Eh that's not really fair given his platform. Like for example giant bomb has a weekly podcast where they can air their thoughts and concerns. Geoff mainly does PR interviews or stuff that is mainly about showing off games and not giving your actual opinion.
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Geoff Keighley talks No Man's Sky, Sean Murray "open" to explain what happened to NMS
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
Insane Metal
Member
Kacho
Member
Yes I remember liking it quite a bit.
SprachBrooks
Member
Very nice! Looks like a new gaming show I'll be tuning into weekly.
lazer_bean
Member
I really hope he won't do the old "I'm here but you can't see me" again
Geoff continues to be great. I love his approach to this kind of thing: understanding and sympathetic, while also prioritizing the truth. I find that to be much more conducive to really wrapping your head around someone, as opposed to coming from a purely critical or cynical place.
Were I a PR person, I would suggest to Sean that he accept the invitation. He still has the ability to redeem himself, but that'll probably require going through a tough interview or two, and Geoff brings a perfect combination of fairness and credibility to the table. Not like he has much to lose in terms of his public image.
Were I a PR person, I would suggest to Sean that he accept the invitation. He still has the ability to redeem himself, but that'll probably require going through a tough interview or two, and Geoff brings a perfect combination of fairness and credibility to the table. Not like he has much to lose in terms of his public image.
TheSpoiler
Member
lmaooo dude is never going to appear on that show to get eviscerated by the gaming community unless his lawyers tell him it's okay. And I highly doubt he will address things like multiplayer and whatever because that will sink him into the ground.
If you people are looking for Sean to apologize, it's not going to happen. Dude dug a deep hole and knew it would have been better to address this during launch time. But it's so late in the game that they'd rather sweep it under the rug. That advertising company thing isn't going to do shit but remove stuff from the Steam store.
His next game, or whatever he makes after this, is doomed. Dude really should have nipped it and taken it on the chin instead of letting it snowball like it did.
His best bet is to address it immediately, apologize, offer some sort of free content or heartfelt letter akin to what was in the press kit box, and state that he's going to appear on the show. Waiting until the actual show will only make it worse, because it isn't even confirmed if he's going or not.
You are right in the fact that he doesn't have much to lose right now, but ego is a heavy thing to let go of. And I'm not banking on him dropping that to apologize to the consumers.
If you people are looking for Sean to apologize, it's not going to happen. Dude dug a deep hole and knew it would have been better to address this during launch time. But it's so late in the game that they'd rather sweep it under the rug. That advertising company thing isn't going to do shit but remove stuff from the Steam store.
His next game, or whatever he makes after this, is doomed. Dude really should have nipped it and taken it on the chin instead of letting it snowball like it did.
His best bet is to address it immediately, apologize, offer some sort of free content or heartfelt letter akin to what was in the press kit box, and state that he's going to appear on the show. Waiting until the actual show will only make it worse, because it isn't even confirmed if he's going or not.
You are right in the fact that he doesn't have much to lose right now, but ego is a heavy thing to let go of. And I'm not banking on him dropping that to apologize to the consumers.
People were so fucking pissed at the time...
As an aside, I think this is also something we apply to game prices. I don't think I'm the type who generally complains about game prices, but I think it's funny that we get things like "this can't be $20, do you know how much it cost to make it" when someone isn't satisfied with the price of the game. People typical don't look at the production costs when they're deciding whether to buy a product, they look at how much it costs and how much value they think it's worth to themselves personally.
thecouncil
Banned
Sean agrees to come on set. He arrives and goes into his private room before the show.
Geoff knocks on door of his room and tells him the show is about to start.
There is no answer.
Geoff opens the door and the window curtains are blowing in the breeze.
Sean has escaped.
Geoff gasps. "He said he would be on the show. He lied again!"
I come out of the woodwork. "He only agreed to come on set. Sean never lied."
Geoff knocks on door of his room and tells him the show is about to start.
There is no answer.
Geoff opens the door and the window curtains are blowing in the breeze.
Sean has escaped.
Geoff gasps. "He said he would be on the show. He lied again!"
I come out of the woodwork. "He only agreed to come on set. Sean never lied."
Bolivar687
Banned
Kinda rubs me the wrong way that Keighley wants to milk this for everything it's worth, even as he's throwing them under the bus.
TheSpoiler
Member
Your stuff reads like wint.
I love it.
