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Hellblade (Ninja Theory, PS4/PC, UE4) - Gameplay Trailer

PaulloDEC

Member
Continues to look really cool to me, and the revelation that they'll be dealing with mental illness is an interesting twist. As usual, people are very quick to judge/criticise, but that's par for the course with Ninja Theory I suppose.

I hope to see the subject of mental illness touched upon with the same finesse that brought us sniper rifle abortion and 'the world is at last your bitch, as am I.'

Oh hey, remember when Naughty Dog made "The Last of Us" and it was a wacky Warner Bros style cartoon adventure full of robot animals and mad scientists?

No? Well golly, it's almost as if developers are able to tell different kinds of stories for different projects.

I think it looks meh. What's up with Ninja theorys art style variety? Is this game related in any form to Heavily sword? Same generic uninspired Indian looking girl mixed with unsaturated colors.

I guess you skipped Enslaved and DmC?
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Continues to look really cool to me, and the revelation that they'll be dealing with mental illness is an interesting twist. As usual, people are very quick to judge/criticise, but that's par for the course with Ninja Theory I suppose.



Oh hey, remember when Naughty Dog made "The Last of Us" and it was a wacky Warner Bros style cartoon adventure full of robot animals and mad scientists?

No? Well golly, it's almost as if developers are able to tell different kinds of stories for different projects.
Not to mention that ND is consistently praised for female characters. But let's not forget what female characters were featured in their previous games.
jakii_101003_1.jpg


Coincidentally this one shares the same name with one of their recent characters.
maxresdefault.jpg


So yea, the people bringing up DmC as the extent of NT's writing talent, (while simultaneously ignoring heavenly sword and enslaved odyssey to the west) really need to stop.
 

Hexa

Member
So yea, the people bringing up DmC as the extent of NT's writing talent, (while simultaneously ignoring heavenly sword and enslaved odyssey to the west) really need to stop.

NT didn't write either of those games. It was outsourced to Rhiana Pratchett and Alex Garland who wrote the stories for Heavenly Sword and Enslaved respectively. DmC is the only game written in house so far. This is the second.
 

Harlequin

Member
NT didn't write either of those games. It was outsourced to Rhiana Pratchett and Alex Garland who wrote the stories for Heavenly Sword and Enslaved respectively. DmC is the only game written in house so far. This is the second.

I'm pretty sure that NT at least came up with the basic plot outlines for both games, though. That sort of stuff is usually done long before professional writers get onboard (unfortunately when it comes to projects whose creative leads aren't proficient storytellers - based on their past work I'd think NT are probably at least decent ones, though).
 

Gbraga

Member
Oh hey, remember when Naughty Dog made "The Last of Us" and it was a wacky Warner Bros style cartoon adventure full of robot animals and mad scientists?

No? Well golly, it's almost as if developers are able to tell different kinds of stories for different projects.

But isn't that precisely the point he's making? DmC isn't supposed to be goofy and stupid, it's supposed to be their social commentary on our society, especially the media. It's supposed to be deep, but it was so poorly done that DMC3 still has the vastly superior story in the entire series.

And I was excited for DmC's story, because I already liked Ninja Theory before!

I can't agree with art being "samey" though, I see absolutely no trace of DmC in this video when it comes to the art direction. Of course, both use "reality bending" as a thing in the game, but they look completely different.

NT didn't write either of those games. It was outsourced to Rhiana Pratchett and Alex Garland who wrote the stories for Heavenly Sword and Enslaved respectively. DmC is the only game written in house so far. This is the second.

Yep, also this.

As I said, I was excited about DmC's story, I thought Garland supervising Tameem's writing should probably be more than enough. Clearly it wasn't. They already got the benefit of the doubt. At least from me (I'm sure many people never gave DmC a chance at all).

I wish they would keep it simple and just make a typical action game story, after their social commentary in DmC, I'm really not looking forward to them approaching more serious subjects, just make it fun.

But who knows, maybe Tameem will surprise me this time. I'm no hater, on the contrary, and I was quite sad when he deleted his twitter account (hopefully he'll come back when the time to market this game is approaching), but I'm not a fan of the way he makes his social commentary, it's quite juvenile.

I did like his Dante a lot, though. And I really really really REEEAAALLY wish we could get from him the original story. The concept arts you unlock make it very obvious that many things changed (as well as the first trailer, where his growing up seemed to be a lot more important than just "I went from one demon orphanage to another" being mentioned once or twice), and it would be amazing to just listen to him talk about the original version of the story that he had to compromise to benefit the game as a whole.

