostage and threatening to shut down the government if they don't get their amnesty for 800k illegals now.

Lmaoo yes the democrats who dont control any branch goverment are the ones holding the countery hostage of course you convieniently forgot the actual hostage holding the republicans were during obma . Yes lets save30 billion by spending 100 billion and god knows how much to maintain the wall all while giving big tax cuts to the poor cooperation who are making record breaking profits and of course we gotta up are military spending to blow up more brown people all of that while we cant even secure money for fuckin children health but i guess that boner for screwing over all these immigrants is more important right?
 

gohepcat

Banned
I read this story on Facebook yesterday. I know it will be quickly dismissed as fake, because if it doesn't come from a liberal news site, it can't be real. We all know there is no such way to ever classify an entire group of people. Everyone is different and unique. I do find it hard to believe though that this story, has little truth to it.

Come on man. You need to set some sort of standards when it comes to believing a story. This is a random facebook post with no source. I see plenty of this shit from some of the more dopy of my liberal friends on facebook. It's absolutely not exclusive to the right or left, it's just a dangerous way to get your news.

Please do me a favor and find your local public radio or TV station (NPR or PBS). I know that you probably consider them left, but just listen to the style of that reporting. Listen to the nature of that type of serious news. It's a source that has a reputation to uphold. You can disagree with them, but it's just so night and day from the garbage people post on Facebook.
 

zumphry

Banned
I read this story on Facebook yesterday. I know it will be quickly dismissed as fake, because if it doesn't come from a liberal news site, it can't be real. We all know there is no such way to ever classify an entire group of people. Everyone is different and unique. I do find it hard to believe though that this story, has little truth to it.

imagine literally reading this, seeing absolutely no sources or citations to back up the literal list of lies at the end, and thinking 'oh yeah, this one's for real.'
 
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