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Alex Connolly · Sep 23, 2017

derFeef said:
The generated maps are really good imo. They dont give the feeling of procedural maps in my opinion. People should maybe get off their high horse and not lump together every game that has a certain feature.

Yeah, I think the condensed nature of City of Brass' alleyways and courtyards, littered with traps and pits, helps to ameliorate the usual ennui associated with proc-gen. Proc-gen works best when pressurised under mechanics. Here? It's really good. Nothing feels artificial.

BloodOmenPT · Sep 23, 2017

So, they are making a procedurally generated FPS Prince of Persia, but with a much slower pace? Not really sure what to think...

Alex Connolly · Sep 23, 2017

BloodOmenPT said:
So, they are making a procedurally generated FPS Prince of Persia, but with a much slower pace? Not really sure what to think...

Aesthetically? Yeah, I guess? But it's more like first-person Spelunky, with the comparison more than skin-deep. Very limited health, timed missions, explore for treasure or speed-run to the exit. Combat is pretty rudimentary, but it gets the job done right now, and there's actually some good variation in primary weapon and whip design.

SomTervo · Sep 23, 2017

How did I miss this news.

Not very Bioshock at all but do we really want to pigeonhole Levine into making Bioshocks forever?

Looks great.

Bizzquik said:
Ex Bioshock Devs Announce....
"....an Arabian Nights-themed procedurally generated FPS....challenging you to see just how far you can get through its permadeath streets."

Those seem like two utterly incongruous statements.
* Bioshock = character-driven narrative in an immersive world space
* "procedurally generated" and "permadeath" sound like the antithesis of those things.

...Its like the devs went to work for Ken Levine, hated his attention to world-building and story-telling, but said "man, this mediocre, barely-passable combat is amazing."

I think they're just keeping their cards close to their chest.

We know that all the early prototypes focussed on 'how to build a procedural narrative', so I'm quite sure this game will feature procedural or 'modular' narratives.

Like, he's on record countless times saying he wants to explore stories and narratives as a gameplay concept, and he's the director of the studio.

They just won't want to spoil anything.

Alex Connolly said:
Aesthetically? Yeah, I guess? But it's more like first-person Spelunky, with the comparison more than skin-deep. Very limited health, timed missions, explore for treasure or speed-run to the exit. Combat is pretty rudimentary, but it gets the job done right now, and there's actually some good variation in primary weapon and whip design.

The bolded is EXACTLY what I was thinking.

And it's an excellent idea.

PaulloDEC · Sep 23, 2017

derFeef said:
The generated maps are really good imo. They dont give the feeling of procedural maps in my opinion. People should maybe get off their high horse and not lump together every game that has a certain feature.

Alex Connolly said:
Yeah, I think the condensed nature of City of Brass' alleyways and courtyards, littered with traps and pits, helps to ameliorate the usual ennui associated with proc-gen. Proc-gen works best when pressurised under mechanics. Here? It's really good. Nothing feels artificial.

Yup, I've got complaints about CoB, but the procedurally generated levels aren't one of them. I've only played a couple of hours, but the levels have always been interesting and varied thus far.

Alex Connolly said:
Yeah, a few extra elements wouldn't go astray. A slide would be nice, just to up the flow of combat. Double-edged sword, as you'd need to check you weren't skidding into a spike-trap after stun-tripping an enemy. I've actually found the mantling to be pretty damn responsive. Limbering around corners moated by traps and pits, with enemies on my tail...always seemed to find decent purchase to turn on a dime. Feels good.

I don't mind the mantling, though I'm not always sure whether it'll work on certain ledges... I guess I'll get used to it with more play.

ArtHands · Sep 23, 2017

theWB27 said:
What's wrong with rogue titles?

Its not an triple A single player adventure game, thats what its wrong

Alex Connolly · Sep 23, 2017

PaulloDEC said:
I don't mind the mantling, though I'm not always sure whether it'll work on certain ledges... I guess I'll get used to it with more play.

It's most visible when you're working around the balustrades of courtyards that have lower levels and hemmed by spike traps etc. At speed, I've been able to sort of corner about the onion domes atop the walls, which is great when you're kiting a mob about and need to hose them with the environment.

Funnily enough, I've found myself use far less of the actual weapons in recent runs, preferring to skip about, heaving pots and getting creative with the kiting. But as far as the weapons go? I'm finding I enjoy the simplicity. Lots of big bladed sweeps stepping in, jumping back and flanking, letting the second cross-cut do its work.

There's a lot to like.

SomTervo · Sep 23, 2017

Wait, how the heck are you guys playing this now?

edit: holy shit it's on early access

SomTervo · Sep 23, 2017

Sorry for DP-bump but this is now on Early Access - shouldn't it get its own thread?

Also I'm absolutely loving it.

The first person Spelunky/Indiana Jones I never knew I wanted.

Incredible.

Of course it's clunky but it's early access, and still more polished and complete than the vast majority of EA games are at first build.