I'm pretty sure that NT at least came up with the basic plot outlines for both games, though. That sort of stuff is usually done long before professional writers get onboard (unfortunately when it comes to projects whose creative leads aren't proficient storytellers - based on their past work I'd think NT are probably at least decent ones, though).

What would the basic plot outlines be, though? Is it as simple as "the demons and limbo are metaphors for the forces that rule our society, such as corporations, governments and the media", "Dante was tortured by demons when growing up, and that shaped his personality"? Because that sounded cool as hell to me and got me very excited. The actual execution though, that was awful.

Shitty design aside, the reveal trailer was really interesting to me, when it comes to the story potential.

Just as the whole mental illness thing would make me VERY excited if I didn't play DmC. I know better than to let myself get excited by a potentially interesting subject if it's coming from them. It's not the concept itself that bothers me, I love Silent Hill, for example, it's the most likely execution that does.
 

border

Member
In the dev diary the following is stated:


Right now it seems to be the most basic form of what they're planning to do with her perception when it comes to combat.
Okay then, which specific mental illness causes you to view ordinary people as monstrous hell beings? How is this more authentic than Alan Wake, Alice, Eternal Darkness, etc?

It's clear they are taking a lot of artistic license with what mental illness is, so they probably shouldn't be selling it as an authentic interpretation of people with mental issues.
 

tuxfool

Banned
Okay then, which specific mental illness causes you to view ordinary people as monstrous hell beings? How is this more authentic than Alan Wake, Alice, Eternal Darkness, etc?

It's clear they are taking a lot of artistic license with what mental illness is, so they probably shouldn't be selling it as an authentic interpretation of people with mental issues.

You didn't watch the video. Did you?
 

Gbraga

Member
Okay then, which specific mental illness causes you to view ordinary people as monstrous hell beings? How is this more authentic than Alan Wake, Alice, Eternal Darkness, etc?

It's clear they are taking a lot of artistic license with what mental illness is, so they probably shouldn't be selling it as an authentic interpretation of people with mental issues.

To be fair to the game, they aren't just "ordinary people", they're vikings that traumatized her and are trying to kill her. The way she sees them is as monstrous hell beings, but the way they act is just the way they act.

Do you watch/read Game of Thrones? If so,
I'd say it's kinda similar to the way The Hound reacts to fire, but showed to us in first person.
(I'm still in the middle of Season 3, please don't spoil me >_<)
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
NT didn't write either of those games. It was outsourced to Rhiana Pratchett and Alex Garland who wrote the stories for Heavenly Sword and Enslaved respectively. DmC is the only game written in house so far. This is the second.
Rhianna Pratchett and Alex Garland are not solely responsible for those stories being good. Although they did have a large hand in it since they were the writers. Always remember that it's a collaborative effort.

But isn't that precisely the point he's making? DmC isn't supposed to be goofy and stupid, it's supposed to be their social commentary on our society, especially the media. It's supposed to be deep, but it was so poorly done that DMC3 still has the vastly superior story in the entire series.
I think you completely misunderstood their intentions if you think that the story wasn't supposed to be goofy in anyway, shape or form. In fact they were pretty straight faced about it. They even made it more obvious by slightly extending the ending, while it is in some ways a critique of modern day society, it's not super serious. I think that aspect went over a lot of people's heads despite the giant parody known as Bob Barbas being front and center for the first half of the game.
Inb4 someone says quotes the voice actress from the dev diary who stated that the themes were shakespearean.
But this isn't about DmC. It's about Hellblade. If the story doesn't pan out, i'll eat my words. But until then and based on what i've seen so far, I have faith in the team to deliver an interesting interpretation of mental illness.

Okay then, which specific mental illness causes you to view ordinary people as monstrous hell beings? How is this more authentic than Alan Wake, Alice, Eternal Darkness, etc?

It's clear they are taking a lot of artistic license with what mental illness is, so they probably shouldn't be selling it as an authentic interpretation of people with mental issues.
First of all, watch the dev diary video, it's on the OP, they explain the idea behind it. Second of all if I were to guess, since she perceives the vikings who invaded as hulking men drenched with fire and darkness, i'd imagine that it's some form of PTSD. They imply that she's the way she is because of what happened in her past, I'd imagine that viking invasions would include a lot of fire, maybe that includes her parents and village and she's the last of her group, (she's seen talking to someone in WIP footage, maybe even herself since she's seemingly all alone in that scene). That's just an assumption but you see where i'm going with this.
 

brennok

Neo Member
I thought it was Hellblade that they decided to go back to the drawing board on, but apparently not. What game am I confusing it with? They only mentioned it in the last couple months too.

Edit: looks like I was thinking of Hellraid.
 

