It is on the front page of the huffington post.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/05/wikileaks-exposes-video-o_n_525569.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/05/wikileaks-exposes-video-o_n_525569.html
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WikiLeaks releases video of US Apache helicopter (now with added RPGs)
- Thread starter DogWelder
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Hari Seldon
Member
Pandaman said:
Well I actually think the first attack was perfectly acceptable especially considering the circumstances. The answer is not monday morning quarterback pilots in a life or death situation, the answer is to not go to war so shit like this doesn't happen at all.
Well, I'm an outsider so this story doesn't really touch me (except it's atrocius). Actually I agree with people saying it's war, shit happens, blah-blah-blah (that's not making war any better however), but I can't understand how people here are wonder why no major outlets are reporting this story.
Well, back in 2008 after the first reports from South Ossetia (not official reports, I'm talking about blogs and people calling their relatives) about Saakashvili setting sleeping Tshinval on fire with mass-destruction weapons I visited CNN, BBC, NYTIMES, Guardian to get an alternative take on the story, since I don't believe our official media and I wanted to know THE TRUTH :lol
Nothing. People are dying under BM-21 Grad rockets in their homes in Tshinval and they report nothing. Then our official media kicked in, I had their point and went to sleep. Next morning I hit CNN, BBC, NYTIMES, Guardian. Still nothing. I'm like wtf, civil people are dying there and there is no way they don't know this because it's been like that for like 12 hours now. Then later this day our tanks went to burning Tshinval. I visit CNN - and voila! The story is all over the place!! Russia is atacking Georgia!! It was a day of great dissapointment in humanity and West in general for me. I thought that there's such thing as freedom of speech there and people are really trying to report facts, truth and so on. But then I was watching some equivalent of Brejnev TV. It was disgusting. I understood that no matter where you are the government will always try to brainwash you and fuck you over. I was depressed for a few days. It's all about walking in line.
Then BBC started EDITING quotes of our officials. Like cutting phrases, words to make them sound in appropriate way for... who (heh)? And that was it. I've never visited CNN, BBC considering them propaganda tools and not professional news outlets.
But I am an outsider, it's ok for me not knowing such things and have some illusions about other countries. But you people, I thought you knew how it really is, since you live there. God bless the free internet. Free for now.
Well, back in 2008 after the first reports from South Ossetia (not official reports, I'm talking about blogs and people calling their relatives) about Saakashvili setting sleeping Tshinval on fire with mass-destruction weapons I visited CNN, BBC, NYTIMES, Guardian to get an alternative take on the story, since I don't believe our official media and I wanted to know THE TRUTH :lol
Nothing. People are dying under BM-21 Grad rockets in their homes in Tshinval and they report nothing. Then our official media kicked in, I had their point and went to sleep. Next morning I hit CNN, BBC, NYTIMES, Guardian. Still nothing. I'm like wtf, civil people are dying there and there is no way they don't know this because it's been like that for like 12 hours now. Then later this day our tanks went to burning Tshinval. I visit CNN - and voila! The story is all over the place!! Russia is atacking Georgia!! It was a day of great dissapointment in humanity and West in general for me. I thought that there's such thing as freedom of speech there and people are really trying to report facts, truth and so on. But then I was watching some equivalent of Brejnev TV. It was disgusting. I understood that no matter where you are the government will always try to brainwash you and fuck you over. I was depressed for a few days. It's all about walking in line.
Then BBC started EDITING quotes of our officials. Like cutting phrases, words to make them sound in appropriate way for... who (heh)? And that was it. I've never visited CNN, BBC considering them propaganda tools and not professional news outlets.
But I am an outsider, it's ok for me not knowing such things and have some illusions about other countries. But you people, I thought you knew how it really is, since you live there. God bless the free internet. Free for now.
kyo_daikun
Member
Kandrick said:
At this point they are still under the impression they are terrorists or enemy combatants. The guys picking them up could be other terrorists trying to save their mates and reclaim their weapons (im sure they would prefer them to be left so they can get their details/ interrogate the one still alive for intel), if it was reversed do you think the taliban/ terrorists would allow the americans to rescue their injured troops? Not a chance in hell.
All a big accident, their attitudes are shameful tho.
MSNBC gained a lot of points with me today.
I don't see CNN not covering this at all, I'm hoping they're preparing their story right now.
My own opinion of this whole thing is conflicted, as I don't think the soldiers knowingly fired on civilians/journalists. But this needs to be seen by as many eyes as possible.
I don't see CNN not covering this at all, I'm hoping they're preparing their story right now.
My own opinion of this whole thing is conflicted, as I don't think the soldiers knowingly fired on civilians/journalists. But this needs to be seen by as many eyes as possible.
Can someone explain to me where the camera thing came from? I just watched the whole video and that is not mentioned once.
A soldier on the ground even says, "I see what looks to be an rpg where you said you engaged the target" or something like that. The choppers tell them to get pictures of everything.
Im confused...
A soldier on the ground even says, "I see what looks to be an rpg where you said you engaged the target" or something like that. The choppers tell them to get pictures of everything.
Im confused...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/05/video-appears-forces-firing-unarmed-suspects-baghdad/
It's up on Fox front page.
It's up on Fox front page.
