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[xbhaskarx]

Time for Nintendo to go third party.

 

[Pikma]

Good luck supporting the platform all by yourselves, Iwata!

 

[espher]

The previous games that ZombiU once was must not have been cheap, because as much as I like the final game, it was not the most AAA of productions.

Exactly my thought.

Niche 6.5/10 game that I loved, but certainly didn't feel AAA.

Either poor mismanagement or it really sold like ass (though every WiiU owner I know personally has a copy of this, so the attach rate is probably solid).

 

[Snowden's Secret]

I can't imagine a scenario where Yves would elaborate by saying "not even close" with regards to ZombiU being profitable, even if that isn't a direct quote, without the general tone being negative.

And I'm sure your condescending tone will help with the constructive discussion.

"ZombiU missed sales forecasts by a wide margin, but we expect Nintendo to turn it around and are waiting to see how holiday sales are."

That is a quote you could reinterpret as "not even close" without any, not an ounce, of the negativity in the article/thread title. It is also, coincidentally, more in line with Ubi's previous comments on the Wii U.

And I'm not being condescending; Pie & Beans is the one saying that I'm trying to not hear the bad news and trying to invalidate what was said, which is an ad hominem--attack me, the arguer, instead of attacking my argument--instead of having to address that, yes, maybe this is not what Guillemot had said.

All I want are the actual quotes. Show me the receipts.

 

[Kurtofan]

Time for Nintendo to go third party.

Fuck that.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Time for Nintendo to go third party.

Anymore I think the people this really gets to aren't Nintendo fans.

They're Sega fans.

Because they know. And the Ice Cap Zone remembers.

 

[DaBoss]

The hardest problem is that it's a catch 22. For Nintendo to cultivate that audience on their platforms they need to have a good amount of 3rd party support to get people interested, but 3rd parties aren't going to invest in such an unstable ecosystem. So does Nintendo have to pay for every single port then? It's become a cycle at this point that seems very hard to break

Yea, this is it. The only way I see it breaking is if both Microsoft and Sony make a mistake. That has been the sole reason for 3rd-parties to jump ship or steer their ship towards something better.

3rd-parties abandoned the N64 because it used a cartridge system instead of a disc based system which caused the PS1 to be the more attractive system. That was a mistake on Nintendo's part. It made them lose their 3rd-party support.

The PS3 was a huge mistake overall, but 3rd-parties were already invested in it and HD development was taxing on them, so they had to go with a multiplatform route where most of the games' main platforms is the 360. Sony could have easily had 3rd-parties being exclusive to them if they didn't fumble so hard with the PS3.

Had both Microsoft and Sony went the DRM route, there would have been an opening for Nintendo to jump on, but that isn't happening. Till the other 2 make a mistake that will cause 3rd-parties to want to make games on a Nintendo platform, I don't really see Nintendo being able to break that cycle.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Gamecube actually got decent 3rd party support, Wii U is having N64 level of 3rd party support.

Hell even the N64 had more support by 3rd parties then the WII U has gotten.

 

[Yado]

Lets say some of you got your way. Nintendo goes multiplatform. Do you think other publishers could make games similar to Nintendo's and be able to sell them on MS/Sony platforms while competing with Nintendo? I'm not sure what effect they would have by no longer segregating certain gamers from the rest of the market. I'm highly worried that Nintendo occupies a large niche that only Nintendo will be able to pacify. I would certainly hope moving into the PS4/Xbox One market would have a transformative effect on those gamers. I'm sick of the dudebro vs manchild false dichotomy that some gamers and publishers have imagined for us but I can't say there isn't a small amount of truth to it either.

Do games within the same vein as Nintendo's output sell well on the other platforms?

 

[Pie and Beans]

"ZombiU missed sales forecasts by a wide margin, but we expect Nintendo to turn it around and are waiting to see how holiday sales are."

