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343 claims no ADS bonus in Halo 5, beta appears to demonstrate otherwise

They immediately need to:
1. Get rid of visible scopes, swap back to traditional Halo scopes.
2. Make scoping quicker.

Fuck 343 and what they are doing to Halo. This is a travesty.
 
...but that's not the case, at all.

Also, this thread title is beyond bs. I mean, if you're going to quote the guy in the OP, why are you going to mince words in the title? And yet this thread will sail on anyways.

Thread title says "343 claims no ADS bonus"
Quote says "No penalty for hipfire"

The quote is 100% correct, the gun works exactly as it does in previous Halo games. Where is the lie?

If it said "No bonus for ADS", OP would have a point, but it doesn't.

This was addressed early on.

Surely the improved accuracy of ADS constitutes hip-fire accuracy being a penalty in relative terms?

The weapon performs better scoped-in than out. There is a penalty for hip-firing. If you never played a Halo game and started off with Guardians, you would use the AR, see the difference, and feel you were being penalized for hip-firing.
 

Amir0x

Banned
oh fucking hell, of course.

I'm sure it'll be time to whip out my chart on why people are annoyed at a Halo game not being a Halo game again
 
Actually playing the beta, it really doesn't feel like a penalty to hip fire. The use of Smart Scope on automatics is highly situational; it's there to you can use them to more effectively ping distant enemies out of scope and get the drop on people in the mid-range. Hip fire is every bit as viable as ever, but now automatics are not automatically shit-tier. It's an added function, not a penalty.
 
The problem is that ADS is actually slower than the traditional scoping-in animations. There's people streaming right now, several of them have commented on it and it's been brought up numerous times on TeamBeyond already. If 343 fixes that delay and disables performance changes, then I'm all for keeping ADS. It should be an aesthetic change ONLY.

And like I just said, the autos don't need ADS boosts to be more viable options. Just make the weapon better overall, whether you're hip-firing or scoping-in.

I'm ok with just boosting the range on autos too. But then again in real life if you want a more accurate shot you aim down the sights. Zoom out no zoom. I don't know, I'm mixed in this.
 

Peterpan

Member
The logic in this thread is mindblowing. No penalty to hip-fire because it's as viable as it was in other games? Even this is wrong. If 2 people have AR's and one person is ADS and the other person is hip firing and the person who is ADS wins at a certain range because of a tighter spread, that means ADS has an advantage over hip fire, correect? That makes it less viable than in other games because using the same weapon differently trumps using the same weapon the way you did in past games. I don't give a damn about semantics and what "penalty" actually means, if ADS is better than hip fire in some situations, that makes hip fire worse in those same situations, which is exactly what everyone was afraid of. I personally csll that a penalty to hip fire.
That would make sense if the other person didn't get shot out of ADS as soon as he got shot at.
 

SlyQuaker

Banned
I really dig the mechanics of this game already. I hope they don't change too much. All weapons feel powerful. Each weapon has a specific purpose depending on how far your enemy is away from you. Its fantastic.

If I had to choose a fix I would probably fix the time it takes for the sniper to scope in. But its really not that bad.
 

LowSignal

Member
Yeah I hope they bring back the old scope built into the visor, I don't care for the new way as I feel it gets in my line of sight. I like the game so far.
 
Ads isn't that big a deal. It's there to use but with high ttk and the fact that you des cope when taking a shot it's pretty effing useless for things like the assault rifle and SMG that relys on you being near your enemie to do damage.

Are people just complaining to complain?
 

HTupolev

Member
Twisting what the guy said to mean something else doesn't make it any less full of crap.
If person A claimed: "2 is greater than 1",
and person B claimed "person A claimed that 1 is less than 2",
would you claim that person B was twisting person A's words to mean something different?

Because that's basically what you're doing here.

There's a little bit of a connotative difference, but 343i is trying to sell their product, so obviously they're going to try to state everything positively. It hardly makes the "twisted" version "wrong."
 

Head.spawn

Junior Member
Ads isn't that big a deal. It's there to use but with high ttk and the fact that you des cope when taking a shot it's pretty effing useless for things like the assault rifle and SMG that relys on you being near your enemie to do damage.

Are people just complaining to complain?

Yes.

343 simply made the gun slightly more viable at a limited range, as opposed to being about as useful as a paper-airplane past a certain distance. People keep trying to link this to CoD, but you aren't getting headshot bonus and every single person isn't sprinting around the map and stopping right in front of each other to aim down scope and hit ppl in the head. It's a completely different feel. If two ppl are standing next to each other, one is hip firing, the other is aimed down the scope, there is zero advantage for aiming down scope.

What matters is if ADS is a clear winner over hip fire at most ranges.

It's not. Even at a distance, you're getting descoped.
 

RoKKeR

Member
What matters is if ADS is a clear winner over hip fire at most ranges.
No, because you get descoped the second you are shot.

