Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
You claim it is a fact, but facts tend to use empirical evidence to back up those claims. So could we get some receipts on how gamers are becoming "more and more stupid" since it is "a fact" according to you?
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You May Lose the License to Play DRM Protected Games Tied to an Account if You Breach the Agreed ToS for That Service, Includes "Offensive Language".
- Thread starter Mahadev
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You claim it is a fact, but facts tend to use empirical evidence to back up those claims. So could we get some receipts on how gamers are becoming "more and more stupid" since it is "a fact" according to you?
Its not gamers its the whole world.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
I don't think that is the case. I believe it is more of an issue that the media propogating/highlighting the stupid and social networking sites like Twitter/Facebook are providing platforms for the stupid to congregate and boost their voice. Going by my personal experience, I found that most people are chill, semi-intelligent folk who don't care for politics or offending others and just want to enjoy their lives.
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
Reported
Deputy Moonman
Member
Typical gaf going into extreme overreactions. We have no idea how this will be implemented and i imagine this would be geared more toward bullying/harrassment and toxic speak. Also you can be sure its not going to be a case where simple swearing gets all of your stuff taken away. Instead it would have to be repeated cases of extreme incidents where repeated warnings and temporary bans have already been used.
CRAIG667
Member
I'm speaking totally hypothetically, but you have some twisted conservative view point... The parent is to blame and nothing should happen to the guy shouting racially offensive slurs? honestly? Get real mate!
CRAIG667
Member
Also assuming that kids only play kids games is dumb but to insinuate that adults only play games for designed for adults only is just stupid....
You heard of Lego Star Wars etc, thousands of adults and kids play together in those games.
There isn't some magic barrier where people are only talking offensively in games rated as adult only.
DavidGzz
Member
Exactly. He must not have kids. People are insanely mean for no reason, even on Roblox.
radewagon
Member
It would be interesting to see this play out in court. Hopefully, someone is able to successfully sue MS after getting their account suspended and their property/balance seized. If more and more property is going to be tied to digital accounts, there's going to have to be a huge shift in how our legal system handles such property. I fully accept that MS has the right to ban a user from their services (though that process needs to be more transparent and subject to review by lawyers if need be), but they absolutely should not have the right to steal your property (or even revoke your licences).
Seriously, if this happens to you, please lawyer up.
The Scrivener
Member
The fucking fucker's fucking fucked.
CRAIG667
Member
Exactly, Roblox is actually my 2 kids favourite game, now as soon as I hear someone talking over live I just ask them to turn the sound off.
Sounds mean but not even a fraction as mean as some of things I've heard being said over live for absolutely no reason.
I'm glad that MS have given themselves more power to tackle abusers.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I for one look forward to the day when we are all living in the Equilibrium movie. Certain muppets seem to be cheering on that bleak future too, like it’s a good thing.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
They have always had the right to ban you, it is after all their services. NeoGaf also has a right to ban you. What they should be doing is going after repeat offenders.
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Cranberrys
Member
It is stupid, at most you block their capability to communicate with other players, removing their game library is straigh up wrong, it's basically stealing, you paid for the game, you get to fucking play it. Get a thick skin will you, online game has always been a cesspool, you know what happened? 13 years went by, and you grew the fuck up, so now you look at the past and it seemed so much better, it wasn't.
You shoulnd't tolerate it, block them and move the fuck on, I'm sick of all this political correctness, oh you can't say this, oh you can't say that. And I'm not saying those people are in the right, there are a lot of assholes on games and online in general, but pretending that justifies Microsoft behaviour is stupid, its another way for them to control what you do and to justify seing everything you do,write and say. Online games should always be rated 18, and if someone insults you or your family wtv, you need to be a fucking grown up and ignore it, because if someone insulting you online makes you lose your shit like this I have no idea how you handle real life confrontation.
TLR: Grow up, block them if you don't like what they say. Stop giving them excuses to control people just because it doesn't affect you (Yet)
Well, it was better.
I remember playing Halo 2 and PGR 2 online back in the day with very nice people that I met randomly on gaming forums. And I'm not saying it's not happening anymore. Recently, I met two really nice guys via the clubs and they helped me boost some coop achievements on AC Unity. It's just that it doesn't happen very often these days.
