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[Segata Sanshiro]

It's kind of depressing to see so many people bailing out without even seeing any of XSEED's translation. Give them a freaking chance here.

I know there are tons of Working Designs fans here (I have many of their releases myself), but XSEED is not Working Designs and I don't think it's fair to write them off for not emulating another company.

Besides the one Wild ARMs 4 incident and some wacky sales expectations for Retro Game Challenge, I think XSEED has been pretty solid.

Can we let them try to put there own spin on the game without so much vitriol? Let's save some judgment until after the product is actually released.

That's just the thing, though. They didn't have to emulate - they were offered the real thing.

But sure, let's wait and see. I'm sure whatever they have is better than WD Lunar plus the original voices plus a punching puppet for Ghaleon to duel with. Why I bet they'll even sell more than 15k copies!

 

[Hours Left]

That's just the thing, though. They didn't have to emulate - they were offered the real thing.

But sure, let's wait and see. I'm sure whatever they have is better than WD Lunar plus the original voices plus a punching puppet for Ghaleon to duel with. Why I bet they'll even sell more than 15k copies!

For everyone wants the "real" thing, they should just play the WD version.

This is not a port, it's a remake. We don't know how the (non-anime) cut scenes are going to be staged, or if the original script would even gel with how the game flows.

The whole point of this is for a new take on the game. Can people just give the game a chance to stand on it's own without constant comparison to a completely different version of the game?

 

[Macstorm]

GAF, never disappointing with your pessimism. And a big :lol at anyone that was serious about the punching puppets.

 

[Dreamwriter]

For everyone wants the "real" thing, they should just play the WD version.

This is not a port, it's a remake. We don't know how the (non-anime) cut scenes are going to be staged, or if the original script would even gel with how the game flows.

Which is why Vic Ireland wanted to work with them and even get what original vocal cast members they could get. The thing is, the reason the game is a classic was in large part due to its translation. Getting rid of the reason a classic was a classic, is just not a smart way to remake a classic. If they want it to "stand on its own", then they shouldn't call it "Lunar".

 

[duckroll]

It's kind of depressing to see so many people bailing out without even seeing any of XSEED's translation. Give them a freaking chance here.

Well, that's looking at it from a "we are all interested in the remake itself" point of view here. That would indeed be depressing if people were looking forward to a remake of Lunar, but decide not to give it a chance because it's not WD's translation.

But I don't think that's the case here. For myself, and most of the people saying this, I'm sure the reason simpler. I have no real interest in a Lunar remake. I don't think the remake looks that great, and I certainly don't think the game needs another remake. But, if for some reason, it somehow reunites Lunar with Vic Ireland, and has some if not all of the original voice cast returning, then I would be interested in it for that alone.

 

[Macstorm]

This thread is full of some of the most narrow-minded statements I've ever heard.

Edit: Not directed at duckroll, as his statement is at least rational.

 

[outunderthestars]

still buying it, but am sad that it won't be Vic's translation.

:ff to ebay to buy a ps1 version::

 

[Hours Left]

If they want it to "stand on its own", then they shouldn't call it "Lunar".

Working Designs did not create Lunar, so I'm not really sure what you mean by this. The series has a life outside it's English releases, and this remake was not commissioned strictly for the US audience.

 

[duckroll]

For the record, I'm not "angry" that XSEED is doing their own translation. I fully expected it. I'm just saying that if they HAD gone the other route, they could potentially have made a sale with someone like me.

On the other hand, I -am- mad that XSEED is not doing RGC2, because I bought RGC1! :lol

 

[Hours Left]

On the other hand, I -am- mad that XSEED is not doing RGC2, because I bought RGC1! :lol

Word on that. If there is anything to be upset with XSEED about, it's this.

 

[outunderthestars]

For the record, I'm not "angry" that XSEED is doing their own translation. I fully expected it. I'm just saying that if they HAD gone the other route, they could potentially have made a sale with someone like me.

On the other hand, I -am- mad that XSEED is not doing RGC2, because I bought RGC1! :lol

RGC? what game is this?

 

[duckroll]

RGC? what game is this?

http://www.retrogamechallenge.com/

 

[Fuu]

RGC? what game is this?

Retro Game Challenge.

edit: beaten by a milisecond.

To make this post less useless: I've never played Lunar and I'm interested in this release. After this thread I got very curious about WD's translation though.

 

[Macstorm]

Should really be mad at everyone else that DIDN'T buy RGC1, because it's not like XSEED doesn't want to do RGC2, I imagine they just don't like losing money.

