Manmademan
Member
yeah, you're right. US sales were at 82,000 for two months in 07, April and may I think.
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Wii U US November Sales Estimated at 149K by Pachter
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yeah, you're right. US sales were at 82,000 for two months in 07, April and may I think.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Hey, if you want to argue that Xbox One might struggle, certainly to keep up with PS4, I'll agree with you. But I don't see that as particularly relevant towards arguing that Wii U isn't struggling, isn't appealing to the masses, or stands to benefit. It's mostly just a distraction from the topic at hand.
The thing is if you look at the anecdotal evidence (stores,etc) and general current media/forum responses more people are digging the wiiu, people cant find a ps4 and the X1 is not selling like people thought.
In regards to 3rd party support for the X1, I mentioned that. Those 3rd part games are also going to be found on the cheaper PS4 which also offers better hardware. Some of those 3rd party games are also going to be on the 360.
How or why should people kick up $500 to play games they can play elsewhere? Especially when they can play those 3rd party games on machines that offer a much better value and better performance or they can play it on their existing console?
gigantor21
Member
True, but it also had several advantages that the WiiU didn't--solid, obvious branding, better third-party support and no argument over it being "next-gen" chief among them. Plus even during it's shittiest point in the first few years I don't think it was ever as bad as the WiiU sales-wise. Let alone for such a sustained period.
There was clearly pent-up demand for the device being locked off by its supply problems and (more importantly) its stupid ass price point. Yet even then, it took several years, a complete rebranding, and several critically acclaimed games to really tap into it in a big way. The WiiU has even less to fall back on in that regard, and is tracking below the Dreamcast at this point. What on Earth can Nintendo do?
it was under 100k from april-june 2007 and didn't go back until sometime this year iirc.
I just want to note that 'saved' is relative, since PS3 still destroyed Sony's profits from multiple generations of PlayStation hardware. It was a turnaround and ended up being a good system for games, but even Sony admits the many failings of the PS3. As a business, they couldn't possibly be genuinely happy with the results since profits are the real motivating factor for such companies.
Randolph Freelander
Member
What does that have to do with Wii U? If those gamers switch to PS4, How does it help Nintendo?
How can Nintendo make a system as powerful as the PS4 while at a cheaper price? Wouldn't they have to wait a couple years until price of the parts go down? I'm not saying they will do this btw, but to those saying they should just release a new console to match the next gen, I don't really see how they could do that. Just seems like another disaster (more money, a high price that matches the other systems etc).
Mikey Jr.
Member
Is "stopped the bleeding" a better way of saying it?
What does the 1's performance have to do with anything we're discussing? Pach's estimates have it at 750k- way below the PS4- but still FIVE TIMES his WiiU projections. Thats ignoring the fact that the Bone was out for HALF the time in that month that the WiiU was.
metalslimer
Member
This an awful way to determine a system's momentum. People started to dig Vita as well, and we all know that system is dead as a doornail. The general consumer is way different from the people reading gaming reviews online and posting on forums.
..
Because Nintendo for some reason seems to think advertising Wii U is not that important.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Because Ellen and her audience have had iPads for the last 3 years the Wii gamepad isn't going to look all that impressive to them. It doesn't have that same "it" factor that the Wii had.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I don't think Mario would go as far with Ellen's audience as you think it will.
AwakenedCloud
Member
Wonder how Sega is feeling about that Sonic exclusivity deal now.
freenudemacusers
Member
while this is UK-specific, I wonder how it felt to have a year's head start wiped away in two days by just one console. Like, shot of whiskey or everclear?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
What black Friday deals? They didn't really push it.
Probably hoping they can put out all 3 on 3DS.
metalslimer
Member
Probably pretty terrible, but the audience for Sonic games is primarily on Nintendo systems so they probably would have been better off sticking with the Wii. I do feel bad because Nintendo's decline this gen is going to hurt pubs like Sega and they'll probably end up doing things many of us don't want.
I've said this for months, but nothing short of a drastic price reduction is going to help sell the U. Every game that's come out so far has been the "one" that will get people interested, but it hasn't happened. The writing is on the wall and this moving of the goal posts that the faithful keep doing is the equilivent of sticking their collective heads in the sand.
$149 or bust.
I'm with you there buddy.
I don't know. Because they like the Xbox Live environment? Because of brand loyalty or Halo?
PS4 looked like a shitty value proposition initially, but it survived. And it was helped through its initial years because of the same multiplatform parity that you currently de-emphasize. Having the ability to more easily port across the HD twins kept the PS3 visible and viable until Sony's first-parties and price cuts could drag it out of its grave. Third party ports and closer technical specs to allow for them are not luxuries that the Wii U has.