In real life, I don't have confrontations because I choose the people I interact with. I don't interact with random people that I don't know. I'm not going in a random coffee shop to ask a random guy if he wants to go see a movie with me :
Furthermore I don't think MS will ban someone just because he swears.
And I ignore them. I write about this issue on this specific topic, I'm not saying that I lay awake every night thinking about online gaming
It's just sad that Something as fun at its core as gaming has become such a serious thing with such tensions. Nowadays, it seems that everybody is bitching about everything. So, yeah, maybe you are right, maybe I'm just getting old, but on the other hand, I also think that if I'm feeling this way now, it's because Something has indeed changed.
ilfait
Member
Agree with you, but I say split the servers up. You have an area where people say what they're going to say--this one is completely self-moderated; block people if you want to block them, but no outside intervention. And then you have the other area that Microsoft can police till their sweet heart's content. The concept of taking away what people fairly paid for because there's a legal stipulation that nobody actually reads--that should only be meant to prevent people from illegally sharing copyrighted material and cheating--or denying the access to a semi-monopolistic service for people who have socially and maybe monetarily invested in it is ridiculous.It is stupid, at most you block their capability to communicate with other players, removing their game library is straigh up wrong, it's basically stealing, you paid for the game, you get to fucking play it. Get a thick skin will you, online game has always been a cesspool, you know what happened? 13 years went by, and you grew the fuck up, so now you look at the past and it seemed so much better, it wasn't.
You shoulnd't tolerate it, block them and move the fuck on, I'm sick of all this political correctness, oh you can't say this, oh you can't say that. And I'm not saying those people are in the right, there are a lot of assholes on games and online in general, but pretending that justifies Microsoft behaviour is stupid, its another way for them to control what you do and to justify seing everything you do,write and say. Online games should always be rated 18, and if someone insults you or your family wtv, you need to be a fucking grown up and ignore it, because if someone insulting you online makes you lose your shit like this I have no idea how you handle real life confrontation.
TL
Inessential corporations seem to have far too many protections and sometimes even subsidies, and far too many people excuse their actions with "it's capitalism; it's the free market", or "private companies can do what they like".
When an entity whose primary purpose is profit becomes ubiquitous enough and powerful enough special restraints need to be in place that wouldn't apply to an individual, and to some extent I'm sure there are; but in some ways it appears to me that this is even reversed, with huge businesses and their management given more freedom than the individual, with less repercussions for behaviour that's destructive to people and the planet. Although this monitoring-the-language-of-users practice is ridiculous, I'm not saying that MS is generally out of control (I don't follow business news or politics unless it's shoved in my face) and these thoughts are tangential to the thread, but civilized societies wouldn't let a wildfire burn through a city or allow a certain species to over-populate and ravage the ecosystem if it were within their power to prevent it.
DavidGzz
Member
I do think people are jumping the gun on their reactions to this. They are not going to take banning you lightly, they may do a 24 hour ban from Live without reviewing the report but I'm sure that before they take a game license away or whatever, they will listen to the recording or read the text message and deem it revoke worthy or give you a slap on the wrist.
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BANGS
Banned
Personal responsibility, or lack thereof...
If this is true, I'm sure glad I don't play xbox anymore. I can't support such nonsense...
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ilfait
Member
Even if what you're saying perfectly depicts reality it isn't very comforting.
A blocking function is sufficient. Revoking access to the servers should be limited to cheaters, because that's something that's out of the control of users. There's no block button for someone who's killing you through a wall.
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gunslikewhoa
Member
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I'm totally with you on that topic.
E.g. that is why I don't use a headset for voice-chat or something like that. There is always somebody who's cursing the hell out of the chat ...
MilkyJoe
Member
I'm not OK for the taking people's digital purchases, but if kids are playing SoT or something and they get called cunts or racial slurs, then tough shit if you get banned
From Onlineplay yes. And no one is arguing about this. But here we are talking about everything Microsoft related which is insane. Also what does offensive language even mean? Cunt in Europe is basically idiot/asshole. So I am not even allowed to say that anymore?