That is a quote you could reinterpret as "not even close" without any, not an ounce, of the negativity in the article/thread title. It is also, coincidentally, more in line with Ubi's previous comments on the Wii U.

And I'm not being condescending; Pie & Beans is the one saying that I'm trying to not hear the bad news and trying to invalidate what was said, which is an ad hominem--attack me, the arguer, instead of attacking my argument--instead of having to address that, yes, maybe this is not what Guillemot had said.

All I want are the actual quotes. Show me the receipts.

You are accusing the article writer, essentially, of lying. Lets not beat around the bushes. My position is he doesn't have to show you jackshit, and I don't think his rep is currently in question to even aim such conspiracy at him.

If the exchange was for instance

Q "Was ZombiU profitable?"
A "No."
Q "Was it even close?"
A "Nope"

that doesnt fit the article format. But thats still the information Yves would be giving out. Welcome to article writing masterclass.

 

[fart town usa]

Exactly my thought.

Niche 6.5/10 game that I loved, but certainly didn't feel AAA.

Either poor mismanagement or it really sold like ass (though every WiiU owner I know personally has a copy of this, so the attach rate is probably solid).

I addressed this whole stigma of games that aren't "AAA" earlier in the thread. Thanks for proving my point.

There's nothing wrong with mid-tier titles. Forcing AAA standards on every release has been awful for the gaming industry.

 

[Kurtofan]

Hell even the N64 had more support by 3rd parties then the WII U has gotten.

For its first year? I'm pretty sure comparatively the Wii U got more third party titles.

 

[prag16]

"ZombiU missed sales forecasts by a wide margin, but we expect Nintendo to turn it around and are waiting to see how holiday sales are."

That is a quote you could reinterpret as "not even close" without any, not an ounce, of the negativity in the article/thread title. It is also, coincidentally, more in line with Ubi's previous comments on the Wii U.

And I'm not being condescending; Pie & Beans is the one saying that I'm trying to not hear the bad news and trying to invalidate what was said, which is an ad hominem--attack me, the arguer, instead of attacking my argument--instead of having to address that, yes, maybe this is not what Guillemot had said.

All I want are the actual quotes. Show me the receipts.

That might be overly optimistic, but we just don't know without the quotes.

The point of the whole article was to paint a negative picture. It seems a little too convenient that he didn't include the Ubi quote, makes me think there could be a little spin involved.

To Pie and Beans, wtf is this shit? If people paraphrased terrible stuff about Sony without an actual quote provided people would (rightfully) be asking in that case too. You try to act unbiased but posts like that make me wonder just a little.

 

[Rob Schnoddor]

Sad to hear that ZombiU was a bomb, I enjoyed it. But I think that the game did have some difficulties during the whole development, given that it changed from a rabbids game to a alien shooter to a zombie shooter.


That it was no financial success is not only the fault of the abysmal sales of the Wii U.


And for all those who yell for a third party Nintendo, I would rather see them go down with all their IPs before anyone of the usual suspects here can play any of the Nintendo games on another console. You want to play Zelda, Mario or whatever, get a Nintendo handheld or console.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

You are accusing the article writer, essentially, of lying. Lets not beat around the bushes. My position is he doesn't have to show you jackshit, and I don't think his rep is currently in question to even aim such conspiracy at him.

If the exchange was for instance

Q "Was ZombiU profitable?"
A "No."
Q "Was it even close?"
A "Nope"

that doesnt fit the article format. But thats still the information Yves would be giving out. Welcome to article writing masterclass.

I never accused anyone of anything (no, seriously, go reread my three posts). I just want to see the original quotes. I want to know exactly what Guillemot said.

"I want to know the verbatim quote Guillemot used, for my own personal knowledge" does not mean or imply "I think the author is misrepresenting Guillemot's position."

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Sad to hear that ZombiU was a bomb, I enjoyed it. But I think that the game did have some difficulties during the whole development, given that it changed from a rabbids game to a alien shooter to a zombie shooter.


