DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
No, just you. You're really not making a point. Just another fanboy argument.
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Xbox Scarlett – why the next Xbox is going to be huge.
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
No, just you. You're really not making a point. Just another fanboy argument.
zwiggelbig
Member
About the exclusives.. Its also hardcore gamers who get the ps4 exclusives, then tell their friends about it and their friends buy a ps4 because he has one or coz they can borrow the games
Thiagosc777
Member
AlexxKidd
Member
BANGS
Banned
No, we just understand how statistics work...
...And we're not fanboys https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox-one-a-bad-system.1467075/#post-253519526
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Thiagosc777
Member
The people who play those games migrated to the PS4 in the beginning of the generation. That's why it sold even though it had no exclusives worth talking about for the first 2 years.
Do you think people bought the PS4 because of Knack?
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Oddvintagechap
Member
PSNOW is a failure? It has a 52% Marketshare compared to Xbox’s GamePass 15%. Your jokes. That is their BC. And by default Nintendo’s BC is going to be better than Sony’s, Sony’s BC is going to be better than Microsoft’s.
https://www.superdataresearch.com/gaming-subscription/
I’m not sure what magical exclusives Xbox one has in store.
All of the Top Ten games for PS4 sold more than Xbox 1’s Top Ten.
God of War (2018) sold more than Halo 5. GTA V sold double on PS4 for example. Exclusives are huge. I don’t pick a console for multi platform games.
http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=73074
If Xbox “two” came out before March 2020 (PS5 rumored date). Would that actually do it any good? With diminishing returns will a slight power advantage do any good? Xbox is at a great disadvantage. Every premier PS4 exclusive is bigger than Xbox’s crown jewel(Halo) at this point. GG
https://www.superdataresearch.com/gaming-subscription/
I’m not sure what magical exclusives Xbox one has in store.
All of the Top Ten games for PS4 sold more than Xbox 1’s Top Ten.
God of War (2018) sold more than Halo 5. GTA V sold double on PS4 for example. Exclusives are huge. I don’t pick a console for multi platform games.
http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=73074
If Xbox “two” came out before March 2020 (PS5 rumored date). Would that actually do it any good? With diminishing returns will a slight power advantage do any good? Xbox is at a great disadvantage. Every premier PS4 exclusive is bigger than Xbox’s crown jewel(Halo) at this point. GG
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Its just my opinion but the extra $100 at launch doomed the Xbox.
Way too many moms went to buy little Timmy a new console and looked at the price and the console war was over.
Way too many moms went to buy little Timmy a new console and looked at the price and the console war was over.
Thiagosc777
Member
That's revenue, not number of users. PSNow is more expensive and has been around for far longer.
VGChartz data is pure guess. For example, at some point it said the Gears series had sold in total around 13 million, some time after MS celebrated the 25 million for the franchise. They were off by 50%. Those numbers aren't worth considering.
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AlexxKidd
Member
The PlayStation 4 sold because it's the Sony PlayStation. They can release a system tomorrow with NO games and it will sell because people have come to expect quality exclusives over the years. They know the games are coming. It is a trusted brand name. Sony's WORST selling console sold 84 million units. The same amount as Microsoft's BEST selling console.
The extra 100 doomed it with more than just moms. Any early adopter who was informed knew it was an extra 100 for less horsepower. I think a credible argument could be made that losing the informed crowd was worse. By the time MS righted the ship on price, the narrative was set and the war was already lost.
Thiagosc777
Member
Wait a minute. It was all about the "exclusives", now you are changing the argument to "brand loyalty", even though the PS3 proved otherwise.
Ok, crazy person, go on.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Well Knack shifted a couple of million units, Bloodborne did similarly. And you'e deluding yourself if you're thinking that people don't buy consoles on the promise of future titles as much as those presently available.
Particularly in the first couple of years thanks to the nature of the early adopter market.
Curious to know how you reconcile PS3 catching up with 360's year-long headstart if exclusives don't matter, or do you choose not to recognize how TLOU's success late in the gen set the stage for the PS4's strong early performance.