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Just look at the "shitstorms" that over the years. There are shitstorms because of everything now, and those things that deserve such things go down because shitstorms are now the new normal.
But well, it would be good if the people that get "banned" are just banned from communications and not from their purchases.
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MilkyJoe
Member
Cunt in the UK is the worst swear word.
And if you have to ask what is offensive language it's best you don't say anything.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Well, it was better.
I remember playing Halo 2 and PGR 2 online back in the day with very nice people that I met randomly on gaming forums. And I'm not saying it's not happening anymore. Recently, I met two really nice guys via the clubs and they helped me boost some coop achievements on AC Unity. It's just that it doesn't happen very often these days.
In real life, I don't have confrontations because I choose the people I interact with. I don't interact with random people that I don't know. I'm not going in a random coffee shop to ask a random guy if he wants to go see a movie with me :
Furthermore I don't think MS will ban someone just because he swears.
And I ignore them. I write about this issue on this specific topic, I'm not saying that I lay awake every night thinking about online gaming
It's just sad that Something as fun at its core as gaming has become such a serious thing with such tensions. Nowadays, it seems that everybody is bitching about everything. So, yeah, maybe you are right, maybe I'm just getting old, but on the other hand, I also think that if I'm feeling this way now, it's because Something has indeed changed.
When Xbox Live started it was great. Playing MechAssault or Crimson Skies was spectacular and so many were just amazed we could actually talk to each other. Warhawk was like that too in the beginning on PSN. Now all online services are filled with manchildren and teens who like to blast their music. If someone swears to me it's not a big deal but the aggressive players that harass others or think hate speech is ok should be under the microscope. Sadly we still have many who think free speech allows them to do whatever they want.
Zog
Banned
We need consumer protections in this area.
ilfait
Member
I've been looking at this thing lately called myers-briggs personality types. I don't know if it's considered credible by mainstream psychology--it may be considered pseudo science; i don't know. But from my experience it does a pretty good job of generally being able to describe and categorize people I know based on their answers to a series of questions.
I looked at how each personality type relates to authority and order, according to myers-briggs descriptions, and noted the types that were most receptive to it. When I looked at the population distribution of the various types, the ones with authoritarian tendencies were at or near the top.
I think to some degree it's just in the nature of certain kinds of people to be totally fine with, or even desire, being told how to behave and to tell others how to behave. And, depressingly, I don't think they're the minority.
WTF is wrong with them? Born and bred that way.
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Louis Cyphre
Banned
Zog
Banned
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ilfait
Member
We're both probably fairly sensible people, but my standards aren't your standards.
RedVIper
Banned
Stop putting words in my mouth, I didn't say the person being racist shouldn't be punished in any way, I think removing the ability to play a game they pais for is the wrong way to go about it, remove the ability to communicate and that's it, problem solved.
Yes the parent is the one to blame, your responsible for your kid, you're responsible for all the media they interact with, it's choice to let your 10 year old watch a movie with sex scenes on it, it's your choice for your kids to watch violent television, it's your choice if your kid to play online games where there might be adult content. It's great that you play games with your kids, but I shouldn't refrain from swearing because you think that's not appropriate for your child (light example here).
I know kids play adult games, my point is, if your kids play games meant for adults, and played by other adults, you have no right to complain when some asshole online is, well, an asshole, it's your choice to let them play it, you deal with the consequences and stop telling other people how they should behave.
Now I'm gonna reiterate(In case you decide to acuse me of defending the assholes again), that I don't think people should be racists, sexist, wtv. But if you know these people exist and you decide to expose your kids to them anyway it's your fault. These people should have their communication blocked when they're reported on multiple occasions and that's it.
You're also gonna end up with a bunch of false positives, people are offended by everything, racist jokes can be funny, rape jokes can be funny, but there's always people that get offended by it.
Btw I love the "He ptobably doesn't have any kids", it's always a sign of a dumb argument.
