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[RedVIper]

Well, I never said I've got empirical evidence of anything. I used the term "facts" as a way of speaking. But the recent and various shitstorms and the simple fact that MS is making a move on this, tend to prove that Something has changed.

It's proves gaming as achieved a diferent level of popularity and, with popularity, comes all the downsides other media's have, censorship for example.

 

[Dunki]

I don't know their intent, but basic business knowledge will tell anyone that Microsoft won't ban and take away your games, just because you say "fuck", "there's only 2 genders" or if you swear in an Excel-sheet. If you start threatening someone, you might be in trouble though.

I'm surprised at the responses in this thread, to be frank. What are people expecting? That Microsoft will start banning everyone and take their games away because they swear in a game? Come on.

But this is what they are saying and with a vague wording like offensive language it is up to interpretation of the person looking at the case. IF its even a person or some automatic bullshit like with YouTube.

 

[goldenpp72]

Never really sat well with me that a company can basically steal your purchases and digital currency. I doubt anyone will be banned for mere cuss words but the line not being drawn is in itself concerning.

I do think toxic behavior online needs to be addressed, just can't really say how. The most effective method would be to have actual people reviewing the offending behavior but I imagine that would be costly.

 

[ilfait]

I don't know where to start with this but you Sir are a seriously misguided individual.

"stop telling other people how they should behave" ridiculous, we have rules all around us...

You know what, f*ck the rules, I'm gonna get drunk and drive the wrong direction on the motorway... yeh... Let's stop having rules.

How many people die from hearing someone say cunt on xbox live? Where's the button I can press to stop drivers from crashing into me?

 

[ilfait]

Never really sat well with me that a company can basically steal your purchases and digital currency. I doubt anyone will be banned for mere cuss words but the line not being drawn is in itself concerning.

I do think toxic behavior online needs to be addressed, just can't really say how. The most effective method would be to have actual people reviewing the offending behavior but I imagine that would be costly.

Hell no.

 

[Cranberrys]

Because Gaming got much bigger than it was in your childhood

Again it is the norm these days in every section of life.

I think that's the very reason. When something comes out of the circle of its initiates to become mainstream, that's what happens. And when you get old, you become kind of nostalgic. The funny thing is I Iove games these days, I value immersion more than anything and games today are really immersive and I love it. But I miss the way the community was back then.

 

[MilkyJoe]

No it is not....





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt

Ha ha don't tell me what is and what isn't in my own country based off some nonsense on the Internet.

http://www.channel4.com/producers-h...r-18s-and-harm-and-offence/offensive-language

 

[TBiddy]

But this is what they are saying and with a vague wording like offensive language it is up to interpretation of the person looking at the case. IF its even a person or some automatic bullshit like with YouTube.

No, that is not what they are saying. They are saying, that they are reserving the right to remove you from their service. They aren't saying, that they will start banning left and right.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Well, I never said I've got empirical evidence of anything. I used the term "facts" as a way of speaking. But the recent and various shitstorms and the simple fact that MS is making a move on this, tend to prove that Something has changed.

Words have meaning. When you make a claim that something is "a fact", you should fully expect someone to ask for evidence to support your claim.

I don't know where to start with this but you Sir are a seriously misguided individual.

"stop telling other people how they should behave" ridiculous, we have rules all around us...

You know what, f*ck the rules, I'm gonna get drunk and drive the wrong direction on the motorway... yeh... Let's stop having rules.

Wow... this is the most idiotic statement I have read in a while. Are you seriously comparing the dangers of driving to someone saying a rude thing on the internet?

I don't know their intent, but basic business knowledge will tell anyone that Microsoft won't ban and take away your games, just because you say "fuck", "there's only 2 genders" or if you swear in an Excel-sheet. If you start threatening someone, you might be in trouble though.

I'm surprised at the responses in this thread, to be frank. What are people expecting? That Microsoft will start banning everyone and take their games away because they swear in a game? Come on.

We already have had evidence of companies, groups, and even governments misunderstanding the context of things that were said/done. Just look at the verdict for the Nazi-Dog joke.