That it was no financial success is not only the fault of the abysmal sales of the Wii U.


And for all those who yell for a third party Nintendo, I would rather see them go down with all their IPs before anyone of the usual suspects here can play any of the Nintendo games on another console. You want to play Zelda, Mario or whatever, get a Nintendo handheld or console.

Why would any fan of Nintendo want to see them die instead of thrive? Death means they'd be gone and someone else would own the rights to those amazing games and franchises and probably bastardize them. I'd rather see them go third party and focus on what they do best which is make great games all while surviving and making some damn good money doing it.

 

[baphomet]

Awful game got awful sales. Not surprising in the least. People should be thanking Ubisoft for even bothering to continue releasing Wii U games though.

 

[StevieP]

Why would any fan of Nintendo want to see them die instead of thrive? Death means they'd be gone and someone else would own the rights to those amazing games and franchises and probably bastardize them. I'd rather see them go third party and focus on what they do best which is make great games all while surviving and making some damn good money doing it.

The reason they don't take $300 baths on consoles is why they ARE surviving even with a tanking product.

 

[KageMaru]

It was more or less Madden 12 with new rosters, and without any of the new physics features/engine. Without the spectacle of improved graphics to make people forget their buying an inferior product. Full price.

Not to mention 4 months later than the 360/PS3 versions. There was literally no reason to buy that game. None.

Thanks guys for the input. So can anyone tell me why anyone would buy this version over the PS360 versions if the port was closer to parity with the other versions?

Madden 06 on the 360 was also a late port that was lacking, but it sold on the promise that it would look a lot better than the current gen offerings. The Wii-U can't provide this jump, so I'm not sure what could have really been done to help these ports sell better.

 

[Alienous]

"ZombiU missed sales forecasts by a wide margin, but we expect Nintendo to turn it around and are waiting to see how holiday sales are."

That is a quote you could reinterpret as "not even close" without any, not an ounce, of the negativity in the article/thread title. It is also, coincidentally, more in line with Ubi's previous comments on the Wii U.

And I'm not being condescending; Pie & Beans is the one saying that I'm trying to not hear the bad news and trying to invalidate what was said, which is an ad hominem--attack me, the arguer, instead of attacking my argument--instead of having to address that, yes, maybe this is not what Guillemot had said.

All I want are the actual quotes. Show me the receipts.

Now you're just trying to make it say what you want it to.

"ZombiU missed sales forecasts by a wide margin, but we expect Nintendo to turn it around and are waiting to see how holiday sales are."

The "we expect Nintendo to turn it around" part would be a big omission. Alternatively, he could have said "we think that Sony and Microsoft's strategies are more closely aligned with our own market needs", or any number of things. You have to take the information as it is given, assuming anything left out to be negligible. Also, making Rayman Legends multi-platform doesn't make sense, given what you say Yves could have said.

There are tons of potential ways it could have played out:
Yves: "ZombiU wasn't close to profitable".
Yves: "Was ZombiU profitable? Not even close *laughs*".
Yves: "It is our hope to make a profit of platform exclusives, like ZombiU, but that regretfully wasn't nearly the case".

Interpreting it as simply as I can, the fact that Yves elaborates that ZombiU wasn't close to profitable is telling. Either he says it outright, or is asked about the games profits ("Was it profitable") and answers bluntly ("No, it wasn't, not nearly") rather than saying "Whilst we had disappointing sales on ZombiU, we remain committed to the platform". Nope. It likely had a tone more akin to "We can't sell on the Wii U, so we need to spread our games and projects to other more reliable systems", and that isn't a positive comment about the Wii U.

 

[Rob Schnoddor]

The moment I read stuff like "timed exclusive DLC for Mario kart 2016 on Xbox one two three" is the moment barf my insides out. So yes, I would rather see them go down or become a handheld only company.

 

[zruben]

I find really amusing the "nintendo should go 3rd party" argument.

usually, the people who says it, are the ones that are more vocal about how much Nintendo sucks... but at the same time, they are implying that they want nintendo games on other consoles. amusing.