Also, it's easy for Victor Ireland to come in and claim that he offered this and offered that, but I'd love to hear all the reasons why he was turned away. If he was willing to do all of this help for free out of the kindness of his heart, that would be one thing, but I somehow doubt that was the case. The world tends to come back to a couple of things: money and control. But I'm sure these didn't play a part.

 

[RurouniZel]

RGC? what game is this?

Retro Game Challenge 2

 

[vireland]

Also, it's easy for Victor Ireland to come in and claim that he offered this and offered that, but I'd love to hear all the reasons why he was turned away.

Well, you're not going to get that. I'm not interested in badmouthing XSEED about this deal. Their work will stand or fall on its own merit, and that time will come soon enough. I've said about all that I intend to say to basically correct misinformation some have posted - that's it, end of story.

 

[duckroll]

Should really be mad at everyone else that DIDN'T buy RGC1, because it's not like XSEED doesn't want to do RGC2, I imagine they just don't like losing money.

Based on what they have said AFTER the release of RGC about how the game would have to have sold 100k or more for them to bother doing the sequel, I will imagine that yes, they simply don't want to do RGC2.

 

[Hobbun]

I am holding my judgement for the game until I can at least hear how good (or bad) of a job XSeed will do.

And Victor, I want to say thank you for all the work and care you and your team in WD put into the Lunar games, Arc the Lad and your other projects. It was definitely noticed from this person. Both Lunar games still rank among my favorite all time RPGs.

 

[Hours Left]

Based on what they have said AFTER the release of RGC about how the game would have to have sold 100k or more for them to bother doing the sequel, I will imagine that yes, they simply don't want to do RGC2.

Based solely on word of mouth, no less. The gave us a nearly impossible mandate so they can pass the buck.

 

[Eric C]

Also, it's easy for Victor Ireland to come in and claim that he offered this and offered that, but I'd love to hear all the reasons why he was turned away. If he was willing to do all of this help for free out of the kindness of his heart, that would be one thing, but I somehow doubt that was the case. The world tends to come back to a couple of things: money and control. But I'm sure these didn't play a part.

But that doesn't really matter to me as a fan. I'd still be disappointed with changing the voice actors and a new translation, even if Vic said nothing.

I already have 3 English versions of this game, and the GBA version without Vic was disappointing. I know Ubisoft ≠ XSEED. But so far XSEED hasn't given me a reason to want it yet.

 

[Cheerilee]

Also, it's easy for Victor Ireland to come in and claim that he offered this and offered that, but I'd love to hear all the reasons why he was turned away. If he was willing to do all of this help for free out of the kindness of his heart, that would be one thing, but I somehow doubt that was the case. The world tends to come back to a couple of things: money and control. But I'm sure these didn't play a part.

XseeD and WD/Gaijinworks have the same job. XseeD was apparently tempted to let Vic take over and do their work for them in this instance, and Vic was willing to do it. But in the end it was XseeD's call and they decided against it. They don't need to justify that with some sort of mudslinging. It would've been neat if they went with Vic, but they didn't. It's a compliment to Vic that they even considered going that route.

Nobody has to be the bad guy here. (Not unless/until XseeD screws it up, but the same would be true if they had hired Vic.)

 

[Hero]

I don't really care about them retranslating it or not, but what the fuck, turning down the Alex puppet?

That's unforgivable.

 

[charlequin]

But I don't think that's the case here. For myself, and most of the people saying this, I'm sure the reason simpler. I have no real interest in a Lunar remake. I don't think the remake looks that great, and I certainly don't think the game needs another remake. But, if for some reason, it somehow reunites Lunar with Vic Ireland, and has some if not all of the original voice cast returning, then I would be interested in it for that alone.

Precisely. There's already a great remake of Lunar already: it's called Silver Star Story Complete. When this remake was announced, I thought it was an unnecessary and pointless project, but the idea that Vic and the original cast might be involved made it potentially interesting. Now XSEED's crappy decision means I'm not interested again.

 

[Tellaerin]

But that doesn't really matter to me as a fan. I'd still be disappointed with changing the voice actors and a new translation, even if Vic said nothing.

And that seems to sum up the attitudes of most of the people complaining about the translation sight unseen. It doesn't matter how good the final product will be, if it's not 'their Lunar' (meaning a copypaste of the WD script), then it's automatically worthless.

I already have 3 English versions of this game, and the GBA version without Vic was disappointing. I know Ubisoft ≠ XSEED. But so far XSEED hasn't given me a reason to want it yet.

Personally, I like the direction XSEED claims to be taking the localization. Aiming to preserve the charm of the WD version while hewing a little more faithfully to the original Japanese script seems like an admirable goal to me. It's a shame so-called Lunar fans are already dismissing it out of hand.