The reactions in here are ridiculous yet unsurprising. While they might need to look at automatic damage, nothing about ADS hurts the way the game plays IMO.
 

KNoon

Neo Member
What matters is if ADS is a clear winner over hip fire at most ranges.
If you scope in at close range, you will die. If you scope in during a gun fight medium range, you will be hit from ADS. If you use it at medium to long range effectively, you may get a kill. It's the best ranged combat I've experienced in a halo game thus far and is completely balanced.
 

SlyQuaker

Banned
If you scope in at close range, you will die. If you scope in during a gun fight medium range, you will be hit from ADS. If you use it at medium to long range effectively, you may get a kill. It's the best ranged combat I've experienced in a halo game thus far and is completely balanced.

You....I like you.
 

Head.spawn

Junior Member
If person A claimed: "2 is greater than 1",
and person B claimed "person A claimed that 1 is less than 2",
would you claim that person B was twisting person A's words to mean something different?

Because that's basically what you're doing here.

There's a little bit of a connotative difference, but 343i is trying to sell their product, so obviously they're going to try to state everything positively. It hardly makes the "twisted" version "wrong."

Have you tried the game?

Using your analogy, please note that in this ACTUAL circumstance, 2 isn't necessarily greater than 1 in every single circumstance. In fact, in most circumstances, 1 would be greater than 2. There are huge variables at play here, so I still think the title is intentionally painting the wrong picture.
 

Cru

Member
If you scope in at close range, you will die. If you scope in during a gun fight medium range, you will be hit from ADS. If you use it at medium to long range effectively, you may get a kill. It's the best ranged combat I've experienced in a halo game thus far and is completely balanced.

This is a good post.
 
If you scope in at close range, you will die. If you scope in during a gun fight medium range, you will be hit from ADS. If you use it at medium to long range effectively, you may get a kill. It's the best ranged combat I've experienced in a halo game thus far and is completely balanced.

This.
 

RoKKeR

Member
If you scope in at close range, you will die. If you scope in during a gun fight medium range, you will be hit from ADS. If you use it at medium to long range effectively, you may get a kill. It's the best ranged combat I've experienced in a halo game thus far and is completely balanced.
Yup. Works as intended.
 
If you scope in at close range, you will die. If you scope in during a gun fight medium range, you will be hit from ADS. If you use it at medium to long range effectively, you may get a kill. It's the best ranged combat I've experienced in a halo game thus far and is completely balanced.

Cool.
 
If you scope in at close range, you will die. If you scope in during a gun fight medium range, you will be hit from ADS. If you use it at medium to long range effectively, you may get a kill. It's the best ranged combat I've experienced in a halo game thus far and is completely balanced.

Thank you.
 
If you scope in at close range, you will die. If you scope in during a gun fight medium range, you will be hit from ADS. If you use it at medium to long range effectively, you may get a kill. It's the best ranged combat I've experienced in a halo game thus far and is completely balanced.

Yep!
 

HTupolev

Member
Have you tried the game?
No, but that's fairly irrelevant.

Using your analogy, please note that in this ACTUAL circumstance, 2 isn't necessarily greater than 1 in every single circumstance. In fact, in most circumstances, 1 would be greater than 2. There are huge variables at play here, so I still think the title is intentionally painting the wrong picture.
You completely failed to understand the analogy.

I'm not making any claims as to what works better than what else.

The only thing I'm claiming is that "ADS increases accuracy" and "non-ADS reduces accuracy" mean the same thing.
 
No, but that's fairly irrelevant.


You completely failed to understand the analogy.

I'm not making any claims as to what works better than what else.

The only thing I'm claiming is that "ADS increases accuracy" and "non-ADS reduces accuracy" mean the same thing.

Only if you ignore the greater context, though. If you take out the ADS effects on the automatics, they'd perform... still better than usual, but not substantially differently from old games in the series. The effect of the spread decrease is purely additive. Quantitatively, you can argue that it's the same, but qualitatively it's demonstrably different.
 
I'm ok with just boosting the range on autos too. But then again in real life if you want a more accurate shot you aim down the sights. Zoom out no zoom. I don't know, I'm mixed in this.
In real life, yes. But in Halo there is a canononical reason why Spartans don't ever aim down the sights. Its because every weapon has a camera feed which when a Spartan wants to scope, they just think and their Hud Changes the View from their Helmets Cameras to their Weapons Camera.
 
I'm ok with just boosting the range on autos too. But then again in real life if you want a more accurate shot you aim down the sights. Zoom out no zoom. I don't know, I'm mixed in this.

I hear you on that, but Halo's Spartans have traditionally been able to shoot accurately from either position. It's been part of the lore for a while now. They're super soldiers. The rules that apply to us normal folk aren't an issue for them lol.

Twisting what the guy said to mean something else doesn't make it any less full of crap.

Nothing's been twisted outside of your very own brain. If the post was made in order to mock the issue at hand, then it wasn't effective. It's a good argument.
 
