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[Griss]

Of course it works. The only problem is, rather like democracy, sometimes you lose the vote and have to deal with the consequences.

Pretty much every failed game series and genre was as a result of people voting with their wallets.

Online passes? They were terrible and died because people voted with their wallets. They didn't bring in revenue.

 

[GuardianE]

Eeeh, people voted with their wallets buy using the money from the said wallet to buy the game and then complained about it so much that they pulled the game. Not sure if that counts. More like "voting by actually using your voice, which is the basis of voting"

Weren't there maas refunds?

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Theoretically there's no way it wouldn't work. The issue is that it doesn't matter if only a small parcel of players vote with their wallet, most people just buy it anyway.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Then it doesn't work, If it's not having an influence or achieving the desired outcome then what criteria is it fulfilling in order for you to say it has "worked"?

Well I did say can. Do you honestly believe the democratic system doesn't work? I feel it's more like a lot of voters don't understand what they're voting for or that there aren't enough desirable candidates. But for middle-right politicians, voting is clearly working as they're in the majority.

In terms of products it's more difficult but I would say it absolutely can do. Not enough people bought/wanted Sega consoles so they no longer exist. Whether this bothers fans of the manufacturer is an unfortunate by product. The problem occurs when consumers like a series or franchise and are not presented with an opt-out regarding elements they don't like, and that there choice is to not buy/play something they like. See Tony Hawks Pro Skater 5, I'd love to be able to buy a decent skateboarding game let alone a decent Tony Hawk's game, but I can't because it's shit.

 

[Tenck]

Eeeh, people voted with their wallets buy using the money from the said wallet to buy the game and then complained about it so much that they pulled the game. Not sure if that counts. More like "voting by actually using your voice, which is the basis of voting"

Steam refunds.

 

[SweetJohnnyCage]

I didn't buy Evolve and I didn't back Mighty No. 9. I was disappointed by neither. Sounds like my wallet vote gave me plenty of satisfaction.

 

[ScepticMatt]

Eeeh, people voted with their wallets buy using the money from the said wallet to buy the game and then complained about it so much that they pulled the game. Not sure if that counts. More like "voting by actually using your voice, which is the basis of voting"

In this case it's more about high steam refund rates.

edit: beaten

 

[Bl@de]

Definetly works. But it helps if you voice your anger and don't be quiet about bullshit. Other people need to know too.

 

[Arthea]

It didn't work, not even once, because if it did, this industry wouldn't be ridden with microtransactions, season passes, incomplete complete versions, day one dlcs, hundreds of preorder incentives, ridiculous pricing policies, HD versions of HD games, broken games, you name it.

 

[GameSeeker]

Voting with your wallet is extremely effective. To maximize the effect, you need to vote with your wallet and send the company feedback about why you are voting that way.

Many customers forget the feedback part. For example, if I don't buy a game (Star Wars: Battlefront) because it doesn't have a SP campaign, I vote with my wallet but I also write feedback to EA explaining why they lost a sale. I will also post about it on NeoGAF, so other companies besides EA can see the wallet voting/feedback.

That's how you change industry behavior, one customer at a time.

 

[Windforce]

But of course it works.

See how many people voted with their wallet against the PS3 and what Sony did to reverse that with PS4.

Same with Xbox One and Wii U, people voted with their wallets buying the PS4.

 

[Satch]

it doesnt work at an individual level in the way that you would like, i think, but it does "work"

i dont pay for online on consoles anymore because i already pay for internet and i dont think i should have to pay to play online after already buying the game and paying my monthly internet bill, but theres enough monkeys that can be convinced to pay for it so the practice doesnt change

it didnt work for me but the greater public voted with their wallets that it was ok to do that so it will continue. thats the way it is

 

[Gamezone]

I didn't buy evolve and that seems to be working

How? The game sold a bunch.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Then it doesn't work, If it's not having an influence or achieving the desired outcome then what criteria is it fulfilling in order for you to say it has "worked"?

Just because you are on the losing side doesn't mean it's not working. It means your side lost.

The entire premise of voting with your wallet not working is flawed because there is more than one position. One of those positions is always going to win, the one that "votes" the most.

I'm not sure why you are struggling with this concept.

 

[Majukun]

the whole xbone debacle comes to. mind. nobody was pretty ordering the console, they changed it.

voting for our wallets works, always has, always will, but we all have to contribute.. and stop finding excuse just because we really wanna play those games.

 

[dantevsninjas]

Batman Arkham knight for PC?

You can't buy something that's not for sale.

 

[shoreu]

It works, but most consumer just buy w/o looking at the anti-consumer stuff like we do.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Personally, I think that even more important than voting with your wallet, is having some sort of, I don't know, "pride" or "disciplne" or whatever and award companies with good practices not just with your money but your time and mindshare. That way voting with your wallet is just a natural extension of your gaming habits.

Voting with your wallet only works if alot of people do it, otherwise it's inconsequential.

Which is why it's called voting.

 

[Interfectum]

Flawed OP:

- Xbox One reversal
- "Augment your Pre-order"
- Evolve

3 examples off the top of my head where wallet voting did work.

