They couldn't impose those conditions, but that's not the point. The influence is more subtle.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ubisoft gave journalists a free Nexus 7 at a Watchdogs Preview event.
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
figadapaura
Member
It's not a real bribe unless the bag has a $ sign on it.
Lalalandia
Member
By the way all of the scenarios you describe absolutely are examples of attempts to influence people. A great example here are doctors and the millions spent on bringing them to conferences in exotic holiday spots and in 5 star hotels, guess what all these 'not bribes' drive much higher prescription rates for these products. Even when there are identical generic versions of the drug available.
We entertain customers to drive behaviour at my company and this is why we spend that money. We never have to say 'buy our product' but if we've spent a lot of money on entertaining you and talking about our product then it's pretty obvious what we want. I work at a company that would regard even a gift in the price range of a Nexus 7 as a serious violation of ethical standards. We actually have a $10 rule, if it costs more than that legal has to sign off.
We sell to a lot of government agencies which means that we come under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act which is clearly far outside the scope of what we are discussing here. It is useful as a baseline for what behaviour is not designed to improperly influence someone to buy or recommend goods or services. The gift of a Nexus 7 in this case would trigger a world of hurt.
Some have mentioned the Al-Yammamah deal BAe had to supply services and weapons to the Saudis, that deal is corrupt as all hell but the selling of weapons is a very dirty game. The investigation was dropped because firing tens of thousands workers in the UK was too politically unattractive compared to basically acknowledging that the UK government gives no****s about being known as a corrupt arms dealer. Weapons deals are rife with this stuff, I don't think there's been a single large arms deal in decades that didn't have shady 'consultancy' fees at the very least (Al-Yammahmah has been reliably reported as including several private Airbus aircraft as sweeteners), hell even Sweden's Bofors has been in the hot water.
Of course is not a bribe. Ubisoft is famous for doing charity with journalist.
schaft0620
Member
My company spent $1.2 mil on Windows 8 tablets from a Microsoft store and our sales rep laugh's at me when I bring up the idea of us "testing out" an Xbox One.
tringworldso
Member
By this strict definition, a perk could also be classed as a Bribe. For example; a perk not gained from within the company I work for, but is gained because of the industry I work in, could influence me and effect my conduct in several ways.
It has more second screen stuff than AC4.
Mobile users are able to invade and play against console/PC gamers.
SirUltimos
Member
LewieP made an excellent point on Twitter: Keep in mind that the only reason we know this happened in the first place is because journalists told us about it. This event shows that corruption is at work in the industry, but it also shows that there's some very good, very honest people out there.
Don't condemn gaming journalism as a whole. Just condemn the individuals.
Don't condemn gaming journalism as a whole. Just condemn the individuals.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Because it does influence people, they don't need to make deals on review scores. They don't do these things if they didn't work.
Youtubers are a growing sector and they usually aren't as "professional" as some sites that cover gaming.
Even if it only influenced a small proportion of people, it would be worth it
Please Jason, do you really believe your fellow game journos at IGN & co have higher standards? Just look at the image a few posts above yours....
This is why games journalism can't be called games journalism, there's pretty much no ethics involved. Maybe times have changed but I remember a class in school where a teacher told us about being impartial and how you, as a journalist, couldn't accept obvious gifts if you're doing coverage on that particular company. Like Company A giving you free plane tickets, first class, all expenses paid for. That sort of shit.
Good to see several publications giving it away to charity or refusing to accept it at all though
.
Edit: Didn't Sony hand out free Vitas at one point? Or was that Nintendo with the 3DSes, I remember the 3DS units attached to beautiful women.
Good to see several publications giving it away to charity or refusing to accept it at all though
.Edit: Didn't Sony hand out free Vitas at one point? Or was that Nintendo with the 3DSes, I remember the 3DS units attached to beautiful women.
no, not really.
Aaaaaand that's how you get blacklisted for review events, folks.
SlowRevolution
Member
Want to make it totally clear that I'm not saying this guy/site in particular isn't going to give his charity or anything, that would be a really shitty thing to accuse him of, and obviously charity is great and all. I kind of have an issue with this whole "don't worry we're just going to give it to charity" answer whenever something like this happens, though. It always feels like a half-solution. This isn't going to stop these huge companies from giving away shit like this. Gifts that have a price like $200 need to get declined/returned at the event, if it's inconvenient or Ubisoft is rushing you or whatever that sucks for you and it sucks having to deal with it in the first place, but at the same time I don't really care. Figure out if the box they hand you is swag that's basically junk or if it's got something like a Nexus 7 that'll put readers in a position where they question your ethics, and deal with it at the event. It doesn't seem like going home and then trying to find a solution is a great way to stress that this isn't something journalists are interested in.
Whereas I find trying to meet midway with people and trying to have a discussion with them about is a pretty good way. I'd find it more insecure if he was insulting about it or was defensive in a way that was destructive (which we've certainly seen out of others). He's written articles about it, asked for constructive criticism and typically goes into threads asking about the context of these situations. I don't see insecurity with that at all and find that he typically adds to these discussions rather than detracts from them.
Well, its obviously not a bride.
Syph Medwes
Member
Dan Hsu's!
too bad he doesn't review games anymore for the most part
We need the old EGM back. I miss those days.
Yeah I'm not seeing the problem here. It's a Nexus 7, big deal. Were people like this when Sony gave away free PS+ subscriptions to people who attended their E3 conference a while back?