Alex Connolly said:
It's most visible when you're working around the balustrades of courtyards that have lower levels and hemmed by spike traps etc. At speed, I've been able to sort of corner about the onion domes atop the walls, which is great when you're kiting a mob about and need to hose them with the environment.

Funnily enough, I've found myself use far less of the actual weapons in recent runs, preferring to skip about, heaving pots and getting creative with the kiting. But as far as the weapons go? I'm finding I enjoy the simplicity. Lots of big bladed sweeps stepping in, jumping back and flanking, letting the second cross-cut do its work.

There's a lot to like.

The only thing I'm missing is a quick-step for dodging or SOME sort of defence - even if just 'shoving' during an enemy attack pushes them off balance.

Totally agreed re improvisation - it's so intuitive and so perfectly designed, whipping explosives or grabbing pots and throwing them while yanking another enemy's feet out...

Absolutely love it and it's first-run EA

gypsygib · Sep 23, 2017

I like what I'm seeing.

SomTervo · Sep 23, 2017

gypsygib said:
I like what I'm seeing.

You can play it, it's on early access.

Screw it, I'll make a thread later if i have time

Alex Connolly · Sep 23, 2017

SomTervo said:
You can play it, it's on early access.

Screw it, I'll make a thread later if i have time

I think it deserves a fresh thread. Drop the Bioshock lineage - it's a lightning rod for unnecessary and meaningless commentary - and focus on what makes it fresh.

PaulloDEC · Sep 24, 2017

Against all odds I made it through the third area and earned myself a permanent portal to the fourth (no need to play through the first three to reach it from now on).

There's definitely a great game here. The loop of pushing through each trap-filled area while resisting the urge to waste precious time hoarding golden trinkets is compelling, and the Arabian Nights aesthetic looks great and feels fresh.

I'd say the biggest weakness right now is the combat; it quickly degenerates into "whip, slash, whip, slash, repeat until dead". There's added variety when you've got a lot of environmental hazards around, but the levels are often very cluttered, which means you don't always have a lot of room to line up those kinds of kills. The weapons you buy from vendors seem neat, but they can be expensive and not always easy to find, so I'm usually just armed with my default gear.

Really looking forward to seeing how the game evolves over the EA period. There's a lot of good feedback being posted on the forums, so hopefully the devs are listening.

EDIT: Hard to get good screenshots given the frantic nature of the game, but I really like the way the fourth area looks.

derFeef · Sep 24, 2017

Alex Connolly said:
I think it deserves a fresh thread. Drop the Bioshock lineage - it's a lightning rod for unnecessary and meaningless commentary - and focus on what makes it fresh.

I support this!

SomTervo · Sep 24, 2017

Right, making a thread now.

PaulloDEC said:
Against all odds I made it through the third area and earned myself a permanent portal to the fourth (no need to play through the first three to reach it from now on).

Wait... is that what the purple portal in the opening area is all about???

How do you use it? I was walking into it, back and forth...

PaulloDEC · Sep 24, 2017

SomTervo said:
Right, making a thread now.

Wait... is that what the purple portal in the opening area is all about???

How do you use it? I was walking into it, back and forth...

I think you just walk up and hit the interact button (I believe E by default, same key used to open doors up pick up treasure).

SomTervo · Sep 24, 2017

Oh yeah, and thread is made.

PaulloDEC said:
I think you just walk up and hit the interact button (I believe E by default, same key used to open doors up pick up treasure).

Yep, I never noticed that popping up - perhaps the prompt glitched or I just never noticed it.

Time to dive back in...

Weltall Zero · Sep 24, 2017

Gator86 said:
Super depressing. Love Bioshock but there's no quicker way to torpedo my interest than adding rogue____ to it.

Marcel said:

Bluth54 said:
Same here. I was excited when I saw the thread title but lost all interest when I saw it was rogue like.

Coxy100 said:
Yup - same here. Such a shame.

TheSpaceBetween said:
Anything procedurally generated immediately kills my interest.

Maintenance said:
Great, another one, pass.

faridmon said:
Rogue...

Me: I am out

Spartancarver said:
Oh.

Pass.

Brerlappin said:
procedurally generated
roguelite
FPS

nah im good thanks

Phife Dawg said:
Damn, got excited for a minute there.

Not everyone enjoys the grind and procedurally generated levels.

Booker.DeWitt said:
such a waste of human resources

BasilZero said:
You got me at bioshock devs but lost me at rogue/generated levels/etc

:/

Bedameister said:
notlikethis.gif

Pretty bummed about this.

Stealthcobra said:
My feelings exactly.. Rogue genre seems like a way to just hide how shallow the game really is.. And also usually includes a weak story

HazySaiyan said:
"Roguelite"

Looks pretty janky as well, especially considering the release date

Fbh said:
Roguelite and procedurally generated.

Two words that instantly make me lose interest in any game.

Art style looks pretty cool though.

