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CBOAT: ESRAM handicap for now, but will get better

N

NotMyRealName

Banned
oflaherty01 said:
But why, it's my conjecture. Please give me more than "Just stop." We know the max outputs in each of the console pipelines, and we know the power outputs. I am not talking about just graphical fidelity here, I am talking in game mechanics, load times, and advantages that could be used by first parties on either console. I haven't looked as in depth into the ps4 pipeline, so I gave a light conjecture and maybe I should not have given one at all.
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Yeeup
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
SwiftDeath said:
So 1080p on PS4 or what?

Could be same on both I suppose
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Yes, that question is kind of key really. Are both new consoles on equal footing in this regard or is the Xbox One actually going to "suffer" by comparison. Theoretical numbers and specs on paper are one thing. Actual difference in real life/games is another.
 
G

Gaz_RB

Member
Codeblew said:
My bet is Albert sent an internal company memo that pissed CBOAT off.
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Memo:

"Whoever CBOAT is needs to confess and apologize right now or you're fired!"

PS: Casual day is tomorrow, don't forget to wear jeans!
PPS: No one say anything about CoD's resolution until launch."
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
I didn't think resolutions of either Thief next-gen SKU was known.

But I don't think Thuway would have been as excited, for some reason, if it was 900p on both.
 
R

REV 09

Member
thuway said:
Thief is 900p on Xbone. Carry on internet. I must head to the hospital, don't ban me Bish :(.
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if MS can keep pace at 900p then I'm ok with that...well, i actually don't plan to purchase a single multi-platform title on XB1 so maybe i'm not.
 
P

Project Alice

Banned
thuway said:
Thief is 900p on Xbone. Carry on internet. I must head to the hospital, don't ban me Bish :(.
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It's sad that it has come to this, but in some ways 900p is kind of OK to me now. Every time you guys break a story I'm here like "please don't be 720, please don't be 720" LOL

Is it 30 or 60?
 
S

simplythebest

Banned
The Flash said:
Maybe they're trying to find him in real life.
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sNZXkBv.png
 
T

TheDarkKnight774

Member
GAF is warping the next gen launches. I'm becoming more entertained by the launch drama, fallouts, twist & turns as things unfold leading up to the launch, then the actual console itself (which I have one preordered).

I can't even imagine what things will happen once the two systems launch and so close together. Will HW fail? What servers will crash or not work on updates. How will the OS's behave at the getgo, and then uncovering all the head to head cross gen comparisons.

Oh yea...and the games themselves
 
Y

Yoday

Member
stryke said:
A desperate MS could very well be an MS sans Xbox.
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That is what scares me. As it is the Xbox division is not profitable for MS, so if the Xbox One does not start profiting in a major way early on I could see them cutting the entire division. It is pretty clear that they are trying to market the Xbox One as an entertainment device rather than a gaming device. I imagine this is an attempt to try a different approach to profitability for the platform, and if it doesn't get the job done, then its game over. I don't get the feeling that anyone higher up at MS really cares if the Xbox brand sticks around, so I don't see much of a fight to keep it going. As long as the platform doesn't keep loosing money they will probably keep it around through the end of this next generation, but if it doesn't make MS a solid profit after three generations of trying, I don't see them trying a fourth time. Xbox is not in the same position as Nintendo and PlayStation. Gaming is Nintendo's entire business, and PlayStation is a major part of Sony's business. Xbox on the other hand, is a tiny insignificant portion of MS's business when you consider profits.

While I am not interested in the Xbox One, and have no intentions of buying one until it is in the $300 range with a solid library of released exclusives, I still want it to succeed. Competition drives the industry, and only having two players in the market, each with their own distinct markets, would be bad. I want MS to struggle just enough with the Xbox One that we don't have to do completely stupid shit like paying to access Netflix, Hulu, Skype and other similar services. The last few years MS has been all about how to make money through consumer exploitation with Xbox LIVE and advertising, and not by making things better for the paying customer. This needs to change, but I'm not sure how willing current MS leaders are to see that change happen. The shift in CEO next year could either be really good for Xbox, or really bad. One thing is for sure, I am waiting a while to see how things shake out for the Xbox One before investing any money in the platform.
 
dolabla

dolabla

Member
shinra-bansho said:
I didn't think resolutions of either Thief next-gen SKU was known.

But I don't think Thuway would have been as excited, for some reason, if it was 900p on both.
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Yep, I would think so. He probably wouldn't be acting like it's a big deal if 900p was also the resolution of the PS4 version. PS4's must be 1080p.
 