Yes, it is. Why do you think those companies spent all that money on gifts for journalists? They have measurable data that the practice actually is influential.
Reminds me when Microsoft gave all the press in the audience one of the new Xbox 360s. I remember it pissing me off at the time because I had gone through 3 Xbox 360s because of the red ring of death, and had to pay for the last one to be fixed because I had gone over the 3 !/2 year guarantee by that time. I was annoyed at having to pay for it to be fixed because of the inherently flawed design of the 360.
It just seemed like a bit of a kick in the teeth to me. I wouldn't have minded if it was average gamers in the audience, it would have seemed like a nice gesture, but it seems they would rather do it to a more privileged, exclusive bunch who are lucky enough to work in a games-related industry. Not the people they needed to reach at the time.
It just seemed like a bit of a kick in the teeth to me. I wouldn't have minded if it was average gamers in the audience, it would have seemed like a nice gesture, but it seems they would rather do it to a more privileged, exclusive bunch who are lucky enough to work in a games-related industry. Not the people they needed to reach at the time.
dragonbane
Member
Nope. It's actually very unlikely. Most major outlets require the previewer and reviewer to be different persons most of the time.
thewhitehawk
Member
If humans couldn't hack rocks you wouldn't be using a computer today.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Let's not forget the completely different level of customer service the game bloggers were getting during that fiasco. It's no wonder that they swept so much of that under the rug.
chickdigger802
Banned
wait its part of a press kit... people made it seem like Ubisoft Operah that shit.
Don't journalists get all kinds of nonsense from press kits like that giant skyrim statue?
Don't journalists get all kinds of nonsense from press kits like that giant skyrim statue?
Are you going to elaborate?
Why do you think Ubi put the mints in the bag? Out of the kindness of their hearts???
Your posts are pretty incoherent. You're arguing that someone with a direct experience in the subject should not be given a voice, because they have an inherent bias. Further, you say if they do speak, they should do so with anonymity, which means no one would have information regarding that bias. Then you laugh at the idea that people are able to process their perspective appropriately, something we would find impossible to do if they took your advice and did not disclose their involvement in the industry. Your pot-stirring is not adding to the conversation.btw, I'm not saying he's trying to "trick" anyone
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
how many people at these events aren't from major outlets? The other major outlets that don't do this practice makes the practice worthwhile
Indeed it can.
It's a pretty important point which a lot of people here seem to be missing then. Now if we learn of a site whereby the person going to this preview event is the same person reviewing it, and they accepted this bribe, well then the pitchforks can come out.
Exploratory
Banned
As long as they don't keep it in fine with it. That being said on Ubisofts part it's slimey as hell.
This and the lack of any kind of public hands-on for the game surely don't show too much optimism about the game from the publisher's side.
Valkerionseven
Member
I know right, some are making it seem like this is the first time its happened. People in the biz get free shit all the time. How many got free Xboxes and Playstation whatevers, games, premium items the general public would love to not pay an extra $50 for ect.
From what I can tell, standard fare for large publishers and releases.
And I disagree that that's the best or most professional way to go about it but hey, to each their own.
I don't know if it is because I just woke up or over the years I've stopped caring about all of this (due to not caring about reviews anymore) but... I'm not surprised nor am I bothered.
That said, you think this is bad, you should see what MS/Sony and the rest give to GameStop Store Managers and higher. Over the years I've received free PS3s, a PS4, Vitas, free PS+, games, movies, Xbox Ones, and more. These are the people who speak directly with customers at a store level so those bribes are probably much more successful than any goodies given to a video game website. lol
Sadly, most of those gifts were worthless to a PC gamer. =x
That said, you think this is bad, you should see what MS/Sony and the rest give to GameStop Store Managers and higher. Over the years I've received free PS3s, a PS4, Vitas, free PS+, games, movies, Xbox Ones, and more. These are the people who speak directly with customers at a store level so those bribes are probably much more successful than any goodies given to a video game website. lol
Sadly, most of those gifts were worthless to a PC gamer. =x
It doesn't matter who goes. The companies shouldn't be accepting any gifts at all.
It always irks me when publications proclaim that they won't be bought, and will donate stuff to charity/give it away.
In a way, taking the supposed 'bribe' and publicly getting rid of it (charity, giveaway, contest etc.) is pretty much just as bad as taking it and keeping it. Instead of getting paid off with a trinket, they are getting paid off in audience good will (with the 'briber' playing the part of the bad guy).
If it's there don't take it, if it's sent to you send it back and make them decide what to do with it.
Lalalandia
Member
If they put a set of keys to a car in the press kit would that make it OK? It doesn't matter how you label a thing if it's above a nominal value (think posters, mugs, t-shirts et al) it's an attempt to influence them aka a bribe.
Yea, someone SHOULD do some research on that. Maybe even investigate and write an article like an, oh I dont know, journalist maybe. Also your previous post was extremely insulting to Europeans and misleading. What did Kotaku do with their Batarang stand and slim 360?
These tweets people have saying they will give them away or sell them for charity gives me no reassurance either. If someone didnt have the integrity to not take it to begin with why should i just trust they are going to get rid of a free tablet? They should have refused it right there to send a clear messge to pub bribery wont work and shouldn't be tolerated.
Symax
Member
Gaming "journalists" or more precisely "bloggers" are corrupt but thats only one part of the problem. They'r are only as important as the amount of people who is reading their reviews. A score system is in itself a corrupt system and everyone who ever supported this shit has to face the consequences.