 

[NickFire]

Well, I never said I've got empirical evidence of anything. I used the term "facts" as a way of speaking. But the recent and various shitstorms and the simple fact that MS is making a move on this, tend to prove that Something has changed.

The only thing that’s changed is 15 years ago we would have muted the shitheads or blocked them and carried on with our lives. Today a small segment of the population instead cries on social media about some real and some imagined speech offensives to no end, claiming that the world is going to hell because god forbid someon was a jerk online. And then keeps crying for attention, demands changes to pretend they have an actual life goal as an activist, and gets these companies to go along to prove how tolerant and virtuous they are. If these people had the basic life skills needed to just block these shitstains, nothing like this would ever be an issue.

 

[AnimalFather]

MSJW

 

[TBiddy]

We already have had evidence of companies, groups, and even governments misunderstanding the context of things that were said/done. Just look at the verdict for the Nazi-Dog joke.

That really has nothing to do with anything. Microsoft is still a business. It's poor business running around removing your customers, just like that. You really think Microsoft is going to take away your game collection, just because you write "fuck you" in a DM?

 

[RedVIper]

I don't know where to start with this but you Sir are a seriously misguided individual.

"stop telling other people how they should behave" ridiculous, we have rules all around us...

You know what, f*ck the rules, I'm gonna get drunk and drive the wrong direction on the motorway... yeh... Let's stop having rules.

You really like to pretend I said things that I obviously didn't, where did I say shouldn't have rules, I even said people who are toxic online should have their online communication blocked, that's a rule right there.

Not all rules are good, this has been proven time and time again, slavery was legal until not so long ago, this was a bad rule so it was changed, alcohol was illegal, people didn't agree with this rule so it was changed. If you decide to reply again, please do it in a way that makes any sense instead of being silly nonsense like what you posted above, tell me why removing someone's access to content they paid for is a better than simply blocking their way to offend other people.

 

[goldenpp72]

Hell no.

I mean, why? I can't go into an online game without hearing someone call women stupid bitches, racist comments or other offensive behavior. It's part of why I ceased playing online titles in the first place. I used to play online all the time, I stick to Smash and Splatoon because I can't hear the hate.

I'm a white guy and even I get the business, can't imagine being a lady and playing these games online. I'm either going to be hit on, white knighted or berated with horrific comments. People should all be able to partake online without feeling they will be hated. Very different then someone who gets offended because someone said fuck.

I say implement a system that can record actual voices and if the user is harassing, not just trash talking, ban them.

 

[ilfait]

We already have had evidence of companies, groups, and even governments misunderstanding the context of things that were said/done. Just look at the verdict for the Nazi-Dog joke.

I don't think it's an actual misunderstanding. I think it's a case of knowing perfectly well what the context is and they're going to arrest you anyway, and that's probably even worse.

 

[Zog]

I don't know their intent, but basic business knowledge will tell anyone that Microsoft won't ban and take away your games, just because you say "fuck", "there's only 2 genders" or if you swear in an Excel-sheet. If you start threatening someone, you might be in trouble though.

I'm surprised at the responses in this thread, to be frank. What are people expecting? That Microsoft will start banning everyone and take their games away because they swear in a game? Come on.

Offensive Language is purposely vague so it's anyone's guess what it is includes and it could change at any time because it's so vague.

 

[Dunki]

Ha ha don't tell me what is and what isn't in my own country based off some nonsense on the Internet.

http://www.channel4.com/producers-h...r-18s-and-harm-and-offence/offensive-language

Are we now comparing broadcasting regulations with normal public uses? Really? I know how its used today and I also do not care about the so called feminist perspective of it. I personally use it as a word for idiot or stupid person. So no do not tell me what I can use words for and for what not. Again being offended by words is something totally subjective so "offensive language" can mean anything.

Example: If you would call me feminist I would be offended by it but again that is only my own subjective opinion.

