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Metro Last Light dev: 'Wii U has horrible, slow CPU' [Up: DICE dev comments]
- Thread starter PrivateRyan
- Start date
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Third party companies tend to create new IPs at the start of a generation. Nobody is upset that Nintendo keeps making Mario/Zelda games the problem is theyvdontbreally make new stuff. Only very rarely.
You do realize that of the games I listed, only Assassin's Creed is one gen old, right?
GregLombardi
Member
Typical Nintendo strategy. Old hardware, new way to play.
Keeps costs down, and is a safe strategy.
Keeps costs down, and is a safe strategy.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Typical Nintendo strategy. Old hardware, new way to play.
Keeps costs down, and is a safe strategy.
Well, I don't know as according to many here, it's a huge gamble.
Little Green Yoda
Member
That was their goal with the Wii as well. Which didn't turn out okay (in the context of third party support) because as much hardware as the Wii sold, it was still less than the combined PS360/PC userbases. Making a game that could be ported to three platforms was clearly more enticing than developing for just one platform for a lot of third parties.Third party games don't have to be ports. 3rd parties can develop for the hardware. Maybe Nintendo didn't want a port machine
Reggie: Sir, I just looked over Wii U's specs.
Iwata: And ?
Reggie: Well, they seem to suck.
Iwata: What do you mean ?
Reggie: Were kind of using a lot of underwhelming components here if my calculations are correct. Fans are going to b seriously questioning if Wii U will follow in Wii's footsteps in getting crummy third-party support, assuming it an handle next-gen support at all. I mean, we do we even know if Wii U can support UE4 ?
Iwata: Wii U is powerful enough. Trust me. Miyamoto, what do think about Wii U's specifications ?
Miyamoto: *playing with Pikmin doll* Their fine.
Reggie: Sir, Miyamoto just said that without looking at the specs sheet! Why are we taking another big gamble again? Nintendo underestimated third-party support on Wii and now were doing it again just for the sake of having a machine that offers a different experience because of the controller. We're probably going to lose out on core gamers again and it's going to be difficult to recapture the expanded audience.
Iwata: Reggie, you need to stop worrying. Besides, we have an HD machine. Fans will be happy. We have Smash Bros and Bayonetta 2. Fans will be happy. Hey, Miyamoto, do you want to go out for some ice cream ?
Miyamoto: Sure
Reggie: Can I come ?
Iwata : No. Go back to Redmond.
Myamoto: *smiles at Reggie*
Iwata: And ?
Reggie: Well, they seem to suck.
Iwata: What do you mean ?
Reggie: Were kind of using a lot of underwhelming components here if my calculations are correct. Fans are going to b seriously questioning if Wii U will follow in Wii's footsteps in getting crummy third-party support, assuming it an handle next-gen support at all. I mean, we do we even know if Wii U can support UE4 ?
Iwata: Wii U is powerful enough. Trust me. Miyamoto, what do think about Wii U's specifications ?
Miyamoto: *playing with Pikmin doll* Their fine.
Reggie: Sir, Miyamoto just said that without looking at the specs sheet! Why are we taking another big gamble again? Nintendo underestimated third-party support on Wii and now were doing it again just for the sake of having a machine that offers a different experience because of the controller. We're probably going to lose out on core gamers again and it's going to be difficult to recapture the expanded audience.
Iwata: Reggie, you need to stop worrying. Besides, we have an HD machine. Fans will be happy. We have Smash Bros and Bayonetta 2. Fans will be happy. Hey, Miyamoto, do you want to go out for some ice cream ?
Miyamoto: Sure
Reggie: Can I come ?
Iwata : No. Go back to Redmond.
Myamoto: *smiles at Reggie*
metalslimer
Member
Well, I don't know as according to many here, it's a huge gamble.
The problem is that it's not a safe strategy because they are taking a loss on the hardware. If they were making a nice profit they could just coast, but selling at a loss is a huge risk if the hardware doesn't take off. Nintendo is not set up to take continual losses which is why they don't typically sell at a loss.