 

[ethelred]

It's a shame so-called Lunar fans are already dismissing it out of hand.

"So-called Lunar fans." :lol

 

[Tellaerin]

"So-called Lunar fans." :lol

Did I say something funny?

These people complaining (and I notice you're one of them) don't seem to be fans of the story, the characters, or the gameplay. You're so caught up in WD's particular take on the translation that you can't seem to allow for the possibility of someone rendering the script into english with the same charm. What you're fans of is Working Designs Lunar, not Lunar.

 

[duckroll]

Did I say something funny?

These people complaining (and I notice you're one of them) don't seem to be fans of the story, the characters, or the gameplay. You're so caught up in WD's particular take on the translation that you can't seem to allow for the possibility of someone rendering the script into english with the same charm. What you're fans of is Working Designs Lunar, not Lunar.

What if the reality is that there aren't many "real" Lunar fans, and that most of the people who really like Lunar, liked it BECAUSE of what Working Designs did with it? Food for thought!

 

[Shouta]

Did I say something funny?

These people complaining (and I notice you're one of them) don't seem to be fans of the story, the characters, or the gameplay. You're so caught up in WD's particular take on the translation that you can't seem to allow for the possibility of someone rendering the script into english with the same charm. What you're fans of is Working Designs Lunar, not Lunar.

Lunar is ho-hum without WD, it's really not any different from a lot of other generic RPGs that came out in Japan (so it even getting a sequel was wild). WD basically made Lunar into the experience everyone fondly remembers. I guarantee that if wasn't WD but someone else that had not done Lunar so long ago, it'd be long forgotten.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Seriously. Working Designs' Lunar SSSC is THE reason I'm a gamer. #1. I bought a PS1 to play it.

Look, new sprites and voices and shit, whatever. But they're deliberately making the game more boring by making the script closer to the original. The worst offense is turning down bonuses. Is that how they make their own spin on things? Taking away the awesome package?

 

[Tellaerin]

What if the reality is that there aren't many "real" Lunar fans, and that most of the people who really like Lunar, liked it BECAUSE of what Working Designs did with it? Food for thought!

Most people have no way to really judge what Working Designs did with the localization, outside of the really obvious jokes they shoehorned in, because no one's released a more faithfully-translated version of the game with a decent English script yet. That sounds like what XSEED's shooting for.

I like the premise and the characters and the world. It's a sweet story. I think there's a charm there that's independent of WD's localization job, and I'm looking forward to seeing what someone else can do with the material.

 

[ethelred]

Did I say something funny?

Indeed you did! You said something ridiculously and absurdly funny, in fact, so much so that I had to express my laughter at the comment even though I had told myself I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore.

These people complaining (and I notice you're one of them)...

Oh heavens to Betsy! I've had the temerity to complain! Outrages upon indignities!

... don't seem to be fans of the story, the characters...

I'm quite a fan of the story and the characters that were introduced to me in the game well over a decade ago. I'd say the writing is a pretty big element there -- the writing is, actually, the biggest thing that defined the story and the characters for me and made them so memorable and great. Oh, and the voice acting. That was also pretty defining for the characters. The writing and voice acting were integral elements of the story and characters, so yes, I'd say I was a fan.

... or the gameplay.

Not a huge fan of the gameplay, that's true. I've said that specifically. I think it was pretty good, but not mindblowingly great or anything like that. Lunar: The Silver Star never would've become the classic that it is fondly remembered as today based only on its gameplay. I can't imagine anyone arguing this point to the contrary.

You're so caught up in WD's particular take on the translation...

Because it's the translation that made me a fan of the game.

... that you can't seem to allow for the possibility of someone rendering the script into english with the same charm.

It won't be done with the same charm. It might be done with charm, but it won't be the same. For some people, that'll be a great thing -- though I wager that's a fairly small group. For other people, it'll be an unacceptable thing. For others still, it'll be something warranting a wait-and-see approach. Me? Well, we'll see.

What you're fans of is Working Designs Lunar, not Lunar.

Because the game that Working Designs released is Lunar. It's the Lunar I fell in love with, at any rate, and that is Lunar, for me. Do you want to get into a philosophical debate here? Get all existential up in here with us? "What is the true nature of Lunar? Am I a man dreaming I'm a fan of Lunar? Or is Lunar dreaming me?" Or maybe you'd like to take us on a romp down Locke's socks or the Ship of Theseus to help us better understand what Lunar truly is? Maybe Lunar is a metaphorical concept, not really a true thing at all -- it's just an ideal, like love or beauty that means different things to different people! Yeah, that's the ticket. Lunar is in the eye of the beholder.