He was fair and balanced in his assessment. He admitted to propping up NMS, was honest to the viewers, and said he'd like to have him on the show. Furthermore, you are using the term "throwing him under the bus wrong", because in addition to what I just said, Sean threw himself under the bus by handling it like he did.
cartographer
Member
You're right. People should just not talk about it anymore so that Hello Games can feel better about the situation they created. Geoff especially.
Depends, if they are indeed working on a big update, it could be one way to promote it.
BouncyFrag
Member
If you thought Sean was uncomfortable talking about the game before release...
Agreed on that point. Looking at this situation from the outside, as someone who didn't buy the game (so feel free to stop reading), I feel like this small team took on a hugely ambitious project, got overly excited about their work and didn't quite deliver on expectations. Sure, Sean shouldn't have let the excitement get away from him but, if I imagine myself in his shoes (working with a small team to make the game of my dreams), I'd probably get over excited and make some promises that I'd end up whiffing on as well. I do shit like that all the time. "come over to my place tonight dinners gonna be amazing I'm so excited about this recipe... whoops I fucked it up because I got over zealous and bit off more than I can chew."
I just can't help but feel at least kinda bad for the guy and his team. For all we know, we could be 6 months to a year away from a patch that blows everyone's minds but all anyone wants to do is shame the dude and demand fucking apologies. Like wtf wait for reviews and make an informed purchase if you're that entitled. This was their life's work to this point. You spent $60. These things are too disproportionate, in my mind, to justify too much ill will toward Sean and the gang.
Also, I feel like the "what do you do in this game" people that everyone used to shout down are totally vindicated. That's actually my favorite part of this. A bunch of people looking at this game pre-release and acting like it was gonna solve world hunger, then you had a minority who were looking at it like "I don't get it why is this good" and being ran off for expressing that (admittedly maybe a bit too frequently).
I hope anyone that may have been banned for that gets reparations. Usually, it's not frowned upon to acknowledge that a game looks bad/uninteresting before it's released.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Because that was years ago. How is Geoff going to know how the game was going to turn out years later? The last he saw of it was in March and even then, he hasn't exactly had much of a platform to say anything about it. Even if he did, it would be a bit in poor taste considering he probably was only given that access to give internal feedback.
TheSpoiler
Member
Inviting someone over for dinner is different than selling a product to a consumer. It's absolutely tiresome to go over this, but a consumer should not have to sift through files to find out if you implemented a promised feature discussed even after release. I suggest you continue looking.
Always this bullshit. Bu bu bu they tried, why are you so mean to these poor indie developers that just had big dreams!
The fucking VG industry treats consumer like a number, they hunt whales and push the envelope every opportunity they get. They understand it is a business, they are not inviting friends over for a meal, they are charging you $60 of your hard earned money for a product, and in this case lying consistently about it and then disappearing (with all that money) once it gets tough.
You can build a good relationship of trust with customers where they are more willing to understand your woes. Communication is a big part of that, and the only thing Hello Games and Sean have communicated so far is: overpromising things, thanks for your $60, goodbye.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Really good dialogue about the game. Good on you, Geoff.
Are there any other parts of this show's episode worth watching? I only watched the titanfall content early on.
Are there any other parts of this show's episode worth watching? I only watched the titanfall content early on.
To be honest I think they'll only start talking once they've put out an update. Which will probably address some of the issues people have and enable them to say 'it's coming ' to any awkward questions regarding other features.
KevMan1815
Member
I've been a fan since I saw him trying to defend Mass Effect on Fox News. In my memory it was probably better than it actually was, but I remember being impressed by how calm he handled things and presented questions that were flat out ignored because "Little Billy can have sex with aliens!"
Sean doesn't seem that shy, dude went on a press tour including Colbert for crying out loud.
Virtual Reality DLC is my bet
Virtual Reality DLC is my bet
Dezcom
Member
This is really fascinating to look back on. The purported gameplay loop just wasn't adding up to anything more meaty than what the game ultimately released with.
Jerm411
Member
Been a big defender of NMS but I don't think I've ever been as let down by a game as I was by it...and I know it's my fault for buying into the hype and being fooled.
Havin said that, Murray and Hello Games can fuck off as far as I'm concerned....I don't even care what he has to say TBH.
I look at Sony in a different light as well frankly....I know HG developed it and we're responsible for the messaging around the game but they constantly spotlighted it every chance they got and talked about it in the same vein Murray did and hyped it beyond belief.