 

[ilfait]

I mean, why? I can't go into an online game without hearing someone call women stupid bitches, racist comments or other offensive behavior. It's part of why I ceased playing online titles in the first place. I used to play online all the time, I stick to Smash and Splatoon because I can't hear the hate.

I'm a white guy and even I get the business, can't imagine being a lady and playing these games online. I'm either going to be hit on, white knighted or berated with horrific comments. People should all be able to partake online without feeling they will be hated. Very different then someone who gets offended because someone said fuck.

I say implement a system that can record actual voices and if the user is harassing, not just trash talking, ban them.

Because I don't trust people to be fair or reasonable by my standards, and especially not the type of person likely to have that sort of job in the first place. If you could say, "alright, Dave Chapelle is gonna be moderating from now on, and if he decides to, he can ban you from this service," then I'd at least be willing to entertain the idea, but when you say "actual people" (aka the average humorless no-fun-allowed people) are going to check for offensive behaviour, I say hell no.

 

[RedVIper]

I mean, why? I can't go into an online game without hearing someone call women stupid bitches, racist comments or other offensive behavior. It's part of why I ceased playing online titles in the first place. I used to play online all the time, I stick to Smash and Splatoon because I can't hear the hate.

I'm a white guy and even I get the business, can't imagine being a lady and playing these games online. I'm either going to be hit on, white knighted or berated with horrific comments. People should all be able to partake online without feeling they will be hated. Very different then someone who gets offended because someone said fuck.

I say implement a system that can record actual voices and if the user is harassing, not just trash talking, ban them.

This is something that needs to be changed in society, not in gaming, censorship is not the way to go, just because your forbid people from being racist, doesn't mean they'll suddenly stop being racist.

On the recording voices I dislike that because I'm sick of the companies recording and cataloging everything you say and do, but that's another point entirely and not for this thread.

 

[goldenpp72]

Because I don't trust people to be fair by my standards, and especially not the type of person likely to have that sort of job in the first place. If you could say, "alright, Dave Chapelle is gonna be moderating from now on, and if he decides to, he can ban you from this service," then I'd at least be willing to entertain the idea, but when you say "actual people" (aka the average humorless no-fun allowed people) are going to check for offensive behaviour, I say hell no.

Then you make it a decision by a group, which is how moderation happens on websites. There is a clear line between harrassment and being gruff. Put it this way, people shouldn't act on COD in a way they wouldn't if they were in the same room. If you come up to someone and yell in their face you can expect a punch in the face, so treat people right or shut your mouth I say.

 

[BigBooper]

All they need is a system level voice chat control. If I only ever want to hear friends or noone at all, let me set that option. No reason to ban everyone.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Then you make it a decision by a group, which is how moderation happens on websites. There is a clear line between harrassment and being gruff. Put it this way, people shouldn't act on COD in a way they wouldn't if they were in the same room. If you come up to someone and yell in their face you can expect a punch in the face, so treat people right or shut your mouth I say.

You would think there is a "clear line" between the two, but as can be seen by the former moderation team that controlled GAF for a time - that line can be blurred and pushed.

 

[WaterAstro]

I think there should be no tolerance for hate speech, racism, sexism, stuff like that, particularly those that are directed at other players, but general profanity should be allowed. Spouting "aw shit" shouldn't be bannable, but spouting racial slurs should be bannable. We shouldn't be allowing people to be okay with that kind of language.

The punishment is also a bit too much. I would say maybe a freeze on their online capabilities, but maybe also not consume the time on their subscription, so if they get temp banned, their subscription freezes so they don't lose days. Just thinking of options on how to punish players without being anti-consumer. I guess most games make players forfeit their account, so maybe a bit of monetary punishment is justified.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I think there should be no tolerance for hate speech, racism, sexism, stuff like that, particularly those that are directed at other players, but general profanity should be allowed. Spouting "aw shit" shouldn't be bannable, but spouting racial slurs should be bannable. We shouldn't be allowing people to be okay with that kind of language.

