Darlingcognito
Member
It seems like you've got about 5 different things mixed up to come up with tripe like this.
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Xbox Series X constrained by 'must also work on Xbox One' decree
- Thread starter Matt_Fox
- Start date
It seems like you've got about 5 different things mixed up to come up with tripe like this.
Monkeygourmet
Banned
Only ‘one’ year...
It’s just not a very good start is it?
It doesn’t spark confidence that they are ‘ready’.
It’s just not a very good start is it?
It doesn’t spark confidence that they are ‘ready’.
demigod
Member
The new CPUs are the same just faster/stronger.
There’s no physics thing a new CPU can do that the old CPUs can’t.
We see games like control with advanced physics working on those jaguar cores just fine.
It takes almost the entire overhead of power from X1 level to high end parts just to get to 4K 60fps with RT. Next gen consoles existing won’t change that. So scaling that back to sub1080p 30fps will give devs the leeway they need to get those jaguar cores to work.
Unless a dev decides to max out graphics and logic at 1080p 30fps on next gen consoles, which I highly doubt, then they should be able downscale just fine.
Fbh
Member
I'm not sure if they have clarified it but the exact quote (according gamesindustry.biz) is:
"As our content comes out over the next year, two years, all of our games, sort of like PC, will play up and down that family of devices," Booty said. "We want to make sure that if someone invests in Xbox between now and [Series X] that they feel that they made a good investment and that we're committed to them with content."
Nothing about the wording sounds like he is talking about the moment the Series X launches. When it's January and you say "over the next year" it's generally implied you are talking about 2020, not 2021. If anything it sounds like he said "over the next year", realized the console launches in like November and then corrected himself "next 2 years"
Vawn
Banned
It's funny how the only ones who are never bothered by practices like this are the die-hard Xbox-fanboys
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Cyberpunk 2077 is already struggling at 1080P 30FPS if those rumors are true and Cyberpunk looks good but it's not the most graphically demanding game
And are you serious in thinking that the newer CPUs won't do better physics and destruction?
TBiddy
Member
Why on earth would anyone be bothered that 2-3 games are arriving both on XSX and the older consoles? If you don't like it, don't buy the games or the console. It's that simple.
It's the whole concern trolling that's really annoying. Paints a rather poor image of the ones doing it.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
So far I've seen a verified developer at the other place say it will effect game design and Digital Foundry whom I trust.
When you think about it it's actually common sense. What if a game is built around a SSD and it's not just used for faster loading
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demigod
Member
I'll bet you that there won't be a 30% power difference. Which bet you wanna do? Console bet, Avatar bet, 1 month ban bet, 1 year ban bet. LET ME KNOW!!!
And Next gen level Hardware will struggle to play it at 4K 60fps with RT, maybe, hopefully, by the end of the Gen we can get a game with the scope of Cyberpunk and the physics of Control, and by then the old consoles will no longer be supported.
Journey
Banned
You mean just like MS ran games at 900p on Xbox One instead of 1080p and no one noticed, amirite?
Journey
Banned
What if there's a 29.99% difference, or a 30.0001% difference? how do we handle this bet? How about this be, there WILL be a power difference and I predict Xbox Series X will be more powerful than PS5. Want to take that bet? Stakes of your choosing.
demigod
Member
You keep claiming this 30% power difference but when pressed about it, you really don't believe what you want to believe. In other words, you don't practice what you preach. It's ok to chicken out, believing a 30% power difference when insiders said they will be close is just DUMB.
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thelastword
Banned
These guys should concentrate on making Cyberpunk 4k 60fps on next gen consoles...….XBOX ONE held back PS4 with lots of parite games in 2013, XBOX ONE could barely do games properly at the end of this gen, look at Soul Calibur and many games and many recent games and see how much they had to dial things down......Now you are telling me XBOX ONE will hold back next gen too...…..This is insane......and people are touting this as a winning strategy? This is madness, I want to see what these consoles can do, not be held back......Funny enough, the same people who see nothing wrong here are also the same persons who say Godfall is not impressive, when 4k 60fps with RT and crazy physics alone will be mighty impressive tech for next gen, especially against a 720p 30fps with dips Cyberpunk on XBONES with dialed down graphics, similar to Mordor on the 360....
Slings and Arrows
Banned
It is new.
No console has ever launched without games that only work on that system.