 

[SolidSnakex]

For its first year? I'm pretty sure comparatively the Wii U got more third party titles.

The N64 had a number of notable third party titles in its first years. Turok, WCW vs. NWO World Tour, Shadows of the Empire, Bomberman 64, Top Gear Rally, International Superstar Soccer 64 and Extreme G. And those are all exclusives. It's not amazing, but i'd definitely say that it's superior to the Wii U's support.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I never accused anyone of anything (no, seriously, go reread my three posts). I just want to see the original quotes. I want to know exactly what Guillemot said.

"I want to know the verbatim quote Guillemot used, for my own personal knowledge" does not mean or imply "I think the author is misrepresenting Guillemot's position."

The implicit meaning of "i need the actual quotes because of reasons" is that you have cause to doubt the reality presented in the article. So lets play airy fairy language games and say you have "concerns over the misrepresentation of the reality" before you can fully take on board the bullet points I laid out.

Forgetting of course the articles beginning disclaimer of "most say 'never count Nintendo out'" as well.

 

[Stumpokapow]

There are tons of potential ways it could have played out:
Yves: "ZombiU wasn't close to profitable".
Yves: "Was ZombiU profitable? Not even close *laughs*".
Yves: "It is our hope to make a profit of platform exclusives, like ZombiU, but that regretfully wasn't nearly the case".

Alternatively Yves answered in French, the author didn't interview him at all but rather paraphrased a machine translation of someone else's interview--is this something that's unbelievable to have happened? As someone who is bilingual, if I'm reading someone's translation of the original French, I prefer to translate it myself. Am I stretchy or running an agenda by asking that? Again, I suspect the statements expressed in the article are true, but it is unusual for the most shocking claim in the article to be the least directly cited.

Was the author the one that did the interview or is this a second-hand summary/analysis of another interview? Where did the interview occur? In what language did the interview occur? What was the exact quotation? These are not unreasonable questions to ask, especially in light of the format of the rest of the article, which used direct quotations throughout.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

The PR way of saying:

"We can't rip-off the consumer on the WiiU, so they're out of sync with the future."

or you know there's just a tiny ass amount of people playing games online on wii u

 

[RadarScope1]

It's always felt like a bleak future for the Wii U but these kinds of numbers and info back it up. Just not looking good for Nintendo in the near future.

 

[Interceptor]

Well thank you. People are constantly bitching for new IPs and when the they get the best new survival horror in a decade they don´t fucking buy it.

Damn i´m pissed. The 3rd person cinematic shotbang future is upon us.

Edit: @Evolution_1ne: You are surely smart enough to provide us with some context aren´t you? It seems the picture is from today. You surely wouldn´t post some pictures during launch time to fake an argument wouldn´t you?

 

[MrBS]

I did my part Yves

I loved ZombiU. Still the only game I own for damn system (not counting the pack in).

Blaming ZombiU for Legends as well? No sequel? So many feels right now.

 

[Sadist]

or you know there's just a tiny ass amount of people playing games online on wii u

Ugh, that pic is taken one day after the North American Wii U launch.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

It's a shame. Really good game. Although I agree, I never saw a single tv ad for the game and have seen few tv ads for anything Wii u related. Nintendo better get on that. I would love to read something on the advertisement aspect of Wii u and it's games.

 

[Raoh]

I really liked ZombiU, but after that I had no other reason to keep my WiiU. I did play CoD for wiiU just to see how the online ran.

Wasn't able to sell my WiiU so I ended up using it as a trade in towards my PS4 pre order.

It would be nice if they could port ZombiU to PS4/X180 where it would sell a lot better. I really enjoyed it and would hate to see the IP get shelved.

 

[DragonSworne]

I find really amusing the "nintendo should go 3rd party" argument.

usually, the people who says it, are the ones that are more vocal about how much Nintendo sucks... but at the same time, they are implying that they want nintendo games on other consoles. amusing.