Remember we're talking about a game with 17million sales across PS3 and PS4, the remastered version of which arrived 7 months after launch.
AlexxKidd
Member
Can you not read?
Furthermore....
The PlayStation 3 - Sony's worst selling console - sold 84 million units. If you think that's bad then maybe you also believe Microsoft needs to get out of the console business then, am I right? Because according to that logic Microsoft has released nothing but failed machines.
After you.
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Thiagosc777
Member
PS4 strong early performance had absolutely nothing to do with TLOU or any other game. It was purely because of MS mistakes.
And 99% of the people who bought the PS4 early, did it because of COD and Fifa. Knack and any other exclusive weren't even considered.
The PS3 was full of exclusives, more than the PS4, and it didn't help it much.
Only fanboys like to make "exclusive" lists for bragging on forums, everyone else is too busy playing multiplatform games.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
True too just not sure which makes up the bigger customer base. Those who knew the power difference vs those who did not.
""
Thiagosc777
Member
They lost 50% of their playerbase. Yes, that's quantifiably and objectively bad. MS quadrupled theirs.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Hey, reduce it down to TLOU if you want. That's still 17million plus reasons alone why your argument has zero merit.
Just give up already, you're not winning this argument.
Thiagosc777
Member
What argument? You mean reality?
https://wccftech.com/npd-top-10-games-sold-ps4-xb1/
Those are the numbers. And, BTW, there's no TLOU in the top 10 list.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
TLOU doesn't count bundles and this is based on revenue alone (Last of Us was under 30 for most of this generation). 17 units sold on PS3\PS4, which means the game was huge.
It was also stated on Resetera that UC4 would make the list if bundles were counted.
This is also US sales where NBA 2K games doesn't sell nearly as well in other regions. The biggest PS exclusives are selling more than 8 million copies and not too many games on that platform sell more.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
There are no unit sales on that list you fool, its a just a sales ranking for single platforms in a single territory. By your terms global sales behemoths like FIFA are just as irrelevent, do you not understand how it proves nothing.
Meanwhile TLOU is still 17million reasons why platform exclusives matter, be it at the end of a gen or right at the beginning.
AlexxKidd
Member
Since you mistakenly overlooked parts of my post I'll say it again, it was an honest mistake on your part, I'm sure. Here:
Can you not read?
-Now, on to your new post.
It is their worst selling console, as I said. And first of all they didn't lose 50% of their base because the PS2 didn't sell 168 million units. Second of all the PlayStation 2 is the highest selling console OF ALL TIME. No one has done better than that. If anything, Sony managed to keep more than 50% of the highest selling game system ever's userbase despite selling a $600 console.
When Sony makes a "failure," they still sell 84 mil. When Microsoft makes a "failure," well....here we are.
Thiagosc777
Member
Who would have thought that people bought the PS4 to play Knack! Hahahaha
Knack is the bees knees, apparently. And Killzone Shadowfall and the truckload of trash exclusives the PS4 had at the beginning of the generation. Those were the real reason for its success!
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Lets stick with TLOU, because it alone disproves pretty much everything you've argued.
17 million sales according to Sony (via Polygon who reported in June 2018). Published estimates put the split at around 7million on PS3 alone so thats around 10million for the remaster.
Its Sony owned and exclusive. It first launched right at the end of the PS3 cycle and sold great. The remaster launched 7months into the PS4 cycle and sold even better. Sony have been hyping the sequel to this 17million seller for the past 2 years, and it still doesn't have a fixed release date leading one to suspect that they're probably planning a similar situation with the PS4 to PS5 transition.
One IP, sales and mindshare bonuses (tons of awards, hype) for 2, possibly 3 console generations. That seems like a pretty big deal to me.
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Horsemama1956
Member
Sony has no where near the software tech MS has which is more comparable to Google. MS this entire generation appears to be looking at competing with Google, Amazon, Apple and even Netflix and Facebook in the near future(I do think one of these companies will buy Sony’s game division).