Just a shit show all the way around.
Havin said that, Murray and Hello Games can fuck off as far as I'm concerned....I don't even care what he has to say TBH.
I look at Sony in a different light as well frankly....I know HG developed it and we're responsible for the messaging around the game but they constantly spotlighted it every chance they got and talked about it in the same vein Murray did and hyped it beyond belief.
Just a shit show all the way around.
Doctor Ironic
Member
Yeah, no, it still would have been a lie. If he's actively advertising those features before launch, and then insists that those features are in the game AFTER launch, and then only corrects himself after the game has sold 95% of the copies it's ever going to sell - it's a lie.
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
i wasn't expecting something that brutal
Chiggs
Member
Geoff and millions of others following the game's development.
Video games are a unique product in that you have many opportunities to get insight into criticisms of a game, you can watch video of the game, you can seriously know almost exactly what you're getting just by doing the slightest amount of research. We're on NeoGAF. We're fiends. It wouldn't be any problem to spend half an hour around release day to consume enough media to get an idea of if you want to buy the game.
You wouldn't have had to "sift through files" to find out if this game implemented every feature you expected. You just had to wait until a few hours after the game was released and go practically ANYWHERE that video games are discussed. This is a hugely ambitious title made by a ridiculously small team with zero track record of similar releases. If you pre-ordered this game and jumped in sight-unseen, then you need to evaluate your buying habits. It doesn't take incredible foresight to recognize those red flags and temper expectations.
Sure, Sean didn't handle things well, but this thing should've never been marketed like it was. I'm not talking about Sean over-promising (although, obviously, he should've just shut up and let the game talk instead of writing all these checks before pay day)... I'm talking about Sony giving this thing big time conference headliner type treatment like this small indie team is about to make a damn system seller out of what is, conceptually, a game you'd expect to be handled by a much larger studio. They pimped the fact that this thing was a console exclusive. From that point on, hype manufacturing was mandatory and, as we now know, there really wasn't all that much to be hyped about.
Also, the game has looked dull from day one. Can we be real about that now, please? It never seemed, to me, like much more than a neat idea that I might spend a few hours in and then never, ever return to.
The fucking VG industry treats developers, indie or otherwise, like a number. And so do gamers. It's always funny to see a thread lamenting the misfortune of laid-off devs and how brutal the industry is, then another thread bitching about a game that failed to meet your expectations. You have agency. You were not forced to buy this product before critics and others could get their hands on it. If you bought this game prior to the backlash, you decided to allow marketing make a decision for you, and marketing is almost always bullshit to some extent.
Also, go after Sony. Since so many people seem to be unable to make their buying decisions on anything but manufactured hype and snazzy trailers, direct your anger to the company that tried to prop up a small indie developer as being capable of creating a AAA-caliber console exclusive game. Everyone had an inkling of this being too good to be true. We all thought it, we all said it at some point and we were all right. This never should've been marketed to us as anything more than an interesting upcoming indie game.
Icyflamez96
Member
The people who presented the "what do you do" question disingenuously aren't any more "right" for doing so just because there are a bunch of features talked about pre-release that didn't make it to the final cut. That doesn't make any sense.
Anyone who thought the game was not going to deliver, or that the devs were overpromising are right, but the what do you do question isn't even "right" to present in such a manner now. The answer to that question is similar now in a lot of ways than it was before launch, just missing a lot of depth/details previously stated, and executed in a lower quality fashion than many people would have liked.
HanzSnubSnub
Member
Geoff seems like a great voice for the community. Seems down to earth.
So people watched the actual media of the game that was released, found it boring and they were being disingenuous for not perusing all the "other" stuff that they "can't show you right now but is totally a part of the game omg I swear"? Nah. The people basing their opinion on the things that they've actually seen are the ones being reasonable. Every video they've ever shown of the game was a freaking chore to watch.
How about you feel sorry for all the indie developers who manage to keep expectations in check rather than feel sorry for the one who didn't.
I didn't buy the game, I didn't buy their bullshit marketing and I certainly don't feel sorry for them like you do because the only ones who put them in that position were themselves, no one else. They happily took the money (the game sold very well at $60) and stopped communicating, and you are acting like it's unfair to hold them accountable for what they delivered and comparing their business to you making a meal for friends and being over your head.
