Support NeoGAF

[.GqueB.]

I think more people would pay for PSN+ if they had more compelling practical uses for it. When you have to use bullshit like "background downloading and updating of firmware and patches" as a paid feature of your service, then you've got problems.

I think sony just painted themselves in a corner. Its not really about having more compelling uses (though thats a part of it). I just dont think they know WHAT to really charge for at this point. They offer a lot of what Live makes people pay to do online for free so at this point they either have to:

1) Start charging for stuff they didnt before and renig on their whole online stance
2) Make up a bunch of ridiculous services and charge for them

They seem to have chosen 2. But the problem is, what else can you really charge for? They fundamentally give away everything any online gamer would need in any basic scenario. I can communicate, play online, download demos, surf the net and even use netflix for free. What else do I really need that they can charge for at this point?

 

[Boney]

How is it a selling point if its free ? derp

If you mean the console itself.. i dont know man, dont really think so.

I'm with Snuggly on this one. It's a good selling point on the console. Maybe not enough to offset the costs, but charging for the service could backfire.

 

[Wazzim]

I just cant believe how many people pay to play online, its mindblowing for me.

I mean its not the price, i guess it's cheap enough. Its just a matter of principle. Given how much money theyve made i guess it's safe to say that the service will never be free now. Cant wait for console MMOs with subscriptions in wich you have to pay for the game + xbla gold + monthly subscription fee.

Seriously its fuckin ridiculous :lol

Like MH Frontier 360?

 

[androvsky]

From what I've gathered, Qriocity, and especially the Ultraviolet DRM infrastructure behind it, is probably a really big deal for Sony. It's not just a simple music service + PSN video store rename, it's a major cloud service designed to support devices from multiple manufacturers, transferring purchased content to other users, multiple devices per owner, and this is supposed to work with books, music, and movies.

Granted, there's several companies supporting Ultraviolet, but I get the impression Sony's one of the biggest backers. Since they're going up against iTunes, one might see how it could be somewhat costly for Sony.

 

[Agent X]

They better not mess with free to play online.

I agree. This is one of the PS3's greatest selling points. If Sony starts charging for online play, then I'd be unlikely to subscribe, and would instead do my online gaming on other platforms.

 

[Durante]

XMB works on the psp, ps3? Not so much with the constant fucking loading of icons. The speed of the interface is just not relevant with the slow loading.

That is actually the biggest problem I have with the XMB on PS3. But it's not a fundamental design issue and should be solved by better implementation and/or new hardware.

 

[Salsa]

Like MH Frontier 360?

well damn :lol


edit: did it do well ?

 

[-viper-]

no doubt. everyone has their preference. but hand the xmb over to your wife or mother. oooooh shit. thats the kinda stuff that won't fly in the next generation. especially with competitors like apple and nintendo.

I really like the layout of the XMB. It's excellent and easily the best interface I've probably seen for a console or entertainment system. Everything that you need can be instantly accessed. Videos? Music? Pictures? Games? Just press right or left. Honestly, you would have to be a complete spaz to be unable to navigate the XMB.

 

[makingmusic476]

That would push me to get it, depending on the "size cap" of the Cloud storage that I'd be allowed to have. I've wanted this for awhile, so hopefully they'll make it happen.

And hopefully they'd include storage of ps1/2 memory card saves as well, though knowing Sony that's probably a pipe dream.

 

[The Faceless Master]

The context of the article is stating that due to all the expansion they have put into PSN including their Video, Music, Games, E-book... They have yet to be profitable.

Anything else being said is not relevant to the original article and statement by Kaz.

You want to POO-POO on something at least make sure the original article is understood.

when you put it that way, it makes sense.

 

[Shambles]

I hope Sony realizes that there are a lot of people out there that ended up choosing their platform just because they don't charge to use the internet. They'd be foolish to start charging for PSN now.

 

[szaromir]

Sony needs to figure out how to implement cross game chat. It's laughable that they don't have it given that Live/Steam have had it for years. Maybe now that PSN won't be in red anymore, they'll have resources to invest into that feature.