Dabaus
Banned
This is sort of off topic but its relevant to conversation. I have to wonder how much Xbox's budget has increased and if its a permanent thing or temporary? Are we talking 2-3 billions dollars or 10 plus? I also wonder what sonys is. I have to wonder if next gen sony comes out the gate and MS are looking down the barrel of another 2:1 gap if they pull the plug or they double down again. Its strange to me that only company that's best generation has come from dumb luck because their competition was dicking off for most of it are willing to spend so much money.
Kenpachii
Member
``````````
Markets overlap each other because it digs into the same money pool, entertainment and specifically games.
If you can't seem to see that offering all console games on the xbox towards PC is going to effect for a lot of people the reason to own a xbox when they have gaming PC's. Then i dunno what to say. I am mainly a PC gamer and frankly i do buy consoles if i want to play there exclusive games like i did with the switch. If they offered it me on a PC shop i would not have bought the console that was needed to play the game. So yes that market does exist. And i wouldn't be shocked if that market was massive.
Console market is shrinking, yet gaming market is growing. Guess they do like to play there games somewhere else.
Markets overlap each other because it digs into the same money pool, entertainment and specifically games.
If you can't seem to see that offering all console games on the xbox towards PC is going to effect for a lot of people the reason to own a xbox when they have gaming PC's. Then i dunno what to say. I am mainly a PC gamer and frankly i do buy consoles if i want to play there exclusive games like i did with the switch. If they offered it me on a PC shop i would not have bought the console that was needed to play the game. So yes that market does exist. And i wouldn't be shocked if that market was massive.
Console market is shrinking, yet gaming market is growing. Guess they do like to play there games somewhere else.
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Afro Republican
Banned
For the entire life of the Xbox brand people have been saying it would have significant overlap with PC and over a decade later i'm still waiting to see it happen.
It's just not going to be a thing. Microsoft sees this which is why they don't mind throwing games on the windows store. Most PC gamers don't even have a decent PC to run games like Forza Horizon 3.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Awesome, so you were unable to actually address my point. Exclusives are a factor yes, but not as much as some want to portray them as which was exactly my point. The fanatics often try and negate the power of the casual/mainstream gamer. This I believe is what many often refer to as the derogatory term fanboy, as they are the one's who desperately try and focus mostly in that key area on the forums.
There you go. With a snap of the finger you can lose basically half of your entire install base and it has little to do with your 1st party studio output. Nintendo has lost more than half before multiple times and regained it back, Microsoft has lost probably half this generation and they too can bring it back.
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Shmunter
Member
I would debate exclusives are a prime factor in attracting an audience. Whether it’s a story scoop in a news outlet, or a talk show getting an exclusive interview with a movie star. It is THE point of difference.
Subsequent to that, exclusivity has a inherent Halo effect. E.g. David Letterman becomes known for having exclusive interviews, and therefore snowballs his audience.
Of course the exclusive needs to be of value. Having something exclusive that has no value is valueless. This fits in to this definition of exclusive : “catering for or available to only a few, select customers; high class and expensive.”
Platform holders know this all to well, Microsoft for whatever reason had a brain freeze and forgot the power of exclusivity for a period.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Nintendo has never forgotten the power of exclusives, yet have been all over the map as far as their effect. They have done far worse than Microsoft in 2 generations and neither of which did Microsoft have better all around output of 1st party software. This just goes to show where on the list that exclusives matter to the mainstream public. It is and will always be the fanatical gamer who will overemphasize the importance of exclusives because that is what they want to be identified with instead of just playing the fucking games. Do you see Playstation fanboys on this site talking to fellow Xbox fanboys what they think of Red Dead Redemption 2 or Fallout 76? No, they want the center of the universe to discuss exclusives. Why my plastic box is better than your plastic box. That's where forums live and die and this site id becoming more and more a fanatical environment, not a gaming discussion board.
Look around, this is supposed to be about what's next for Xbox. How many here are doing that, talking about what the possibilities of the hardware or the games we might see or how these new studios will flourish? Yup, same old same old.
Shmunter
Member
Certainly having exclusives does not make you impervious to other external factors. Nintendo’s innovation in hardware plays a part also, and seemingly it is hit and miss scenario for the mindshare. But conversely I would argue Nintendo continues to exist solely due to their exclusives, certainly not because of 3rd party support I’m sure you’ll agree.