In real life, yes. But in Halo there is a canononical reason why Spartans don't ever aim down the sights. Its because every weapon has a camera feed which when a Spartan wants to scope, they just think and their Hud Changes the View from their Helmets Cameras to their Weapons Camera.

I hear you on that, but Halo's Spartans have traditionally been able to shoot accurately from either position. It's been part of the lore for a while now. They're super soldiers. The rules that apply to us normal folk aren't an issue for them lol.

Ok, so the canonical argument is the best one I've heard against it yet. I can appreciate this. I'm a big fan of the games but I didn't read the books or anything. What about covenant & other alien weaponry? Does chief auto sinc with those too?
 
Ok, so the canonical argument is the best one I've heard against it yet. I can appreciate this. I'm a big fan of the games but I didn't read the books or anything. What about covenant & other alien weaponry? Does chief auto sinc with those too?

I guess so lol. I've wondered that ever since using the fuel rod cannon in HCE PC.
 

ShutterMunster

Junior Member
Narrative reasons against ADS are bullshit. Most people who play Halo don't even know books exist and they still wouldn't read them if they did, much similar to Star Wars.

Secondly the game feels super early and very janky, very unlike what we are used to from Bungie Halo betas. I haven't found ADS to be of any benefit, I've found that people destroy me with Assault Rifles and Pistols from borderline obscene distances. My biggest issues thus far are hit detection, lag, and weapon balance. ADS is a non issue.
 
Narrative reasons against ADS are bullshit. Most people who play Halo don't even know books exist and they still wouldn't read them if they did, much similar to Star Wars.

Secondly the game feels super early and very janky, very unlike what we are used to from Bungie Halo betas. I haven't found ADS to be of any benefit, I've found that people destroy me with Assault Rifles and Pistols from borderline obscene distances. My biggest issues thus far are hit detection, lag, and weapon balance. ADS is a non issue.

Master Chief's ability to sync up with his weapons is not just part of the lore, but it's part of the games. It has been since the beginning. So it's not bullshit. The ADS animation isn't an issue, though. The mechanic's current effect on gameplay is.
 
Ok, so the canonical argument is the best one I've heard against it yet. I can appreciate this. I'm a big fan of the games but I didn't read the books or anything. What about covenant & other alien weaponry? Does chief auto sinc with those too?
I believe the scopes of Covenant and other Alien Weaponry are all digitized and as such, he uses his armour to gain access to their optical feeds and just display what the weapons show by default on their feeds, which is Ammo/Energy, Heat, The Reticle and other designs. Text and whatnot is then translated through the Suits systems.

So yeah, his armour just auto syncs and streams the current weapons information once the data-transfer contacts in his gloves hold onto the data-transfer contacts in the weapons hilt/riffle holding point. The UNSC is just lucky that the Covenant use a similar system to feed information to Covenant Soldiers (Mostly, the Sangheili).

Another fun thing is that for weapons which don't have data-transfer contacts on them, The suits HUD essentially emulates and predicts where the gun should be pointing. For Regular Soldiers, those Eye Pieces they wear over one eye is where the weapons hud gets displayed. They could also theoretically use it to scope, but since its only one eye, they would have to close the other and/or have to use the scope anyways because they aren't capable of just absorbing the recoil like a Spartan can... Normal marines would mostly use Shooting Glasses for the task of weapon stuff though.

But yeah, the entire HUD and armour Systems in Halo can get pretty indeph, so changing stuff around and retconing for no reason does get annoying
 
Narrative reasons against ADS are bullshit. Most people who play Halo don't even know books exist and they still wouldn't read them if they did, much similar to Star Wars.

Secondly the game feels super early and very janky, very unlike what we are used to from Bungie Halo betas. I haven't found ADS to be of any benefit, I've found that people destroy me with Assault Rifles and Pistols from borderline obscene distances. My biggest issues thus far are hit detection, lag, and weapon balance. ADS is a non issue.

The well-entrenched basis rendering ADS obsolete is BS because it isn't smashed into your face?
I've played plenty of other games with ADS, I for one would rather not have lore staples retconned for the sake of fitting in with most shooters.
 

Duxxy3

Member
I'm fine with halo having the same gun play that Destiny has. It's the one part of Destiny that I think Bungie did perfectly. It's the complete lack of balance that disinterested me.
 

jetsetrez

Member
So uh.. is it still fun? Sure looks fun to me. Destiny was fun.

OH SORRY I MEAN I'M SCANDALIZED HOSH POSH HUFF PUFF MUSTASCHE TWIRL MONOCLE SPIN GRUMBLE GRUMBLE
 
No, but that's fairly irrelevant.


You completely failed to understand the analogy.

I'm not making any claims as to what works better than what else.

The only thing I'm claiming is that "ADS increases accuracy" and "non-ADS reduces accuracy" mean the same thing.
Irrelevant? Play the game it is so much fun. Stop reading about these changes and try it yourself. The multiplayer in H5 is really fantastic. The changes they have made are for the better.
 
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