The punishment is also a bit too much. I would say maybe a freeze on their online capabilities, but maybe also not consume the time on their subscription, so if they get temp banned, their subscription freezes so they don't lose days. Just thinking of options on how to punish players without being anti-consumer. I guess most games make players forfeit their account, so maybe a bit of monetary punishment is justified.

I believe that context is key. Many would claim that terms such as "nigga" are hatespeech, yet there are some who call each other this in jest during private conversations, but would never openly say this because they know it is wrong and offensive. The context here being a private conversation between two friends. So, what is stopping someone from Microsoft from failing to understand the context between the two and removing access to their accounts if some third party were to report one of them for any number of inane reasons (not being good at a game, failing to help a teammate, just to be dicks, etc)?

 

[ilfait]

Then you make it a decision by a group, which is how moderation happens on websites. There is a clear line between harrassment and being gruff. Put it this way, people shouldn't act on COD in a way they wouldn't if they were in the same room. If you come up to someone and yell in their face you can expect a punch in the face, so treat people right or shut your mouth I say.

Should online = offline? Each has its distinct qualities, and I think that's probably a good thing.

I used to play WC3 online, and I seriously hated most of the people I came across. They were abrasive, obnoxious, horrible assholes in my opinion. I'm not saying that I like typical gamer culture at all. I don't. But if WC3 just had a mute button (you had to stop what you were doing and type a command along with the user's name, which could have lowercase L's as I's etc.), I would have been perfectly content with that when I wasn't in the mood for banter. I realize that ideally in a team-based game you and your jolly band of comrades could all communicate with each other and strategize, which is why I said earlier in the thread that there should be two "areas"; one moderated, one not. But I'm completely fine with a mute button.

What I think is a terrible idea is forced moderation. It's never good, because it's hardly ever Chapelle; it's Resetera/Youtube/NeoGAF moderator #14, and he's a real boring piece of shit.

 

[NickFire]

You would think there is a "clear line" between the two, but as can be seen by the former moderation team that controlled GAF for a time - that line can be blurred and pushed.

That’s one example. How about the IRS? Caught red handed interjecting politics into reviews of non-profit applications. How about Twitter with their trust and safety council or whatever it’s called? Seems they care only about blatantly offensive words and right leaning wrong think. How about Facebook? Seems they sell data on everyone for years but will now make changes because they also sold data to republicans. How about google? They will edit search results when a favored politician comes up looking bad in them.

Simply put, we have all seen how this plays out. And giving a massive and ruthless company like MS a chance to make someone pay twice while waiving their virtue flag and getting cheered is a horrible idea.

 

[goldenpp72]

You would think there is a "clear line" between the two, but as can be seen by the former moderation team that controlled GAF for a time - that line can be blurred and pushed.

The issue with anything shouldn't be to silence opinions which is what the mod team here was doing. People don't go on XBL to have discussions though, this conversation we're having here will almost never take place there. The version on XBL would be me calling you a piece of shit while commenting on your mom's performance in bed. I shouldn't do that to your face or on here, so why is that allowed on XBL?

Most of us want to play games to have fun and release some stress, that shouldn't be met with people screaming at me and being immature jerks. No one on XBL is gonna be banned for saying they believe in God or are Republicans. At least I sure hope not. You have little kids and grown adults using voice chat as a means of hiding while expressing their idiotic hate, and that much needs to go. If it doesn't fly in real life it shouldn't fly online when it comes to our behavior.

 

[Dunki]

I think there should be no tolerance for hate speech, racism, sexism, stuff like that, particularly those that are directed at other players, but general profanity should be allowed. Spouting "aw shit" shouldn't be bannable, but spouting racial slurs should be bannable. We shouldn't be allowing people to be okay with that kind of language.

The punishment is also a bit too much. I would say maybe a freeze on their online capabilities, but maybe also not consume the time on their subscription, so if they get temp banned, their subscription freezes so they don't lose days. Just thinking of options on how to punish players without being anti-consumer. I guess most games make players forfeit their account, so maybe a bit of monetary punishment is justified.

The question again what is hate speech? racist language or even worse sexist language? Who is defining this? These terms are so subjective and vague that I had trouble to determine which is which.

