H_Prestige
Banned
Snuggler said:
I still remember it. It was literally just a crap website you had to open with the ps3 browser. You could barely see anything and it was slow as shit. Making it a native app was a HUGE upgrade.
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Sony: Playstation Network Is Unprofitable
- Thread starter Mr_Brit
- Start date
I still remember it. It was literally just a crap website you had to open with the ps3 browser. You could barely see anything and it was slow as shit. Making it a native app was a HUGE upgrade.
UntoldDreams
Member
Mr_Brit said:
I can read Japanese you know. Are you really telling me what the article which I read is saying?
I'm clarifying for your benefit. You can refuse to thank me its ok.
Sipowicz said:
That's because it's based on the PS2's online structure, which was fucking terrible and right before XBL on the OG X-box blew them out of the water.
PS3 online is much better, but not quite there yet. Next generation they may be on par or slightly below XBL.
Bet Sony regret saying stupid things like free multiplayer is a first amendment right of whatever stupid thing they said.
They should have bit the bullet and started charging for online ages ago. People will pay. They pay for Live. They'll pay for PSN.
Great job, Sony
They should have bit the bullet and started charging for online ages ago. People will pay. They pay for Live. They'll pay for PSN.
Yeah, Sony haven't got a clue. As a PS3 owner though it's great to see Sony laden PS Plus with unessential features so as I don't have to pay anything.CrunchyFrog said:
Great job, Sony
Mr_Brit said:
Did you read your own OP? Quote, "However, he expects the PSN to start making money in the following fiscal year. According to the report, PSN sales nearly doubled in the closing fiscal year, reaching 36 billion yen. Looking forward three years, Hirai expects revenue to increase nearly tenfold, to 300 billion yen."
that sounds like profitable to me (w/o charging a fee)
Mr_Brit said:
Xbox live is what proved that a paid online service is what you need to make an extra profit.
I mean dont get me wrong, im all for companies making some more money to invest in more and better games or whatever, but playing online is by now a necessity, not a luxury.
I AM JOHN!
Banned
Well that's kind of a misleadingly inflammatory thread title.
Augemitbutter
Member
they won't charge for online. Sony knows you can't screw EU and JP consumers by charging for simple online play.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Snuggler said:
it was horrendous.
you seriously didn;t miss anything
what are they including in this? the cost of developing psn content? overheads?
#
sounds like something's wrong if they aren't making a profit from the publisher royalties?
how can they be taking 36billion yen and making a loss on it?
does valve charge for steam.... no... and yet they make a mint.... so somethings wrong with the business model here
Mr_Brit said:
Steam. GFWL? (chuckle)
I'm not sure how Steam is less unified than PSN, at all. It seems to do everything that PSN does, and then some (cross game chat). I also wasn't aware that Sony doesn't make money from game sales.
If Sony goes pay to play next gen, what's to stop me from getting the next Xbox over a PS4? You can't count purely on your exclusives.
What costs?
yurinka
Member
I can't remember where it was posted (I think it was in a E3 conf), but at least once they revealed the number of items sold, percentage of active users and average time of each play session. And they were great numbers.Majine said:
I work in successful games with the same business model (free+microtransactions). Most of the people doesn't pay, but a small portion do. And if you have several millions of users, a tiny portion of them (called 'whales') will spend some hundreds or thousands dollars in your game.
UntoldDreams
Member
The context of the article is stating that due to all the expansion they have put into PSN including their Video, Music, Games, E-book... They have yet to be profitable.
Anything else being said is not relevant to the original article and statement by Kaz.
You want to POO-POO on something at least make sure the original article is understood.
Anything else being said is not relevant to the original article and statement by Kaz.
You want to POO-POO on something at least make sure the original article is understood.
AranhaHunter
Banned
This is the original report (in Japanese):
http://jp.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idJPnTK049554820101222
This is the google translation:
http://translate.google.com/transla...om/article/companyNews/idJPnTK049554820101222
Is that saying that for FY 2010 (FY ending in March 2011), they'll have sales of approximately 72 billion yen and still not be profitable? Wow if so.
http://jp.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idJPnTK049554820101222
This is the google translation:
http://translate.google.com/transla...om/article/companyNews/idJPnTK049554820101222
Is that saying that for FY 2010 (FY ending in March 2011), they'll have sales of approximately 72 billion yen and still not be profitable? Wow if so.
test_account
XP-39C²
I doubt that Sony will start to charge for online play on the PS3, but i am pretty sure that they will do it on PS4. Doesnt really matter much to me though, it will probably only be like $50 a year or so.
