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Sony: Playstation Network Is Unprofitable

M

Mr_Brit

Banned
Joystiq

Joystiq said:
Sony has yet to make the free-to-use PlayStation Network profitable, Sony's Kazuo Hirai told Reuters Japan. However, he expects the PSN to start making money in the following fiscal year. According to the report, PSN sales nearly doubled in the closing fiscal year, reaching 36 billion yen. Looking forward three years, Hirai expects revenue to increase nearly tenfold, to 300 billion yen.
Click to expand...

Man that's got to sting, MS have been raking in billions from Live all this time. The good thing is that Sony's offering next gen should be much more up to scratch from launch than the PS3 was so as to ensure that the PSN is as integrated into potential buyers' minds as Live is to 360 purchasers.

Can anyone afford to run a major(aka millions of users) unified online system without some sort of service charge? I'm fully expecting Sony to go pay to play next gen. Steam doesn't count as they aren't fully unified and make money from the game sales.

Edit: I think if Sony/MS offer a service with the perks of steam and the tight unification/integration for $30 a year next generation that they've got a winner as it gives people the best of PC gaming and Xbox live for a reasonable price which Sony have proven they need as you can't run a major unified network for free and expect profit.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
If that's the case, seems likely they'll start charging for PSN when PS4 comes out.
 
M

Mr_Brit

Banned
Majine said:
Do they include PS+ in that I wonder.
Click to expand...
Totally anecdotal but I can't imagine Sony getting more than 2 million total PS+ subscribers this generation, they need to tie something more intriguing into the service.
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
The best part of the 360 is the XBL experience. I find myself renting movies, buying games, etc. I would say I've spent fives times more through the 360 directly than through traditional retail....
 
S

SolsticeZero

Banned
Kaako said:
They better not mess with free to play online.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. IMHO this is what makes the PSN more desirable than XBL. I love the fact that I'm not shelling out $50 a year for online play. I don't do it on the PC, why should I on a console.


outunderthestars said:
The best part of the 360 is the XBL experience. I find myself renting movies, buying games, etc. I would say I've spent fives times more through the 360 directly than through traditional retail....
Click to expand...

I'm confused, are you saying that this is opposed to the PSN which offers the same features for free? Or are you just speaking just from a 360 standpoint?
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
ZealousD said:
If that's the case, seems likely they'll start charging for PSN when PS4 comes out.
Click to expand...

Then Sony can count on me going PC only when the PS4 comes out then.
 
M

Majine

Banned
Paco said:
Is Home included? I thought they were making a lot of money off of it?
Click to expand...
They probably do, but it only accounts for a fraction of all PSN incomes.

Home may be profitable, but it isn't so popular yet.
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
outunderthestars said:
The best part of the 360 is the XBL experience. I find myself renting movies, buying games, etc. I would say I've spent fives times more through the 360 directly than through traditional retail....
Click to expand...
And I can do the same thing with PSN...what is your point?
I also don't have to pay for p2p online play.
Solstice said:
I agree with this. IMHO this is what makes the PSN more desirable than XBL. I love the fact that I'm not shelling out $50 a year for online play. I don't do it on the PC, why should I on a console.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
G

Garjon

Member
Saw this earlier and I'm still not sure how this could be. Sony have that bandwidth charge per GB, PSN+ and mostly decent sales (as far as some developers have claimed). It can't cost that much as a client either. The only reason I can think of is the whole division being poorly optimised and bloated in terms of both staff and the service itself.
 
W

WillyFive

Member
Kaako said:
And I can do the same thing with PSN...what is your point?
I also don't have to pay for p2p online play.
Click to expand...

He probably means the interface. It's easier and more pleasing, and it's promoted more. You know, the New Xbox Experience.
 
K

Kusagari

Member
Do people honestly still believe that PS4 won't have PSN cost money? Sony is looking at how much money MS makes from Live and salivating over it.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Garjon said:
The only reason I can think of is the whole division being poorly optimised and bloated in terms of both staff and the service itself.
Click to expand...


Certainly not bloated enough to where they can update the fucking store on a set fucking time every fucking goddamn week. (Fuck you Grace Chen and your PSN store department)
 
yurinka

yurinka

Member
Nice to see they are going to have profit without having to charge their millions of users to play on-line.

Paco said:
Is Home included? I thought they were making a lot of money off of it?
Click to expand...
I would say Home isn't included, because it's handled by other team. Home was making a lot of money since almost the start.
Majine said:
Home may be profitable, but it isn't so popular yet.
Click to expand...
With 17 million users, I would say it's a bit popular.
500x_homegraphic.jpg
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
I tried to view the original article, but my Japanese is rusty. Is he talking about PSN in Japan, or PSN in Europe, or PSN in NA, or PSN worldwide?
 