And while Sony gave them a platform to sell their game, I really doubt Sony decided to sell it using the words and videos and promises Sean used. So no, go after Hello Games, you know, the people responsible for the software people got and are clearly unsatisfied with. Go after the studio who stood up there in the presentations and promised things that were not in the game, and the people who refuse, to this day, to communicate about it. It's that simple.
Icyflamez96
Member
If they found it boring and thought it looked uninteresting, they could just say so, and that would be a fine position to take.
Anyone who posted that question when their actual view on the game is "I've heard what you do, it just sounds boring and uninteresting", were being nothing else but counterproductive and inflammatory. Because all that did was cause more confusion, as people who actually genuinely asked the question were going to wonder why they get some hostile replies because people couldn't tell for sure with what intentions the question was being asked. This conflict was only proliferated by people like that mudding up the message behind that question.
I don't see why some are trying use the fact that Sean over promised as leverage to spite the side who was frustrated that presentation of the question. Before launch, Sean was crystal clear about many things that were in the game, and many things that ended up not being in the game. It's at no fault of any consumer that there turned out to be a lot of missing features.
TheSpoiler
Member
I'm not talking about whether or not a game is fun, though there was a stark lack of direct hands-on time with NMS comparatively than other games.
Two things.
The onus should not be on the consumer to determine whether or not features are in a game, especially when even past release date Sean was confirming that multiplayer was in (it wasn't), and in the case of NMS, it took days to have a quantified list of things not found within the title.
What about the consumers who do not browse NeoGaf? You keep structuring it like this forum is the only place that bought the game. It wasn't.
In the case of features such as multiplayer, you had the developer acknowledging that it was in days after release and being flippant when asked where it was. This is why you should probably do more research before jumping in a discussion, but whatever!
Sony pimping it out has nothing to do with Sean going on shows such as the one with Geoff and promoting his game with features that didn't make the cut. Sony didn't put up the current Steam page video that shows a few things that didn't make it into the game, such as animals moving trees and such.
I'm strictly talking about the amount of features that didn't make it in and the marketing materials that made the game look more than it was. I am not talking about the quality of the product, merely how it was presented.
Once again, please do more research. At this point you've ignored the fact that the marketing materials and Sean's own words prior and after release don't match up with the product, and somehow are absolving him of not being honest to the consumers. That's how things don't change, and poor little indie studio excuse doesn't cut it. If other developers can be honest, big or small, and come clean when they've fucked up, HG can do the same. As it stands, they have not, and no amount of BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE WAITED justifies the hoops consumers have to go through to find out if a game has a touted feature or not.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
How nice of Sean
The Jackdog
Member
"Sean, could you tell us what happened with the advertising of no mans sky not matching up to the end product?"
"wow, theres so many people here. so many people are watching. Wow. Just amazing"
"okay but the marketing. what happened with that?"
"Wow. So many things. Wow. Amazing stuff happened"
"wow, theres so many people here. so many people are watching. Wow. Just amazing"
"okay but the marketing. what happened with that?"
"Wow. So many things. Wow. Amazing stuff happened"
Really a shame what happened to this game. In retrospective the 60$ pricetag was indeed a big mistake. We expected an AAA game but got an Early Access title. Shame on Sony, HG and on me for hyping and defending the game so much before it even was released. Now I feel dumb and betrayed -.-
PdotMichael
Banned
MegaSackman
Member
I bet Sean is gonna apologize himself and share some tears.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
You know what happens to journalists who bad-mouth highly anticipated games. Hell, look what happened to the journalist who announced the delay! And it's not like anyone in the press actually got a chance to play the full game, he would have been accused (perhaps rightfully) of talking out of his ass.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Can I also be that guy?
Geoff, the ASA is not England's, it's the UK's. Sorry, but it's a bugbear I have.
Geoff, the ASA is not England's, it's the UK's. Sorry, but it's a bugbear I have.
IgotElbows
Member
I'd say many people did see it coming. The biggest and still most solid argument is where they came from. I mean from a game like Joe Danger comes TO THE BIGGEST AND BEST GAME EVER, it just didn't seem likely.
Might sound mean but expecting a small indie studio to be making an amazing Triple A game is just silly.
I really don't feel like he'll be on live, even though Geoff kinda said he would. Best case scenario is a prerecorded video with an excuse that "He's very busy working on a patch" etc. Worst case being he just chickens out.
Only way it will be live is if they do practice interviews or something, and Sean has time to ready himself to answer all Geoff as to ask.