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Rumored Chinese Forum Xbox720 specs: 8CoreCPU,8GB,HD8800GPU,W8,640GBHDD

B

BlackJace

Member
KKRT00 said:
Still, its nice thats 8 core design, because from tech standpoint it matters so much. We will finally have properly written games that uses standard multi core cpu and gpgpu to its limit, so it will scale amazingly with anything in PC space, especially with smth like it 2600k, that has 8 threads, but its so much faster :)



Yes, they do when You are comparing them to Sandy Bridge or even Phenoms.
Click to expand...

Threads are waaaay more important.
 
P

Phonomezer

Banned
outunderthestars said:
xbox360.jpg


We all know it is coming...
Click to expand...

And I will probably bite.
 
S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
Durante said:
Why?
- 8 Jaguar cores are smaller these days than the 360 CPU when it was released and far less power hungry
- 8 GB of DDR3 cost 35€ - at retail
- The GPU is mid-range from the naming. However, integrated eDRAM should raise costs a bit.
- A 640 GB laptop HDD could in fact be the most expensive single component, at ~50€ at retail right now.

Jaguar is so skinny that I'd have liked 16 :p

Don't get me wrong, 8 isn't that bad. Just ~5x Wii U in terms of CPU GFLOPs though, at 1.6 GHz.
Click to expand...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't compare the value of off-shelf products, especially RAM. These are usually custom-made and cost higher.
 
D

Durante

Member
BlackJace said:
Clock. Speeds. Don't. Mean. Shit.
Click to expand...
This. Is. Patently. Wrong. It's one thing to be wary of comparing clock speeds when you don't have information about other factors, such as IPC, pipeline length or branch penalties.

However, the persistent Jaguar rumours don't point to an IPC monster either. An i5-class CPU would be more effective per clock while also being clocked at (more than?) twice the frequency.


KKRT00 said:
Still, its nice thats 8 core design, because from tech standpoint it matters so much. We will finally have properly written games that uses standard multi core cpu and gpgpu to its limit, so it will scale amazingly with anything in PC space, especially with smth like it 2600k, that has 8 threads, but its so much faster :)
Click to expand...
I totally agree with this actually, 8 slow cores are more exciting architecture-wise than 4 fast cores. Still not nearly as exciting as Cell was though :p


shagg_187 said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't compare the value of off-shelf products, especially RAM. These are usually custom-made and cost higher.
Click to expand...
Well, every rumour points to the next XBox using just that off-the-shelf memory. That's why it has a respectable amount of it.
 
C

Corto

Member
DerZuhälter;46192914 said:
Don't see what people are getting excited about. 8 cores @ 1.6Ghz sounds like a travesty to me. Will be crushed by iPhone7/ SGalaxy5 the way mobile cpus are developing.
Click to expand...

Good thing it has 8GB RAM and a dedicated GPU.
 
R

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
DerZuhälter;46192914 said:
Don't see what people are getting excited about. 8 cores @ 1.6Ghz sounds like a travesty to me. Will be crushed by iPhone7/ SGalaxy5 the way mobile cpus are developing.
Click to expand...

LOL. :)
 
C

Can Crusher

Banned
Yeah the GPU will be custom. MS and Sony, their R&D teams (full of HW engineers) work directly with AMD to build something that is based on AMD tech, but is different in the end.

Xenos for example.

Edit:

Also, supposedly, isn't it going to be a split pool of ram? As in, it will include some amount of GDDr5, and edram too? (aside from ddr3/ddr4)
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
shagg_187 said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't compare the value of off-shelf products, especially RAM. These are usually custom-made and cost higher.
Click to expand...

You're right, you can't compare them, especially since more ram means higher board complexity. But retail means price mark up, and not the mass produced low cost parts that manufacturers pay for.

His point for that post is that DDR3 is as cheap is it'll probably get.
 
K

KKRT00

Member
ekim said:
No way. They will most definitely use custom stuff all around. These specs seem to be Devkit specs which use shelf stuff that match the custom silicon's performance.
Click to expand...

Custom design of off-shelf products. Any of the companies arent designing they own hardware pieces. So it can be 8870 without some double precision components or audio processing, but can has EDRAM added, but still like off-shelf product.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
All these rumours are lacking in specifics.

Presuming it's 16-way parallel per previous rumours it wouldn't be jaguar cores, though.

The GPU info is still too vague. I wonder when spec leakers will realise that just family affiliation is kind of meaningless.