Skux

Member
But isn't that precisely the point he's making? DmC isn't supposed to be goofy and stupid, it's supposed to be their social commentary on our society, especially the media. It's supposed to be deep, but it was so poorly done that DMC3 still has the vastly superior story in the entire series.

Oh dear. If DmC was supposed to be a commentary on society then you can see why I'm skeptical about this having some kind of insight into mental illness.

I really liked DmC for its style and even its combat. But its themes around the media and the Bob Barbas character came off as nothing more than a parody.
 

Gbraga

Member
I think you completely misunderstood their intentions if you think that the story wasn't supposed to be goofy in anyway, shape or form. In fact they were pretty straight faced about it. They even made it more obvious by slightly extending the ending, while it is in some ways a critique of modern day society, it's not super serious.
Inb4 someone says quotes the voice actress from the dev diary who stated that the themes were shakespearean.

Maybe I just followed this game's development too closely. I vividly remember (though I can't quite find the source now) shit like them saying DmC would be "a game to further blur the line between games and films when it comes to quality storytelling" and other shit like that. They were most definitely taking it seriously, and thought it was great.

Sure, there are some goofy moments, I personally love the "I like it rough" line from Dante, and Kat's reaction to it, the whole semen thing as part of the ingredients is just a stupid moment made on purpose, and I also dislike idiotic nitpick such as the one you mentioned and the dissecated squirrel semen thing, as if that has any importance to the actual story. I mean the actual actual story, the actual social commentary being made, it was poorly executed, in my opinion.

It basically comes down to "THE MEDIA IS EVIL. ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO STOP THEM?"

I mean, fuck, the #DEMONS, we have awoken is a serious candidate for the worst cutscene I've ever seen.

I'll give them props where they deserve too, though, the way they implemented Kat's plan in the level was fucking brilliant, I had a huge smile on my face throughout the level.

They have the best aciton game combat design in the west as well with DmC, in my opinion. Rahni Tucker and tragic are on a level above everyone else in the west.

And I don't mean that as a backhand compliment either, it's just that the best overall are still from Japan, imo.

Oh dear. If DmC was supposed to be a commentary on society then you can see why I'm skeptical about this having some kind of insight into mental illness.

I really liked DmC for its style and even its combat. But its themes around the media and the Bob Barbas character came off as nothing more than a parody.

Yes, exactly. NT just gets a lot of undeserved hate, so I can see why some people would be defensive torwards criticisim, but I urge people not to put me on the same boat, I love Heavenly Sword, I love Enslaved, I love DmC, I'm a big fan of Ninja Theory.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Maybe I just followed this game's development too closely. I vividly remember (though I can't quite find the source now) shit like them saying DmC would be "a game to further blur the line between games and films when it comes to quality storytelling" and other shit like that. They were most definitely taking it seriously, and thought it was great.

Sure, there are some goofy moments, I personally love the "I like it rough" line from Dante, and Kat's reaction to it, the whole semen thing as part of the ingredients is just a stupid moment made on purpose, and I also dislike idiotic nitpick such as the one you mentioned and the dissecated squirrel semen thing, as if that has any importance to the actual story. I mean the actual actual story, the actual social commentary being made, it was poorly executed, in my opinion.

It basically comes down to "THE MEDIA IS EVIL. ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO STOP THEM?"

I mean, fuck, the #DEMONS, we have awoken is a serious candidate for the worst cutscene I've ever seen.
Oh well on the subject of the social commentary I liked the way they integrated it into the level design itself. Things like advertisements changing as you get closer to them, all of that is part of the commentary. And with the blur the line between film and games thing I consider that to be part of the way they framed cutscenes and such, I mean even going to the point of emphasizing "hey we're using the same mocap studio as avatar" and casting tv actors. The cinematography is very similar to film as well compared to previous games which were quite similar to anime.
Example being the whole exposition scene that is one long tracking shot with the graffiti. If there was an actual film based on the series made by people from the west I can't imagine it being very different from the way DmC presents it's narrative.

Oh dear. If DmC was supposed to be a commentary on society then you can see why I'm skeptical about this having some kind of insight into mental illness.

I really liked DmC for its style and even its combat. But its themes around the media and the Bob Barbas character came off as nothing more than a parody.
It's more of a satire that contains critiques of modern society than a straight serious social commentary. Concerning the bolded, that's exactly what they were going for.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/30/reimagining-evil-ninja-theory-on-dmcs-cultural-satire/

Specifically
What you get from DmC then is not a narrative about demons tempting the innocent, torturing and tormenting souls, or using automated phone services to constantly bother you about Payment Protection Insurance. You get a story about a population controlled by powerful and corrupt financial institutions which hold sway over government. A story about a population with its senses dulled by an obsession with consumer culture and celebrity. About a population fed lies through a reactionary corporate media network which seeks to police the truth rather than reveal it. So, outlandish as it is, DmC&#8217;s world is a satirical interpretation of our own.
Ninja Theory have simply held it to a fun-house mirror, warping and accentuating its most disturbing features.

