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Ubisoft gave journalists a free Nexus 7 at a Watchdogs Preview event.
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
CambriaRising
Member
This is not the first thread about this sort of thing. Upholding the status quo of shitty practices just because they have existed for a while is useless. It is a literal call to shut down discussion and dissension.
dragonbane
Member
Certainly possible. Since it was made public in this case I doubt anyone will tho.
Haha. I guess that's your opinion of GAF then.
To...
Luckily there's an understanding in society at large that salesmen are not to be trusted. The same doesn't usually go for journalists in free countries.
Nymphae
Banned
Youtube impressions & forums have been a better place for review information for years now. I think the big guys are still around purely for forum dwellers to argue about, no one really cares what a professional critic thinks. Or rather, very few people need them anymore like they were needed in the EGM days. They just stir up shit nowadays.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Bloody hell. And people wonder why games journalists get a bad name.
Plus the avarice of Ubisoft here is outrageously shocking. I shouldn't be surprised anymore.
Plus the avarice of Ubisoft here is outrageously shocking. I shouldn't be surprised anymore.
Of course they did. I don't know the exact details of US journalists etc, but they paid for my train ticket and one night at a hotel there. Honestly, I don't consider that a plus or anything. If they're hosting an event all the way in Paris, it's only normal they pay for my train from Belgium > France. And since it was too late to return home after the event, a place to sleep is something I consider normal as well.
I don't usually do a lot of these events though, but my editor-in-chief asked me if I wanted to go and I wanted to try Watch_Dogs anyway. Also gave me the opportunity to interview Jonathan Morin and ask some questions from fellow gaffers. The gameplay and interview is all I care about tbh, don't give a shit about the rest.
If the game is shit, a free train ride and hotel visit won't change my opinion. I can see how handing out a free Nexus 7 might make that hard to believe, but I didn't get one anyway so eh. But in the OP some sites were handing them to charity etc... so I don't think that every site that got one thinks it was an OK thing to do. That said, even if I got one... if I didn't like the game, I still wouldn't have liked the game. I can't speak for every 'journalist' out there but I only base my opinion off what I played/saw.
Firstly, thank you for bringing something more to the table with this discussion. That comment was not meant as a softener to influence your opinion. lol
The acceptance of material gifts always raises an eyebrow outside of other equally if not more lavish 'non-material gifts'. Weapon Trade, Pharmaceuticals and Finance are all industries where extreme amounts of money are thrown a round in this fashion. It often looks a lot more shady on paper than what really is the norm. There is so much grey area and between ethical debates, you also have sensationalism from journalists thrown into the mix. Its a minefield.
But if we only know how and who because of a few, how do we condemn those we don't know?
Praise the ones breaking this story and disclosing shady practices I say. Light shines brightly onto the dark. Making those taking these bribes uncomfortable and looking lousy compared to their peers is also a good way of instituting some self regulation.
If you know someone how took one, say so. This kind of thing needs to be disclosed at the very minimum. After all, if its no big deal why keep it secret or hidden? Jurnos taking these bribes and not disclosing it know exactly what's up, which is why they keep it on the DL.
Now this begs the question: the event was last week... if they were going to give the gift to charity or if they just didn't accept it... why wasn't this whole thing known beforehand? Why so many members of the press think that Ubisoft gifting tablets at a preview event shouldn't be discussed, frowned upon, or even simply made known?
As usual it has to be a fan or somebody out of the loop to let the thing come out in the open. If all the guys involved in the event just came out outright saying what happened and that they refused, the whole thing would have been way more clear. Also that would've singled out the ones who did accept, to the benefit of the "good journalists" and of the readers.
I'd happily take a free tablet and critique a game just as harshly as I would anyway. If an event gift is genuinely going to sway your opinion on a game then you shouldn't be reviewing games in the first place. Not taking the gift as part of some higher stance and personal crusade on behalf of the industry just means...you don't get a free gift. This is as big of a deal as people want to make it at the end of the day.
Messofanego
Banned
Don't be naive. They're more likely to be bribed than journalists, since they don't have any standards. I wouldn't really rely on their opinions, to be honest.
Remember EA and Battlefield 4 paying Youtubers to say good things about the launch? Machinima paying youtubers $3 per 1000 views for promoting Xbox One coverage with tagging "XB1M13" on videos?
thewhitehawk
Member
So the public relations people behind a game that is partially a social commentary of the dangers of an increasingly more connected society decided to indiscreetly slip a $200 piece of hardware, among other things and are subject to the same issues that consumers will face in the product they are trying to promote.
Part of me wants to comment in the irony of it all but I think that this is yet another strong piece of evidence that PR firms are solidly disconnected and unaware of exactly what they're trying to sell and all they care about is how much money they can make. The dust has barely settled after Jim Sterling's last Jimquisition but once again this is an affirmation that he is completely correct. Thank God for him!
Part of me wants to comment in the irony of it all but I think that this is yet another strong piece of evidence that PR firms are solidly disconnected and unaware of exactly what they're trying to sell and all they care about is how much money they can make. The dust has barely settled after Jim Sterling's last Jimquisition but once again this is an affirmation that he is completely correct. Thank God for him!
If you think YouTube is a good place to get impressions that haven't been influenced by publishers and swag, well, I've got some bad news for you...
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Jason, were you there when they gave out the Xbox 360 S model to those that attended their press conference at E3?
I'd hope when he says youtube impressions he means joe public, not "massive youtube celebrity review channel"
I went there with Belgian, Dutch and some Polish/Swedish journalists. Not a single one of us received a Nexus 7.
Because they're such cool guys right?
SlowRevolution
Member
saying you'd be just as harsh is great and all, and I doubt these guys are actively writing their reviews thinking "they gave me stuff so I'm going to give this game a good score", but gifts - anything from free food to 200 dollar tablets - having a psychological effect on people is a real thing. some of it's mostly unavoidable and that's understandable, but that doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist.