 

[Stone Ocean]

It works when people actually vote with their wallets instead of just posting about it on message boards.

 

[Arthea]

Flawed OP:

- Xbox One reversal
- "Augment your Pre-order"
- Evolve

3 examples off the top of my head where wallet voting did work.

outcry changed those, not voting with your wallet.

 

[Interfectum]

It didn't work, not even once, because if it did, this industry wouldn't be ridden with microtransactions, season passes, incomplete complete versions, day one dlcs, hundreds of preorder incentives, ridiculous pricing policies, HD versions of HD games, broken games, you name it.

Eh? Voting with your wallet worked in this circumstances too... just not in the way you liked. There would be no season pass if people didn't buy them.

 

[Ol No Bones]

The problem is too many people are ok with it.

 

[Interfectum]

outcry changed those, not voting with your wallet.

Pre-order numbers changed Xbox One, not Twitter hashtags.

 

[Harmen]

A lot of the time when it's revealed a game is doing something anti consumer or adopting an unpopular financial model, a lot of the time there are people who make the "vote with your wallet" argument

Is there any proof that this has ever worked? Even the infamous Xbone reversal was something that happened before the console came out, so it wasn't something they reacted to because of poor sales, that was entirely down to them realising what it was offering wasn't something consumers wanted

With games in particular, a lot of the stuff they are implementing doesn't cost much to add into the game, and even if most players ignore it, the few that don't will make it worthwhile, and keeping this kind of thing in games will cause the majority to get used to them being there anyway

If anything, microtransactions making a publisher less than expected will probably cause them to push for the design of the game to change in order to recoup more from them in future games

If you outright don't buy the game at all, that doesn't send a message either, if a game sells 4.5m and not 5m, and they lose 500k in sales from people "voting with their wallet" they have no idea that was the case, there is no way they will analyse that data and think "shit, we lost 500k in sales because we included a pay to win mechanic"

What do you think, GAF, does voting with your wallet work? Why do people think it does?

It works, but many of the general public just doesn't really agree to the same extent with some of the anti-consumer outrages, they deem the product worth their money.

And if the consumers felt they got short for their money in the end, it is likely to affect future sales of a sequel for example.

Voting with a wallet works but only if the majority votes.

You can't buy something that's not for sale.

Which was highly likely to be a response to the mass refunds. And I'd count that towards voting with your wallet. And I am glad that voting was effective.

 

[Teletraan1]

When MS got the preorder numbers back after the disastrous TVTVTV reveal and did a 180 on those policies it worked then. It only works when a lot of people outright reject something. As an individual deciding to not buy something for an unknown to the publisher reason. No it doesn't work. But you should still complain about it online on these sites. It can be difficult sometimes because there are a bunch of overbearing assholes here that have their game bonners jacked to 11 so any dissenting opinion gets jumped on but you as a consumer have a right to spend your money how you like for whatever reason you want.

 

[stan423321]

Voting by means of wallet doesn't work if there's no vote in the first place.

The company must be aware that whatever made you not buy something was that thing in the first place and able to consider abandoning it. If they are very focused on doing things their way, or aren't considering it a major negative for someone, then there's no vote on the issue.

On the other hand you must consider the fact that you may just have been outvoted. This is a built-in feature of most voting systems that one could arguably consider a bug, but as soon as you accept the idea of voting in the first place, you must accept the fact you can lose.

 

[Comet]

Voting with your wallet in a vacuum doesn't work. Most victories come with a loud social media outcry accompanying holding back your dollars.

I was literally going to post the same exact sentence. This is like a guy voting for Ralph Nader and being upset that his vote didn't result in the election of Nader as President of the USA.

 

[Gozert]

Voting with your wallet works, in a way. You just need to keep in mind that your wallet has a single vote in a market with millions of wallets. Besides, the average consumer isn't as well informed as you are. Thankfully, public outrage seems to be covered in mainstream media more and more, reaching a bigger audience. This is probably the reason Microsoft did a 180 with the Xbox One, because it also led to decreasing pre-order numbers. It's the combination of these two factors that lead Microsoft to turn their policies around. If Microsoft didn't see any decline in pre-order numbers because of the bad press, they would not have made the adjustments.

It's a start.

It builds will power, if you just bend over and take it then they'll start exploiting you.

However, if you believe in the concept of a free market and what they implement really is what the players want... Then you're just an old man yelling at the clouds

Correct. They implement with what they can get away with, commercially speaking.

 

[Majukun]

outcry changed those, not voting with your wallet.

outcry which lead to a decrease of sales which lead to people voting with their wallets -_-

just stop buying those games that have something you don't like,and they will disappear..keep buying them and something worng will come next time until they pull the rope so much it snaps

 

[Doc_Drop]

It didn't work, not even once, because if it did, this industry wouldn't be ridden with microtransactions, season passes, incomplete complete versions, day one dlcs, hundreds of preorder incentives, ridiculous pricing policies, HD versions of HD games, broken games, you name it.

To preface - I don't like a few of the examples you have listed.

However, does it not occur to you that the majority of people either don't have as much of an issue as you, or that they in fact like these things? And that there are more of them than you? Just a thought

 

[Jamix012]

Voting with your wallet only works if alot of people do it, otherwise it's inconsequential.