(And, as a side note, I'm not convinced the 720p/1080p gulf is something that will kill Xbone's sales or its support... I think Gaffers are too preoccupied with these kinds of technical distinctions and are extremely ignorant of the mass market's indifference to them.)
But I don't really care about how you think the PS4 can convert former Xbox fans... because it has nothing to do with the Wii U itself. How does Sony gaining Xbox fans relate to the Wii U or put it in a better position? I'm not seeing the connecting strands here.
My argument here is that the PS4/Xbone benefit from an environment where multiplatform games and first-party games will dominate the news cycle and steady coverage of them will translate to momentum; the Wii U will be excluded from that. It doesn't get better from here on out, it gets much worse. "Not being apart of the conversation" is Nintendo's biggest problem.
PotionBleue
Member
People reported there were multiple in-store offers with Deluxe bundles (such as the Zelda one) at $249 instead of $299.
True but if it hits her "Must have Xmas List" like everyday time show has. It wouldn't hurt sales. It might get some parents/grandparents to buy the console for little Jimmy.
No but it wouldn't hurt getting the name out plus I didn't just limit it to Ellen. Any day time talk show would be better then letting the thing sell on its own.
Imperfected
Member
Not fantastic, though at this point Sonic's a small enough percentage of SEGA's annual take that it shouldn't be putting them in dire circumstances. They don't exactly expect to make billions off the franchise to begin with. They're more about publishing and non-console gaming on the whole.
Ninja Scooter
Member
But why would it be on their list? The system has nothing but negative buzz. It's not a "must have" or top christmas item. If those types of shows are going to devote time to a video game at this point, it would probably be the PS4 or XBone since both of those have better public perception with the general consumer.
Trogdor1123
Member
I want to see some crazy sales now. Id totally buy one with Mario World for less than 200. Hell im tempted at full price but with all the issues, i can wait.
Maidenpool?
Member
It's a nice idea, but let's face it... at this point little Jimmy would be pissed if he opened the wrapping paper on Christmas to find a Wii U. Little Jimmy wants a ps4/xbone.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
What issues exactly? The console is pretty great besides the overall sales numbers. I'd say it's worth $299 with the 2 games it comes with.
Sony saved the Playstation brand. They had a much stronger position to fortify, but in order to maintain long term brand recognition they started reducing COGS on PS3 to minimize financial losses while building up a good library, and started working with 3rd party developers heavily when designing PS4. They did a complete reversal out of the ditch they were in 2007-8, and they're just now, *maybe*, recapturing the position they had with PS2. They did basically everything right. It was like they were drunk with PS3's design and launch and they sobered up.
I really think they fucked up by not having a GOGOGO bundle like the Black Friday AssCreed Vita bundle of last year.
I'd have jumped in at 150, or 200 maybe with a game. Its super low, I know- but thats just my price point, not in any particular rush to get the system. The exclusives will be there, and theres no multiplayer/community hook thats forcing me to jump in now.
3.91 million shipped as of the 30th September. Reported by Nintendo:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/hard_soft/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1309.pdf
Caffeine
Member
it doesnt matter the end result will always be nintendo makes money even if it takes 7 years.
if nintendo did cut the life of this console i assure you the 4 million current owners wouldnt even pick up the new one and it would end up in a worst state than this.
only fixing now time to start selling and shooting for a better year each year from here on out.
if nintendo did cut the life of this console i assure you the 4 million current owners wouldnt even pick up the new one and it would end up in a worst state than this.
only fixing now time to start selling and shooting for a better year each year from here on out.
I'd be all over a $199 3D World too...that plus once I can transfer all my 15 or so SNES and NES games from my Wii (is that already possible actually?)
shinra-bansho
Member
To an extent. The PS3 was ridiculously overpriced, and required substantial loss-leading to recover (and it was already substantially loss-leading to begin with.)
But take this into consideration, the PS3 only really "recovered" after it reached the $299 price point and essentially relaunched, but even when it reached price parity with the 360 it was still consistently beaten by it. (I should note I'm referring to the US market.)
Why? Because it still offered inherently less value to consumers, it didn't reach a value parity, despite price parity. They had largely the same games, their networked services were mostly equivalent, their prices were close enough. But it had a larger playerbase, more people in one's peer group were likely to own it, and this creates value in terms of the ability to trade titles and to play games online.
The 360's early advantage due to a head start and better sales in early cycle, made the system inherently more valuable throughout the remainder of the cycle. It resulted in a bandwagon effect.
The opposite is essentially in play for the Wii U.