I'm seriously losing confidence in Iwata's judgement.
Well he was behind the 250 dollar 3DS debacle, but we should wait to see how Wii U is actually selling before saying the decisions made were wrong.
Dictator93
Member
To be fair, the original Metro ran like crap on powerful hardware so maybe these guys aren't the best source for analysis. Still, the overall negativity is disconcerting.
to be fair... Metro was doing a lot of stuff that most games do not do...
See you again in 3 hours!My Gamepad is still charging.
IHaveCandy
Banned
And Sony has made lots of new IPs. Infamous, Uncharted, Last of Us, MAG, Warhawk/Starhawk, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, Heavy Rain, Beyond, Resistance, LittleBigPlanet, Mod Nation Racers, PSASBR, plus lots of new IP PSN games.Difference is you buy a Nintendo console for Nintendo games, and Nintendo fans are always pointing to Nintendo developers for the console. Much bigger onus on Nintendo developed games. So when someone says Nintendo games are getting stale, few to no new IP's or originality it carries more weight.
If you want to ignore the original comment that started that and go deeper though I think the bigger showing of importance is the difference of this strategy in console if MS or Sony released a Wii-U. Without the "Nintendo games" there to fall back on with the console how do you think the reaction to a Wii-U type console released by Sony or MS would have been compared to this? Third parties mean much much more to those companies hence why they are bending over backwards for third party requests for hardware.
Nintendo can weather this third party storm on 1st party titles alone, they have already with previous consoles. Brings us back to the original comment of new IP's from Nintendo developers. They bought Monolith, which was good on them, but when people say new IP's from Nintendo they are really saying new IP's from the big M. And the only one that springs to mind from Wii was Wii Music (Wii Sports?). Mario, Zelda and Metroid yes thats what people want and expect but to keep your brand fresh and energized you have to get something new in there.
Why can't Nintendo do this? Sony is capable of making new IPs while also sequelizing older franchises.
Rollo Lawson
Banned
See you again in 3 hours!
burn
I do see your point, believe me. My argument, basically, is that this is the problem...That was their goal with the Wii as well. Which didn't turn out okay (in the context of third party support) because as much hardware as the Wii sold, it was still less than the combined PS360/PC userbases. Making a game that could be ported to three platforms was clearly more enticing than developing for just one platform for a lot of third parties.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Yes, critical feedback/honest logical opinions = "trolling".
Hilarious.
When your first statement in response is "lol really," it's hard to take that as "critical feedback/honest logical opinions." That's just the way conversation works.
So saying "the system isn't built for people on GAF..." isn't implying that power is something that only gamers like the ones on GAF would care about?
If so, why would you even make that statement?
Because GAF wasn't just complaining about the power. That statement reaches much further than that. Take, for instance, the "Nintendoland is garbage" thread today. Or, take a look at the most popular third-party games on the Wii and the genres they're in. Do you honestly think those match up well with GAF?
Nintendo hasn't been built around making games for most on GAF in a decade or more. GAF's userbase is mostly built around people who enjoy traditional gaming. Look at the outcry against motion controllers on here. Wii clearly wasn't built for them and clearly wasn't accepted by them.
That statement had nothing to do with power.
Again, people need to understand that Nintendo has moved on from being solely a traditional gaming company. They're much more interested in providing other ways to play.
metalslimer
Member
See you again in 3 hours!
God damn lol.....
Why can't Nintendo do this? Sony is capable of making new IPs while also sequelizing older franchises.
Because Sony wishes they had IPs with the selling powers of Nintendo. Which is why they keep making new franchises to try and reach mass success. Polyphony hasn't made another IP since GT took off. Same thing applies with a bunch of Nintendo studios.
See you again in 3 hours!
lol relentless
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
The problem is that it's not a safe strategy because they are taking a loss on the hardware. If they were making a nice profit they could just coast, but selling at a loss is a huge risk if the hardware doesn't take off. Nintendo is not set up to take continual losses which is why they don't typically sell at a loss.
But don't you think there is a method to this "madness"???