When it comes down to Microsoft and Sony, the point of differentiation is down to the software available on the platforms. Microsoft attempted hardware differentiation and failed with Kinect. So what is the remaining playing field? It’s the software. Sony’s VR can be omitted as a neiche - for now.
I’m not quite aware of this overbearing war going on between the fans. Fans will be fans, as long as they conduct themselves with respect for others I don’t see why that would be an issue. Perhaps taker an inner look Incase you are projecting your personal allegiance onto others, certainly not saying that you are - just general advice to us all.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Ahh, so you just choose to ignore it.
This is how we should conduct ourselves?
As I said, Nintendo has fallen the hardest at times and they have always had a steady flow of 1st party output. Sony lost half their install base with the PS3, did the quality of their 1st party drop drastically? No, which is why other factors can and will play a larger role than exclusives. I am not mitigating the importance of exclusives, they are proven to help sell a product, what I am saying is there are other things to consider first. So with that Microsoft is poised to do better next generation is they can strike a much better balance. Price, hardware appeal, services, exclusives, good positive PR/marketing, etc.
The last couple of Xbox systems have been very well crafted and sleek looking so I don't think that will be a concern. Pricing may be a huge factor, not sure what they will do but it certainly isn't going to be above $499 for an entry system. I think they will have multiple choices. One might even be less than $299, a streaming next gen Xbox. They are building their 1st party, that's the big checklist they have been trying to work on with these new studios. They are getting good PR now and Spencer and his team are doing great things to build momentum like BC and Game Pass, along with other positive imaging with console crossplay. That's not to say this generation is over. The next Gears and Crackdown 3 is coming next year. Plus the hundreds of other third party titles so it's not going to die off like the WiiU did.
To me it's all about timing and price and a lot of that has to do with Sony and the PS5. Them pulling out of PSX and E3 next year might be a ploy to get Microsoft to release some hard facts early or Sony may strike sooner than we expect. Either way I see much better competition coming and that is what everyone (aside from the fanboys of course) should want.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I'd say when it comes to PS, its strength isn't game quality.... and definitely never for the first few years of launch. Its branding is extremely strong since Sony is a global entertainment brand and it did so well with PS1 it's carried over that loyalty to now.
PS systems have always been reasonably priced too. Except for PS3 launch, which had terrible sales for probably the first two years. So it shows even the brand can only do so much. When PS3 Slim came out for $300, sales skyrocketed.
So it shows when competing systems are pretty close in price, Sony does great. When a Sony system like $600 PS3 is sold, sales tank.
To show that branding and loyalty are much more important:
Dreamcast failed miserably. It was $199, had tons of great games, had a built in modem (a new idea at the time for consoles), standard analog controller and it sold lousy. Gamers preferred to wait 2 years for PS2 because PS1 did so well and Sega was goofy around with hardware for 10 years pissing people off. And even the first few years of PS2 games weren't anything great either. Anyone following gaming also knew these launch games weren't great as mags did previews and import reviews, yet people still waited for it and PS2 was $299 too. PS brand strength overcame whatever great stuff Sega had with DC.
But it only goes so far as too high a price can overshadow branding:
PS3/360 era. 360 releases good games at a cheaper price. 360 got great traction. PS3 caught up at the end (like 8 years later) to surpass 360 by maybe 1 million units. Sony traction didn come through till they did Slim at half price. So in this case, the brand strength failed when price was too high. If PS3 and 360 were the same price right away I am positive PS3 would have blown away 360 those first few years.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Xbox Scarlett is....
AlexxKidd
Member
Louis playing the "look at all these plebs" victim again.
Speaking of choosing to ignore, you chose to ignore your comments to Three that led to him hoisting you on your own petard, and thus me making my post. In fact he hoisted you so hard on your own petard you never responded to him. Yet you cherry pick my comment out context knowing that your own words led to me making it.
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
One of the biggest xbox detractors chimes in.
TheUndeadGamer
Member
*Sigh* Can't we just go back to the topic at hand, please? 