Zombie James
Banned
That was fucking disturbing to watch. Saying "nice" at the sight of dead bodies isn't a normal human reaction, I hope all the people involved got or get some serious psychological counseling.
mugurumakensei
Member
taylor910 said:
We know two of the guys who were shot were reporters. The "RPG" was much too small, and the "AK" was clearly a tripod. So, what do you think?
iamaustrian
Member
kyo_daikun said:
ok, stop with this bullshit.
NOTHING pointed that the van driver was a terrorist.
The injured guy was crawling on his knees into the street around the corner.
The van guy didn't even see the massacre. He just saw a guy laying in the dirt who needs help and so he stopped. He didn't know that there were like 11 dead people maybe 50 meters away.
there was like no reason at all to assume that the van-guy was somehow related to the other people.
Virtua Ben
Member
mugurumakensei said:
1.) You can point the RPG at the ground without killing yourself. It's not the posture but the trigger that does that.
2.) You have the privilege of going back and reviewing the tape, the soldiers in the helicopter did not.
Alucrid said:
Jesus. How many times does it have to be said. The Apache was there to provide support for a convoy on the ground. They thought that the guy was peaking around the corner waiting for the convoy to come and then shoot it with the supposed RPG. The apache was never under the impression that they themselves were in any danger, only the forces on the ground.
From the HuffPo story:
If there were any justice in the world, this would be a massive scandal with considerable fall out. In ADDITION to the fallout from the video itself.
There's not, of course.
So by using military resources and intelligence to retaliate against the whistle blowers by targeting and outing them, they hope to suppress additional releases by removing Wikileaks' ability to protect their ananymity.
If there were any justice in the world, this would be a massive scandal with considerable fall out. In ADDITION to the fallout from the video itself.
There's not, of course.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
mello said:
Excellent. Good on Fox News.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
mello said:
UGH
http://twitter.com/wilw/status/11661739524
Mirror: http://i41.tinypic.com/v7rdt.jpg
Wil Wheaton said:
Mirror: http://i41.tinypic.com/v7rdt.jpg
Aesius
Member
Zombie James said:
It's not a normal human reaction, but it's a normal military reaction. As others have said, when you join the military and are assigned to a combative role, you are trained to think of the enemy as just that - the fucking enemy. You don't sit and ponder the implications of killing dozens of people, you just do it. And you might brag about it, because that's the culture of military dudes who are deployed. It's not up to you to decide whether that's right or wrong. That attitude is encouraged because it helps get the job done.
Whether the job itself is right is another issue. But taking offense because someone in the military killed people (who he thought were the enemy) and was happy about it is just naive as fuck. And recommending they get counseling? :lol
mugurumakensei
Member
GAZERK said:
The soldiers also had plenty of time to wait and assess rather than getting trigger happy considering that group never fired on anyone.
avatar299 said:
You mean tripods. Or did you seriously not pay that much attention to the video?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Pandaman said:
He wasn't crouching behind a corner? Come on. I'm so tired of the monday morning quarterbacking these types of issues spawn. At 4:09 it certainly looks like the man is getting ready to fire something, that's not debatable; he stands up and seems to point at the helicopter just as the view is obscured by the building. Even if the video is disturbing, it's odd people cannot put themselves in the soldiers shoes and admit this was a high tension, dangerous situation and yes, mistakes can be made in those situations.
I'm done with this thread. I see where this is going.
mugurumakensei said:
Just trying not to jump to conclusions. If it is DEFINITELY NOT an rpg, then how is it DEFINITELY a tripod? and a camera?
My thinking is, this isnt just a random group of guys they decide to harass. They are there watching them for valid reasons (I believe).
Besides, dont reporters follow the terrorists in some cases? Film them, interview them?
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
While I'm glad Fox News put that up, "Appears to show...?" What the hell do they have to do to move to "Shows?"
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Exactlymugurumakensei said:
mugurumakensei
Member
taylor910 said:
Cause the "AK", tripod, was large enough to be clearly seen while the supposed rpg was not. Now, I'm no expert but generally a missile launcher is larger than an AK.
Zombie James said:
What should they say? A prayer every time they kill a terrorist piece of scum (which they believed they just killed)? Especially from their position, where it really is hardly more than a video game, it's hard to really feel bad about killing some human-shaped figures. I think it's understandable, especially if you've already got some war experience.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
crazy monkey
Banned
Al-jazira looks way more professional.Xabora said:
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Stridone said:
Virtua Ben
Member
mugurumakensei said:
Plenty of time being several minutes? Sure, to us that's a lot of time, but when you're worrying about some bad dudes blowing up friendlies you don't have "plenty of time."
El_TigroX said:
It's that way on MSNBC too. It's because there's no direct confirmation that the people killed in that video were the reporters even though it's pretty safe to assume so.
mugurumakensei
Member
GAZERK said:
The group never fired even when fired upon. The military had more than several minutes too considering the convoy got their a while after the group was shot.
OriginalThinking
Member
Aesius said:
If they are trained to enjoy/brag about killing people then maybe, just maybe they are doing it wrong? And people wonder why America gets a bad press?
the man was not crouching behind anything. your perception of this is borne solely from your point of view from the gunners seat. the man was standing and crouching on a streetcorner in the bright light of the day with a group of his buddies. the man was an innocent civilian. he wasn't trying to hide from the helicopter he never saw. nothing he did makes him responsible for that slaughter in any sense of the word.PhoenixDark said:
blame space
Banned
oh come on.Aesius said:
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