If we get a swear catalog with all the forbidden words yeah ok. Even If I would argue against some words then you have a clear definition of this so called hateful language. But even this is impossible since language and the context of it evolves all the time. hell I once heard that the term ninja is racist against black people which is insane to me.

Also . if these words are forbidden trolls will use other means to offend they will change the context of different words. like for example the GG is not used by people to annoy the other one.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Are we now comparing broadcasting regulations with normal public uses? Really? I know how its used today and I also do not care about the so called feminist perspective of it. I personally use it as a word for idiot or stupid person. So no do not tell me what I can use words for and for what not. Again being offended by words is something totally subjective so "offensive language" can mean anything.

Example: If you would call me feminist I would be offended by it but again that is only my own subjective opinion.

Broadcasting regulations mirrors public decency and profanity. If you feel that the word cunt is acceptable then chances are you are not from the UK. If you are then that's a very different upbringing to most.

Restrictions on it's broadcast are not because of feminism.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Broadcasting regulations mirrors public decency and profanity. If you feel that the word cunt is acceptable then chances are you are not from the UK. If you are then that's a very different upbringing to most.

Restrictions on it's broadcast are not because of feminism.

A few things:

1. I am from the UK (though I currently reside in America).
2. Cunt is acceptable to say and is used quite often.
3. Broadcasting regulations most assuredly do NOT mirror public decency and profanity.

 

[Zog]

I think there should be no tolerance for hate speech, racism, sexism, stuff like that, particularly those that are directed at other players, but general profanity should be allowed. Spouting "aw shit" shouldn't be bannable, but spouting racial slurs should be bannable. We shouldn't be allowing people to be okay with that kind of language.

So you draw the line at general profanity but other people (like religious people) think general profanity is offensive. Why should only YOUR definition be used to decide what to censor?

You see where this is going, straight down the slippery slope.

 

[MilkyJoe]

A few things:

1. I am from the UK (though I currently reside in America).
2. Cunt is acceptable to say and is used quite often.
3. Broadcasting regulations most assuredly do NOT mirror public decency and profanity.

Anyone here from the UK knows this is bollocks, unless you originate from the finest of council estates.

 

[Dunki]

Broadcasting regulations mirrors public decency and profanity.

This is absolute bullshit. It never is and never was. Broadcasting regulations are very very safe regulations so that they will not trigger anyone. They do not represent public decency or profanity at all. And yes I am not from the UK but it does not change how this word is used in normal public.

 

[Dr. Claus]

The issue with anything shouldn't be to silence opinions which is what the mod team here was doing. People don't go on XBL to have discussions though, this conversation we're having here will almost never take place there. The version on XBL would be me calling you a piece of shit while commenting on your mom's performance in bed. I shouldn't do that to your face or on here, so why is that allowed on XBL?

Most of us want to play games to have fun and release some stress, that shouldn't be met with people screaming at me and being immature jerks. No one on XBL is gonna be banned for saying they believe in God or are Republicans. At least I sure hope not. You have little kids and grown adults using voice chat as a means of hiding while expressing their idiotic hate, and that much needs to go. If it doesn't fly in real life it shouldn't fly online when it comes to our behavior.

People do go on XBL to have conversations. Whether it be with friends, in the lobby, or in groups/clubs on the platform. This conversation has taken place on XBL and it only takes one poor moderator to find offense in something, fail to understand context, and cause someone to lose out on their paid services.

Anyone here from the UK knows this is bollocks, unless you originate from the finest of council estates.

I would argue that you are the one who has lived a bloody sheltered life and speaking absolute bollocks.

 

[RedVIper]

I'm glad there are some reasonable userswhere like zog and ilfait to balance out the ones that apparently want to have everything to be censorshiped.

 

[DryvBy]

I don't know their intent, but basic business knowledge will tell anyone that Microsoft won't ban and take away your games, just because you say "fuck", "there's only 2 genders" or if you swear in an Excel-sheet. If you start threatening someone, you might be in trouble though.

