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New Suikoden announced for PSP

F

Fourth Storm

Member
Does Konami really think the Suikoden IP carries so much clout as to make this sell? The only people who care about the series anymore are fully aware and disgusted at the direction it's taken. Million World whatever...They won't even let this once proud pillar of excellence in RPG storytelling rest in peace.
 
X

Xelinis

Junior Member
Suikoden Tierkreis was explicitly cited as a strong performer in both Japan and State-side during one of their earnings meeting a few years back. There's little doubt in my mind that this is getting an NA release.
 
S

SiegfriedFM

Member
I dunno. Much of the problems with Tierkreis could be fixed on PSP. They could make non-deformed characters and squish six of them onto the battle screen, they could have less compressed audio with actors not having to speak twice the normal speed, and they could keep building on that story (with returning characters) much like the once did with Suiko 1->2. Suikoden wasn't an instant success either, it took Suikoden 2 for everyone to really love the original.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
duckroll said:
Oh dear. Oh oh dear Konami. This is not what Suikoden fans want. Lol. This is going further and further into the ballsack of Suikoden Tactics, Suikoden 4 and Suikoden DS. The trailer going "A brand new million worlds story" is such a horrible sign. Classic Suikoden is truly dead. Lolz.
Click to expand...
this
 
F

Fourth Storm

Member
Xelinis said:
Suikoden Tierkreis was explicitly cited as a strong performer in both Japan and State-side during one of their earnings meeting a few years back. There's little doubt in my mind that this is getting an NA release.
Click to expand...

Great...I guess? I wouldn't even mind that they threw out the original "world" if the new one was anywhere near as intriguing and mature in its narrative. I haven't played it, but all indication is that Tierkreis' story was not up to par. Story and music are my two main criteria for RPGs. If this next game doesn't have that, I'll be forced to pass again.
 
G

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Sort-of want. I mean... ANY suikoden news is better than the series being dead. But the DS one was incredibly disappointing.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
GDJustin said:
Sort-of want. I mean... ANY suikoden news is better than the series being dead. But the DS one was incredibly disappointing.
Click to expand...
it's ok when this one flops they'll be like SEEE THATS WHY WE NO BRING SUIKODEN 6
 
D

decoyplatypus

Member
SiegfriedFM said:
...they could keep building on that story (with returning characters) much like the once did with Suiko 1->2.
Click to expand...

The rationale they gave for Tierkries was that multi-game continuity (in S1-5) had hurt sales by turning away potential players. "Million Worlds" was supposed to be an excuse to re-use familiar features (runes, stars of destiny, etc.) without building a world that would intimidate anyone who missed the previous game. This is also why there was significant debate at the time whether Suikoden fans ought to purchase Tierkries at all, since the logic behind Tierkries didn't entail EVER returning to the original continuity. In any case, it would be very weird for Konami to try to build on the story from Tierkries.
 
F

Freyjadour

Member
Was Suikoden ever really intimidating? Most of the stories are self contained enough to play out of sequence just fine. Connecting the dots and building the world-view from the perspectives of all of the games is entirely optional for the most part even if it is one of the series' shining aspects.
 
A

Aeana

Member
Freyjadour said:
Was Suikoden ever really intimidating? Most of the stories are self contained enough to play out of sequence just fine. Connecting the dots and building the world-view from the perspectives of all of the games is entirely optional for the most part even if it is one of the series' shining aspects.
Click to expand...
No, it was never intimidating in the least. It was a bullcrap excuse.
 
A

Aru

Member
Boney said:
Didn't Konami said they lost their ability to do RPG's?
Click to expand...

Maybe it's part of their deal with tri-ace.
It'd be an odd but interesting deal. Real time action battle system Suikoden ? Count me in.
 
D

decoyplatypus

Member
Freyjadour said:
Was Suikoden ever really intimidating? Most of the stories are self contained enough to play out of sequence just fine. Connecting the dots and building the world-view from the perspectives of all of the games is entirely optional for the most part even if it is one of the series' shining aspects.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you and Aena: continuity intimidation was a lame excuse. I know quite a few people who only own (and really liked) Suikoden III. Videogame players are used to jumping into long-running series regardless of the number or subtitle on the game. You'd almost have to intentionally advertise complex, multi-game story arcs in order to shake people of the assumption that they don't have to play games in order. This would never have happened with a Suikoden 6 because, as you point out, the stories ARE self-contained.
 
D

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Just came home and I think I've moved on from disappointment to being pissed off.

Freyjadour said:
Was Suikoden ever really intimidating? Most of the stories are self contained enough to play out of sequence just fine. Connecting the dots and building the world-view from the perspectives of all of the games is entirely optional for the most part even if it is one of the series' shining aspects.
Click to expand...
It was a shit excuse. You can play out-of-sequence if you wanted to and still get everything going on because the narratives themselves are self-contained. The links are the only things you'll get (or will be expanded upon in the story--think using your GS1 save in GS2) if you play the rest of the games. Getting the links are optional, but if geography and history are important to you in a Suikoden game, then it's better to play all of the games. It is not necessary at all, however.

