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What happened when I started a feminist society at school

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So this is pretty disgusting. And people say that sexism is finished.

I am 17 years old and I am a feminist. I believe in gender equality, and am under no illusion about how far we are from achieving it. Identifying as a feminist has become particularly important to me since a school trip I took to Cambridge last year.

A group of men in a car started wolf-whistling and shouting sexual remarks at my friends and me. I asked the men if they thought it was appropriate for them to be abusing a group of 17-year-old girls. The response was furious. The men started swearing at me, called me a bitch and threw a cup coffee over me.

For those men we were just legs, breasts and pretty faces. Speaking up shattered their fantasy, and they responded violently to my voice.

Shockingly, the boys in my peer group have responded in exactly the same way to my feminism.

After returning from this school trip I started to notice how much the girls at my school suffer because of the pressures associated with our gender. Many of the girls have eating disorders, some have had peers heavily pressure them into sexual acts, others suffer in emotionally abusive relationships where they are constantly told they are worthless.

I decided to set up a feminist society at my school, which has previously been named one of "the best schools in the country", to try to tackle these issues. However, this was more difficult than I imagined as my all-girls school was hesitant to allow the society. After a year-long struggle, the feminist society was finally ratified.

What I hadn't anticipated on setting up the feminist society was a massive backlash from the boys in my wider peer circle. They took to Twitter and started a campaign of abuse against me. I was called a "feminist bitch", accused of "feeding [girls] bullshit", and in a particularly racist comment was told "all this feminism bull won't stop uncle Sanjit from marrying you when you leave school".

Our feminist society was derided with retorts such as, "FemSoc, is that for real? #DPMO" [don't piss me off] and every attempt we made to start a serious debate was met with responses such as "feminism and rape are both ridiculously tiring".

The more girls started to voice their opinions about gender issues, the more vitriolic the boys' abuse became. One boy declared that "bitches should keep their bitchiness to their bitch-selves #BITCH" and another smugly quipped, "feminism doesn't mean they don't like the D, they just haven't found one to satisfy them yet." Any attempt we made to stick up for each other was aggressively shot down with "get in your lane before I par [ridicule] you too", or belittled with remarks like "cute, they got offended".


I fear that many boys of my age fundamentally don't respect women. They want us around for parties, banter and most of all sex. But they don't think of us as intellectual equals, highlighted by accusations of being hysterical and over sensitive when we attempted to discuss serious issues facing women.

The situation recently reached a crescendo when our feminist society decided to take part in a national project called Who Needs Feminism. We took photos of girls standing with a whiteboard on which they completed the sentence "I need feminism because...", often delving into painful personal experiences to articulate why feminism was important to them.

When we posted these pictures online we were subject to a torrent of degrading and explicitly sexual comments.

We were told that our "militant vaginas" were "as dry as the Sahara desert", girls who complained of sexual objectification in their photos were given ratings out of 10, details of the sex lives of some of the girls were posted beside their photos, and others were sent threatening messages warning them that things would soon "get personal".

We, a group of 16-, 17- and 18-year-old girls, have made ourselves vulnerable by talking about our experiences of sexual and gender oppression only to elicit the wrath of our male peer group. Instead of our school taking action against such intimidating behaviour, it insisted that we remove the pictures. Without the support from our school, girls who had participated in the campaign were isolated, facing a great deal of verbal abuse with the full knowledge that there would be no repercussions for the perpetrators.

It's been over a century since the birth of the suffragette movement and boys are still not being brought up to believe that women are their equals. Instead we have a whole new battleground opening up online where boys can attack, humiliate, belittle us and do everything in their power to destroy our confidence before we even leave high school.

It is appalling that an institution responsible for preparing young women for adult life has actively opposed our feminist work. I feel like the school is not supporting its girls in a crucial part of their evolution into being strong, assertive, confident women. If that's the case for a well-established girls' school, what hope does this generation of women have in challenging the misogyny that still pervades our society?

If you thought the fight for female equality was over, I'm sorry to tell you that a whole new round is only just beginning.

• Altrincham Grammar made the following comment about the feminist society:

"Altrincham Grammar School for Girls has supported Jinan in setting up the society, providing administrative assistance, guidance and proactively suggesting opportunities to help members to explore this issue which they feel passionately about.