 

[Jex]

They better not mess with free to play online.

They're probably kicking themselves this whole generation for not charging, after seeing how well XBL does.

They really have to be considering it for their next generation console. They'd be crazy not too.

 

[GeoramA]

They can go fuck themselves alongside MS if they ever start charging a fee to play online.

 

[Metalmurphy]

They're probably kicking themselves this whole generation for not charging, after seeing how well XBL does.

They really have to be considering it for their next generation console. They'd be crazy not too.

They'd be crazy if they did. SPECIALLY since the PS3 didn't.

 

[Atomski]

I just cant believe how many people pay to play online, its mindblowing for me.

I mean its not the price, i guess it's cheap enough. Its just a matter of principle. Given how much money theyve made i guess it's safe to say that the service will never be free now. Cant wait for console MMOs with subscriptions in wich you have to pay for the game + xbla gold + monthly subscription fee.

Seriously its fuckin ridiculous :lol

Good luck with that, i'll keep playing for free on my PC dedicated servers, and its not a PC master race thing, its just the way it should be if someone truly cared about what people gets for their money.

See heres the thing. You talk about not paying to play online on pc but... its not really free. Go check out how much it would cost you to host a bf:bc2 32 person server. Someone is paying for your servers either through third party hosting or they are paying more for an amazing connection to host on. Pc gaming is not free.. its just free for the leechers. Why do you think theres servers out there asking for donations and such? Its costing them a damn pretty penny compared to paying for something like xbl. (its a lot better than xbl as well but cost a lot more)

Anyways I paid for vent/game servers once when I was a clan retard. So everytime I hear someone say "PC GAMING IS FREE" I say like hell it is.

 

[Slayer-33]

Microsoft was in the position to do it, Sony wasn't when it comes to charging for it's service.


MS hit it out of the park business wise and service wise so far IMO, their provide quality online experience. It was a lose lose situation for Sony, damned if they didn't *eventually* damned if they did because of the console price at launch+ people don't give enough credit to MS and what they have done in terms of doing business in a "nextgen" non watered down console. Kinect is just another step in the right direction for them to keep the profits up and give us what we want as well in terms of hardcore content and not just the casual shit.

Xbox to 360 business wise is a monumental leap forward despite the RROD fiasco that they had to pay for. Expect Xbox 720 to be wildly reliable, I don't expect that bullshit to happen in the magnitude it happened again.

 

[yencid]

This seems to only include japan... no?

 

[ShogunX]

I hope Sony realizes that there are a lot of people out there that ended up choosing their platform just because they don't charge to use the internet. They'd be foolish to start charging for PSN now.

Based on what exactly? Nobody in their right mind would of paid for PSN in the first year or two anyway as the service was complete shit.

In my circle of friends who are all former PS2 owners (Pro Evo machine) one of the biggest features of the 360 is the streamlined online service. For all of their bullshit I do still wonder where online for consoles would be right now without Microsoft and Xbox Live.

 

[Salsa]

See heres the thing. You talk about not paying to play online on pc but... its not really free. Go check out how much it would cost you to host a bf:bc2 32 person server. Someone is paying for your servers either through third party hosting or they are paying more for an amazing connection to host on. Pc gaming is not free.. its just free for the leechers. Why do you think theres servers out there asking for donations and such? Its costing them a damn pretty penny compared to paying for something like xbl. (its a lot better than xbl as well but cost a lot more)

Anyways I paid for vent/game servers once when I was a clan retard. So everytime I hear someone say "PC GAMING IS FREE" I say like hell it is.

I had a TF2 server, i know what youre saying, but i mean i prefer to leave the whole thing to the players themselves rather than giving more money to publishers, rich devs, ms, etc.