It makes no odds to me as i'll be playing them for free on my X via gamepass, but no, we've never seen a console without games that only work on that system.
thelastword
Banned
What you posted is not far off what some people believe in here when it comes to scaling
Pong scales pretty nicely too at 32k 1000fps, should be a massive difference on the higher end systems.....Ai, physics, design all scale up, the world is leaving breathing and gets bigger more sophisticated, "if you have better hardware"...…...XBOX series X will deploy a paradigm shift in game development across a gamut of hardware.....
So when the last thread said "XBOX is going to revolutionize gaming", perhaps that's what they meant and saw coming...…...We do not deserve thee "Oh Phil", perhaps we just have not fully conceptualized the complexity and undertaking that MS is embarking on relative to "scalability"......It will be a gamechanger, that I assure you.....
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
How would we have survived without Knack and Shadowfall?
Kumomeme
Member
nah cyberpunk already suffered
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Cyberpunk is a current gen game.
ethomaz
Banned
Now imagine a next-gen game...
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I'm confident Microsoft has a strong solution in place to allow for wide scalability. CDPR has never been good at making games run on anything but the highest end hardware
Rightisright
Banned
Hellblade 2 says things wont be held back on XSX.
FriedCarbonyte
Member
Kumomeme
Member
Yes. Even current gen game are suffered, how about a proper next gen game gonna fare?
DeltaPolarBear
Member
By that argument, why not make Scarlet games run on Xbox One forever? Why does Microsoft only keep the cross gen for one year out of the projected seven?
If it is that harmless, if it had no effect on Scarlet game's quality, then why make Scarlet exclusives at all?
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Don't be daft. Of course there will be phasing out of older hardware. I also fully expect more frequent releases of new hardware. Two or maybe three years between hardware upgrades with a rolling range of supported devices for new games. Consoles are PC's now, no getting around that fact. So moving to a more PC like upgrade cycle along with game scaling is the logical path forward.
Let's face it, this current gen has gone on way too long with underpowered hardware. Why would you want that business model to continue? For me it was frustrating as hell and I praise MS for making this move. This is not going to hurt console gaming, it's going to help keep it at the cutting edge.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
You haven't explained WHY Xbox should phase out old hardware. Surely if everything Xbox supporters claimed believe is true, then it is perfectly fine for Xbox Scarlet 1st party games to be compatable with Xbox One for 7 years, instead of just one year. I fail to see the difference here.
Unless they actually do believe there are actual compromises? Is there or isn't there?
I am in the camp that "scaling down" is a bunch of lies. That Microsoft is making excuses because their Scarlet games are 1 year late. But I think most people know my position at this point.
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
They said 1-2 years, not until the end of time. Why are you trying to argue against a position no one is taking?
DeltaPolarBear
Member
1-2 years has a built in implication that they can't keep doing it. And my argument is that if they can't do it for 7 years, then they shouldn't do it for 1 year either, for the same reasons.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Many PC games will not run on a core i3 or core i5 (4 cores not HT)... No matter what you do to the details, and how good the video card is, and this does not only affect recent titles, Far Cry 3 would just not work on my i3 3100 (paired with decent hardware around it), Same with some (eg.: Battlefield 5) newer games are a suddery mess even on the 4 cores i5s that are out there.
There is a point where downscaling makes no sense, otherwise we would still have games down-ported to the PS2 without any meaningful sacrifice.... If you disable physics, ennemy counts, A.I. "intelligense" to make the work on the older hardware it's not the same game anymore, the portion that affects gameplay is not in the performance (graphics) options for PCs.
But they do for many people too.... about half the games I play are Sony made PlayStation exclusives. But I don't want to overstate it, the PS4 was winning before its high quality exclusive content started to roll out.On the other hand the Switch would be another Ouya if it did not have exclusive games, I mean, why else would anyone buy such a device if it was not to play Nintendo games that they can't get on better hardware.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Why do we keep getting these on the spectrum level threads....
Barakov
Gold Member
The whole "All the games we release for the next two years of the XSX's life will also work across the entire XB1 family of systems" is nice PR but it's probably going to be disastrous in execution. I still think if you release a new system you release new games that only work on that system. The reason it works so well is because it gets people to buy the new box you put out. I'm glad MS started putting their games on PC but it gives me a good reason not to buy the XSX.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
I agree with all of that, which is why MS seems only intending to support cross-gen scaling between the next-gen and X/S/XBO for the first year or so, including this year (some people are forgetting the comment was made at E3 2019). And I don't think (rather, I HOPE) neither system is coming anywhere near maxing out their potential with their launch games or first-year games.