"We are committed to protecting the safety and welfare of our students, which extends to their safety online. We consider very carefully any societies that the school gives its name and support to.

"As such, we will take steps to recommend students remove words or images that they place online that could compromise their safety or that of other students at the school."

Here's the article

Sorry if this isn't a very good OP, I don't normally post these kinds of things
 

Madness

Member
Disgusting, really. I guess sexism will never truly end.

Of course... Modern society built on 6000+ years of patriarchal society and certain gender roles/norms isn't going away soon.

It's even worse when you consider the future of economic and industrial power is in countries like India and China where women have way less rights.

As an aside, I've noticed that there is a growing backlash against social issues recently. Example, after the Kotaku articles on sexism in games, which many concluded were manufactured controversy, I noticed in a lot of other related threads, comments like 'better not let Kotaku know', 'was this written by Kotaku'. It really hampered discourse on the subject.

I think it's changing, but it'll take time, but I don't think we'll ever have true gender equality. Just not possible, just as no racism is not possible etc.
 
Christ, that's awful. I will never understand what makes people so angry with feminists and feminism. That knee jerk response of "bitch", "butch" or "feminazis". What the fuck.


The OP was fine RNH, thanks for posting.
 
It's even worse when you consider the future of economic and industrial power is in countries like India and China where women have way less rights.

I don't know about that. China has come a long way since footbinding, and were kind of pioneers for women's rights with their "women hold up half the sky" movement in the 50's. Sure, there is still an expectation that women should behave a certain way and generally quit working for a while after childbirth (plus the awful measures in place to stop them from having multiple children) but they DO make up 46% of the labour force, which ain't bad.

men really are the worst, we need to find a way to stop them

Insightful post, you clearly understand feminist values.
 

Snowman

Member
Christ, that's awful. I will never understand what makes people so angry with feminists and feminism. That knee jerk response of "bitch", "butch" or "feminazis". What the fuck.

Makes some guys feel like they're being told they're doing something wrong or that they aren't good people because of how they act/think I guess.
 

Madness

Member
I don't know about that. China has come a long way since footbinding, and were kind of pioneers for women's rights with their "women hold up half the sky" movement in the 50's. Sure, there is still an expectation that women should behave a certain way and generally quit working for a while after childbirth (plus the awful measures in place to stop them from having multiple children) but they DO make up 46% of the labour force, which ain't bad.

Well they're no longer burning widows on their husbands funeral pyres in India either. But how much has really changed? In India and China, men have a much higher literacy rate, hold many of the positions in power when it comes to government and workforce.

Plus sex selective abortions are making the demographics skew towards males. I'm just saying, that in a future dominated by these countries, what can you really expect in terms of real change in the West then? The only reason they have changed this much is due to Western hard/soft power influence.

Anecdotal example, my friend went to teach in Shanghai, got paid way less than her male colleague simply because she was a woman. But she still needed the job and if she complained, she'd have been replaced. Look at the amount of visas granted to Indian students who are male compared to female.
 
Well they're no longer burning widows on their husbands funeral pyres in India either. But how much has really changed? In India and China, men have a much higher literacy rate, hold many of the positions in power when it comes to government and workforce.

Plus sex selective abortions are making the demographics skew towards males. I'm just saying, that in a future dominated by these countries, what can you really expect in terms of real change in the West then? The only reason they have changed this much is due to Western hard/soft power influence.

Anecdotal example, my friend went to teach in Shanghai, got paid way less than her male colleague simply because she was a woman. But she still needed the job and if she complained, she'd have been replaced. Look at the amount of visas granted to Indian students who are male compared to female.

Yeah, there are definitely still a lot of problems, especially in India. And I see your point.

Makes some guys feel like they're being told they're doing something wrong or that they aren't good people because of how they act/think I guess.

hmm, that's interesting. I see feminism as fighting against problems inherent in society. Most men are doing nothing wrong, and are probably feminists themselves. I'm still surprised at how angry people get.
 

Mumei

Member
men really are the worst, we need to find a way to stop them

You are a man, Arte.

But this is a very important issue:

Sexist harassment, also called gendered bullying by some researchers (defined as sexual harassment for this book), is often directed to girls as a group or individually and can include subtle physical intimidation such as blocking the way or invading personal space. It is sex-based - directed to girls because they are girls. It may begin as fun and joking, and turn into harassment. When a girl doesn't like it and tells the boys to stop, she often hears: "Oh we were just joking" or "Can't you take a joke?" Sex-based harassment is still a form of power "over" another student.