I think they can avoid having to require pay for play. They just need a better retail experience that drives download purchases.
The PSN store needs a facelift and better navigation, and it wouldn't hurt to use more of the XMB as a retail windows. It would also help if they started churning out more downloadable exclusives that drive people to the store and more regular promotions (like Summer of Arcade).
The PSN store needs a facelift and better navigation, and it wouldn't hurt to use more of the XMB as a retail windows. It would also help if they started churning out more downloadable exclusives that drive people to the store and more regular promotions (like Summer of Arcade).
Barkley's Justice
Member
derrrrrrrrrr
makingmusic476
Member
If they're going to start turning a profit by March without charging for online play, why start charging for online play.
Just keep improving PS Plus. I get the feeling that is the service that has pushed them towards the edge.
I've been very pleased my subscription as of late, between the KZ3/LBP2 betas, the MAG game trial, and Sony extending PS Plus discounts to PSP titles, and if they keep adding more content and more features, I'm sure more people would opt in.
Cloud storage is one feature I'm sure people would pay for, for example.
There's ways of doing this without charging for online play and other basic features. They shouldn't restrict certain gameplay features behind a subscription fee.
Of course, earlier in the generation those profits would go towards subsidizing losses on hardware, but at this point all three consoles are sold at a profit.
Just keep improving PS Plus. I get the feeling that is the service that has pushed them towards the edge.
I've been very pleased my subscription as of late, between the KZ3/LBP2 betas, the MAG game trial, and Sony extending PS Plus discounts to PSP titles, and if they keep adding more content and more features, I'm sure more people would opt in.
Cloud storage is one feature I'm sure people would pay for, for example.
There's ways of doing this without charging for online play and other basic features. They shouldn't restrict certain gameplay features behind a subscription fee.
And Sony/MS/Nintendo make money on every game sold for their platform as well, even though they're not all sold directly via the network.Mr_Brit said:
Of course, earlier in the generation those profits would go towards subsidizing losses on hardware, but at this point all three consoles are sold at a profit.
Online play is one of PSN's no. 1 selling points, and I honestly don't think they could get away with charging for online in the same way as XBL does. I love my Playstation but the large majority of the gaming I do on it is single player, and since I hate the awful, anti-consumer practice of locking out features for profit, I would not support it.
Barkley's Justice
Member
on a serious note, the future of video games will become increasingly dependent on services. not only as a means to differentiate one another from the competition, but also as a means of expanding the global audience.
so yes, be fully prepared to pay for online next gen with ps4. and honestly, i hope sony pays an outside firm to develop their front-end because they have proven they are lost when it comes to user interface. if you only own a ps3, you have no idea what i'm referring to, regardless of how intuitive you think the psn storefront and xmb may appear. it's a downright mess.
so yes, be fully prepared to pay for online next gen with ps4. and honestly, i hope sony pays an outside firm to develop their front-end because they have proven they are lost when it comes to user interface. if you only own a ps3, you have no idea what i'm referring to, regardless of how intuitive you think the psn storefront and xmb may appear. it's a downright mess.
If PSN is losing money, that explains why angry internet forum gamers, who look at every cent they spend on their hobby as a crime committed against them by an evil corporation, love it so much,
Correct, this is more a commentary on Sony's business incompetence than anything else.
[Nintex] said:
Correct, this is more a commentary on Sony's business incompetence than anything else.
SalsaShark said:
I do.
When comparing the pros and cons between buying one of the two HD consoles, free online play is often one of the pro's for the PS3. I guess it depends on what that person values, but I've seen it come up a lot. It's not a major stretch to say that's an important thing to some people.
derp
UntoldDreams
Member
I'm out of here but I did provide you guys (I'm looking at you OP) fair warning that what the original Japanese article is talking about is that the Sony Online Infrastructure is costing a lot of money to phase into existence (music, video, games, ebooks) and that keeps them in the red. Its not specific to PSN gaming or dedicated servers or fighting with LIVE or anything like that.
The article also says they have an 11 year road map to their (world domination) profitable digital future (Sony Online Network). Every stage of their business plan starts in the RED INK due to spin up costs and you can imagine how much it will cost for them to fight it out with iTunes and other digital companies.
Have fun chaps!
The article also says they have an 11 year road map to their (world domination) profitable digital future (Sony Online Network). Every stage of their business plan starts in the RED INK due to spin up costs and you can imagine how much it will cost for them to fight it out with iTunes and other digital companies.
Have fun chaps!