It&#8217;s also anything but a po-faced critique of contemporary political and social institutions. The outrageously grotesque figures which Ninja Theory use to represent their chosen targets with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer make that perfectly clear. And that&#8217;s not a criticism. Sure, DmC&#8217;s brand of Hollywood Marxism isn&#8217;t what one might call sophisticated, but it&#8217;s not meant to be. Ninja Theory are being deliberately ostentatious, taking a pop at their targets in a playful way and maintaining a sense of awareness about the ridiculousness of their approach.

&#8220;Satire is a peculiarly British focus,&#8221; Matthews says. &#8220;From Spitting Image to Have I Got News for You, we don&#8217;t hold back in ridiculing the establishment and getting to the truth through humour. DmC is no different in that regard. It&#8217;s a comical satire on the world we live in. It shouldn&#8217;t be taken too seriously but it is a reflection of our times&#8221;
Again, some people may not enjoy this brand of commentary. But to say that it took itself super seriously and that they were straight faced in their attempt and that therefore we shouldn't have faith in them to take on a serious subject such as mental illness is disingenuous at best. I'm also quite curious to see how they're gonna implement their concepts with skewed perspective and expanding the moveset.
mrUELCK.gif
 

Hexa

Member
I really want to like this game. When it was revealed it looked great. But after watching the dev diary and the trailer a couple times, it just isn't resonating with me.
I was hoping for something more like Heavenly Sword, though they did say it wouldn't be like that so I guess that's my fault, but I thought the action would still be the focus, which based on this trailer doesn't quite seem to be the case.
I guess this is where I get off the hype train for this one.
 

Gbraga

Member
Oh, another purposely goofy thing that I loved was the whole FUCK YOU exchange. People also nitpick that as an example of the bad writing, but I actually thought it was pretty clever, one of the better moments of the game's narrative, actually.

If you understand the context, the silliness of it is great.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/30/reimagining-evil-ninja-theory-on-dmcs-cultural-satire/

This dude in the commentaries section sums it up pretty well imo:

YEAH FUCK EVIL CONSUMERISM

On a serious note: How is comparing consumerism as slavery an adult theme? This is the sort of topic 14 year old kids latch on to. Do they provide a better alternative? Nope. Do they attempt to explain why current consumerism is an issue? Nope. Ok then, sure buddy, let&#8217;s fuck the neo-fudalist system and let anarchy rain down upon us! WOOO.

&#8220;Hey man, you drinking pepsi? Yeah, you are? Well man that shit&#8217;s poison man! Is that a sandwhich, why are you excersizing consumerist choice? fuck consumerism man, also buy my game DmC : Devil May Cry now for 39.99&#8243;.

also; FUCK YOUUUUUU.

It's pretty much the edgy teenager's version of social commentary.
 
Am I the only one here thinking that looks a bit like an older Kai, has a name that's almost intentionally the opposite of Heavenly Sword, and even mentions through lens of mental illness, something Kai most definitely had some form of?

Maybe I just want this to be related to HS too much, but I can't help but see some possible tie-overs appearing.
 

sleepykyo

Member
In game and real time disclaimer for gameplay trailer. Time to get hyp~ 3 swings spliced between cutscenes and dull traversal. Pretty underwhelming.
 

Gbraga

Member
I'm also quite curious to see how they're gonna implement their concepts with skewed perspective and expanding the moveset.
mrUELCK.gif

This part was siiiiiiiiiiiiick. They've been showing bits and pieces of this stuff, but only now it actually makes sense as a mechanic. Very excited to see how that plays out.

I wonder if DmC's combat designer will also consult on this game now that the DE is out of the way, I'd very much like that.
 

PaulloDEC

Member
But isn't that precisely the point he's making? DmC isn't supposed to be goofy and stupid, it's supposed to be their social commentary on our society, especially the media. It's supposed to be deep, but it was so poorly done that DMC3 still has the vastly superior story in the entire series.

I've only played through DmC once, so admittedly my memory might be a little hazy, but I don't believe for a second that it was supposed to be "deep". The stuff with the media is played as broadly as it could possibly played, and the whole thing has a very obvious streak of goofy comedy running through it (from the opening scene where Dante gets dressed mid-air, to the "Fuck you!" sequence that people regularly seem to mistake for an unintentionally stupid exchange, rather than a purposefully stupid exchange).