New console games cost 60 dollars, let that sink in. Hell, i have to pay over 100usd+ if i want to get them over here, there's no way in hell im paying that + a subscription. Sure it's only free for the leechers, but most of us are, the decision to host a server is made by said host, he doesnt HAVE to do it to play online, he could just as well be a leecher like most people. There's always some people with money that put up servers for other players to play for free, asking for donations or not, it's a system that works much, much better.

 

[Slayer-33]

Based on what exactly? Nobody in their right mind would of paid for PSN in the first year or two anyway as the service was complete shit.

In my circle of friends who are all former PS2 owners (Pro Evo machine) one of the biggest features of the 360 is the streamlined online service. For all of their bullshit I do still wonder where online for consoles would be right now without Microsoft and Xbox Live.

It would be in a sorry POS state right now that's what. Subpar, now it's a part of gaming thanks to them and the initial efforts of SEGA NET which was damn awesome for it's time.

 

[jagowar]

Microsoft was in the position to do it, Sony wasn't when it comes to charging for it's service.


MS hit it out of the park business wise and service wise so far IMO, their provide quality online experience. It was a lose lose situation for Sony, damned if they didn't *eventually* damned if they did because of the console price at launch+ people don't give enough credit to MS and what they have done in terms of doing business in a "nextgen" non watered down console. Kinect is just another step in the right direction for them to keep the profits up and give us what we want as well in terms of hardcore content and not just the casual shit.

Xbox to 360 business wise is a monumental leap forward despite the RROD fiasco that they had to pay for. Expect Xbox 720 to be wildly reliable, I don't expect that bullshit to happen in the magnitude it happened again.

I wonder from the business side of things if they would have been better off to just start charging for their service and accept the fact that they would be nowhere near as big as xbox live. They might have 1/2 the users but they would probably be profitable by now as well.

 

[marathonfool]

Does bandwidth cost that much for Sony? Not enough people spending money on PSN I guess.

 

[test_account]

Don't kid yourself, Live is constructed as one online system, nice and smooth. PSN is alot of ideas thrown together into a pseudo website.
I don't play on live anymore because of the fee but hell I miss it when using PSN.

Buying and playing downloaded games through PSN is no problem though, in my opinion. I am not sure about buying movies (i havnt bought any movies through PSN). I guess that it was this that he commented on

Oh no doubt about that when the PS4 rolls around it will have a fee to play online.

I wonder how long it will be until the PS4. I guess it will probably still be at least 2-3 year until that

 

[Slayer-33]

I wonder from the business side of things if they would have been better off to just start charging for their service and accept the fact that they would be nowhere near as big as xbox live. They might have 1/2 the users but they would probably be profitable by now as well.

People would have jumped in, in the long run it would have been better. But it definitely would have been brutal in press/gaming community for them considering the $599 intro price to the system and the sub-par service initially.

 

[jdmonmou]

I just cant believe how many people pay to play online, its mindblowing for me.

I mean its not the price, i guess it's cheap enough. Its just a matter of principle. Given how much money theyve made i guess it's safe to say that the service will never be free now. Cant wait for console MMOs with subscriptions in wich you have to pay for the game + xbla gold + monthly subscription fee.

Seriously its fuckin ridiculous :lol

Good luck with that, i'll keep playing for free on my PC dedicated servers, and its not a PC master race thing, its just the way it should be if someone truly cared about what people gets for their money.

Xbox live was my first exposure to online gaming, so I am just used to paying for the service. Even though microsoft increased the price of live it is still relatively cheap ($60 for a 12 month gold subscription is not that bad). Even though you get online play for free on the PC, you're still not saving that much money compared to someone who pays for xbox live. You probably have invested thousands of dollars in your PC that is probably now outdated. And on top of that most a lot of pc games released are ridden with glitches and some aren't even getting any DLC. So paying to play online is not that ridiculous.

 

[.GqueB.]

I hope Sony realizes that there are a lot of people out there that ended up choosing their platform just because they don't charge to use the internet. They'd be foolish to start charging for PSN now.

What Gaf is failing to realize is that if you offer a compelling enough product, people will pay for it. Free is nice, but if you offer a superior product and charge for it (like xbl) then people have no reason to complain.