When teaching students about sexual harassment, boys often said they felt pressured by their male classmates to harass girls because, if they did not, they were ostracized and/or became vulnerable to male classmates sexually harassing them by, for example, using homophobic taunts. They were called names like "queer" and "fag," and were the brunt of jokes implying they weren't heterosexual. The harassment of girls by boys was an expected rite of passage, used to assure their sexual masculine identity and to generate acceptable by their male classmates within the male hierarchical power relationships (not just in terms of gender, but race and class as well). The sexual harassment of their female classmates represents hegemonic masculinity or patriarchy (see chapter 9 on causes and contributing factors for further discussion). [Hetero]sexual sexual harassment is a way to demonstrate dominance towards females, not just for the sake of the behavior itself, but to ensure acceptance in the male group. When boys are harassed, it is often because they don't portray themselves as the "right" kind of boy, not being male enough, thereby building hierarchy and enforcing heterosexual masculinity. Sexual harassment can act as a way to police and maintain gender boundaries and hierarchy. It is also a way to put a girl in her place when boys are angry and want to reinforce their own power. Girls are used to enhance a boy's rank in masculinity.

and:

"When teachers intervene in connection with boys' sexual harassment of girls and the boys responded with "It's only a joke," teachers often did not challenge the boys' retort, thereby disregarding the girls' complaints and both supporting and reinforcing the boys' sense of entitlement and control."

and:

"When girls hear sexist and derogatory comments aimed at a boy with female characteristics, it both strengthens masculinity and devalues femininity. The comments challenge a boy's masculinity by explicitly or implicitly attacking a feminine characteristic of the targeted boy. The comments devalue girls when the female characteristic is used to devalue boys. Girls at school are within a social culture of violence towards girls - just because they are girls. Therefore, attending school in an evnironment in which abusive behavior flourishes and goes unabated reinforces girls' vulnerable position in society, as well as in their school environment."

and:

"Schools implicitly support patriarchy. They do so by allowing male entitlement, bullying, and sexual harassment, enforcing traditional masculinity regarding GLBT students. When sexism and sexist systems are not challenged, as in the school environment, then day-to-day practices are invisible and accepted, thereby reproducing inequality and patriarchy."

I think an important point to make is that these behaviors are performances of gender - of masculinity - that are done for the the consumption of one's peers. In her ethnographic study of one California high school, sociologist C.J. Pascoe was struck by the disparity between the way boys talked about girls in private with her or how girls said their boyfriends talked to them when they were alone, and the abusive, sexist, and hurtful ways that the boys treated girls while in group settings.

Thus far this chapter has focused on boys who treated girls as resources to be mobilized for their own masculinity projects, but not all boys engaged in practices of compulsive heterosexuality at all times. Most boys engaged in these sorts of practices only when in groups, and some boys avoided them in general.

When not in groups - when in one-on-one interactions with boys or girls- boys were much less likely to engage in gendered and sexed dominance practices. In this sense boys became masculine in groups (Connell 1996; Woody 2002). With the exception of Chad, none of the boys spoke to me the way they spoke with other boys about girls, girls' bodies, and their own sexual adventures. In one-on-one situations with me (and possibly with each other) they often spoke touchingly about their feelings and insecurities with girls. While the boys I interviewed, for the most part, asserted the centrality of sexual competence to a masculine self, several of them rejected this definition or at least talked differently about girls and sexuality in their interviews.​

In order to address what the sort of behaviors this girl is experiencing, we have to talk about boys and more positive forms of masculinity that aren't predicated on the mistreatment or marginalization of women or sexual minorities.
 

kewlmyc

Member
men really are the worst, we need to find a way to stop them

Not sure if this is bait but I'll bite. You're no better than the "men" you hate so much if you think that all men behave like the men in the article. People are raised differently, people act differently, no one is the same. Saying an entire group is rotten or bad due to a few bad apples is prejudice and disgusting.
 

Oozinator

Banned
Guys are just being guys under the influence of their male instincts. Besides, nobody forces girls to starve in order to stay thin. They do it because they want to be attractive to males.
 

