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[oni-link]

A lot of the time when it's revealed a game is doing something anti consumer or adopting an unpopular financial model, a lot of the time there are people who make the "vote with your wallet" argument

Is there any proof that this has ever worked? Even the infamous Xbone reversal was something that happened before the console came out, so it wasn't something they reacted to because of poor sales, that was entirely down to them realising what it was offering wasn't something consumers wanted

With games in particular, a lot of the stuff they are implementing doesn't cost much to add into the game, and even if most players ignore it, the few that don't will make it worthwhile, and keeping this kind of thing in games will cause the majority to get used to them being there anyway

If anything, microtransactions making a publisher less than expected will probably cause them to push for the design of the game to change in order to recoup more from them in future games

If you outright don't buy the game at all, that doesn't send a message either, if a game sells 4.5m and not 5m, and they lose 500k in sales from people "voting with their wallet" they have no idea that was the case, there is no way they will analyse that data and think "shit, we lost 500k in sales because we included a pay to win mechanic"

What do you think, GAF, does voting with your wallet work? Why do people think it does?

Edit for clarity:

Maybe I wasn't clear in the OP, I'm not saying democracy doesn't work, I mean the "vote with your wallet" argument that is made on GAF when someone posts complaining about something anti consumer in a game, isn't a productive argument, because the majority don't care, and it won't change anything

We could all complain about microtransactions in paid games for the next decade, voting with our wallets and all, but every big holiday game for 2025 is going to contain microtransactions, that is the way the industry is going

 

[Eighty Deuce]

I didn't buy evolve and that seems to be working

 

[Chris1]

Batman Arkham knight for PC?

Voting with your wallet works, it just doesn't work when 99% of people buy it anyways.

 

[MMaRsu]

Ofcourse it works. And letting your wishes and complaints known. Remember #Nodrm?

 

[toddhunter]

What do you think, GAF, does voting with your wallet work? Why do people think it does?

Voting with your wallet is extremely effective. The problem is not with the technique.

The problem is the people who also vote with their wallet in the opposite direction and the fact that there are a lot more of those people, they probably have more money and they are idiots.

 

[glaurung]

Voting with your wallet does work.

Recent example: people dismissed Square's silly Deus Ex augmented pre-order system. Publisher decided to pull it.

 

[MayMay]

Voting with your wallet only works if alot of people do it, otherwise it's inconsequential.

But yea, generally it does work.

 

[Forkball]

I wanted amiibos.

So I bought amiibos.

Then they made more amiibos because I bought so many.

Mission accomplished.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

The future is buying something and refunding it.

 

[GuardianE]

It does. Just in a lot of cases, people don't have the will to follow through with their commitment. And in your example above, 500000 people voted against said game, but 4.5 million voted for said game... so the vote worked. It's just that everyone else's vote is as important as yours.

And generally, a big decrease in sales is accompanied by some public outcry, whether due to some business practice or overall quality of the game.

 

[Deft Beck]

From a consumer perspective, it might not seem to have an effect, but that perspective has access to much less data.

Developers and publishers take many different metrics into consideration while maintaining current games and developing new games. It might not work right away, but feedback in the long term will affect how they create new content and position it in the gaming marketplace.

 

[RMI]

What do you think, GAF, does voting with your wallet work? Why do people think it does?

not for the big games, because there is enough of an audience that doesn't follow the news as closely as your average gaffer does. For niche titles a motivated fan base can probably make a dent in sales.

 

[Leon Belmont]

If more people votes with their wallet of course it will work...

 

[Z3M0G]

Pre-order numbers are a big part of the problem. Publishers rely on that data far too much...

 

[Mr. Giggles]

It's a start.

It builds will power, if you just bend over and take it then they'll start exploiting you.

However, if you believe in the concept of a free market and what they implement really is what the players want... Then you're just an old man yelling at the clouds

 

[Kolx]

Even the infamous Xbone reversal was something that happened before the console came out, so it wasn't something they reacted to because of poor sales, that was entirely down to them realising what it was offering wasn't something consumers wanted

There is something called pre-orders you know.

 

[Green Card]

It might work if all consumers were well informed.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

It works if those people shout loud enough the reasons why they are voting such. Just not buying something isn't enough no, but the combination is.

 

[Cryoteck]

It's easier to vote with your wallet on steam because of the new return policy. When all systems have a similar return policy only then will we be able to truly vote with our wallets in an effective way since it will threaten the first week sales of a game.