TLZ
Banned
Well, I care about exclusives for all consoles. It is what makes them more valuable to me.
So I guess I'm a fanboy of all consoles. I'll take that.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Red Ring of Death was a big contributor to those numbers.
Also, MS had a one year head start and people were more than willing to spend less money on a 360 than buy a 500-600 PS3 console. So the PS lost the gamers and gained them back. Only way MS has sales figures even close to Sony is if Sony screws up again.
The Xbox is not as popular as the Playstation and when PS5 sales better than the Scarlett, people are STILL going to blame what happened in 2013 for what's going to happen next generation.
betrayal
Banned
Right now almost everything is pure speculation and marketing. Microsoft will have a hard time to regain some ground they've lost during the last generation. There biggest problem is not their tech, but their mouth. Lots of missed opportunities, false marketing and straight up lies were the lowlights during the last few years.
PocoJoe
Banned
I can state that you talk 99% bullshit, and it is more correct than your 99% fifa shit.
Either you are a troll or just simple minded fanboy because you cant talk with facts.
It is 100% lying to say that 99% bought ps4 for fifa etc. I know 40+ people that bought it on launch:
Zero got it for fifa etc.
Most/all got it because:
1: PlayStation is seen as console with quality&variety of games
2: playstation = gaming in many countries
3: xbox offers shit and worse controller with higher price
4: 360 RROD issues
5: xbox "exclusives" arent as interesting as sonys
6: long history of having good games after first year
7: xbox is seen as fifa/cod/halo machine while playstation is seen as all rounder
8: friends on ps network
It is stupid to assume that if fifa/cod etc fills top 10 = exclusives wont matter.
If game A sells 100m(like gta v) does it mean that when game B sells 10m, it doesnt matter? No. It just means that some games sell year after year.
Some play only cod/fifa etc
Some play only exclusives/singleplayers
Some play both
Playstation has both = both groups enjoy
Ps. I got it on launch because of exclusives in the future + killzone + it is just better as gaming device
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So many people in here with an all or nothing attitude. Some posters thinking that exclusives are ALL that matters are just as bad as the ones claiming that they don't matter at all. The poeple stating that brand recognition doesn't matter are just as bad as the people stating that the PS5 would sell even if it literally had no games. Ridiculous!
Exclusives matter. How much they matter depends on several factors. An exclusive like the State of Decay franchise doesn't matter near as much as Halo. Some exclusives eclipse others over time as well. We've seen Forza Horizon unseat Forza Motorsport for Xbox. TLOU is currently in the process of unseating Uncharted. It's not beyond belief to think that one console could have the better exclusives one gen, and the scenario swap the next.
It's awfully rare for one brand to stay on top for long these days. I think the console market has longer legs than most because generations last so long, but that doesn't mean that any of the consoles can't catch fire next gen. We've seen MySpace dethroned by fb. These days my kids hardly use fb, because they're all about Instagram. We've seen movement of the masses from Nokia to Razor phones. Razor phones to blackberries. Blackberries to Iphones. Now Apple is losing its ass because they aren't selling as many Iphones as they projected.
That's not to say that brand recognition doesn't matter. The Playstation brand is a strong one within gaming. To be honest, all three are. The simple truth is that none of us really know what's going to happen next gen. The more someone speaks with certainty on the matter, the dumber they look. There's simply too many variables involved. Will any of MS aquired studios make a hit game? We don't know. Will Sony going all in on VR at the expense of other investments pay off? We don't know. Is the Switch a gimmick ala the wii, or is it the real deal that can continue for generations to come? We don't know.
It's fun to speculate, but there are a lot of "facts" being thrown around in here that aren't really indicative of anything.
Exclusives matter. How much they matter depends on several factors. An exclusive like the State of Decay franchise doesn't matter near as much as Halo. Some exclusives eclipse others over time as well. We've seen Forza Horizon unseat Forza Motorsport for Xbox. TLOU is currently in the process of unseating Uncharted. It's not beyond belief to think that one console could have the better exclusives one gen, and the scenario swap the next.