I'm surprised at the responses in this thread, to be frank. What are people expecting? That Microsoft will start banning everyone and take their games away because they swear in a game? Come on.

Didn't Google get in trouble for what I bolded?

Also, Microsoft already has banned people for threatening others.

 

[MilkyJoe]

This is absolute bullshit. It never is and never was. Broadcasting regulations are very very safe regulations so that they will not trigger anyone. They do not represent public decency or profanity at all. And yes I am not from the UK but it does not change how this word is used in normal public.

Are you seriously going to think you know what is and what isn't considered offensive in another country?

In my office the word fuck floats about like air, if a c-bomb is let go the silence is deafening. The bloody arrogance you are displaying here.

 

[Dunki]

Are you seriously going to think you know what is and what isn't considered offensive in another country?

In my office the word fuck floats about like air, if a c-bomb is let go the silence is deafening. The bloody arrogance you are displaying here.

Again....

Office language is different from street language and common language in public.... How do you not know these differences?

 

[MilkyJoe]

I would argue that you are the one who has lived a bloody sheltered life and speaking absolute bollocks.

I would argue a stint at finishing school would do you wonders, pinnochio.

 

[ilfait]

Again....

Office language is different from street language and common language in public.... How do you not know these differences?

He sleeps in the office ventilation shafts and scrabbles out in the morning once he starts hearing the "fuck"s fly.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Again....

Office language is different from street language and common language in public.... How do you not know these differences?

Probably for the same reason they are using childish retorts such as:

I would argue a stint at finishing school would do you wonders, pinnochio.

They have no interest in remaining civil or putting forth a valued debate. They know they are wrong and will continue to act as a petty child would.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Again....

Office language is different from street language and common language in public.... How do you not know these differences?

You think I'm looking down any less on you for using it in a public place instead of the office? Where you use it does not negate it's offensiveness as per original point.

 

[VertigoOA]

Public space? They monitor “private” conversations with friends. And it’s probably some automated bullshit that just screens for flagged words.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Probably for the same reason they are using childish retorts such as:



They have no interest in remaining civil or putting forth a valued debate. They know they are wrong and will continue to act as a petty child would.

You are telling porky pies, what's more to be said? I'm not sure why. You say cunt in front of your nan?

 

[ilfait]

Ceiling cat.

 

[Dunki]

You think I'm looking down any less on you for using it in a public place instead of the office? Where you use it does not negate it's offensiveness as per original point.

No I am saying that the words you use in public and in the office are different. For example I would never swear in a office but I swear with my friends etc.

 

[MilkyJoe]

No I am saying that the words you use in public and in the office are different. For example I would never swear in a office but I swear with my friends etc.

As does everyone, but as explained in the UK that is the word you don't say. And no matter what Grimsby says, God knows where he was brought up. Different words have different meanings or impact between countries, regardless of a common language. Example, bloke I used to know, reckoned himself a bit of a geezer would say "alright you cunts" when he walked into the pub, he wasn't threatening or anything but you could feel the cringe and disgust amongst the girls. See start of Shaun of the Dead. Some people say it but polite society frowns upon it. If you call someone a cunt during an alteration, you'd better be the bigger lad.

 

[Dunki]

As does everyone, but as explained in the UK that is the word you don't say. And no matter what Grimsby says, God knows where he was brought up. Different words have different meanings or impact between countries, regardless of a common language.

I am sorry but I have heard the word cunt hundreds of times in combination with British people. Be it comedy. Youtube videos, podcasts, people driving. Again. This is pretty subjectiv whats offensive to you or to me.

 

[Crew 511A]

This is one reason I still buy physical copies of games. That way I actually do own the games.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I am sorry but I have heard the word cunt hundreds of times in combination with British people. Be it comedy. Youtube videos, podcasts, people driving. Again. This is pretty subjectiv whats offensive to you or to me.

Because you are not British that's why it doesn't have the right shock value ergo the comedic timing. Again see Shaun of the Dead, or Alan Carr live calling a heckler out.

Sorry Jimmy Carr, not Alan.