H

H_Prestige

Banned
Kusagari said:
Do people honestly still believe that PS4 won't have PSN cost money? Sony is looking at how much money MS makes from Live and salivating over it.
Click to expand...

Just think of how much extra money MS made off the COD crowd compared to Sony.
 
M

Mr_Brit

Banned
Garjon said:
Saw this earlier and I'm still not sure how this could be. Sony have that bandwidth charge per GB, PSN+ and mostly decent sales (as far as some developers have claimed). It can't cost that much as a client either. The only reason I can think of is the whole division being poorly optimised and bloated in terms of both staff and the service itself.
Click to expand...
I think people are underestimating just how much bandwidth, servers, staff, electricity, overheads, advertising, R&D etc is involved in running Live/PSN. If they don't start charging a reasonable $30> subscription fee next gen then they'll never become profitable.
 
S

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
Nice title.

I'm fine with the service, and it offers a solid library of games but I'm sure the big struggle is just drawing the average gamer's attention to it. I know a few PS3 owners and none of them seem to be even aware of it, they just went to turn on the system and play Call of Duty.
 
R

Rikyfree

Member
This is what it is:

Sony: PSN is free to play and makes ok bank.
MS: We stack paper like nobody's business by charging for a p2p service.
Sony: $_$
 
MMaRsu

MMaRsu

Banned
No shit. I just bought a Ps3 and I'm glad it has free online so don't take it away from me now Sony! You're ripping my goddamn heart out here!
 
C

CrunchyFrog

Member
I think more people would pay for PSN+ if they had more compelling practical uses for it. When you have to use bullshit like "background downloading and updating of firmware and patches" as a paid feature of your service, then you've got problems.
 
M

Mr_Brit

Banned
SalsaShark said:
Fuckin xbox live making pay to play online a must
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with Xbox Live, Sony have proven that you can't make money running a major unified online service without some sort of charge if you want to stay profitable.
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
Xbox Live isn't the only online service making money, Steam is free and a profitable venture. Sony is doing something wrong somewhere, they need to get Gabe on the phone.
 
U

UntoldDreams

Member
Umm... Hold the horses this is inaccurate.
http://jp.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idJPnTK049554820101222

The actual Japanese article indicates the online service structure including their music play for QRIOCITY as well as E-Book and no doubt anything digital was not making money YET. That includes the video store.

They use the term PSN as the amalgram of their entire online digital play. That as an aggregate cost assessment and has not yet yielded profit due to the simple fact that its still being built.

This is NOT a quote from Kaz Hirai saying PSN games are not profitable. That's completely out of context for the article.
 
S

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
Razorskin said:
I remember when the psn store was a shitty website. I REMEMBER
Click to expand...

Didn't it run through the internet browser or something? I was a couple years late so I never got to see PSN store in it's infancy.
 
yurinka

yurinka

Member
[Nintex] said:
Xbox Live isn't the only online service making money, Steam is free and a profitable venture. Sony is doing something wrong somewhere, they need to get Gabe on the phone.
Click to expand...
Same happens with the AppStore, Facebook, etc.
Mr_Brit said:
This has nothing to do with Xbox Live, Sony have proven that you can't make money running a major unified online service without some sort of charge if you want to stay profitable.
Click to expand...
He also said they're going to be profitable this year. And some post above you'll see these looses aren't only from PSN, they include unpublished nonPSN stuff.
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
Mr_Brit said:
I think people are underestimating just how much bandwidth, servers, staff, electricity, overheads, advertising, R&D etc is involved in running Live/PSN. If they don't start charging a reasonable $30> subscription fee next gen then they'll never become profitable.
Click to expand...
Valve does it with Steam w/out charging users, so did Sony with PSN.
They can all all they want to PSN+ but I strongly believe that they should keep free to play online. It is THE biggest reason why anyone would choose PSN over XBL.
 
D

Durante

Member
Mr_Brit said:
This has nothing to do with Xbox Live, Sony have proven that you can't make money running a major unified online service without some sort of charge if you want to stay profitable.
Click to expand...
Steam?
 
M

Mr_Brit

Banned
UntoldDreams said:
Umm... Hold the horses this is inaccurate.
http://jp.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idJPnTK049554820101222

The actual Japanese article indicates the online service structure including their music play for QRIOCITY as well as E-Book and no doubt anything digital was not making money. That includes the video store.

They use the term PSN as the amalgram of their entire online digital play. That as an aggregate probably has not yet yielded profit due to the simple fact that its still being built.

This is NOT a quote from Kaz Hirai saying PSN games are not profitable. That's completely out of context for the article.
Click to expand...
Of course PSN games are profitable, noone was claiming that they weren't. PSN as a whole is losing Sony money is what the article is saying.
 
B

Boney

Banned
But they're saying it should be profitable next year. And the costs should be offset by other comparative advantages regarding XBL.

*crossing fingers*
 
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