Nymphae
Banned
I'm not saying that doesn't happen, I'm just saying I can go to youtube and see dozens of people play a game, the day it comes out. I can get a good idea of how a game plays and if I'll like it or not, simply from watching different people talk about it and play it. This to me is more valuable than game journalist's written opinions. I do find some enjoyable to read and think about, but at the end of the day, I no longer look to professional reviews as any sort of buying guide.
They should get with the times and only accept .webm
It's like people have already forgotten XB1M13. Though it's not that hard to find someone with an honest opinion, just find the guys with less than 5000 subs. They aren't worth anything to publishers. (and I speak from experience on that)
Do you know what sites they work for..? because it sounds even more stupid if they only gave a Nexus 7 to certain sites like Videogamer, Eurogamer etc..
robovanburen
Member
My main takeway from this is "what a fucking waste of money." I really don't think these companies get the sort of measurable returns that they think they're getting by throwing this swag around.
They absolutely do need to report it to the IRS, especially if they receive a 1099-MISC from Ubisoft if the value of the tablet is $600+.
chickdigger802
Banned
its every industry. you got marketing budget that you gotta use or next time you have less.
it sucks, but what can you do?
spookyfish
Member
This. NeoGAF is my only source of reviews. Between "the greatest ever!" and "piece of crap" are some pretty decent recommendations. Reviews are so tainted now, it's not even worth it.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Ethics are a personal thing to be sure, and I tend to be a hard liner about this stuff, but I think it's important to set strict boundaries. Once you make one compromise, it's easy to make another, and another, and so forth.
All the sites mentioned seem to be UK based, I wouldn't be surprised if this was an UK-only thing. Makes me wonder why though.
I chuckled.
runnin_blue
Banned
And i found the image:
Ryan MaCaffrey is a joke anyway. The quicker he is gone from IGN, the better.
Can you even trust GAF anymore? Sometimes the OT is so nuts, it reads like an official website.
They have people everywhere...
I kid. =)
Dark Octave
Banned
Free PS4s and phones. Flown out to conventions and parties. Paid to play games all day and give an opinion about them.
I chose the wrong career path.
I chose the wrong career path.
Lalalandia
Member
Yup 'non-material' gifts are often the most insidious and effective ways to influence people which is why I find Ubisoft sweetening the pot with a free Nexus 7 so stupid. I mean they've already made these individuals feel welcome with flights and hotel accommodation ($10 says the flight wasn't Ryanair and the hotel wasn't an Ibis) why bring a spotlight to these 'perks' with an obvious gift that anyone would regard as excessive?
You're not wrong on the scale of gifts though, gaming looks positively mean given that it's thought at least €20 millions were thrown around by HDW to get the greek submarine deal (http://www.spiegel.de/international...bribed-their-way-to-greek-deals-a-693973.html) and the untold billions these practices have cost pharmaceutical companies in the US (http://www.denverpost.com/investiga...firms-have-used-dangerous-tactics-drive-sales).
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Not a surprise, anyone remember Dan Hsu writing on this subject some years back?
EDIT: Found his blog about it. http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=6228583&publicUserId=5379799
Think I had a EGM subscription at the time.
EDIT: Found his blog about it. http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=6228583&publicUserId=5379799
Think I had a EGM subscription at the time.
"message board"
also
"every time"
Even if it does occur with bigger outlets, it's still unprofessional. That pic also lacks context such as what outlet it's being printed in, where the accusation was made, etc. Seeing as how it's in print media though, there could be any number of explanations. It looks like either a response in a letter column, which would be a completely appropriate place to address such an accusation, or an entry into a letter column, which is indeed a bit petty and could have been stated through a better avenue.
Any field where being impartial as possible with products is a must; accepting "gifts" from people that are trying to sell you something is almost always a big nono, it is imperative that you remain as impartial as possible in relation to that companies advertisements and the game.
Companies that keep/still send out gifts are not doing it to be nice, they do it because they see a rate of return that makes it worth it. Also, comparing a media industry that lives off reviews and previews to any other non product review/preview/endorsement industry is being pretty ignorant of why it is different(advertisement and marketing work on everyone to some degree). As for the Thief argument that "well it got a 6/10", that argument would only work if 6/10 was the lowest it could have gone. Maybe the reviews would have been even more harsh and/or the scores even lower if there wasnt a perception of partnership/friendship or some other non product related reason for given them a, higher then you would otherwise, score(and/or you might have written harsher things). Gifts, travel events, press kits, and ect are forms of nonrational influence marketing advertisement and it has been proven, through studies, to have real influence on individuals.
Nobody is immune to these sort of things(gifts and advertisement in general), you are not immune to it, everyone just reacts different to different forms of advertisement, but it still effects you. And the fact that game companies still do press events(like being sent to nice area's and ect), press kits, gifts, oh and also hiring from said media field, along with other random things, infers them spending money on these sort of things still has a rate of return worth investing in. So everyone who actually chimes in and says "oh it doesn't matter" or "it doesn't effect me" are part of the problem and are either lying or ignorant to all the psychological reasoning behind these corporations "gifts".
As for the government being a totally different situations... In terms of positions sure, but the reasoning behind why you cant still is the same. Objectivity is, in part, lost. People who argue otherwise are probably the same people who think advertisement doesn't effect them.
One of the firs things I had to do after joining my most recent company was take training for Business Ethical Conduct - at the time I found a lot of the situations I had to study completely laughable, but I guess I can appreciate that they might not be as "obvious" to everyone now.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I knew marketing people did kind of dinners and hotel stay to journalists, bribery is rampant. Ubisoft is pretty shameless.