It's weird to me that gamers immediately dump games in the "pretentious" bin the moment they detect a hint of social commentary. I feel like you should be able to do some cheerful pop-punk satire without immediately being compared with House of Cards.

EDIT: It took me so long to write my response that you've already posted a few times. Glad we're on the same page re: "Fuck you!"
 

Harlequin

Member
Yeah, I didn't mind the faux-edginess in DmC at all. I can't comment on the story and pacing as I still haven't finished it (not because I didn't like it but because I'm pretty busy and I started playing DmC around the time I started building a backlog :p) but at least the constant criticism of the dialogue and writing is something I don't quite understand. It's not meant to be taken seriously. It's supposed to be silly and tacky and in-your-face. Maybe it's one of those cultural difference things? I've read before that US-Americans tend to not get this sort of mix of humour and serious topics as well as Europeans do (no idea if it's actually true, though).
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
This dude in the commentaries section sums it up pretty well imo:



It's pretty much the edgy teenager's version of social commentary.
Again, they say they're not necessarily taking a stance or trying to be serious about it. It's all deliberate. The distinct message isn't "corporations are bad, rebellion is good." Or that video games are too violent and lead to obesity. It's holding up a mirror and taking it to the extreme and having fun with it. A similar game which does the same thing is GTAV. Now whether or not they should've toned it down or taken it further, (actually they did, the hero saves the day and now is supposed to get the girl like in every other game right?) or if it's edgy is pretty subjective.
 

Harlequin

Member
Am I the only one here thinking that looks a bit like an older Kai, has a name that's almost intentionally the opposite of Heavenly Sword, and even mentions through lens of mental illness, something Kai most definitely had some form of?

Maybe I just want this to be related to HS too much, but I can't help but see some possible tie-overs appearing.

Heavenly Sword was a) a fantasy game and b) set in an Asian-inspired setting. This is (from what they've said so far) not a fantasy game but rather a game set in a real historical setting seen through the eyes of someone who perceives the world vastly differently to most others and it's set in Celtic Britain. Senua herself is actually based on an old Celtic goddess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senuna

So I think it's rather unlikely that this is actually narratively linked to Heavenly Sword.
 
Heavenly Sword was a) a fantasy game and b) set in an Asian-inspired setting. This is (from what they've said so far) not a fantasy game but rather a game set in a real historical setting seen through the eyes of someone who perceives the world vastly differently to most others and it's set in Celtic Britain. Senua herself is actually based on an old Celtic goddess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senuna

So I think it's rather unlikely that this is actually narratively linked to Heavenly Sword.

Ah fair enough, I've not seen much info drop from this other than the announcement trailer and the gameplay trailer. Oh well I'll have to keep wishing lol. I know HS had it's flaws but I really liked Kai and Nariko, not to mention even the bosses had interesting stories for the msot part.

This looks pretty interesting on its own merits anyway too.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Am I the only one here thinking that looks a bit like an older Kai, has a name that's almost intentionally the opposite of Heavenly Sword, and even mentions through lens of mental illness, something Kai most definitely had some form of?

Maybe I just want this to be related to HS too much, but I can't help but see some possible tie-overs appearing.
KaiHellblade_zps1ba6c283.jpg


It's pretty much what Mighty No. 9 is to Megaman. The publishers are just letting it happen instead of saying "Hey, we own the rights to something very similar to that, that you made by the way, stop it." They hired Kai's VA to record some lines. You can hear it in the new dev diary actually. Think she's the female voice who seemingly encourages Senua.
 

Gbraga

Member
I've only played through DmC once, so admittedly my memory might be a little hazy, but I don't believe for a second that it was supposed to be "deep". The stuff with the media is played as broadly as it could possibly played, and the whole thing has a very obvious streak of goofy comedy running through it (from the opening scene where Dante gets dressed mid-air, to the "Fuck you!" sequence that people regularly seem to mistake for an unintentionally stupid exchange, rather than a purposefully stupid exchange).

It's weird to me that gamers immediately dump games in the "pretentious" bin the moment they detect a hint of social commentary. I feel like you should be able to do some cheerful pop-punk satire without immediately being compared with House of Cards.

EDIT: It took me so long to write my response that you've already posted a few times. Glad we're on the same page re: "Fuck you!"