That said, yeah you're right that at some point the downscaling required would make it a completely different game, but that's probably not going to be too large an issue until a while later, by which time they'll probably drop the cross-gen support anyway. If by some chance they're still doing this, say, two or three years from now, then it gives prev-gen owners all the more reason to upgrade (though I don't think it'll get to that point because MS would be wasting funds on doing the downports in the first place).
All that said, I still think their best option for cross-gen support is just to do it via stream and with GamePass, and stagger it out between Xbox players first, then PC players, then 3rd-party supported devices later, and keep native versions to XSX only. Do a PC physical/digital release a couple years later with all the DLC and bonus content included and new graphics features, and an XSX physical/digital re-release of the same. Seems like the ideal way to handle cross-gen and multi-platform support while still pushing perceived value to the XSX.
And if Sony were to push PS Now and support of their games on other devices too, I'd hope they'd do the same approach, that way they don't devalue the PS5.
Kumomeme
Member
no matter how good microsoft's scalability is, but hardware doesnt change...for example jaguar wont magically suddenly able to run game designed on stronger cpu at first place..no matter great the software wizard is, still wont change hardware limitation
its not simply as "adjust the slider" like pc game...programmer task not that simple..not just reduce/turn of setting and resolution..how about geometry side? like character polygon etc....that graphical side..this gen we had less cpu side leap due to weak jaguar....much leap on visual gpu side..thats why even switch could somehow run witcher 3 "just turn down the setting" but next gen will be different..there AI,physic, object destruction, object per screen etc aspect and there faster storage leap (ssd) too that lead game had bigger world, faster loading, no more hide loading behind cutscene or tight area sequence trick that will change how the game designed at first place but how they gonna pull this on slower hdd?
middle earth shadow of mordor on xbox 360 is good example..look how the nemesis system get capped compared to xbox one/ps4 version..what if next gen game had great A.I, object destruction (ms advertise crackdown object destruction through cloud instead of running realtime on xb1 is for a reason ) etc..how it gonna fare on xbox one or even ps4...is this gonna be repeat of shadow of mordor? and even star citizen perform horrible without ssd
its not simply as "adjust the slider" like pc game...programmer task not that simple..not just reduce/turn of setting and resolution..how about geometry side? like character polygon etc....that graphical side..this gen we had less cpu side leap due to weak jaguar....much leap on visual gpu side..thats why even switch could somehow run witcher 3 "just turn down the setting" but next gen will be different..there AI,physic, object destruction, object per screen etc aspect and there faster storage leap (ssd) too that lead game had bigger world, faster loading, no more hide loading behind cutscene or tight area sequence trick that will change how the game designed at first place but how they gonna pull this on slower hdd?
middle earth shadow of mordor on xbox 360 is good example..look how the nemesis system get capped compared to xbox one/ps4 version..what if next gen game had great A.I, object destruction (ms advertise crackdown object destruction through cloud instead of running realtime on xb1 is for a reason ) etc..how it gonna fare on xbox one or even ps4...is this gonna be repeat of shadow of mordor? and even star citizen perform horrible without ssd
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NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Are folks in this thread new to gaming and have forgotten so quickly how long crossgen titles persisted in the move from the 360/PS3 to the One/PS4?
It wasn’t the end of the world then and it’s not the end of the world now.
RELAX.
It wasn’t the end of the world then and it’s not the end of the world now.
RELAX.
Kumomeme
Member
from what i see, its not about sony fanboy or ms fanboy...but people generally had concern that xbox one or even ps4 will held out next gen game...with new generation, people will have massive expectation and the devs will have higher ceiling for next 5-7 years of console cycle..they didnt want they future experience get handicapped due to weaker console...game will be developed to be able run on minimum baseline..which is in this case xbox one..thats why there devs concern regarding lockhart..also dont forget, more sku to optimized for, more crunch for developers...and downscale is harder dan upscale
its not about who left behind..its about the hardware sooner or later will eventually obselete and people will eventually move on
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bitbydeath
Member
Scaling is pretty awesome you guys.
Xbox One S
Xbox Series X
And that’s still in the early stages.
Xbox One S
Xbox Series X
And that’s still in the early stages.
ZywyPL
Banned
Exactly. People see their TV popping up 1080p or 2160p input on the screen and that's all they need. Truth be told, without DF no one would be able to count the pixels, and no one except a bunch of fanboys cares - if they were really that into resolution and framerate, they wouldn't get the consoles in the first place. And even DF is already having a hard time doing the pixel count, as the CBR techniques advance further and further.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
Slings and Arrows
Banned
It's not going to hurt console gaming but it will hurt Microsoft.