Or do you think they are being stingy and stupid???
I think something is up and we're not going to have a clear picture for some time.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
You do realize that of the games I listed, only Assassin's Creed is one gen old, right?
and you realize that is only a small portion of the games that have started this generation right? it's a shame you didn't list mass effect, bioshock, dead space, gears of war, uncharted, infamous, littlebigplanet, alan wake, borderlands, portal and many others.
snowdog1971
Banned
So it shouldn't have as much trouble porting 720/PS4 games?
Because if its going to have trouble getting next gen games, current gen games, and last gen games.... oooh boy :/
Thanks to Nintendo's surprising forward thinking with their choice of architecture it's going to be a great deal easier for developers to port games between all 3 next gen consoles than porting to and from the U, PS3 and 360.
So it shouldn't have as much trouble porting 720/PS4 games?
Wii U will feature the very best versions of multi-plat games. It just has some trouble running UE3, UE4 shouldn't be a problem and it'll run UE5 at like 120 fps.
Yeah credit to that OnQ guy, he had it right when he said souped up Broadway x 3. I suppose no one could believe that Nintendo would cheap out that much.
Thanks for noticing I don't get the credit I deserve around here after all the info I have brought to neogaf before anyone else they still had the nerve to Jr me without ever telling me why. SMH
to be fair... Metro was doing a lot of stuff that most games do not do...
Their lighting engine is outclassed only by BF3 and Crysis 2/3.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
See you again in 3 hours!
I'll wait for buttons any day;]
(knew that was coming though)
metalslimer
Member
But don't you think there is a method to this "madness"???
Or do you think they are being stingy and stupid???
I think something is up and we're not going to have a clear picture for some time.
Well, I'm sure Iwata thinks the gamepad will make the wii U very successful. If Wii U fails to really take off and they have to eat continual losses I don't think there is a master "plan" in motion. Like I said, talking about their decisions in a broader sense can't be done until the sales numbers come in for the first few months.
As I did not buy the Wii U to play multiplatform titles, this doesn't bother me in any way. The system is what it is, and it still offers gameplay possibilities beyond that of the other systems, so I'm not terribly concerned with raw horsepower at this point. I always have my PC for that.
Freezie KO
Banned
Seems like it's the same strategy from Wii then. Oh well.
Touche, it's true. Still again, this doesn't excuse the way 3rd parties have been treating Nintendo for a while now.
Well for the past 15 years or so, Nintendo has made it easy for 3rd parties to not treat them well. N64 with its cartridges, GameCube not selling well at all, and the Wii being under-powered on top of it having a completely different control scheme.
Ubisoft got with the program, dedicated resources and they were pretty successful with Wii... You dont have to port everything to make money
True.
Schlachtor
Banned
Why anyone would play Metro on anything but a PC is beyond me.
That's not really the problem here.
SMOKED!See you again in 3 hours!
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
See you again in 3 hours!
LOL
lwilliams3
Member
Yes, I think that was my conclusion as well.Oh man, the Wii U seems like a total flip for developers used to porting games to PS3. The 360 was very balanced, it seems, while the PS3 always gave developers issues as a result of its strong, but bizarre, CPU architecture combined with a slow GPU. The Wii U seems to offer a much faster GPU than the PS3 along with a much slower CPU.
Neuromancer
Member
You're on a fucking roll today, hahaSee you again in 3 hours!
See you again in 3 hours!
Dang.
I don't like PC gaming. I don't like the idea of always having to upgrade cards and since I keep my PC separate from my home entertainment center, the idea of having to be tied to a computer desk to play a game on a small(ish) screen with ho-hum audio doesn't appeal to me.
None of those are issues. You don't have to constantly upgrade cards (many of us just simply like doing so to take advantage of super-sampling, 120Hz, 3D, etc...). You can plug your PC in to your TV and a large sound system. Your PC gaming experience is what you make it.
Sexually Aggressive Uncle
Member
See you again in 3 hours!
Awesome.