R

rrs

Member
oflaherty01 said:
He is saying what basically everyone has been saying. It is a struggle to figure out how to effectively and efficiently use the hardware. We see this with every single console release. His other predictions are much larger and slightly more obscure to normal inquiry (i.e. his initial prediction on power output from the esram). In addition. he says a work around will come up to overcome the power drop in the esram cycle. That is an odd way to put it, as it is very ambiguous. What does he mean by work around, something that exists within the cycle itself that developers can take advantage of, or something that they must work around in their coding by trying to time the cycles and output the most at the peaks in the cycles. The second would be very difficult in human controlled parts, as they could be traveling at a fast pace, or turning at a fast pace which would lead to high volume calls which can occur at any time during the esram cycle. Having this high volume call during a low point in the cycle leads to frame rate drop. This was seem during demanding points in Dead Rising 3 before they finally tuned it and got it locked to 30 fps.

I think the ease of coding for the ps4 is going to be a blessing and curse. It doesn't have as many tricks behind it, and with that, it may not lead to odd gains that could be found with the esram. The Xbox One, if timed right in cut scenes, can pump out a great deal of details in cut scenes very quickly. It must wait and read the timing just right to do this though, and with that it isn't as practical in the dynamism of player control. I have not looked to deep or thought to deeply in the category of the ps4, and so I am probably overlooking something key. The thing is though, it seems as though the steady flow rate of the ps4 will lead to better game dynamism while the Xbox One will focus more on the Cinematic quality within games. That seems to be were Microsoft wanted the Xbox One to drift towards with their reveal and their support for live action sequences/ live action series inspired by the games.

Ryse and Quantum Break are great examples of where Microsoft want to head. In Quantum Break we get these very cinematic scenes which I think will be the center of the game. The scenes will be played out at a set pace at first, which will allow all the rendering to be optimized for the ESRAM cycle, and for that information to be paged for recall when rewinding the scene. Additionally, the slower pace when rewinding will lead to less stress on the gpu, and the paused scenes/ interactive scenes will be more cpu intensive. The cinematic ideas are also present in Ryse, where they state that that is exactly what they were going for. Additionally, many of the games assets can be loaded in during the opening, in game cut scenes, which they can control the camera and the pace. This allows them to utilize the cycle of the ESRAM to the best of their abilities. Also, the slow down during "dynamic" combat is a cinematic choice in this game, rather than the cyclical choice in Quantum Break, as the assets are already loaded.

This is just my conjecture on how the ESRAM is currently being worked around, and how it may be worked around in the future. My background isn't in coding, but video games and technology are my passion. Take what I have said with a huge grain of salt, and feel free to criticize what I have said.
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I think that the ESRAM could be used to hold data that would change rapidly, more or less behind the scenes data rather than textures. There's also

Shpeshal_Ed said:
Not understanding how ESRAM is a handicap when devs have been dealing with it for 9 years or more on 360?

Or am I missing something?
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I

ironcreed

Banned
rjinaz said:
Honestly 900p doesn't bother me as much as others. It's not 1080p sure, but I think the games will look great and it's better than 720p which I find unacceptable for nextgen.
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Ryse looks amazing on a technical level period, so of course it will shine at 900p. Seeing how great it looks as a launch title should also ease worries. The Xbone will have some fantastic looking games.
 
E

eddfromtheriver

Banned
Foxix said:
Well... not exactly. The cell was stupid hard to utilize but if done properly you would see benefits above and beyond what was capable on competing hardware platforms. Even if devs become total masters of their domain with the esram and a magical work around is found, it's still going to underperform relative to the competition.
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A very good observation. Kudos to you fine sir/lady.
 
F

Finalizer

Member
Pretty much how most of us figured. Sounds like once MS sorts out that manual ESRAM cache management, it shouldn't be any harder to develop for than the 360.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
gketter said:
GAF is warping the next gen launches. I'm becoming more entertained by the launch drama, fallouts, twist & turns as things unfold leading up to the launch, then the actual console itself (which I have one preordered).

I can't even imagine what things will happen once the two systems launch and so close together. Will HW fail? What servers will crash or not work on updates. How will the OS's behave at the getgo, and then uncovering all the head to head cross gen comparisons.

Oh yea...and the games themselves
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the underwhelming nature of next gen has left a void, the hardware isn't terribly interesting, the software is iterative at best and PC has kinda ruined the party for everyone.

it's been filled by this, the real next gen.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
m0dus said:
Well, it's the difference between going, "you're wrong, and this is why.." And "lol n00b"

Really. If people approached discussions with the former attitude rather than the latter, we'd have far fewer locked threads these days. Truly.

Let me scratch out my point a bit more: I don't like the air of negativity people are leveling at each other lately over what should be an exciting time in our hobby, because it does little more than stifle the discussion. Call it a shot in the dark, but I won't define the PS4's success by the Xbox One's failures, or vice versa. If that's the goal, then you're wasting your money, whatever machine you buy.

...unless it's a PC.
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I don't think I've seen a post yet from you that I didn't like lol. Always calling for civility and more respectful discussion. I like it. I couldn't agree more.
 
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