I have an X, i'm an Xbox fan, why would I buy an XSX? I won't. i'll wait 2-3 years for the pro version and buy the XSX-X.
Next gen consoles won't just make games look better, they have the power to add new AI, better physics and destruction. A dev will not add physics and AI in to a next-gen game when the current gen consoles can't handle it.
I don't want prettier versions of current gen games, mainly because this generation has been the most stale generation in terms of innovation, possibly ever?
I hope i'm wrong, but the sales figures for the XSX are going to be in the toilet and Microsoft can only lay the blame on this decision.
Though in a way, i'm happy. I'll keep my X and Gamepass and buy a PS5, with the money I had saved for the XSX, i'll upgrade my PC
LOL. This doesn’t make any sense. Do you really think LAUNCH GAMES or games within the first Year of the console will have anything like this? NO. 100% NO.
so, your Argument is invalid and doesn’t make any sense.
also, PS5 exclusive Games will also be in PC, so why bother getting a PS5 anyway?
Slings and Arrows
Banned
100% No for launch games or games within the first year? Go back and play infamous second son on the PS4 or Ryse on the Xbone. Neither of those games would run on the PS3 or 360 respectively.
Do you have a source from Sony that all PS5 exclusives will be available on the PC at the same time they launch on the PS5?
Rightisright
Banned
So with MS they also are making PC versions of their games at the same time they are making the console. They are coding the games to take advantage of not only Zen CPU but Intel as well. They are also coding the games for AMD GPUs, and Nvidia GPUs, all which take a decent level of optimization. Same will go for the consoles.
Ninja Theory has shown off two games in Hellblade and Mara. Looking at what they have shown, it doesn't look like they have been gimped at all.
I can understand the worry about fast moving open world games that will require an SSD maybe not being pushed to the max, but honestly how many do you think there will be of these in the first 18 months?
I just don't think it will be an issue.
If those games will be release holiday 2021 then it won’t be released on Xbox one anyway. They said only the first year of console launch. Holiday 2021 is after 12 months
thelastword
Banned
A new gen is not all about gameplay, it's about advancing the graphics medium, better framerates, better Ai and physics......Some of the graphical features I saw in Shadowfall, I've never seen in a COD all gen long...….The whole point of a new gen is start a new slate on, set the bar higher for graphics and gameplay...….This gen we were somewhat hindered by the Jaguar CPU, but next gen we are not, having games developed around 8c/16t desktop CPUs, fast SSD's and insanely fast GPU's with raytracing and 3D audio is even more important......Developers will accomplish things we simply could not this gen, not only graphically, but framerate-wise, gameplay design, level design, seamless open worlds, Ai, Physics...….
Next gen is packing so much revolutionary hardware, it is no time to be held back by a 1.31 TF GPU...….Think of it for a moment, I said 1.31TF, that's only the GPU, but next gen we're looking at 12TF or more, with RT and 3D audio, an insanely fast CPU, for AI and physics, so it's not just the GPU, if we are trying to cater for a 1.31TF Jaguar CPU, with no RT, it immediately means you are already constraining your ambition on the title in all ways, not just for the GPU but for the CPU as well,,,,,
Hellblade was a sub 4k video running at 24fps, it's not gameplay and Death Stranding is more impressive anyway.....If Hellblade is the bar next gen, it's really not a high bar...……...I'm pretty sure you will see that in the coming months......
MS cut things out pretty early lke they usually do, for OG XBOX and 360, Xbox 360 owners were already left behind since 2009, when MS was preparing for Kinect, in 2010 it was all about Kinect and trying to push that......OG XBOX was cut off pretty early too......I very much doubt any Sony fan was concerned, but were just making arguments why/how XBOX's taper off really badly every generation...…..Just look at how many exclusives PS4 is getting in it's last year, last 10 months before PS5 arrives, a tonne, so that was the argument there...…..PS4 owners are going out on a high......That's how you do it, how can they complain....they've had 7 years of great software....
Now, I don't want ND, PD, Santa Monica, Guerilla to be constrained by 1.84TF and a Jaguar CPU, they've worked the teats out of those and produced the best looking games in the industry...….I want to see what they will produce at 12+TF and a really powerful CPU. A new gen is a new benchmark for development and a new spec to work from, it's exactly what it has always been......
TBiddy
Member
Wait what. So now Death Stranding is more impressive than the pre-rendered trailer for Hellblade 2? What the fuck.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
It basically comes down to, 3rd party can do whatever they want, 1st party games will have larger teams and more money to make it work on both consoles. Nothing is being held back at all...