A more relatable example would be Amazon Prime. People are willing to pay money to play online when there are two other options available to them (both with similar games) that offer this same basic service for free. In the case of Amazon Prime, people can shop online for free but there are people out there who are actually choosing to PAY to shop online.

Let me say this again:

there are people out there who are actually choosing to PAY to shop online.

The only real option for sony here that will lead to the least amount of backlash would be to come up with a truly amazing service (that somehow trumps live) and charging for it. Anything else wouldnt work out so well imo.

 

[Truespeed]

MS have been raking in billions from Live all this time.

That's well before expenses, right?

 

[Slayer-33]

Whats funny now is how I don't mind the avatar clothing bullshit you can buy nowadays . I hammerfisted that thought in my mind a long time ago that based on priciple I would NEVER buy shit for my avatar (microrapesactions :lol)... In the end the little relative cost for a certain piece or whatever has changed my mind, I don't mind putting on a full COD military suit on my avatar for a low price..


It's those little things that make companies HUGE money.

I gotta commend those bastards, they have masterfully achieved business it prints money status on such an unexpectedly popular business medium that spawned from what they have done.

 

[ZeroRay]

I'll probably move all my online gaming to PC if Sony starts charging. I don't think XBL is worth the price they charge for and whatever Sony comes up with will probably be worse than next gen Live.

 

[FOOTE]

I'll probably move all my online gaming to PC if Sony starts charging. I don't think XBL is worth the price they charge for and whatever Sony comes up with will probably be worse than next gen Live.

I already have. You will love it just as I and everyone else who uses steam does.

 

[ghst]

Xbox live was my first exposure to online gaming, so I am just used to paying for the service. Even though microsoft increased the price of live it is still relatively cheap ($60 for a 12 month gold subscription is not that bad). Even though you get online play for free on the PC, you're still not saving that much money compared to someone who pays for xbox live. You probably have invested thousands of dollars in your PC that is probably now outdated. And on top of that most a lot of pc games released are ridden with glitches and some aren't even getting any DLC. So paying to play online is not that ridiculous.

poe's! we got poe's here!

 

[ZeroRay]

I already have. You will love it just as I and everyone else who uses steam does.

Yeah definitely. My PC's been dead for a while now but I still buy games from Steam whenever they're on sale. I'll have a nice backlog when I build my new PC next year.

 

[Sydle]

Whats funny now is how I don't mind the avatar clothing bullshit you can buy nowadays . I hammerfisted that thought in my mind a long time ago that based on priciple I would NEVER buy shit for my avatar (microrapesactions :lol)... In the end the little relative cost for a certain piece or whatever has changed my mind, I don't mind putting on a full COD military suit on my avatar for a low price..


It's those little things that make companies HUGE money.

I was open to the idea from the beginning and now I find myself comfortable spending $5-$10 or so every few months to update my avatar look.

I agree that there are still a lot of opportunities for Sony to make bank on microstransactions and improved retail experience before they charge for P2P gaming. I also like the idea of cloud storage - would buy.

 

[Slayer-33]

Whats wrong with people?


I game on PC and 360 online, I don't see what the issue is. Shit is trivially cheap, I don't pay Microsoft for live I just get cards on discount.

My staying power has a lot to do with a specific game franchise, Forza and it's online community etc.. Although I'm not active very much at all because of work and working out... All the live shit, achievements, friends, my avatar and XBLA etc keeps me coming back.

 

[Slavik81]

What Gaf is failing to realize is that if you offer a compelling enough product, people will pay for it. Free is nice, but if you offer a superior product and charge for it (like xbl) then people have no reason to complain.

A more relatable example would be Amazon Prime. People are willing to pay money to play online when there are two other options available to them (both with similar games) that offer this same basic service for free. In the case of Amazon Prime, people can shop online for free but there are people out there who are actually choosing to PAY to shop online.

Let me say this again:

there are people out there who are actually choosing to PAY to shop online.