Or maybe you're just dumb for suggesting that people who have been fans of a game for ten, eleven, twelve odd years, who most likely bought the POS Sega CD system for these games alone, who called Gamestop or Funcoland or Babbage's every day for five months straight as the game was met with continual delays from its promised release date when the time came for the remake aren't actually fans of the game.

I'm a fan of Lunar, but as I've noted, the writing and voice acting (along with the music) were the two biggest reasons why. I'm also a huge fan of, say, Ristar, but for entirely different reasons -- in that case, I'm a fan because of the gameplay. If someone did a remake of Ristar that removed or altered the one major component of which I was a fan (the gameplay) -- if they, say, turned it into a football simulator instead but still called it "Ristar" -- I would not be so much a fan of that.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Temerity is fun to say.

 

[duckroll]

I like the premise and the characters and the world. It's a sweet story. I think there's a charm there that's independent of WD's localization job, and I'm looking forward to seeing what someone else can do with the material.

I would be looking forward to seeing what someone else can do with the material if this was say, Lunar 3. Seeing how it's not, and it's the same game, and the third remake of the game as it is, I just don't care honestly.

 

[Augemitbutter]

i'm ready to give the new translation a chance. some of the old WD charm mixed with new influences sounds good enough to me. there is always room to bitch after the game has been released

or.......if it doesn't sell enough to justify a Lunar EB remake. that would be disastrous!

 

[Kodiak]

all my nostalgia for the game is tied up in the magic WD brought to it.

No interest.

 

[Tellaerin]

Lunar is ho-hum without WD, it's really not any different from a lot of other generic RPGs that came out in Japan (so it even getting a sequel was wild). WD basically made Lunar into the experience everyone fondly remembers. I guarantee that if wasn't WD but someone else that had not done Lunar so long ago, it'd be long forgotten.

I tend to trust your opinion on these things, Shouta. You're one of the people here whose RPG tastes line up with mine a lot of the time. Still, the fact that Vic's not contributing to the localization effort doesn't automatically damn the remake to a charmless, leaden script, which is what a lot of people here seem to be assuming.

I guess what's bothering me is how people are taking it as a given that no one else besides WD can possibly do the source material justice.

 

[zoku88]

I actually don't remember anything special about the script off the top of my mind :lol

 

[artilect]

I was never a fan of Working Design's butchery of games but the WD/Lunar fans have a point, the only reason this game was memorable was the translation.

I think that XSeed is making an extremely poor business choice not catering to an already established fan base that knows exactly what they want. Whether the non-WD/Lunar fans will buy it is irrelevant, they would be losing more customers than they would be gaining. The PSP is a small market in the US and die-hard fans will let their money do the talking.

That aside, I don't really care about this game either way but I have about 10 friends that will probably refuse to buy it because it doesn't have a Vic Ireland script.

 

[Shouta]

I tend to trust your opinion on these things, Shouta. You're one of the people here whose RPG tastes line up with mine a lot of the time. Still, the fact that Vic's not contributing to the localization effort doesn't automatically damn the remake to a charmless, leaden script, which is what a lot of people here seem to be assuming.

I guess what's bothering me is how people are taking it as a given that no one else besides WD can possibly do the source material justice.

It's not Vic not working on it that has a lot of folks down on it, it's more so working the game from scratch rather than using an excellent base to improve it even further. That's my particular beef and what a lot of folks dislike. There's still room for improvement in the WD version of the game but working from scratch means you have to at least meet the same level WD achieved before you can surpass it and that's a tall order especially because it's Lunar.

 

[Hours Left]

It's not Vic not working on it that has a lot of folks down on it, it's more so working the game from scratch rather than using an excellent base to improve it even further. That's my particular beef and what a lot of folks dislike. There's still room for improvement in the WD version of the game but working from scratch means you have to at least meet the same level WD achieved before you can surpass it and that's a tall order especially because it's Lunar.

Well, according to the interview RPGamer posted today, they will be using the WD script as a base.

The question we hear most often is about Lunar's translation. We know that you're doing your own, so how are you handling it? Is it more of a direct Japanese translation or did you get to add some Working Design's style tongue-in-cheek humor to it?

Ken Berry, Director of Publishing at XSEED Games: That was definitely a difficult decision for us since we knew there was a fanbase that was passionate about Working Design's great localization work, while others wanted to see something that didn't take as many liberties from the original Japanese text. In the end I think we found the right compromise in having the English text be a combination of Working Design's text and some areas that we retranslated to be more consistent with the Japanese source material.