Enjoyment is not hampered by not playing all the entries in the series. The narratives themselves in most entries are good. I mean, I'm sure a lot of western Genso Suikoden players never played Card Stories or the Suikogaiden games. That never took away their enjoyment of Genso Suikoden 1&2 or Genso Suikoden III, though, did it?

Do note that I enjoyed Genso Suikoden IV better after playing Rhapsodia/Tactics... because the world/world-building and narratives were expanded upon, but it isn't really needed.

Xelinis said:
Suikoden Tierkreis was explicitly cited as a strong performer in both Japan and State-side during one of their earnings meeting a few years back. There's little doubt in my mind that this is getting an NA release.
Click to expand...
I dunno... there doesn't seem to be a lot of publishers willing to put a lot of stuff on PSP lately (or at least in 2012) outside of Aksys and NISA in North America. If they do release this for PSP, it could be PSN-only. Or they could just put it on Vita somehow.

I'll import this, but... I'm not sure if this is going to get an NA release. Could be wrong, but hm... :/
 
H

Hours Left

Member
-Pyromaniac- said:
it's ok when this one flops they'll be like SEEE THATS WHY WE NO BRING SUIKODEN 6
Click to expand...
It's such a catch 22, if it does well then MORE 1,000,000 WORLD STORIES, if it flops then NO MORE SUIKODEN VI.

Basically, it has to do average. Enough for Konami to see that people want Suikoden, but not enough to indicate that people want this kind of faux Suikoden.

Aeana said:
No, it was never intimidating in the least. It was a bullcrap excuse.
Click to expand...
Exactly, no one's head is going to explode if they play the games out of order. The links between the games are wondrous and exciting (and my favorite part), but you don't need a doctorate in Suikoden to jump into the series at any point.

Konami is just being lame.
 
D

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Gunloc said:
It's such a catch 22, if it does well then MORE 1,000,000 WORLD STORIES, if it flops then NO MORE SUIKODEN VI.

Basically, it has to do average. Enough for Konami to see that people want Suikoden, but not enough to indicate that people want this kind of faux Suikoden.
Click to expand...
I'm not even sure it doing average is going to convince them to stop doing the ONE MILLION WORLDS bullshit. Using the "one million worlds" premise, they can basically do whatever they want with the series now, with the only constant being the 108 characters to join you. If this doesn't work, then they could try something else using another world in the infinite worlds. @_@

I think one of the kicks in the gut for Tierkreis for me was the lack of runes. :lol

I sincerely hope that they go back to the old world, because that's what I want the most. But... since it's Konami... I don't know. :(
 
E

electroplankton

Banned
Xelinis said:
Suikoden Tierkreis was explicitly cited as a strong performer in both Japan and State-side during one of their earnings meeting a few years back. There's little doubt in my mind that this is getting an NA release.
Click to expand...

As I told
 
D

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
electroplankton said:
As I told
Click to expand...
I thought we had already discussed and debated that it was probably a financial success for Konami in the previous thread? :p

btw...do you know if there are any records of EU sales of the Suikoden games released in Europe at all?

Dark Schala said:
So... references here + Genso Suikoden JP #s here:

Suikoden I (US Sales Only): 171,846
Suikoden II (JPN + US): 466,092
Genso Suikogaiden Vol 1 (JPN Only): 71,042
Suikoden Card Stories (JPN Only): 7,676
Genso Suikogaiden Vol 2 (JPN Only): 41,366
Suikoden III (JPN + US): 617,567
Suikoden IV (JPN + US): 443,654
Suikoden Tactics (JPN + US): 144,801
Suikoden V (JPN + US): 296,437
Suikoden Tierkreis (JPN + US): 212,275
Suikoden I+II (JPN Only): 28,271

*does not include budget version sales or EU sales

So yes, electroplankton does have a point given that the Tierkreis numbers (bloated somewhat from the JP sales and budget version sales in Japan) are pretty close to the Suikoden V numbers. So sales doesn't seem to be reason, unless it's because of its poor showing in the US. But if it is because of its poor showing in the US, then I don't see why they can't go the Tales route and keep most mainline entries in Japan. Clearly there is a fanbase in Japan at the very least. What was kind of surprising was that the Suikoden Tactics numbers in Japan were less than the numbers in the US.
Click to expand...
Based on the mk2 scores, the player response towards Tierkreis was split, somewhat leaning towards meh.