Most people think Nintendo hardware sucks, not the software.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Gamecube actually got decent 3rd party support, Wii U is having N64 level of 3rd party support.

N64 actually had some pretty good western third party support. Wii U is more like the tail end of GC where all the games had dried up and there was only a significant release every few months. By the time RE4 came out on GC, the system had been dead about a year IIRC. It got even worse after that.

Zombie U had Red Steel all over it imo. A game like that in a crowded genre is only going to appeal to a small number of people. I commend Ubisoft for their support of the Wii U, but this should have been seen coming from miles away. They should have scrapped the game when it wasn't within a certain budget.

 

[Interceptor]

Most people think Nintendo hardware sucks, not the software.

And some people think the CEOs suck - and won´t stop telling other people about it. Again and again and again.

Spoiler

And again.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

The implicit meaning of "i need the actual quotes because of reasons" is that you have cause to doubt the reality presented in the article. So lets play airy fairy language games and say you have "concerns over the misrepresentation of the reality" before you can fully take on board the bullet points I laid out.

Forgetting of course the articles beginning disclaimer of "most say 'never count Nintendo out'" as well.

Because he wants specific quotes can mean a ton of things. To me, I like to be precise. So I can make a sound judgement. Not that I don't trust the interviewer but I can appreciate someone else who wants precision. Not that hard and should be demanded in the area of games journalism.

 

[SporeCrawler]

It's always felt like a bleak future for the Wii U but these kinds of numbers and info back it up. Just not looking good for Nintendo in the near future.

Actually i think the near future looks pretty good

they will have 6 titles that sold 5 million units plus in the past and all of em are exclusive (Donkey Kong, Wii Fit, Wii Party, Mario 3D World, Sonic and Mario). They also have a few smaller exclusive titles (windwaker HD, w101, pikmin 3, scribblenauts, sonic) and a few multiplats (watchdogs, ass4, batman)
going into 2014 they will also have MK8 and SSB4.

What I am worried about is after that initial big push.

Most people think Nintendo hardware sucks, not the software.

yeah but nintendo is nintendo because they are a first party company. If they would be a third party they would be much smaller and would not be able to make games they make now.

 

[DragonSworne]

It's a shame. Really good game. Although I agree, I never saw a single tv ad for the game and have seen few tv ads for anything Wii u related. Nintendo better get on that. I would love to read something on the advertisement aspect of Wii u and it's games.

Nintendo said that their advertisement budget this year is the same last year's.

So if you didn't see an ad last year, it's safe to assume you won't see one this year.

 

[GamerJM]

Welp, I supported it with my money on day one. What can ya do, I guess.

 

[Effnine]

I find really amusing the "nintendo should go 3rd party" argument.

usually, the people who says it, are the ones that are more vocal about how much Nintendo sucks... but at the same time, they are implying that they want nintendo games on other consoles. amusing.

It's because I'd rather not have to shell out an extra $300 for just 2 games ... I'm sure this applies to most people who honestly want Nintendo to be multi-platform.

 

[Vermillion]

I find really amusing the "nintendo should go 3rd party" argument.

usually, the people who says it, are the ones that are more vocal about how much Nintendo sucks... but at the same time, they are implying that they want nintendo games on other consoles. amusing.

People like Nintendo's games - it's just that the hardware doesn't keep to the standard set by the competition. Beyond that, they don't manage to get all of the other third-party multi-plats. If people want to buy a single system, Nintendo is not offering enough incentive to make Wii U their only system.

 

[Mindlog]

A shame considering it's one of the most interesting recent launch titles, upcoming consoles particularly included.