EVOL 100%

Member
hmm, that's interesting. I see feminism as fighting against problems inherent in society. Most men are doing nothing wrong, and are probably feminists themselves. I'm still surprised at how angry people get.

Going by experience it's either 'Fuck you I got mine' or people basing their opinions on feminism by the minor, albeit loudest fringe extremist groups. Either way, those responses are pretty sad.

Guys are just being guys under the influence of their male instincts.

not sure if serious

Besides, nobody forces girls to starve in order to stay thin.

Peer pressure is a helluva thing
 

Snowman

Member
hmm, that's interesting. I see feminism as fighting against problems inherent in society. Most men are doing nothing wrong, and are probably feminists themselves. I'm still surprised at how angry people get.

Yeah, you're right, I think a lot of it is just people being misinformed as to what feminism actually is which I don't think is necessarily their fault, I mean they should probably look into it a bit before calling people bitches for getting involved in a feminist society but still.
 

hiryu64

Member
If you thought the fight for female equality was over, I'm sorry to tell you that a whole new round is only just beginning.

If I had to distill the OP into a single sentence, this would be it.
 
With the boys feeling pressured thing.

I remember back in high school (or middle school), when I was riding the bus, a boy was harassing another over something. After a while, it got quite annoying, so I told the bully to shut up. Unfortunately, this had the opposite effect. The poor kid was mocked for having a girl defend him, and he shot me a glare.

High school sucked. :/
 
Guys are just being guys under the influence of their male instincts. Besides, nobody forces girls to starve in order to stay thin. They do it because they want to be attractive to males.

Well, my male instincts have never told me to write something like "bitches should keep their bitchiness to their bitch-selves." So maybe my instincts are broken. But it's nice to know that you think overt misogyny is just cause "boys will be boys."

Edit: or have I fallen victim to Poe's Law? I really hope so.
 
Guys are just being guys under the influence of their male instincts. Besides, nobody forces girls to starve in order to stay thin. They do it because they want to be attractive to males.
Haha, wow.
Even if you're joking, this is just disturbing.
EDIT: Going by your username and avatar, shitty attempt at tag fishing.
 

quaere

Member
Teenagers are morons, who knew? Nothing is ever going to change that. I support the school in this one. Sit down and learn, keep out of trouble and change the world later when you know a little more about it.
 

Unbounded

Member
Yeah, you're right, I think a lot of it is just people being misinformed as to what feminism actually is which I don't think is necessarily their fault, I mean they should probably look into it a bit before calling people bitches for getting involved in a feminist society but still.

I'd say the fault lies on feminism for not being able to effectively portray that it's about equality of the sexes versus the idea that it's merely for the benefit of women and women alone.
 
Teenagers are morons, who knew? Nothing is ever going to change that. I support the school in this one. Sit down and learn, keep out of trouble and change the world later when you know a little more about it.
"ohh my gosh you guys theyre just teenagers oh my good they wont do anything bad their views will magically change overtime lol you guys omg!"
 

Enron

Banned
Guys are just being guys under the influence of their male instincts. Besides, nobody forces girls to starve in order to stay thin. They do it because they want to be attractive to males.

I don't know about all that, but realize that these aren't adults we are talking about here, but a bunch of shithead 15-18 year olds.
 

Satch

Banned
Teenagers are morons, who knew? Nothing is ever going to change that. I support the school in this one. Sit down and learn, keep out of trouble and change the world later when you know a little more about it.

I think it is counter intuitive to teach people to sit down and take abuse in the most formative years of their lives, and then expect them to be able to easily meander out of that fog at some arbitrarily chosen moment - later, whenever that is.
 
Outwit them and humiliate them, if they try to get physical, beat the hell out of them.
Then you'll estabilish something.
And of course, a cohesive pack is harder to take down. Find weak elements and destroy them.
 

Dead Man

Member
Jesus, regardless of what your opinion on feminism is, even if you think they are utterly wrong and unneeded, that is not the way to go about disproving them. Fucking idiots.
 

EulaCapra

Member
High school really is the worst. This is pretty disgusting.

And while we're here, some of the GAF thread topics could use this story as a lesson.
 

Snowman

Member
I'd say the fault lies on feminism for not being able to effectively portray that it's about equality of the sexes versus the idea that it's merely for the benefit of women and women alone.