Barkley's Justice
Member
Durante said:
no doubt. everyone has their preference. but hand the xmb over to your wife or mother. oooooh shit. thats the kinda stuff that won't fly in the next generation. especially with competitors like apple and nintendo.
i think its way more than 2 million right now, i mean do u know how many people have plus now.Mr_Brit said:
also its a shame they are losing money on psn, but i think they make up for it with their software and the ps3 is making them money now.
also move has to be pure profit for them.
Barkley's Justice said:
even my grandfather understands the xmb, if he wants pictures he goes to pictures or videos or browser under network etc.
its realy easy.
Metalmurphy
Member
The moment they charge for online gaming is when I sell my PS3 (or don't buy a PS4). I really don't give a shit if they charge for voice chat or some other stuff.
Where did you pull that number from?
Also :lol at "steam doesn't count".
Mr_Brit said:
Where did you pull that number from?
I sure as hope you're not gonna say Pacther
Also :lol at "steam doesn't count".
I just cant believe how many people pay to play online, its mindblowing for me.
I mean its not the price, i guess it's cheap enough. Its just a matter of principle. Given how much money theyve made i guess it's safe to say that the service will never be free now. Cant wait for console MMOs with subscriptions in wich you have to pay for the game + xbla gold + monthly subscription fee.
Seriously its fuckin ridiculous :lol
Good luck with that, i'll keep playing for free on my PC dedicated servers, and its not a PC master race thing, its just the way it should be if someone truly cared about what people gets for their money.
I mean its not the price, i guess it's cheap enough. Its just a matter of principle. Given how much money theyve made i guess it's safe to say that the service will never be free now. Cant wait for console MMOs with subscriptions in wich you have to pay for the game + xbla gold + monthly subscription fee.
Seriously its fuckin ridiculous :lol
Good luck with that, i'll keep playing for free on my PC dedicated servers, and its not a PC master race thing, its just the way it should be if someone truly cared about what people gets for their money.
Stripper13
Member
Realistically, 'unprofitable' could mean a lot of things - they all boil down to lost money, but the significance of the loss is relative. If they were losing millions every year, that's a major concern and endangers the PSN Free to play hook no matter how you look at it. If it's more "yeah it's unprofitable, we barely break even" or "we lose a few thousand every year minus infrastructure & R&D costs"... then it hardly seems significant outside of the fact that they will try harder to get cash out of its users, which they have been doing anyway.
That being said, they're in a tough position. They're running an unprofitable service that 'can' do a lot of what XBL can do, while Microsoft is making piles of cash. They can't start charging and hope the large userbase will start paying up - because free to play online was a massive selling point all along. And optional payment (PSN+) has little hope in the long-term as it's hard to show people the value - even more so because Microsoft made XBL such an awesome, steamlined service that makes playing games on it that much better (cross game chat, *drool*) - where PSN might tick most of the same boxes, but doesn't seem as friendly to use or as in your face with getting you to participate.
That being said, they're in a tough position. They're running an unprofitable service that 'can' do a lot of what XBL can do, while Microsoft is making piles of cash. They can't start charging and hope the large userbase will start paying up - because free to play online was a massive selling point all along. And optional payment (PSN+) has little hope in the long-term as it's hard to show people the value - even more so because Microsoft made XBL such an awesome, steamlined service that makes playing games on it that much better (cross game chat, *drool*) - where PSN might tick most of the same boxes, but doesn't seem as friendly to use or as in your face with getting you to participate.
AranhaHunter
Banned
UntoldDreams said:
Thanks for the translation. That puts things into perspective and sounds much better and make much more sense than Joystiq's article, though that shouldn't be surprising (Reuters, Joystiq)
makingmusic476 said:
That would push me to get it, depending on the "size cap" of the Cloud storage that I'd be allowed to have. I've wanted this for awhile, so hopefully they'll make it happen.
Metalmurphy said:
I think that 30% is kind of a standard rule of thumb for DD services, we know Apple makes 30% off stuff sold on the app store and Sony Ericsson gets the same off their Play Arena app store. If I had to guess, I'd say that Sony, MS, Nintendo and Valve makes about the same on PSN, Live, WW, Steam respectively. Of course there are exceptions, such as individual deals, I would also guess that MS makes less off initial sales from COD DLCs, etc.
1up article seems to have a little more info and has the current number of PSN users at 60 million.
Surprising to be honest that the PSN is losing money at this late stage. Surely if Sony matched features with Live and then offered a few extra bits of fluff they could charge for the service?
1up said:
Surprising to be honest that the PSN is losing money at this late stage. Surely if Sony matched features with Live and then offered a few extra bits of fluff they could charge for the service?
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