The only real option for sony here that will lead to the least amount of backlash would be to come up with a truly amazing service (that somehow trumps live) and charging for it. Anything else wouldnt work out so well imo.

That's not a very good example. Amazon Prime is basically a discount program for frequent customers. You pay an upfront fee and get cheaper shipping. It's kind of like buying a Season Pass or getting stuff in bulk. You buy in because you save money if you use it a lot.

 

[WrenchNinja]

They'll lose me completely if they ever start charging for playing online.

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

Anybody who is internet-savvy does not pay full price for Live. Besides, if PSN was as good as Xbox Live, I would be more than happy to pay for it. It's a chicken or the egg situation though, since if Sony charged for PSN in the first place, it would likely be a strong full-featured Live competitor.

 

[Vyer]

There are no real incentives for Sony to keep free online/PSN in the future.

 

[Volcynika]

Xbox live was my first exposure to online gaming, so I am just used to paying for the service. Even though microsoft increased the price of live it is still relatively cheap ($60 for a 12 month gold subscription is not that bad). Even though you get online play for free on the PC, you're still not saving that much money compared to someone who pays for xbox live. You probably have invested thousands of dollars in your PC that is probably now outdated. And on top of that most a lot of pc games released are ridden with glitches and some aren't even getting any DLC. So paying to play online is not that ridiculous.

 

[Brazil]

The PR campaign for a PS4 with P2P online begins.

 

[Mrbob]

Playstation Plus is the extra charge if you want it. Sony won't charge for online play on top of Plus.

 

[Salsa]

Xbox live was my first exposure to online gaming, so I am just used to paying for the service. Even though microsoft increased the price of live it is still relatively cheap ($60 for a 12 month gold subscription is not that bad). Even though you get online play for free on the PC, you're still not saving that much money compared to someone who pays for xbox live. You probably have invested thousands of dollars in your PC that is probably now outdated. And on top of that most a lot of pc games released are ridden with glitches and some aren't even getting any DLC. So paying to play online is not that ridiculous.

 

[kinoki]

Hopefully the cooperation with Valve and Steamworks will give them a well-needed kick in the ass.

 

[expy]

I think they'll stick with the F2P model, but adding value-added services to turn a profit... Pretty much what they've got going now, except by that time they'll have the infrastructure up and all the license deals done.

 

[Luckyman]

Very stupid to not use torrent like Blizzard to distribute huge files

MS is already giving money to activision and its only matter of time before others want money too. MS is ripping publishers

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Repeating for truth!

 

[magicaltrevor]

Playstation Plus is the extra charge if you want it. Sony won't charge for online play on top of Plus.

And if they would force developers to use the tools they've made available such as cross-game invites, joining friends through the XMB and offered cross-game voice/party chat in PS+, then they would have a much more solid user experience and much more people would be happy to pay for PS+.

 

[V_Ben]

Xbox live was my first exposure to online gaming, so I am just used to paying for the service. Even though microsoft increased the price of live it is still relatively cheap ($60 for a 12 month gold subscription is not that bad). Even though you get online play for free on the PC, you're still not saving that much money compared to someone who pays for xbox live. You probably have invested thousands of dollars in your PC that is probably now outdated. And on top of that most a lot of pc games released are ridden with glitches and some aren't even getting any DLC. So paying to play online is not that ridiculous.

So... is this the online gaming equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome?

I think the whole Steam Play thing could prove to be a useful thing for PSN. If they get the cooler features in there, then people may perhaps end up using it more. Hey, cloud saves alone... wouldn't that be something.

 

[jonnybryce]

Sony won't charge for online play. It's become part of Playstation, online play is free. They found a smart way around the issue with PS+. PSN will be profitable soon. I think Sony realizes they need to keep online free as many people chose PS3 for that reason - it was definitely a reason that contributed to me eventually selling my 360.

:lol

I'm a console gamer but yeah...comparing official dlc and pc building costs to online pay fees is really out there.