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The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt - E3 2014 Trailer - The Sword Of Destiny

C

CadetMahoney

Member
Dries said:
Isn't PC the lead platform?
Click to expand...
JaseC said:
Yes.
Click to expand...

GbUuuwT.png
*phew* was getting worried there.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
JaseC said:
Yeah, I'm aware that AMD hasn't been competitive with Intel's higher-end offerings since Core2Duo. Thinking back to that makes me feel old, actually -- it's been almost a decade. But AMD's CPUs do keep up with the Joneses in consistently heavy multi-threaded scenarios (although games are obviously less consistent in their CPU usage than, say, something like archive decompression).
Click to expand...

One Jaguar core is more than 4 times slower than 1 Haswell core which means that you need only 2 Haswell cores to get the same performance as on an 8 cores PS4/XBO Jaguar CPU.
A Haswell quad core is already two times more powerful than PS4/XBO CPUs. You don't need to have 8 cores to have the same performance as other 8 cores CPU.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
dr_rus said:
One Jaguar core is more than 4 times slower than 1 Haswell core which means that you need only 2 Haswell cores to get the same performance as on an 8 cores PS4/XBO Jaguar CPU.
A Haswell quad core is already two times more powerful than PS4/XBO CPUs. You don't need to have 8 cores to have the same performance as other 8 cores CPU.
Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to the Jaguar line in my post. I'm acutely aware it's slower than even what AMD offers in the desktop space (which isn't surprising as both MS and Sony favoured profitability over power). My original point was simply that Intel's upcoming Haswell-E line has more than enough grunt to handle whatever heavily multi-threaded scenarios developers throw into games with ease whereas, say, a four-thread 2500K isn't going to be sufficient forever just because the Jaguar's per-core performance is less than ideal. To put it another way, I was speaking less to how the line compares with the Jaguar directly and more to how it's well-equipped to handle an increase in thread utilisation on the PC side as a result of developers needing to be particularly crafty to overcome the Jaguar's lacklustre performance.
 
C

CyberPunked

Member
ricochetguro said:
I cannot wait to see the performance when they add the physx wolves in.
Click to expand...

It's not just wolves, but all in-game fur. So other animals such as bears, horses, monsters and also fur on armor too. It is also up to Nvidia if they allow these features to be available on AMD cards, as they do not use CUDA cores(PhysX), but Direct Compute.
 
iNvid02

iNvid02

Member
it was only after replaying TW2 did I realize how much stuff I had missed out on during my first playthrough, that second run cemented it as one of my favourite
RPGS ever. this is easily my most anticipated game in a long, long time, getting ready for a rig upgrade late this year too, mostly for this game.

pretty cool that they give you a few pieces from the soundtrack for pre-ordering this on GOG, hunt or be hunted is epic, as is that trailer, just perfect.

also i have some preorder bonuses i dont want - just post if you take em.

witcher dark horse comic code (quote to reveal)
https://digital.darkhorse.com/accounts/login/?next=/redeem/


Neverwinter Nights: Diamond Edition (GOG) (quote to reveal)
https://secure.gog.com/redeem
 
B

BakkaGames

Member
iNvid02 said:
it was only after replaying TW2 did I realize how much stuff I had missed out on during my first playthrough, that second run cemented it as one of my favourite
RPGS ever. this is easily my most anticipated game in a long, long time, getting ready for a rig upgrade late this year too, mostly for this game.

pretty cool that they give you a few pieces from the soundtrack for pre-ordering this on GOG, hunt or be hunted is epic, as is that trailer, just perfect.

also i have some preorder bonuses i dont want - just post if you take em.

witcher dark horse comic code (quote to reveal)
https://digital.darkhorse.com/accounts/login/?next=/redeem/


Neverwinter Nights: Diamond Edition (GOG) (quote to reveal)
https://secure.gog.com/redeem
Click to expand...

I got the Neverwinter Nights code. Thank you!
 
F

flaxknuckles

Member
iNvid02 said:
it was only after replaying TW2 did I realize how much stuff I had missed out on during my first playthrough, that second run cemented it as one of my favourite
RPGS ever. this is easily my most anticipated game in a long, long time, getting ready for a rig upgrade late this year too, mostly for this game.

pretty cool that they give you a few pieces from the soundtrack for pre-ordering this on GOG, hunt or be hunted is epic, as is that trailer, just perfect.

also i have some preorder bonuses i dont want - just post if you take em.

witcher dark horse comic code (quote to reveal)
https://digital.darkhorse.com/accounts/login/?next=/redeem/


Neverwinter Nights: Diamond Edition (GOG) (quote to reveal)
https://secure.gog.com/redeem
Click to expand...

Thanks man, I got the comic boke
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
JaseC said:
I wasn't referring to the Jaguar line in my post. I'm acutely aware it's slower than even what AMD offers in the desktop space (which isn't surprising as both MS and Sony favoured profitability over power). My original point was simply that Intel's upcoming Haswell-E line has more than enough grunt to handle whatever heavily multi-threaded scenarios developers throw into games with ease whereas, say, a four-thread 2500K isn't going to be sufficient forever just because the Jaguar's per-core performance is less than ideal. To put it another way, I was speaking less to how the line compares with the Jaguar directly and more to how it's well-equipped to handle an increase in thread utilisation on the PC side as a result of developers needing to be particularly crafty to overcome the Jaguar's lacklustre performance.
Click to expand...