DocSeuss said:
"FPS" *gets excited*

"roguelite" *loses excitement*

Then I saw the footage and I'm like... well, dang, it looks like it plays good... Still, roguelites kind of universally suck.

Mr.Deadshot said:
Stopped at rogue...

Marvel said:
Nah I'll pass.

Voidance said:
My thoughts exactly.

BTA said:
It's kinda bizarre to keep seeing devs from Irrational announce games where their pitch immediately kills the slightest bit of excitement that might generate.

Gator86 said:
Wow, thanks to the bump I saw "ex-bioshock devs announce" and got hype before I finished the rest and got deflated by this a second time. Woof.

Kikorin said:
- Oh cool, from Bioshock devs!

*Procedurally generated*

-

Jombie said:

Naudyboy16 said:
Same boat as you, it peaked my interest and then completely lost it.

Bloodporne said:
Really like the visual style and ideas behind the basic gameplay here, but yeah...

procedurally generated, permadeath, roguelite/like =

Thanks everyone for your varied and thoughtful contributions, we really couldn't have done without all of your input. I'll now proceed to post in every single FPS and sports game's thread explaining how I don't like those; I'm sure everyone involved will find that a fascinating read.

Bloodporne · Sep 25, 2017

Weltall Zero said:
Thanks everyone for your varied and thoughtful contributions, we really couldn't have done without all of your input. I'll now proceed to post in every single FPS and sports game's thread explaining how I don't like those; I'm sure everyone involved will find that a fascinating read.

Any time dude, any time!

Triggerhappytel · Sep 25, 2017

Gator86 said:
Super depressing. Love Bioshock but there's no quicker way to torpedo my interest than adding rogue____ to it.

Sadly, I agree. I'm interested in new stuff from anyone who had a hand in Bioshock, but would much prefer hand-crafted levels rather than procedural stuff. Nonetheless, thanks to some of the positive comments above I will keep an eye out on this one when it comes to PS4.

Spoo · Sep 25, 2017

Nabbed this today.

I really like it. Like, the whole Ex-BioShock devs thing is a liability, I think, because it's probably easy to read that, see this game, and try to draw connections where absolutely none exist, but moreso because this game is really kind of an anti-BioShock to begin with. Proc-gen, next-to-no story, and rogue-like/light.

So, given I *usualllly* hate those 3 things, the games Arabian setting and colorful graphics had me intrigued, and I'm really happy I picked this up. Initially, I was a bit put off, as it's *very* hard to get started with, but, like all these kinds of games, you're rewarding for playing smart, taking calculated risks, and getting just a little lucky with those RNG drops. Super fun game, but *very* pricey for what is there so far, I feel. 15-20 would have been a better angle.

I'm at the first check-point of the game, hope to get to the second next time I turn it on.

Alex Connolly · Sep 25, 2017

Spoo said:
Nabbed this today.

I really like it. Like, the whole Ex-BioShock devs thing is a liability, I think, because it's probably easy to read that, see this game, and try to draw connections where absolutely none exist, but moreso because this game is really kind of an anti-BioShock to begin with. Proc-gen, next-to-no story, and rogue-like/light.

So, given I *usualllly* hate those 3 things, the games Arabian setting and colorful graphics had me intrigued, and I'm really happy I picked this up. Initially, I was a bit put off, as it's *very* hard to get started with, but, like all these kinds of games, you're rewarding for playing smart, taking calculated risks, and getting just a little lucky with those RNG drops. Super fun game, but *very* pricey for what is there so far, I feel. 15-20 would have been a better angle.

I'm at the first check-point of the game, hope to get to the second next time I turn it on.

Nice! Bring further thoughts into the new thread!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1437717

pa22word · Sep 25, 2017

Triggerhappytel said:
Sadly, I agree. I'm interested in new stuff from anyone who had a hand in Bioshock, but would much prefer hand-crafted levels rather than procedural stuff. Nonetheless, thanks to some of the positive comments above I will keep an eye out on this one when it comes to PS4.

At the end of the day there isn't money there to make a Bioshock level game at an indie studio. It just doesn't exist. Even in KS money like Shenmue got you'd be walking a fine line to even get it done. Meanwhile, System Shock remake barely scraped by a million and Consortium The Tower failed outright.

Thus people coming in here and posting dumbass gifs and shitposting are annoying because they're complaining essentially about it not being something it never had the potential of being in the first place. If you want a game like Bioshock, then next time a KS comes out put up Bioshock money. No? You don't like KS? You want AAA quality? Then shut up and quit shitting these threads up.

Alienous · Sep 25, 2017

Weltall Zero said:
Thanks everyone for your varied and thoughtful contributions, we really couldn't have done without all of your input. I'll now proceed to post in every single FPS and sports game's thread explaining how I don't like those; I'm sure everyone involved will find that a fascinating read.

Why didn't you quote the "I'm intrigued" posts too? Or are only positive reactions wanted?

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Ex BioShock devs announce FPS roguelite City Of Brass - Steam 2017, Consoles 2018

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