*Edit: Special thanks to Akselziys for updated US numbers! :D
(Suikoden I: 171,846
Suikoden II: 91,773)
 
A

Augemitbutter

Member
Dark Schala said:
I thought we had already discussed and debated that it was probably a financial success for Konami in the previous thread? :p

btw...do you know if there are any records of EU sales of the Suikoden games released in Europe at all?
Click to expand...

tierkreis never showed in the top 40 UK charts, ever. don't know about other countries.

the other releases are too far back.
 
Pyrrhus

Pyrrhus

Member
I won't deny some small part of me still got excited when I read the title of this thread. But I guess I just need to hang it up. Suikoden's been bad and/or nonexistent longer than it was good at this point.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
decoyplatypus said:
I completely agree with you and Aena: continuity intimidation was a lame excuse. I know quite a few people who only own (and really liked) Suikoden III. Videogame players are used to jumping into long-running series regardless of the number or subtitle on the game. You'd almost have to intentionally advertise complex, multi-game story arcs in order to shake people of the assumption that they don't have to play games in order. This would never have happened with a Suikoden 6 because, as you point out, the stories ARE self-contained.
Click to expand...

absolutely. How many gamers do we know that didn't touch Final Fantasy before 7? Or Dragon quest before 8? shitloads.

You make a quality game, gamers will play it.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Pyrrhus said:
I won't deny some small part of me still got excited when I read the title of this thread. But I guess I just need to hang it up. Suikoden's been bad and/or nonexistent longer than it was good at this point.
Click to expand...

1 bad game out of 5 in the mainline series.

We need more mainline Suikoden :(
 
D

DeliciousDoc

Member
maybe we need to show ENTHUSIASM by having a campaign where people buy all the suikodens on psn to show interest, beg the creator to make a new game for konami through a letter campaign, give paypal donations to konami so they can hire people who can code rpgs and send naked pictures to the marketing department promising more if they deliver. Man, fans are so lazy.

Having said that, I'll get the suikoden they are making for psp unless word of mouth says it's terrible. Don't hate.
 
D

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Augemitbutter said:
tierkreis never showed in the top 40 UK charts, ever. don't know about other countries.

the other releases are too far back.
Click to expand...
Aw, that's too bad. :/
Oh well, I guess we can just rely on the US/JP sales, then. (Also, wtf is up with the GS4 hate in this thead. I am disappoint. I feel like both of us are the only people who like GS4.)

SafeinSound said:
I don't know why they are even wasting the money on this shit. Are the spin offs big in Japan or something?
Click to expand...
Read this post and this post. But as I already stated, mk2 scores were lukewarm.

I do not know how Genso Suikogaiden Vols 1 and 2 or Card Stories were received. I can only assume Card Stories didn't get much or a reception because the sales numbers are pretty low. I have a budget copy of Genso Suikogaiden Volume 1, so I can guess that it did reasonably okay (http://geimin.net/da/db/2000_ne_fa/index.php says 71 042).

Genso Suikogaiden Vol 2's numbers are here (http://geimin.net/da/db/2001_ne_fa/index.php), which says 41 366. I guess I'll update my post with that data. Haha, Genso Suikogaiden Vol 2 is the only game missing from my collection. I borrowed it from a friend to play it, but I don't own my own copy, sadly.

DeliciousDoc said:
maybe we need to show ENTHUSIASM by having a campaign where people buy all the suikodens on psn to show interest
Click to expand...
Konami seems to be interested in Metal Gear, Silent Hill, PES and Castlevania sequels. I very much doubt an Operation Runefall would work... you know, since Genso Suikoden I is the only Genso Suikoden game on PSN in the US.

Also, Konami isn't Namco because they didn't even ask for us to show ENTHUSIASM in the first place... they simply posted a Facebook note to tell Suikoden fans to shut up (and quit spamming their Facebook page comment sections).
 
B

B.K.

Member
DeliciousDoc said:
beg the creator to make a new game for konami through a letter campaign
Click to expand...

The series creator isn't at Konami anymore. That's why we're getting crap like Tierkries and this game. Konami has no idea what to do with the main series.
 
A

Akselziys

Aksys Games Dev.
Dark Schala said:
Aw, that's too bad. :/
Oh well, I guess we can just rely on the US/JP sales, then. (Also, wtf is up with the GS4 hate in this thead. I am disappoint. I feel like both of us are the only people who like GS4.)
Click to expand...

Count me as the third! :3

I liked Suikoden IV, especially when paired with Rhapsodia (aka IV-2) :D

Suikoden IV isn't bad by any means, it's just that the other mainline games shine brighter ;)

But it's definitely a game that needs to be played, along with 1, 2, 3, and 5, to immerse yourself in the mainline Suikoden series :D
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
They do this just to piss me off.
 
D

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
I fixed the sales numbers, and hopefully we have a better list to work with. Let me know if I should add or correct something. I get the feeling that there will be an organizational error because I was doing three things at once while compiling this. Also, I suck at that code stuff, so I'm posting screencaps from Word. LOL.