 

[duckroll]

I guess what's bothering me is how people are taking it as a given that no one else besides WD can possibly do the source material justice.

Then you misunderstand. What we're saying has nothing to do with doing the source material justice. What we're saying is that the source material isn't worth most people's time, and WD made it something worth giving a shit about.

Well, according to the interview RPGamer posted today, they will be using the WD script as a base.

Is that even legal?

 

[Hero]

We still need the name of the anime that gif was from.

 

[vireland]

Is that even legal?

Yes. Remember, most of the US LUNAR stuff was sold back to Game Arts after the run in the US. They were only missing a few things if the remake was 100% the same game. If there was stuff added, then there're the issues of original actors and new writing to match the tone of the original.

The crazy thing is that we sold that stuff back to Game Arts so the Ubi version could move forward (which we passed on), and Ubi had full rights and opportunity to pick and choose from our materials. They didn't, and it was tragic.

 

[CO_Andy]

GhaleonEB's site has a nice list of the differences between what a normal translation would be versus Vic's. Can't say i agree with everything the man did (but what he did add at the end of the original CD version was truly epic).

SPOILERS AHOY! Don't read if you future fans don't want your experience deluded.

 

[duckroll]

Yes. Remember, most of the US LUNAR stuff was sold back to Game Arts after the run in the US. They were only missing a few things if the remake was 100% the same game. If there was stuff added, then there're the issues of original actors and new writing to match the tone of the original.

The crazy thing is that we sold that stuff back to Game Arts so the Ubi version could move forward (which we passed on), and Ubi had full rights and opportunity to pick and choose from our materials. They didn't, and it was tragic.

Ah, so the material was sold back to Game Arts when you relinquished the US rights. That makes sense. Too bad Ubi never did anything with it though.

 

[vireland]

Ah, so the material was sold back to Game Arts when you relinquished the US rights.

But it wasn't 100% clean. There were outstanding minor rights that didn't go with the deal. Still, we did it in the interests of having a good relationship with Game Arts and helping what was shaping up to be a sad Ubi version by getting out of the way because we loved the LUNAR brand. Back then, didn't help one bit, though.

 

[charlequin]

These people complaining (and I notice you're one of them) don't seem to be fans of the story, the characters, or the gameplay.

The gameplay of Lunar SSC is okay, though it's not nearly as good as EB. The plotline isn't really that amazing. I think everyone is big fans of the characters, though -- which is why they want to see them translated with the personalities they remember intact, and (especially in the case of Ghaleon) voiced appropriately.

Most people have no way to really judge what Working Designs did with the localization, outside of the really obvious jokes they shoehorned in, because no one's released a more faithfully-translated version of the game with a decent English script yet.

Actually, plenty of people had an opportunity to play the GBA version. Hint: it's total fucking garbage.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

Ken Berry, Director of Publishing at XSEED Games: That was definitely a difficult decision for us since we knew there was a fanbase that was passionate about Working Design's great localization work, while others wanted to see something that didn't take as many liberties from the original Japanese text. In the end I think we found the right compromise in having the English text be a combination of Working Design's text and some areas that we retranslated to be more consistent with the Japanese source material.

I'm stunned how many people are upset by the idea of a translation that is more faithful to the original game. I'm all for freedom of choice and can understand why people who grew up on the Working Designs version would want to pass on the game, but a faithful translation in and of itself is never a bad thing. It can be executed badly, to be sure, but saying Working Designs or bust is flat out selfish.

 

[duckroll]

I'm stunned how many people are upset by the idea of a translation that is more faithful to the original game. I'm all for freedom of choice and can understand why people who grew up on the Working Designs version would want to pass on the game, but a faithful translation in and of itself is never a bad thing. It can be executed badly, to be sure, but saying Working Designs or bust is flat out selfish.

Of course it is selfish, it's OUR money. Gaming isn't a charity, it's a business. People are stating what they want, if there's a huge RPG fanbase in the US which has never played the original versions and welcome this with open arms, then XSEED will make bank, and more power to them. If on the other hand, there aren't really that many people interested in this at all, and those who have played the original versions WD put out don't want to buy this, then well too bad for XSEED.

It has nothing to be it being a good or a bad thing, it's just that we're expressing why we don't care for this. If there are more people who still care about this release than those of us who don't, then XSEED is free to ignore our opinions and it's all fine. That's really all that matters in the end isn't it? Whether the game sells.

 

[Shouta]

Well, according to the interview RPGamer posted today, they will be using the WD script as a base.

Much better. Now, gimme Ghaleon and keep Sasuke out of my Lunar and I'll be happy to give it a go.