4 cores CPU which is at least 2 times more powerful than an 8 core console CPU will provide much better cores utilization on 8 threads than an 8 core CPU which will be at least 4 times as powerful. Generally speaking a 1 core CPU which is as powerful as an 8 cores CPU is always better from the utilization perspective.

But if we're talking about the better utilization of multiple CPU cores with the introduction of 8 cores consoles - yes, this will happen if hasn't already. But still the point remains - a quad core Haswell should be able to handle everything possible on XBO/PS4 with relative ease. So a 2500K _will_ be sufficient forever if we're talking about running current console's CPU code. But since it's quite likely that PC versions won't always be just straight console ports - TW3 using PhysX which is somewhat CPU intensive even when using the GPU solver being the case here - it's of course clear that 2500K won't be good enough forever. But new consoles and the number of cores in their CPUs has almost nothing to do with this.
 
Dries

Dries

Member
So, which CPU would you guys recommend to people that now have 2500K's? I'm talking current CPUs and/or near-future to be released CPUs.
 
D

Dec

Member
Really don't think I like the look of this. I kind of wish they had left Ciri out of it, girls been through enough and she finally escaped it, the story ended in a satisfying way. Seems like the games will be even more cemented as fan fiction to me.
 
S

Smokey

Member
Dries said:
So, which CPU would you guys recommend to people that now have 2500K's? I'm talking current CPUs and/or near-future to be released CPUs.
Click to expand...

Your 2500k is fine. If you wanted to upgrade I'd look into the Z97 platform with a Devils Canyon CPU (i5 4690k / i7 4790k) due for release at the end of this month and early July.
 
O

ohNOitsRO

Member
Do they really have posters up already in cities? This far away from release?

This has got to be the most ridiculously polished game in quite some time
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
dr_rus said:
But if we're talking about the better utilization of multiple CPU cores with the introduction of 8 cores consoles - yes, this will happen if hasn't already.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I was talking about.

But still the point remains - a quad core Haswell should be able to handle everything possible on XBO/PS4 with relative ease. So a 2500K _will_ be sufficient forever if we're talking about running current console's CPU code. But since it's quite likely that PC versions won't always be just straight console ports - TW3 using PhysX which is somewhat CPU intensive even when using the GPU solver being the case here - it's of course clear that 2500K won't be good enough forever.
Click to expand...

Yes, that was precisely my point. Again, I wasn't directly comparing Haswell to the Jaguar.

But new consoles and the number of cores in their CPUs has almost nothing to do with this.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I mean, sure, engines have been utilising (albeit not necessarily effectively) multiple cores for quite some time now, but the Jaguar's per-core performance means that multi-threading is more important than ever and so it's only natural that this will also impact PC development. AssCreed 3 bounces jobs around eight cores, for example, but nonetheless it's still quite CPU limited as it doesn't actually take advantage of the extra power -- CPU utilisation just drops the more cores you allow the game to have.

Anyway, while the discussion of "What will my PC need to run this game?" is tangentially related to the topic at hand, multi-threading as a general concept is not, so best we agree to disagree on that last point.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
Dries said:
So, which CPU would you guys recommend to people that now have 2500K's? I'm talking current CPUs and/or near-future to be released CPUs.
Click to expand...
I would recommend to upgrade your GPU instead. 2500K is fine and will be fine for another year at least.

JaseC said:
I disagree. I mean, sure, engines have been utilising (albeit not necessarily effectively) multiple cores for quite some time now, but the Jaguar's per-core performance means that multi-threading is more important than ever and so it's only natural that this will also impact PC development. AssCreed 3 bounces jobs around eight cores, for example, but nonetheless it's still quite CPU limited as it doesn't actually take advantage of the extra power -- CPU utilisation just drops the more cores you allow the game to have.
Click to expand...

If a game is running 8 threads on an 8 core CPU and only loading them some 20-25% each then the game is not CPU limited. This is exactly how new consoles CPU code will load current PC 8 core CPUs - it'll be too simple for them and a game is likely to be limited by something else - be it GPU or PCIE bandwidth or some other obscure thing.
This essentially mean that a quad core like 2500K is more than fine for the new console generation games.
 
Dries

Dries

Member
dr_rus said:
I would recommend to upgrade your GPU instead. 2500K is fine and will be fine for another year at least.
Click to expand...

Lol, I just bought my 770 like a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to upgrade right before TW3 would be released but my old 6970 died a month ago, so I needed something right now. Bad luck I guess.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
Dries said:
Lol, I just bought my 770 like a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to upgrade right before TW3 would be released but my old 6970 died a month ago, so I needed something right now. Bad luck I guess.
Click to expand...