(Also, I'm sort of a bit skeptical of rumours that talk about 8xxx given that it turns out that line is just a rebadging of 7xxx architecture chips, supposedly? 8xxx was a popular reference point in speculation because we thought that was 'next-gen', Sea Islands architecture, but turns out it's not...right?)
 
E

ekim

Member
KKRT00 said:
Custom design of off-shelf products. Any of the companies are designing they own hardware pieces. So it can be 8870 without some double precision components or audio processing, but can has EDRAM added, but still like off-shelf product.
Click to expand...

Can't argue
 
D

Durante

Member
BlackJace said:
Threads are waaaay more important.
Click to expand...
I don't really get where you're going with this. If you ask any programmer (particularly not a parallelism nut like me) whether they'd rather have 4 fast threads or 8 threads that are half as fast, they'll pick the former. It's much easier to use effectively. And Amdahl's law is a bitch.

gofreak said:
All these rumours are lacking in specifics.

Presuming it's 16-way parallel per previous rumours it wouldn't be jaguar cores, though.
Click to expand...
Well, if it's 8 steamroller modules that's an entirely different ballpark. I don't really think that's likely though.
 
S

syko de4d

Member
shagg_187 said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't compare the value of off-shelf products, especially RAM. These are usually custom-made and cost higher.
Click to expand...

yeahe but on the other side they make the same error with GPU Prices because in this price there are 1-3gb Fast RAM included. I think it balances out this way :)
 
K

Kinyou

Member
DoctorWho said:
I think $499 is realistic. Maybe they got $599.99 if Sony doesn't launch this year and they are the only kid on the block with a new console. Don't think that's a great idea though.
Click to expand...
Your thoughts worry me. Don't wont them to rush it out again like the 360 and have tons of rrods
 
T

tipoo

Banned
On the Jaguar rumors: There is NO IBM personal computer you can buy right now. If four way SMT is correct, AMD and even Intel have nothing like that, only IBMs Power7 does. It is possible then that just the dev kits have Jaguar, while the actual box will have the Power7. And that would very much be an IPC monster.
 
Comandr

Comandr

Member
outunderthestars said:
xbox360.jpg


We all know it is coming...
Click to expand...

This was actually a pretty good deal when it started. I believe that package bundle was going for $299 at the time of the promotion. At this price, the console and 2 years of XBL Gold would be $539, assuming you are paying monthly. So now with the new promotion, assuming you were going to be getting gold ANYWAY at a monthly rate, the console is only $458 after 2 years. Saving $200 up front also frees up a lot more room for games and accessories out the door.

That being said, I believe, also, at the time of this promotion, $299 was far too steep for such an old console, but being the leading console in sales for such a long time, why bother lowering the price when people are happy paying it?
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
megashock5 said:
I realized it includes Live for 2 years, but that comes to $460 total. Yikes.
Click to expand...

well, at the time the 4Gb kinect bundle was $300. Add $120 for two years of live, and an extended warranty and it really wasn't that bad of a deal as opposed to someone putting it on a credit card and getting hit with interest.

edit: beaten. :)
 
D

DieH@rd

Banned
gundamkyoukai said:
Specs don't sound bad and this not going to cost MS much to make .
Click to expand...

Oh it will, they want to shove everything in one bigass APU. We heard for a year now that they had abysmal yields and 3 largest chip-marker factories worked on it, all trying to fix the problems.
 
P

pestul

Member
Quixz said:
If the GPU is anywhere near 7970 it will melt faces!
Click to expand...
Just don't put it on your sub-woofer. I expect a 8850 class gpu with customizations. This will still be a beast when coding to metal. :O

I really hope we see 8GB of ram in the final system, but I highly doubt it.
 
S

syko de4d

Member
DoctorWho said:
I think $499 is realistic. Maybe they got $599.99 if Sony doesn't launch this year and they are the only kid on the block with a new console. Don't think that's a great idea though.
Click to expand...

i could build a PC myself with this speccs in a half year (when 88xx is out) for 600$ with the same power. I don´t see why the xbox8 should cost that much, MS pay much less as me for all the components.
 
S

SneakyStephan

Banned
Router said:
Anyone expecting an incremental upgrade is fucking retarded.

There. I said it.
Click to expand...

I think so too there is no way it'll be an incremental upgrade, you'd need a 4x increase just to get framerate and image quality out of the gutter for current gen games.. (20 fps 720 p and less for games like AC3/crysis 2 for example).