IHaveCandy
Banned
You do realize you willingly ignored a ton of new third party IPs, right?You do realize that of the games I listed, only Assassin's Creed is one gen old, right?
Red Dead Redemption
LA Noire
Saints Row
Bioshock
Lost Planet
Dead Space
Enslaved
Gears of War
Crysis
Too Human
Mirror's Edge
Demon/Dark Souls
Army of Two
BlazBlue
Dance Central
Etc Etc
The games that are a success get sequals. Do third parties make a lot of sequals? Yes, but try also make at least more than one new IP every other generation, unlike Nintendo.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
and you realize that is only a small portion of the games that have started this generation right? it's a shame you didn't list mass effect, bioshock, dead space, gears of war, uncharted, infamous, littlebigplanet, alan wake, borderlands, portal and many others.
You do realize you willingly ignored a ton of new third party IPs, right?
Red Dead Redemption
LA Noire
Saints Row
Bioshock
Lost Planet
Dead Space
Enslaved
Gears of War
Crysis
Too Human
Mirror's Edge
Demon/Dark Souls
Army of Two
BlazBlue
Dance Central
Etc Etc
The games that are a success get sequals. Do third parties make a lot of sequals? Yes, but try also make at least more than one new IP every other generation, unlike Nintendo.
It's also a shame that people see Nintendo release a Mario game or two and completely forget they also created/published Xenoblade, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Rhythm Heaven, Zangeki no Reginleiv, Wii ____, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Batallion Wars, Another Code etc. Not bad for a single company where you listed multiple.
Look up "selective memory" in the dictionary and you'll find "NeoGAF"
Nintendo only have themselves to blame.
What a disaster.
What's that clapping sound I hear? Oh its Iwata high fiving everyone at Nintendo HQ. Good job penny-pinching Iwata.
Keep milking those characters, Nintendo. This guy will lap it up.
It's pretty easy to do when the milk tastes so damn good!
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Bought my PC in 2009 and the graphics card cost $140 and 3 years later it's still going strong. It could probably last until Fall 2013 assuming the 720 has a few multi-plat launch games that aren't current gen ports. So we're talking about a 4 year lifespan on a, at the time, slightly above middle-end $140 card. Not bad...I don't like PC gaming. I don't like the idea of always having to upgrade cards
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Nintendo only have themselves to blame.
What a disaster.
They've even admitted as much in one of their Iwata Asks interviews.
Perfect post.
Nintendo is not in it to push graphics. They have made this clear. They want to release an affordable console which allows you to play games in ways other consoles can't. They tried the hardware route with GCN and failed miserably. Anyone expecting the WiiU to compete against Ps4/xbox720 is delusional.
WiiU + PC for me. I think that combo will keep me happy.
The console is over $300 yet performs at basically the same level as systems that have been out for over 5 years. Even the thing that sets them apart from the other consoles is outdated compared to the touchscreen technology that is available in just about every device nowadays.
Warm Machine
Member
I was actually really hoping for a 2x Xbox 360 level of power. A Wii U would probably be sitting in my house right now if that were the case. Hell, just get current gen games in 1080p 30fps would have been enough to consider an upgrade.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Plenty of Sony franchises are a success. Look at Uncharted. Yet they don't stop Naughty Dog from making something new and fresh.God damn lol.....
Because Sony wishes they had IPs with the selling powers of Nintendo. Which is why they keep making new franchises to try and reach mass success. Polyphony hasn't made another IP since GT took off. Same thing applies with a bunch of Nintendo studios.
Then damn this is bad news :/Didn't they optimize their engine a lot this time around?
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Unless you are a really big Nintendo fan, I would never recommend having a Nintendo console and nothing more.
Even during the SNES years?
What's that clapping sound I hear? Oh its Iwata high fiving everyone at Nintendo HQ. Good job penny-pinching Iwata.
Exactly.
I understand it's been built to a certain cost but that was the best they could do? Was it worth it saving $5 on the CPU and $5 on the RAM?
I'd pay an extra £50 if it meant a Wii-U that is 4xPS3 power levels.