That sounds like you're attributing the blame to feminism as a whole rather than what i hope you actually meant which is that it's the fault of the "extreme feminists", like the ones who talk about how much they hate men and how bad men are and stuff, which im not sure even really exist and are definitely not the majority.
 

Nesotenso

Member
read this earlier today in the Guardian. sad situation.

I went to a school with a separate wings for boys and girls. Being in all male environment was pretty fun and I would like to think most of us turned out all right. Shame about the situation here.
 

quaere

Member
I think it is counter intuitive to teach people to sit down and take abuse in the most formative years of their lives, and then expect them to be able to easily meander out of that fog at some arbitrarily chosen moment - later, whenever that is.
They wouldn't have to endure abuse if they weren't outspoken about their message and ignored a few catcalls. There's a reason there's no free speech or democracy for minors. It would be nice if you could create a social movement to change teenage kids not to be hateful little monsters but that's just not going to happen.
 

iRouge

Neo Member
Despite her good intentions, she set herself and her peers up to fail. 17 year old boys in today's society are no more mature than secondary school students. 'Banter' is entertainment, everything is a subject for it and twitter has become the 21st century microphone for anything and everything.

Some men in society are ego driven, and a lot believe feminism reduces their alpha male standpoint. Feminism has so many negative connotations assigned to it, and of course not many 17 year olds would even understand what feminism really is. Knowing this, I would never assign that name to a school society, because kids would be immature about it, and insults and bullying would be an inevitable result. Had I been her or a teacher, I would advise that they should have either taken a general approach to Equalism, including other groups also that face social discrimination, while highlighting her cause. Hearing 'A student in an all girls school has started a feminist group.' Definitely would not spark a positive response as opposed to 'A student in an all girls school starts equal rights group.'

As I said, good intension, mistake in execution.

When I was 15, me and my friends had a secret little feminist group, but that quickly got disbanded when we decided to quite simply, treat guys the way we were treated, rather than forcing them to treat us in a particular way.

'A group of men in a car started wolf-whistling and shouting sexual remarks at my friends and me. I asked the men if they thought it was appropriate for them to be abusing a group of 17-year-old girls. The response was furious. The men started swearing at me, called me a bitch and threw a cup coffee over me.'

That response challenged their alpha male ego, result was violence. Better solution, do it back, if they're treating you like a bag of meat, treat them like a bag of bone...rs? Eye for an eye, there, equality. It's never as fun when it's done back, so they'll quickly lose their amusement.
 

Dead Man

Member
They wouldn't have to endure abuse if they weren't outspoken about their message and ignored a few catcalls. There's a reason there's no free speech or democracy for minors. It would be nice if you could create a social movement to change teenage kids not to be hateful little monsters but that's just not going to happen.

They wouldn't have to endure abuse if they weren't outspoken? Jesus, since when has being outspoken made abuse justifiable?
 
They wouldn't have to endure abuse if they weren't outspoken about their message and ignored a few catcalls. There's a reason there's no free speech or democracy for minors. It would be nice if you could create a social movement to change teenage kids not to be hateful little monsters but that's just not going to happen.

Shut up about the way people tend to treat you like a piece of meat solely their for their pleasure, or else they will do it more!

Edit: Okay, seriously, there IS a defense force for everything. She is failing because she isn't doing it nicely and sweetly enough?
 

Yado

Member
They wouldn't have to endure abuse if they weren't outspoken about their message and ignored a few catcalls. There's a reason there's no free speech or democracy for minors. It would be nice if you could create a social movement to change teenage kids not to be hateful little monsters but that's just not going to happen.

The abuse is a part of why they were trying to be outspoken to begin with. Since when was "sit down and shut up" an effective way to combat social issues?
 

Kazerei

Banned
Despite her good intentions, she set herself and her peers up to fail. 17 year old boys in today's society are no more mature than secondary school students. 'Banter' is entertainment, everything is a subject for it and twitter has become the 21st century microphone for anything and everything.

.

17 year olds aren't kids. They are old enough that we should expect them to be mature adults, instead of excusing their childish behaviour.
 

Snowman

Member
17 year olds aren't kids. They are old enough that we should expect them to be mature adults, instead of excusing their childish behaviour.

I dunno, I think we should expect them to act like 17 year olds, while hoping and pushing to minimise their childish behavior as much as possible.
 
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