By 2014 (or late 2013) even a 10x upgrade is still pretty lame compared to pc hardware though.
 
O

opticalmace

Member
Comandr said:
This was actually a pretty good deal when it started. I believe that package bundle was going for $299 at the time of the promotion. At this price, the console and 2 years of XBL Gold would be $539, assuming you are paying monthly. So now with the new promotion, assuming you were going to be getting gold ANYWAY at a monthly rate, the console is only $458 after 2 years. Saving $200 up front also frees up a lot more room for games and accessories out the door.

That being said, I believe, also, at the time of this promotion, $299 was far too steep for such an old console, but being the leading console in sales for such a long time, why bother lowering the price when people are happy paying it?
Click to expand...

Saw that edit. :p

Also, $15/month * 24months = $360.
 
T

tipoo

Banned
DieH@rd said:
Oh it will, they want to shove everything in one bigass APU. We heard for a year now that they had abysmal yields and 3 largest chip-marker factories worked on it, all trying to fix the problems.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if it's truly between 500 and 600mm2 as rumored that is balls out crazy. I'd almost wonder if the APU route is worth it at that point over discreet chips, since if one part of the APU fails you have to throw out all that otherwise functional silicon.

And again, Jaguar cores are tiny and don't really fit into all of this, unless there is a lot of silicon doing dedicated functions like a physics processor? Even that doesn't use much space, nor does an audio processor or signal processor, dsp, etc. I'm still thinking IBM Power7 based CPU.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
tipoo said:
On the Jaguar rumors: There is NO IBM personal computer you can buy right now. If four way SMT is correct, AMD and even Intel have nothing like that, only IBMs Power7 does. It is possible then that just the dev kits have Jaguar, while the actual box will have the Power7. And that would very much be an IPC monster.
Click to expand...
A2 is four way SMT as well.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
shagg_187 said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't compare the value of off-shelf products, especially RAM. These are usually custom-made and cost higher.
Click to expand...

People said this over and over before Wii U specs finally came out, only to discover that Nintendo was literally using the slowest, cheapest RAM available.
 
C

Can Crusher

Banned
tipoo said:
On the Jaguar rumors: There is NO IBM personal computer you can buy right now. If four way SMT is correct, AMD and even Intel have nothing like that, only IBMs Power7 does. It is possible then that just the dev kits have Jaguar, while the actual box will have the Power7. And that would very much be an IPC monster.
Click to expand...

Simple answer....

No smt. Or...custom CPU too.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
DoctorWho said:
I think $499 is realistic. Maybe they got $599.99 if Sony doesn't launch this year and they are the only kid on the block with a new console. Don't think that's a great idea though.
Click to expand...
No platform holder is going to release a $599 system, or a $499 system for that matter.

The market resoundingly responded "No."

If either Sony or Microsoft do so, they do so at their peril and deserve to go down in flames.
 
Z

z0m3le

Banned
DieH@rd said:
No, AMD and Vidia often rebrand gpu cards for OEMs.

Desktop variants of 8800 and 8900 series will be new and improved ahitecture, very powerful, and fully HSA compatible. They will be released in Q2.
Click to expand...

HD 8800 OEM is DX 11.1, HD 7800 is DX 11... there are small differences to these cards that amount to bios updates and clock speed changes, but it is more than just simply calling HD 7000 series cards HD 8000 series cards.
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
syko de4d said:
i could build a PC myself with this speccs in a half year (when 88xx is out) for 600$ with the same power. I don´t see why the xbox8 should cost that much, MS pay much less as me for all the components.
Click to expand...

Aren't the 8800 series cards supposed to run about $250 a piece when they come out?
 
K

KillerMan91

Member
Dynopia said:
Some people here think it's perfectly doable, some like you think it'd cost a fortune. I guess by that nobody has a clue how much it'll cost.

Still, the incurred $2b? loss on 360 before going into profit, (minus RROD $1B) that's without the original Xbox propping up the division.

They'll be able to sustain losses.
Click to expand...

Well as we are talking about Microsoft they could sell these with $100 price tag and still make money because of windows monopoly printing them money. Different thing is that is it financially wise. Even if you can do something it doesn't mean you do it as the purpose of the company is the maximize profits. I just don't think that razerblade model is the most profitable model in gaming industry anymore. At least in the scale of X360 and PS3.
 
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