The lack of installed base makes the system inherently less valuable. There is less likelihood of people with which to exchange software with, and there are less people either amongst one's peer group or in the wider online sphere to play games with.
This in turn makes the system less valuable to developers as a potential platform.
The lack of developer support also makes the system inherently less valuable.
And so on.
jvm posed a thought experiment in one of his recent articles: If EA or another major publisher made their own system, and it only had their titles on it, would a consumer consider it a worthwhile value proposition. I think the answer is no for EA. But it's also no for Nintendo. At least at $300.
Just a couple retailers did that, and not even during the whole weekend.
Ninja Scooter
Member
And remember when people earlier this year whined about how unfair it was that Third Parties were neglecting WIi U while supporting the new consoles that had "Zero userbase"? THIS is why.
I'm not saying they are directly related, I was quoting someone else in my response that had to do with the x1.
Guess will just have to see how things play out in the next few months. The gist of my thoughts are the wiiu has changed course and sales will be trending upwards (for the most part) in 2014 which I feel is Nintendos main goal. I also think the X1 is going to end up struggling come 2014 (relative to expectations and the ps4).
We can disagree or argue, etc but only time will tell. Right now we see the estimates, anecdotal evidence, etc through different lenses which is fine.
TBH at this point the 4 million current owner's loyalty shouldn't even matter to Nintendo if that's all they're getting. I mean, a console that sells well sells 50-100 million, why does pissing off 4 million customers even matter at this point.
Manmademan
Member
the "zero userbase" argument was always hilarious bullshit, and everyone knows it.
Certainly, and I'd say so far with the hyper successful launch of PS4, they are seemingly back on the path toward making the PlayStation enterprise very profitable and compelling for the mass market again. I just tend to try to separate the idea that the system ended up being good for gamers (which PS3 certainly was) versus the system being a success in the companies eyes (profits).
Not really true my nephews for example who are 5 and 3 which would be a key demographic for Nintendo. Could tell you all about the WiiU but not either of the two new fancy consoles.
Nintendo only needs to spend money on some marketing and they'd gain sales. Public perception can be changed with one really good marketing push.
Rocks were sold as pets at one point in time, anything is possible.
GitarooMan
Member
I remember that period. Those were amongst the dumbest arguments I've ever seen on GAF. "But but but, PS4/Xbone's userbase is 0, while Wii U is 1 million, WTF is with the support?" Just was an epic fundamental misunderstanding of everything basically.
Caffeine
Member
because the 4 milliion are probably hardcore nintendo fans and if they got shafted they wouldnt even be there for launch. to reach 50-100 million would still take 6 years.
wii u after 7 years could still pull off 30-35 million if starts going up from here. I think people should give them another year before they judge anything.
Manmademan
Member
pretty much. Even if they do kill the system, it's basically only the hardest of hardcore nintendo fans who bought in anyway- I'd bet good money half of them would be back if the next system had a really compelling first party title.
Imagine if sony announced tomorrow that "they gave it a good try, but the vita was dead" and moved on. there's enough good will from their other platforms and previous efforts that it's unlikely to really make a difference. I own a vita and wouldn't even be mad. it is what it is.
WOW. no. Reggie, it's time to stop posting.
Ninja Scooter
Member
For every "pet rock" example you can pull out from 40 years ago, the landscape is littered with consumer electronics in the last 5-10 years, that came from big name companies, who at one point were in big positions of power, and were backed by huge marketing campaigns, and still completely failed. You can't make people care about the Microsoft Zune. You can't make people care about the Blackberry B10. You can't make people care about the HP Touchpad.
Caffeine
Member
no i wont stop posting you guys need to give nintendo another year.
But I don't understand how you think the Wii U changed course. If these sales numbers are to be believed, it's remains a zombie console. The fact that a handful of publications made some requisite "Why You Should Think About a Wii U" article as holiday shopping clickbait or to play contrarian isn't a sustained enough change in fortunes to lead to anything.
And, regardless of what you think of Xbone's chances, it at least has a chance to remain in the conversation because it will have not only first-party games BUT third-party support as well. That means a steady focus of press coverage from enthusiast sites towards PS4/Xbone together that Nintendo will be excluded from. Meanwhile Nintendo will get perfunctory coverage/attention two or three time a year when they release a game the "hardcore" give a shit about.
My argument is based in the thought that sustained, continuing coverage of these systems keeps them viable, relevant, and a part of the conversation. Nintendo is not a part of the conversation. This sort of sustained coverage is something that has evaporated from Nintendo, will continue to evaporate from Nintendo, and that will keep their fortunes sinking. Your analysis is more hopeful than realistic.
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