UODaE.png


**EU sales excluded
N/A: Not available; can't find them
N/L: Not localized
T.B: Konami the Best
K.B.S: Konami Best Selection

Complete Sales for games that have budget versions:
Genso Suikoden III: 637 260
Genso Suikoden Tierkreis: 217 301
Genso Suikoden I+II: 56 838

Sources:
US Numbers as of June 2011
Genso Suikoden II JP sales
Genso Suikogaiden Vol 1 JP Sales
Genso Suikogaiden Vol 2 JP Sales
Rest of JP Sales, excluding previously mentioned titles

Again, thanks Akselziys!


Akselziys said:
Count me as the third! :3

I liked Suikoden IV, especially when paired with Rhapsodia (aka IV-2) :D

Suikoden IV isn't bad by any means, it's just that the other mainline games shine brighter ;)

But it's definitely a game that needs to be played, along with 1, 2, 3, and 5, to immerse yourself in the mainline Suikoden series :D
Click to expand...
Hooray! I definitely agree with that--it's important to the lore and worldbuilding, I think. I thought it was pretty decent, and I'm happy that they returned to a regular party battle system (even though it was down to 4 characters spread across three parties this time). At least it had a New Game+.

daoster said:
Suikoden IV was a decent game, and had better music than V.
Click to expand...
Music is subjective, but I really love Suikoden IV's soundtrack very much. One of my favourites in the series.
 
V

vall03

Member
Dark Schala said:
Music is subjective, but I really love Suikoden IV's soundtrack very much. One of my favourites in the series.
Click to expand...
yup, pretty much, music is also one of the redeeming qualities of Tierkreis
 
K

KariOhki

Neo Member
With numbers like that, part of me has to hope for a localization, I guess. I'm a little excited, if only because it's a Suikoden, which is sad. Tierkreis got good plot-wise at the end, but the gameplay was pretty subpar.

Also I liked IV after I played Tactics, since it's got a decent set of characters. But gameplay kinda kills it.
 
S

SatelliteOfLove

Member
What's that Konami? You want RPG players who crave lovingly and skillfully made worlds and sagas to give money to Falcom and their Trails series? OK!

Freyjadour said:
Was Suikoden ever really intimidating? Most of the stories are self contained enough to play out of sequence just fine. Connecting the dots and building the world-view from the perspectives of all of the games is entirely optional for the most part even if it is one of the series' shining aspects.
Click to expand...

Difficult for the devs, apparently.
 
H

Hours Left

Member
SatelliteOfLove said:
What's that Konami? You want RPG players who crave lovingly and skillfully made worlds and sagas to give money to Falcom and their Trails series? OK!
Click to expand...
You'd think they would see all the success Falcom is having with the Kiseki series and by like "Hey, we already have a super rich and awesome world! Maybe we should use it!?"

>_>
 
D

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Gunloc said:
You'd think they would see all the success Falcom is having with the Kiseki series and by like "Hey, we already have a super rich and awesome world! Maybe we should use it!?"

>_>
Click to expand...
Too bad they don't remember how to make RPGs/go with what already works rather than fixing what isn't broken. :p

Perhaps they should have partnered with Falcom for something. A Falcom-developed Genso Suikoden game is the stuff of dreams. :O
 
C

ctrayne

Member
Dark Schala said:
Perhaps they should have partnered with Falcom for something. A Falcom-developed Genso Suikoden game is the stuff of dreams. :O
Click to expand...
Such a thing would never happen, but a Suikoden action-RPG would be cool. Maybe as the Flame Champion or something?
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
ULTROS! said:
I only want Suikoden III HD for the opening.
Click to expand...
Sadly, I can say without doubt, the opening in Suikoden III is the single best thing in the game. Game just goes down hill from there.

I don't want simply an HD version of Suikoden III, I want a full damn remake. The game needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. The plot is great, the game play supporting the plot is horrible.

duckroll said:
I'm really not sure why both PS1 Suikoden games are not on PSN in the US. It's really strange.
Click to expand...
My only guess is due to the few bugs in the game. They weren't game breaking, but they were pretty visable. Both the Imported data from the name, and a few NPCs text were messed up.
 
B

Bel Marduk

Banned
Drkirby said:
Sadly, I can say without doubt, the opening in Suikoden III is the single best thing in the game. Game just goes down hill from there.

I don't want simply an HD version of Suikoden III, I want a full damn remake. The game needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. The plot is great, the game play supporting the plot is horrible.
Click to expand...

True that. Though I didn't like the story/music much either.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Bel Marduk said:
True that. Though I didn't like the story/music much either.
Click to expand...
The story was pretty good, I think a lot of the plot twists could of been presented better if it wasn't for the Trinity site system. The biggest problem with the music wasn't that it was bad, it was just really dull.
 
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