Yeah, I definitely see why people are understanding me wrong (I'm also not doing a very good job explaining myself), my problem isn't with the surface level stuff, on the contrary, most of the goofy shit was great, but their actual message was quite shallow to me. When I say it was supposed to be serious, I don't mean that "FUCK YOU" was supposed to be a serious discussion, I just mean that the goofy parts are not the actual point, it's not just a stupid story making fun of everything because it's funny, there's a message, the social commentary they're trying to make. That's what I continue thinking was absolutely taken seriously, and I hated it.

Just like I have no doubts the actual game implementations of the whole "you can't trust what you see to be real" thing will be great, but I'm not sure they'll have something very meaningful to say about her actual condition, you know?
 

Harlequin

Member
Ah fair enough, I've not seen much info drop from this other than the announcement trailer and the gameplay trailer. Oh well I'll have to keep wishing lol. I know HS had it's flaws but I really liked Kai and Nariko, not to mention even the bosses had interesting stories for the msot part.

This looks pretty interesting on its own merits anyway too.

If you are interested in finding out more about it, alll the dev diaries they've released have been extremely interesting and insightful IMO.

This is the first one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42wG9WEl_9o

And you can find the others on their YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialNinjaTheory/videos
 

DanceLeaf

Neo Member
This game is going to be really special, in terms of its subject matter I hope it really hits home and acvomplishes what it's set to do. It really progresses the games industry foward. Well done Ninja Theory.
 

Harlequin

Member
Just like I have no doubts the actual game implementations of the whole "you can't trust what you see to be real" thing will be great, but I'm not sure they'll have something very meaningful to say about her actual condition, you know?

I don't think they need to, though. Just putting players into the shoes of a person who has such a condition should already be enough to change people's perspectives and opinions on the matter. That's something I think games have a huge potential for in general which still largely goes unused. Gamers tend to identify with their playable characters much more strongly than readers of books or viewers of movies or TV shows do with the protagonists in those forms of media and that makes games a unique way of opening up people's perspectives and letting them see the world from a different point of view. The question is whether the historical setting is not too far removed from our own everyday lives for people to actually make the connection. But still, I don't think the game actually needs to say anything meaningful about mental illness. It merely needs to portray it in an accurate and respectful way.
 

border

Member
You didn't watch the video. Did you?
I am currently behind a firewall that blocks access to streaming video sites. What is the pertinent information in the developer diary? Is a specific mental illness actually being depicted?

To be fair to the game, they aren't just "ordinary people", they're vikings that traumatized her and are trying to kill her. The way she sees them is as monstrous hell beings, but the way they act is just the way they act.

But what mental illness causes frequent, persistent visual hallucinations in this fashion? They are trying to play it up like she has PTSD, but I'm not sure if actual PTSD sufferers want to be depicted as hallucinatory nutjobs.
 

injurai

Banned
I'm really looking forward to seeing more. I love the ideas they are working with. The art direction is pretty stunning and refreshing to see as well.
 

Gbraga

Member
Again, they say they're not necessarily taking a stance or trying to be serious about it. It's all deliberate. The distinct message isn't "corporations are bad, rebellion is good." Or that video games are too violent and lead to obesity. It's holding up a mirror and taking it to the extreme and having fun with it. A similar game which does the same thing is GTAV. Now whether or not they should've toned it down or taken it further, (actually they did, the hero saves the day and now is supposed to get the girl like in every other game right?) or if it's edgy is pretty subjective.

I actually think you bringing up GTA V helps my point (btw, I think GTA V's story is rubbish, the game goes to shit the moment Trevor is introduced, so this is by no means just me trying to say "no it's totally different, GTA V is actually good!"), the population doesn't come to an epiphany when they find out about the hidden evils of our society in GTA V, you don't save the world from the evil Monster Energy Drink and free humanity of the behind the scenes "slavery" they've been subject to through corporations and the media manipulating them to follow consumerist patterns that benefit them, dictating what they should like, and who they should be.

When you transform those aspects in the villains and you defeat them, you save the world from them, and open everyone's eyes to it, it's very clear what the message is. In GTA V, nothing changes, nothing is supposed to change, the world's fucked up, always was, always will be, this is just those three dudes' story in this fucked up world that doesn't give a crap about them.

GTA V just uses this mirror you referred to in order to amplify our society's flaws (or at least what the writers perceive as such) and create this overblown parody of our world, and then the game takes place there, DmC uses this mirror in creating the world, but it's very clear who the villain and the good guy are. They even get into the necessity of the Leviathan to "save us from ourselves", ffs, and freedom wins, of course. Removing our freedom is bad, even if it's arguably for our safety.

Wow, what a deep social commentary.