 

[Bolivar687]

I have to imagine that the Deus Ex 180 was at least in part due to low pre orders.

Also I would bet the next Titanfall has a campaign.

 

[LukasTaves]

It is effective, but unless something is so outrages that pissed everyone plenty will still vote by purchasing it.

I think this day seems to be a good era for the industry because we have many ways to speak directly to devs/publishers and make our voice known, so they can get the feedback that something is displeasing its consumers even if didn't reflected in sales. Too bad even that is susceptible to double standards, like: Oh, I usually would be outraged by this, but since it's a company/dev/game I like it can have a pass.

 

[Mephala]

I wanted amiibos.

So I bought amiibos.

Then they made more amiibos because I bought so many.

Mission accomplished.

Lmao.

Thanks Forkball, you're my hero.

 

[ODDI]

Didn't Deus Ex pre-order plan got cancelled because of said reason?

 

[Piers]

Batman Arkham knight for PC?

Voting with your wallet works, it just doesn't work when 99% of people buy it anyways.

 

[BrokenFiction]

Voting with your wallet in a vacuum doesn't work. Most victories come with a loud social media outcry accompanying holding back your dollars.

 

[John Kowalski]

There are demonstrable market behaviors that curb industry standards which are left unexplored even though they are obviously there for them to explore commercially.

I'm unwilling to think that publishers are moved by money alone, business people are people like the rest of us and have their own political, ideological, business biases and, most importantly, fears.

I guess not investing in products you feel are against your ideals is a start, but it's definitely not enough to curb market practices.

 

[Tobor]

A lot of the time when it's revealed a game is doing something anti consumer or adopting an unpopular financial model, a lot of the time there are people who make the "vote with your wallet" argument

Is there any proof that this has ever worked? Even the infamous Xbone reversal was something that happened before the console came out, so it wasn't something they reacted to because of poor sales, that was entirely down to them realising what it was offering wasn't something consumers wanted

With games in particular, a lot of the stuff they are implementing doesn't cost much to add into the game, and even if most players ignore it, the few that don't will make it worthwhile, and keeping this kind of thing in games will cause the majority to get used to them being there anyway

If anything, microtransactions making a publisher less than expected will probably cause them to push for the design of the game to change in order to recoup more from them in future games

If you outright don't buy the game at all, that doesn't send a message either, if a game sells 4.5m and not 5m, and they lose 500k in sales from people "voting with their wallet" they have no idea that was the case, there is no way they will analyse that data and think "shit, we lost 500k in sales because we included a pay to win mechanic"

What do you think, GAF, does voting with your wallet work? Why do people think it does?

It was low preorders that caused the reversal. The people literally voted with their wallets. Your entire premise is wrong.

Don't buy products you don't approve of. Even if the company doesn't change direction, at least you don't own a product you don't want. It's that simple.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

"Vote with your wallet" is the ballad of libertarians and other defenders of the status quo. They realize an industry caters to their desires, and fear losing it when others seek to make it more open to everyone. That's not to say 'voting with your wallet' doesn't work, just that it's not pragmatic to progression, very much the opposite in fact.

 

[IcyEyes]

.

 

[Doc_Drop]

OP I think you may need to realise it absolutely can do. The problem is you're getting out voted. It's similar governmental voting to me, in that unfortunately not enough people share my vote for that particular vote to work therfore a take away can be that voting doesn't work when in actual fact the vote has worked for the majority

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Voting with your wallet does work.

Recent example: people dismissed Square's silly Deus Ex augmented pre-order system. Publisher decided to pull it.

It's definitely the most positive example I can think of. Nipped that shit in the bud, thankfully

 

[oni-link]

There are demonstrable market behaviors that curb industry standards which are left unexplored even though they are obviously there for them to explore commercially.

I'm unwilling to think that publishers are moved by money alone, business people are people like the rest of us and have their own political, ideological, business biases and, most importantly, fears.

I guess not investing in products you feel are against your ideals is a start, but it's definitely not enough to curb market practices.

That is a far more elegant way of expressing what I was trying to say

 

[PeskyToaster]

It works but people want different things than you and have different priorities. It's not not working, you're just getting outvoted.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

It works if it's something big enough that it pisses off just about everybody. Such as the xbone with pre-orders and deus Ex.