 

[SporeCrawler]

It's because I'd rather not have to shell out an extra $300 for just 2 games ... I'm sure this applies to most people who honestly want Nintendo to be multi-platform.

well then you just dont play that two games. if those two games are worth the 300 $ you shell out the money. I paid 300 euros for Last Guardian and FF XIII Versus and none of that comes to the platform that I paid 300 $ for (uncharted made it worth it though)

People like Nintendo's games - it's just that the hardware doesn't keep to the standard set by the competition. Beyond that, they don't manage to get all of the other third-party multi-plats. If people want to buy a single system, Nintendo is not offering enough incentive to make Wii U their only system.

well its not their interest to just keep the standard. they need to be offering something else or they will be burried even more.

Also if getting multiplats is the standard of success the Wii would be the worst platform ever made. But I think at least Nintendos shareholders will agree that it made some profit for the company both in terms of hardware sales and software sales.

we talk like nintendo had hardware failure after hardware failure, but they had 2 very succesful hardwares in the prior gen and a major turnaround with the 3DS.

 

[DrWong]

Nintendo said that their advertisement budget this year is the same last year's.

So if you didn't see an ad last year, it's safe to assume you won't see one this year.

They didn't said that if you're referring to the investors QA where Iwata adressed this topic. Marketing budget, if I remember well, has slightly increased and focus has been shifted to the 2nd half of the year.

 

[8bits]

or you know there's just a tiny ass amount of people playing games online on wii u

Oh and I guess you just took that screenshot today?....Right.

Anyways, does anyone have any up to date numbers on cod? Last I heard it was around 2,500 people online at average.

 

[Vermillion]

well its not their interest to just keep the standard. they need to be offering something else or they will be burried even more.

we talk like nintendo had hardware failure after hardware failure, but they had 2 very succesful hardwares in the prior gen and a major turnaround with the 3DS.

The main difference between Nintendo consoles and other consoles is the games - not the gimmicks. Then, of course, it's weaker. If Nintendo were to go third-party, people would have pretty much all the games they want. Alternatively - and I should say the best-case scenario - is for Nintendo to get that third-party support for themselves. Comparative power would be a bonus. But if Nintendo could have gotten all of the other multi-plats, it would be easy to go with Wii U alone for the generation. Again, the difference is their games. That's why we buy Nintendo's hardware.

And 3DS still isn't where it needs to be, but we'll see where Pokemon puts that.

EDIT: Multiplats would make it more valuable to us as well. Last generation, Wii was essentially a secondary console - I imagine that many gamers owned both a PS360 and a Wii. Thing is, it was cheap enough and interesting enough to make that the case.

 

[baphomet]

Ugh, that pic is taken one day after the North American Wii U launch.

And yet the number 8 months after launch isn't much better. 2k is the norm, and you still can't even find enough people to play some of the most basic game types. It's a fucking disaster.

 

[therapist]

Sad news , its the best Wii U game imo. (Of the Wii u only games)

 

[Mr. B Natural]

There were many out there that predicted the WiiU to be the next Wii.

Those people were wrong. It could have happened but it didn't.
Those people who invested in that prediction lost money.

Everything else is ancillary.

 

[SporeCrawler]

The main difference between Nintendo consoles and other consoles is the games - not the gimmicks. Then, of course, it's weaker. If Nintendo were to go third-party, people would have pretty much all the games they want. Alternatively - and I should say the best-case scenario - is for Nintendo to get that third-party support for themselves. Comparative power would be a bonus. But if Nintendo could have gotten all of the other multi-plats, it would be easy to go with Wii U alone for the generation. Again, the difference is their games. That's why we buy Nintendo's hardware.

And 3DS still isn't where it needs to be, but we'll see where Pokemon puts that.

EDIT: Multiplats would make it more valuable to us as well. Last generation, Wii was essentially a secondary console - I imagine that many gamers owned both a PS360 and a Wii. Thing is, it was cheap enough and interesting enough to make that the case.

so why cant i have all three and just regard them all as equal? There are games on all three platforms that i didnt want to miss. ( I have way more games on wii than on ps360 btw. So if i had to choose it def was my primary console)