Not saying GTA V never does stuff like that either, btw, of course it does, and I also find it quite stupid most of the times. YEAH LIKE, PEOPLE DO ANYTHING FOR FAME AND GLORY, MAN, WE LIVE IN THE AGE OF SOCIAL MEDIA, AND LIKES AND FOLLOWS AND SHIT.

Ah, come on, shut the fuck up. I wish we could get social commentary on how open world game design is homogenized garbage these days. Everything is Ubisoft open world with Batman like combat. 60 bucks 10/10 best game ever IGN.com, pls pre-order.

Shit, I should do social commentary myself. I'd be a great writer.

EDIT: You know a game that does the whole human nature and society's weight on our behavior discussion amazingly well? The Last of Us.

I don't think they need to, though. Just putting players into the shoes of a person who has such a condition should already be enough to change people's perspectives and opinions on the matter. That's something I think games have a huge potential for in general which still largely goes unused. Gamers tend to identify with their playable characters much more strongly than readers of books or viewers of movies or TV shows do with the protagonists in those forms of media and that makes games a unique way of opening up people's perspectives and letting them see the world from a different point of view. The question is whether the historical setting is not too far removed from our own everyday lives for people to actually make the connection. But still, I don't think the game actually needs to say anything meaningful about mental illness. It merely needs to portray it in an accurate and respectful way.

You know what? I'll give you that, you're 100% right. If they don't even try to, that could work perfectly.

But what mental illness causes frequent, persistent visual hallucinations in this fashion? They are trying to play it up like she has PTSD, but I'm not sure if actual PTSD sufferers want to be depicted as hallucinatory nutjobs.

Eh, I see your point, but I wouldn't consider that such a big issue.

DmC depicts fat people as brainwashed corporate slave-morons who will almost literally drink shit because the media told them it makes you a cool person.

I can agree with the whole "mentally ill as villains" complain, but just being depicted as the way Senua is, even though she's the hero you're supposed to like and identify with? Eh, not an issue.

That said, I didn't suffer from PTSD myself, so my opinion on this doesn't mean much, of course.
 

Harlequin

Member
I am currently behind a firewall that blocks access to streaming video sites. What is the pertinent information in the developer diary? Is a specific mental illness actually being depicted?

"Senua suffers from anxiety, depression, delusions and hallucinations. She has a condition that's been called a cancer of the mind, a living hell, and we're going to witness her journey through her mind's eye."

And they're working with a professor on health neuroscience (who is also interviewed in teh dev diary). I'm sure if what Senua has wasn't an actual condition, he would've told them.
 

PaulloDEC

Member
Yeah, I definitely see why people are understanding me wrong (I'm also not doing a very good job explaining myself), my problem isn't with the surface level stuff, on the contrary, most of the goofy shit was great, but their actual message was quite shallow to me. When I say it was supposed to be serious, I don't mean that "FUCK YOU" was supposed to be a serious discussion, I just mean that the goofy parts are not the actual point, it's not just a stupid story making fun of everything because it's funny, there's a message, the social commentary they're trying to make. That's what I continue thinking was absolutely taken seriously, and I hated it.

Just like I have no doubts the actual game implementations of the whole "you can't trust what you see to be real" thing will be great, but I'm not sure they'll have something very meaningful to say about her actual condition, you know?

While I don't entirely agree about the seriousness of the themes in DmC (I mean, obviously in-world that stuff is serious, but I'm not convinced we as players are meant to be thinking seriously about the role of the media in society as a result of a cartoonish Fox news parody and the notion of brainwashing softdrinks) I can understand the concern. I enjoyed the storytelling in DmC for what it was, but mental illness is a very serious subject for a lot of people, and to go from the faux-punk melodrama of DmC to the world of Hellblade is a big tonal shift.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It's encouraging at least to see that the producers accepted their lack of knowledge on a sensitive subject and brought in a consultant to help out.
 

Gbraga

Member
While I don't entirely agree about the seriousness of the themes in DmC (I mean, obviously in-world that stuff is serious, but I'm not convinced we as players are meant to be thinking seriously about the role of the media in society as a result of a cartoonish Fox news parody and the notion of brainwashing softdrinks) I can understand the concern. I enjoyed the storytelling in DmC for what it was, but mental illness is a very serious subject for a lot of people, and to go from the faux-punk melodrama of DmC to the world of Hellblade is a big tonal shift.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It's encouraging at least to see that the producers accepted their lack of knowledge on a sensitive subject and brought in a consultant to help out.

You're definitely right about that last part, and you guys are convincing me to be more open minded torwards Hellblade's story.
 
From a combat perspective it'd be wise on their part if they used God Hand as a big inspiration. Or even PN03 if they are giving the character some ranged attacks.
 