Cranberrys
Member
Well, I'm 47 and a gamer since I was 13 years old, I'm online since 1997 and I can say with confidence that the several shitstorms this past few years are Something new. The reactions are totally disproportionate. Developpers like Bioware are litterally Under siege. Things like that never happened and certainly not to that extend some 10 years ago. Nobody threatened Tempest Software because of Excalibur 2555 A.D and it was truly an awful game. Something has changed and it's the same in the online area. Online gaming now and then is not the same at all. I I play 10 random games today with mic, I will meet at least one or two unpleasant people 8 times out of 10, and before, in the early days of Xbox Live, it was the other way around. And I think anyone who remembers this time will be able to confirm that.
Screw this nonsense about taking game licenses away. And uh, does anyone else remember how people who used the term slippery slopes would be mocked a couple years ago by the authoritarian left? Well here you go, another slope that the industry is sliding down at 80 mph, all to rid the world of that pesky offensive language. Allegedly say something that someone claims hurt their feelings, and you can lose access to hundreds or thousands of dollars in purchases. And if you don’t believe this isn’t a reaction to the authoritarian left and its constant demands to have their safe spaces, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
Enough is enough. Boycott any tech company that doesn’t value free speech above safe spaces. That doesn’t mean free for all or nothing. It means having the balls to tell the crybabies there is a feature called mute, block, etc., and if they really can’t handle online games without medication to control their triggerings, then perhaps they should try something new. Like care bear reruns.
Enough is enough. Boycott any tech company that doesn’t value free speech above safe spaces. That doesn’t mean free for all or nothing. It means having the balls to tell the crybabies there is a feature called mute, block, etc., and if they really can’t handle online games without medication to control their triggerings, then perhaps they should try something new. Like care bear reruns.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
I think most can come to a consensus of what in not tolerable. Sure some may think a simple swear word is a bannable offense (I don't) and that is why we are here but I am talking about extreme cases and repeat offenders. You simply cannot justify harassing others and hate speech. Especially on a service like Xbox Live.
Because Gaming got much bigger than it was in your childhood
Again it is the norm these days in every section of life.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
No it isn't. This is a highly ignorant statement and one that clearly shows that you know nothing of what you speak.
That isn't empirical evidence, that is personal experience - which is heavily biased and not indicative of it being "a fact" that was proclaimed. Been online gaming since Ultima's release in '97. I have had terrible experiences then and now, just as I have had excellent experiences then and now.
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ilfait
Member
I imagine there's in part a kind of Mickey-Mousing(tm) or Pixar-ing(tm) thing going on. An attempt to make your product as bland and inoffensive as possible in order to appeal to the most people as possible by offending the least amount of people as possible. Pleasant. Banal. Safe. Pedestrian. Mainstream. Profit.
DryvBy
Member
I don't ever cuss so I'm safe but boy, this is gonna be interesting. Censorship is just hitting everyone these days.
edit: Also, Phil: https://www.usgamer.net/articles/xboxs-phil-spencer-toxicity-is-a-threat-to-our-entire-industry-news
edit: Also, Phil: https://www.usgamer.net/articles/xboxs-phil-spencer-toxicity-is-a-threat-to-our-entire-industry-news
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Cranberrys
Member
Well, I never said I've got empirical evidence of anything. I used the term "facts" as a way of speaking. But the recent and various shitstorms and the simple fact that MS is making a move on this, tend to prove that Something has changed.
ilfait
Member
What is hate speech? What's extreme? What's harassment?
CRAIG667
Member
CRAIG667
Member
I don't know where to start with this but you Sir are a seriously misguided individual.
"stop telling other people how they should behave" ridiculous, we have rules all around us...
You know what, f*ck the rules, I'm gonna get drunk and drive the wrong direction on the motorway... yeh... Let's stop having rules.
TBiddy
Member
I don't know their intent, but basic business knowledge will tell anyone that Microsoft won't ban and take away your games, just because you say "fuck", "there's only 2 genders" or if you swear in an Excel-sheet. If you start threatening someone, you might be in trouble though.
I'm surprised at the responses in this thread, to be frank. What are people expecting? That Microsoft will start banning everyone and take their games away because they swear in a game? Come on.
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