But yea, generally it does work.

Yes but consider that if it's not a lot of people doing it that perhaps it's not an important issue to a lot of people. In the case of problems that are accepted by the "mainstream" but shunned my "core" gamers, like Microtransactions in $60 games, voting with one's wallet will be only somewhat effective. Raising your voice in tandem with voting with your wallet would be the most effective method.

 

[devonodev]

Nah, it's all about the hashtags.

 

[SmartBase]

If you outright don't buy the game at all, that doesn't send a message either, if a game sells 4.5m and not 5m, and they lose 500k in sales from people "voting with their wallet" they have no idea that was the case, there is no way they will analyse that data and think "shit, we lost 500k in sales because we included a pay to win mechanic"

Care to elaborate? Why don't they have an idea why their product didn't sell as much as their projections?

 

[FriedConsole]

There is so much gamer complaining about dumb shit that gaming companies are just ignoring everything now instead of trying to deal with the important stuff. Even trying to rectify it doesn't make people happy and they still complain. See Mass Effect 3 ending.

You can go in uproar about Konami's microtransaction "insurance" and they aren't going to give a fuck. Their response is "fuck it" and to stop making games.

 

[PtM]

Voting with your wallet works as much as not voting in general does, for better or worse.

 

[Arthea]

To preface - I don't like a few of the examples you have listed.

However, does it not occur to you that the majority of people either don't have as much of an issue as you, or that they in fact like these things? And that there are more of them than you? Just a thought

I'm aware, it's doesn't mean I have to approve. OP asked did voting with your wallet works, in my experience it doesn't, as I said I can't think one one example where it actually worked, because there are people that defend anything, because of us being different, having different preferences and all that stuff.

 

[21XX]

Your argument seems to be "if not enough people do it, it won't work." Of course that's the case. If not enough people vote for a person in an election, they won't win.

If a game comes out and it sells like garbage because people refuse to buy it, it's curtains. No more of that.

 

[Revolutionary]

Agreed. Came to this realization when my friends were lapping up the premium edition of ESO on console ($100+), AND then harping about how it was free to play (lol) so they didn't feel bad about paying $15 for a horse or whatever. For every one of us that thinks "I'll vote with my wallet and not buy this", there's at least one other person thinking "oh shit new content, gotta buy it".

 

[FriedConsole]

Oh come on, they aren't dipping out of AAA games because they're tired of gamers complaining...

No that isn't why Konami isn't making games anymore but it doesn't help that the gaming community is now a unsatisfiable group of complainers.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Uhhh it totally works

But not from your individual perspective

Its a MARKET force so the entirety of the buying public has to be considered


So unless there is some mass way to influence consumers that something is a "bad deal" of course not buying something will matter. Why?

Well figure out if you represent a minority interest or not.

This is exactly why people choose the other route (being the loudest voice in a realtive minority)

 

[akira28]

I vote with my hatred. My wallet doesn't seem to affect much. But my hatred seems to have singlehandedly destroyed the Xbox.

edit: and through indirect love, the WiiU has survived. Not thrived, but survived.

 

[oni-link]

Care to elaborate? Why don't they have an idea why their product didn't sell as much as their projections?

If you're planing on buying a game, then decide not to because of something in the game, do you send the publisher a letter explaining why they lost the sale?

If not how will they know how many sales they lost because of wallet voting?

There are probably a handful of people that didn't buy MGSV because Hayter wasn't voicing Snake, then others because they didn't like the FOB stuff, how does the publisher get this information?

Maybe I wasn't clear in the OP, I'm not saying democracy doesn't work, I mean the "vote with your wallet" argument that is made on GAF when someone posts complaining about something anti consumer in a game, isn't a productive argument, because the majority don't care, and it won't change anything

We could all complain about microtransactions in paid games for the next decade, voting with our wallets and all, but every big holiday game for 2025 is going to contain microtransactions, that is the way the industry is going

 

[CaptainDreads]

As with any type of voting. It only really works if you're voting for the winning side.

 

[fvng]

pretty sure that deus ex "augment your preorder" nonsense was unsuccessful because nobody bought into it

 

[Oersted]

"Just vote with your wallet" is mostly a way to say "shut up, stop complaining".

Reality is, voting with your wallet alone doesn't work. Its like democracy without protests.

pretty sure that deus ex "augment your preorder" nonsense was unsuccessful because nobody bought into it

People also expressed alot that they dislike it.

 

[redcrayon]

It works when combined with enough people saying why. See the Deux Ex 'augment your pre-order' debacle.

 

[machemachete]

It works because while some guys here don't buy X stuff, a whole other group of guys just don't care and buy it.

If some payment model hasn't dissapeared is simply because some other lot of people is supporting it.

 

[Htown]

It only works when you're also very loud about why you're voting that way with your wallet.

Unfortunately some people use "vote with your wallet" as a synonym for "stop complaining and just don't buy it."

Not this nonsense again.

 

[kinoki]

It works. But just like any democracy the candidate that you support don't always win. Not all of micro transactions are bad. Some are good. Even the worst are still optional and even they have a few happy customers.