Gbraga

Member
From a combat perspective it'd be wise on their part if they used God Hand as a big inspiration. Or even PN03 if they are giving the character some ranged attacks.

Yeah, God Hand just being mentioned is so good, I'm glad someone is keeping that style alive, even though it does seem quite a bit different from the little footage we have (personally, I'd say it's better-different, not worse-different).

That RE4~5 camera also brings me all the feels in the world. I was about to comment on how weird it was that the RE4 style of camera made me feel nostalgic, since it's such a recent game, then I checked the release date on wikipedia.

Maaaan, it's been a while.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I actually think you bringing up GTA V helps my point (btw, I think GTA V's story is rubbish, the game goes to shit the moment Trevor is introduced, so this is by no means just me trying to say "no it's totally different, GTA V is actually good!"), the population doesn't come to an epiphany when they find out about the hidden evils of our society in GTA V, you don't save the world from the evil Monster Energy Drink and free humanity of the behind the scenes "slavery" they've been subject to through corporations and the media manipulating them to follow consumerist patterns that benefit them, dictating what they should like, and who they should be.

When you transform those aspects in the villains and you defeat them, you save the world from them, and open everyone's eyes to it, it's very clear what the message is. In GTA V, nothing changes, nothing is supposed to change, the world's fucked up, always was, always will be, this is just those three dudes' story in this fucked up world that doesn't give a crap about them.

GTA V just uses this mirror you referred to in order to amplify our society's flaws (or at least what the writers perceive as such) and create this overblown parody of our world, and then the game takes place there, DmC uses this mirror in creating the world, but it's very clear who the villain and the good guy are. They even get into the necessity of the Leviathan to "save us from ourselves", ffs, and freedom wins, of course. Removing our freedom is bad, even if it's arguably for our safety.

Wow, what a deep social commentary.

Not saying GTA V never does stuff like that either, btw, of course it does, and I also find it quite stupid most of the times. YEAH LIKE, PEOPLE DO ANYTHING FOR FAME AND GLORY, MAN, WE LIVE IN THE AGE OF SOCIAL MEDIA, AND LIKES AND FOLLOWS AND SHIT.

Ah, come on, shut the fuck up. I wish we could get social commentary on how open world game design is homogenized garbage these days. Everything is Ubisoft open world with Batman like combat. 60 bucks 10/10 best game ever IGN.com, pls pre-order.

Shit, I should do social commentary myself. I'd be a great writer.

EDIT: You know a game that does the whole human nature and society's weight on our behavior discussion amazingly well? The Last of Us.
DmC says the same really, it shows the opposite extreme from "corporations control everything." As soon as the corporations are exposed everything goes to hell and anarchy. They even have a scene of the characters saying we did it, and then showing this both characters hugging it out. In GTAV, which is a critique on strictly american culture, you beat the villains, and you're playing as villains, but you make the others seem like the lesser evil. Things stay the same because there will always be drug lords, idiot police etc. Then again it's a video game, and not a new IP, it's devil may cry so there has to be a big bad at the end for players to defeat because it's a hack and slash video game. :|
 

border

Member
Eh, I see your point, but I wouldn't consider that such a big issue.

DmC depicts fat people as brainwashed corporate slave-morons who will almost literally drink shit because the media told them it makes you a cool person.
The difference is that DmC wasn't sold as an authentic, true to life depiction of what it means to be obese. This game is ostensibly supposed to be treating its topic seriously.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Man......... people saying the FUCK YOU FUCK YOUUU FUCK YOUUUUUUUU scene in DmC as something meant to be deathly serious, seriously baffled me.

But then again, many were enraged because of that early "not in a million years" scene in DmC, when it's clear than the developer was just having some fun/joke.

This looks good. I always like their effort, despite some problems typically permeating their titles.
 

Amir0x

Banned
So yea, the people bringing up DmC as the extent of NT's writing talent, (while simultaneously ignoring heavenly sword and enslaved odyssey to the west) really need to stop.

Why ignore them? They are happily atrocious as well, featuring miserable writing, comically awful character archetypes (Enslaved's WOMAN SMART AND AGILE, MAN STRONG BUT DUMB) and all the plot nuance of a shotgun blast to the face.

I know, I know. The altar is getting a little dusty, let me not disturb it.
 
I'll give Ninja Theory props for being aggressive about creating new IPs but a lot of their games are too same-y looking. I'll keep my eye on this game though. PS4 exclusive means they will be able to do more in terms of graphics and features which will be interesting to see.
 
The concept is very interesting and it looks awesome. The combat looked a bit wonky, at least to me it did. Will keep an eye on this, I tend to like NT games.
 
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