It's awfully rare for one brand to stay on top for long these days. I think the console market has longer legs than most because generations last so long, but that doesn't mean that any of the consoles can't catch fire next gen. We've seen MySpace dethroned by fb. These days my kids hardly use fb, because they're all about Instagram. We've seen movement of the masses from Nokia to Razor phones. Razor phones to blackberries. Blackberries to Iphones. Now Apple is losing its ass because they aren't selling as many Iphones as they projected.
That's not to say that brand recognition doesn't matter. The Playstation brand is a strong one within gaming. To be honest, all three are. The simple truth is that none of us really know what's going to happen next gen. The more someone speaks with certainty on the matter, the dumber they look. There's simply too many variables involved. Will any of MS aquired studios make a hit game? We don't know. Will Sony going all in on VR at the expense of other investments pay off? We don't know. Is the Switch a gimmick ala the wii, or is it the real deal that can continue for generations to come? We don't know.
It's fun to speculate, but there are a lot of "facts" being thrown around in here that aren't really indicative of anything.
CeeJay
Member
I can't take anything you say seriously when you say something like the bolded comment. you may prefer the DS4 but its clear that the majority of gamers worldwide prefer the Xbox One asymmetrical layout. Can you explain why vast majority of controller manufacturers across every device tend to copy the Xbox layout. Sony went with the placement of the symmetrical sticks originally because the D pad was the primary control method and took the optimal spot on the pad. They stuck with that design and it became their flavour ever since. The asymmetrical layout is the default goto standard for a reason.
CeeJay
Member
That's a good balanced and unbiased view which is pretty rare in this thread. I think that you are absolutely correct with what you say. I think that having any single company as the runaway leader is not a great thing and it's been shown time and time again that having multiple healthy competitors means that ultimately it's the customer that wins. I want to see Xbox step up next gen and want to see a good close sales battle between them and PlayStation. Regardless of whether you're a PS fan, an Xbox fan or enjoy both equally you should be happy that next gen is shaping up to be much more competitive because it means that we all win. I don't understand those blind fanboy attitudes that one must win a decisive victory over the other to validate their console choice when all that happens with that outcome is stagnation in innovation. Look at last gen where MS, Sony and Nintendo all did really well and we had arguably the best one yet. The amount of choice in quality games and innovation across all the consoles last gen was impressive and I want to see that again.
Thiagosc777
Member
Consoles are selling more than ever.
Have you ever played games on the PC? Speaking as a ex PC gamer, the PC crowd is made of hardware enthusiasts. Every time you boot a game there's a little ritual where you mess with the settings, trying to get the most FPS with the best possible graphical settings. Sometimes games are just bad console ports, and you have to fiddle with mods and whatnot in order to make them run properly (see Mandaloregaming Dead Space review, for example). Or sometimes, the games are just too old and it is hard to get them to run. It's time consuming and requires some technical knowledge.
Console gamers just want to play games. They don't want to spend a couple of hours trying to get the game to run properly. Many lack the technical knowledge to do anything if a game crashes.
There's no overlap whatsoever. Those are two different groups of consumers with completely different expectations and needs. That's why PlayAnywhere only adds to MS business, by bringing in more players, and it doesn't hurt Xbox at all. The people who play those games on the PC would have never bought an Xbox in the first place.
Claiming that somehow PC gaming is going to overtake console is not only ridiculous, but it just as dumb as claiming mobile gaming wil overtake everything else and we will all be playing F2P microtransaction mobile shit in the future.
Thiagosc777
Member
*Sigh* Can't we just go back to the topic at hand, please?
This thread should be locked.
PS Now is not more expensive. Playstation Now is $79 for a year.
https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/IP9101-NPIA90010_01-PSNOWSUB12MO0000
Offers 680+ games. 300+ PS4 native game downloads. PS3 games. Streaming to laptop and PCs.
Game pass is around $120 per year.
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-pass
It offers 240+ XB1 native game downloads.
I'm not sure what gave you the impression that gamepass is cheaper but I assume it's the crazy hype and marketing for gamepass here or the fact that Now also offers a streaming service too.
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