But for something less controversial, like a season pass, then no. It doesn't work.

 

[oni-link]

OP I think you may need to realise it absolutely can do. The problem is you're getting out voted. It's similar governmental voting to me, in that unfortunately not enough people share my vote for that particular vote to work therfore a take away can be that voting doesn't work when in actual fact the vote has worked for the majority

Then it doesn't work, If it's not having an influence or achieving the desired outcome then what criteria is it fulfilling in order for you to say it has "worked"?

 

[Shredderi]

For some things it works, for some things it doesn't. Worst cases are where the base game is actually good but the marketing team has implemented some anti-consumerist things and then people vote with their wallets and instead of looking at the reason people really didn't buy the game, they just interpret it as "I guess there's no demand for this type of game" and kill franchises.

 

[Kill3r7]

Voting with your wallet works really well only as long as there are enough other people who see things your way.

 

[OBias]

I feel like I have seen a thread with the exactly same name before.

 

[samn]

The problem is that even when a lot of these products employ 'questionable' practices, they're often still worth the price if you were about to buy it anyway.

I'd still buy MGS 5 all over again even after all this FOB nonsense. It's given me £30 of value after just 25 hours. Even many of these games with microtransactions as part of the SP gameplay are still fantastic.

(someone brought up Evolve, yes it had a lot of DLC, but what's always missed is that it was all cosmetic)

 

[Podge293]

you need a relatively large effort for it to work... if 10 people "vote with their wallets" but 1000 people go buy it, it doesn't make a lick of a difference

flip it around though, publishers/devs/stores/etc will start to cop on and adapt

 

[oni-link]

It was low preorders that caused the reversal. The people literally voted with their wallets. Your entire premise is wrong.

Don't buy products you don't approve of. Even if the company doesn't change direction, at least you don't own a product you don't want. It's that simple.

The Xbone thing was because of all the bad press and how it became very clear the market didn't want games tied to one system, they wanted what they have always had before, and the fact their main competitor was offering that and they were generating an absurd level of negative press, it made sense to reserve that

They didn't just check a spreadsheet and see pre orders were down 17% and then change everything

 

[GuardianE]

"Vote with your wallet" is the ballad of libertarians and other defenders of the status quo. They realize an industry caters to their desires, and fear losing it when others seek to make it more open to everyone. That's not to say 'voting with your wallet' doesn't work, just that it's not pragmatic to progression, very much the opposite in fact.

Voting with your wallet isn't a concept exclusive to thosw stifling creativity. It's a general rule of business. It works both ways. At worst it says "I don't like thing." Which is perfectly reasonable when it's your money. At best it combats anticonsumer practices.

 

[Durante]

It works on Kickstarter.

 

[barneystuta83]

It definitely works. It just needs more people to do it.

 

[Tobor]

Then it doesn't work, If it's not having an influence or achieving the desired outcome then what criteria is it fulfilling in order for you to say it has "worked"?

You vote in an election and your candidate loses. Do you now say voting doesn't work? Of course not. You just lost.

It's no different here. The majority of voters decide the outcome.

 

[TP]

"Microsoft finally announced at Seattle's Gamefest 2008 event this week that Games For Windows – Live on PC would be free of charge."

"Microsoft previously came under fire for charging PC gamers to get the "premium" online features in Games For Windows- Live titles, such as TrueSkill matchmaking, cross-platform gameplay and multiplayer achievements."

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/games-for-windows-live-goes-free-430738

 

[Portugeezer]

It works, unless you are in the minority. If you are then you are fucked.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

Batman Arkham knight for PC?

Eeeh, people voted with their wallets buy using the money from the said wallet to buy the game and then complained about it so much that they pulled the game. Not sure if that counts. More like "voting by actually using your voice, which is the basis of voting"


edit: I do acknowledge that Steam refunds must have contributed to the say, but I'd argue that the game would have been pulled anyway.

 

[Mufausa The 3rd]

I didn't buy evolve and that seems to be working

^
Couldn't have said that any better myself. That game tanked so hard. Regardless what people say. 2K is lying when they say that game did well for them.

 

[NateGrigs]

I think it works but its hard to see the impact of one vote. Part of the "infamous Xbone reversal" was the unbundling of the Kinect, which was a response to poor sales. On the flip side you can see how an extremely successful (profitable) idea ripples throughout the industry. Wiis early success led to kinect/move, COD influenced most following FPSs.