It depends on your gaming resolution and habits but generally 770 should be fine until 20nm. You can get something faster (780 or 290) but it won't be much faster anyway.
 
Dries

Dries

Member
dr_rus said:
It depends on your gaming resolution and habits but generally 770 should be fine until 20nm. You can get something faster (780 or 290) but it won't be much faster anyway.
Click to expand...

In that case I hope I'm fine. 1080p and I don't care for 60 fps.

What do you mean by getting something faster, but it won't be much faster anyway?
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
dr_rus said:
If a game is running 8 threads on an 8 core CPU and only loading them some 20-25% each then the game is not CPU limited. This is exactly how new consoles CPU code will load current PC 8 core CPUs - it'll be too simple for them and a game is likely to be limited by something else - be it GPU or PCIE bandwidth or some other obscure thing.
This essentially mean that a quad core like 2500K is more than fine for the new console generation games.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand. With AssCreed 3, the game still favours single-core performance somewhat because it dedicates consistently demanding jobs to one thread and spreads out what's left among what remains; thus there still exists the possibility of a CPU bottleneck among slower multi-core CPUs. The test the image is from uses a 4.5GHz 2500K and you can see that at times the first core fills up but there's an inconsistency with higher utilisation of other cores when this happens -- that's the very definition of a bottleneck.

Edit: To reiterate, my point was that with creative use of multi-threading being of utmost importance to multiplatform developers in order to overcome the Jaguar's poor per-core performance, we're likely to see liberal use of multiple cores also applying to future PC releases as the PS360 are left behind and so Intel's higher-end CPUs are in a very good position to benefit from this. Again, though, this isn't at all relevant to the topic and so if you'd like to respond I'd rather you did it via PM.

Dries said:
What do you mean by getting something faster, but it won't be much faster anyway?
Click to expand...

Here's a little chart that compares the average framerates of the 780 and 770:

ufACRyd.png


As you can see, the difference isn't dramatic. Unless ~$150+ is chump change I'd say the premium isn't worth it.
 
T

TheD

The Detective
JaseC said:
I disagree. I mean, sure, engines have been utilising (albeit not necessarily effectively) multiple cores for quite some time now, but the Jaguar's per-core performance means that multi-threading is more important than ever and so it's only natural that this will also impact PC development. AssCreed 3 bounces jobs around eight cores, for example, but nonetheless it's still quite CPU limited as it doesn't actually take advantage of the extra power -- CPU utilisation just drops the more cores you allow the game to have.
Click to expand...

Having a game split up into more computationally heavy threads just means that CPUs with more cores will see some benefits over CPUs with less cores (vs no benefit at all).

It does not mean that a CPU with much higher clock speed and IPC than the console baseline (with their 2 slow quad cores with two split pools of 1MB of L2 cache that have a massive performance hit if you have one of cores is one group of 4 try to access the L2 cache of the other) is going to struggle to run games written for said baseline.

The only way a good quad core would not hold up is if 6 and 8 core Intel CPUs became common and 1. Devs get complacent with the extra power PCs have and thus do not optimize the PC version very well or 2. Devs put the extra power into more CPU driven things in games, like more NPCs, better and more physics ect. and do not allow lower settings (including settings that match the consoles).
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
TheD said:
Having a game split up into more computationally heavy threads just means that CPUs with more cores will see some benefits over CPUs with less cores (vs no benefit at all).

It does not mean that a CPU with much higher clock speed and IPC than the console baseline (with their 2 slow quad cores with two split pools of 1MB of L2 cache that have a massive performance hit if you have one of cores is one group of 4 try to access the L2 cache of the other) is going to struggle to run games written for said baseline.
Click to expand...

I think directly comparing something like the 2500K to the Jaguar and declaring it's going to be fine for the entire upcoming console generation is a little naive, but time will tell.

The only way a good quad core would not hold up is if 6 and 8 core Intel CPUs became common and 1. Devs get complacent with the extra power PCs have and thus do not optimize the PC version very well or 2. Devs put the extra power into more CPU driven things in games, like more NPCs, better and more physics ect. and do not allow lower settings (including settings that match the consoles).
Click to expand...

Of course there are going to be games that favour CPUs with more cores, whether that be due to poor optimisation or, on the other side of the spectrum, engine scalability. When I said the 2500K "[isn't] going to be sufficient forever" I wasn't referring to its ability to run a game at all but rather its viability in enthusiast/gaming systems going forward (i.e. at some point it's going to become an increasingly weaker link). In hindsight I should have been clearer on that.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
SalsaShark said:
im still hopeful to run this somewhat decently with the 2 gig 680 and the Oced i5 2500k

come at me

;_;
Click to expand...

I think your 2GB VRAM is going to be more of an issue than your 2500K.

Edit: What is it today with me and stupid little mistakes.
 
S

Salsa

Member
I don't even know what my life's gonna be in 9 months but all signs points to be focusing on other stuff as to have time or money to upgrade, but yeah, gonna wait well into 8xx for sure

worst case scenario im sure the game could look great and playable with 2 gigs of vram, let's not exagerate in terms of what's good enough for each individual
 
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