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The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master
- Thread starter Cindi Mayweather
- Start date
watch replays, use training mode, play attentively
Really only true for most Ken players. Ken is what Blanka would play if he was real.
skLaFarebear
Member
I gotta get ultra on steam soon. I know too many people playing on there and not PS4 lol.
a primal example of footsies
http://gfycat.com/PoorBelovedAmericanbadger
http://gfycat.com/PoorBelovedAmericanbadger
For shame on me then.
DeadDuck144
Member
I'd love to get better at Smash 4 or Melee and would be thrilled with the opportunity to be mentored at either. Also, if there's anybody who doesn't feel tournament ready yet, I'd be down to practice against someone close to my skill-level (I'm only winning about 40-50% of the time playing For Glory on Smash 4).
I'd also love to get into Street Fighter, but have virtually no experience playing it. Again, would be open to either some one-on-one instruction or practice against somebody else close to my (non-existent) skill-level.
I'd also love to get into Street Fighter, but have virtually no experience playing it. Again, would be open to either some one-on-one instruction or practice against somebody else close to my (non-existent) skill-level.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Some other classic 3s matches of mines from the vault.
http://youtu.be/8z2k8-7beFk
http://youtu.be/_jl11tqDNhw
http://youtu.be/8z2k8-7beFk
http://youtu.be/_jl11tqDNhw
subbing for revelator and melty. I'm going to be ready for 2009 round 2
same here. i can also play on ps3
Three suggestions:
1) While playing For Glory/online, save any replays where you "did bad" or you know you did bad and watch them after your session. Watch both your opponent and yourself to see where things went wrong. You may need to watch them multiple times to notice -- you need to train your eyes to notice what's "bad" and what's "good" (or where you went auto-pilot and to then say that wasn't good). From that you can then tell yourself what you should keep doing more of and what you should do less of.
2) In conjunction with the above, literally tell yourself (once you've discovered bad habits or stuff that is "wrong") not to do whatever it is. For myself, when I was playing Smash before I met anyone semi-competitive I used to roll quite a lot (this is usually one of the common bad habits people who start taking Smash to a comp. level have in general) but what I did to stop myself from rolling so much was literally setting it as a goal to stop rolling. And to reach that goal I did a "training regimen" where I told myself in matches (while playing mentally) "don't roll, don't roll" and slowly I'd learn what would be better to do instead of a roll. In this case, it was usually better to jump in place or dash away or some other option (depending on the situation).
This was quite a long time ago (like 2005-2006 lool), though, and obviously now I only roll when it's absolutely necessary (or... an accident lol).
3) Since you go to weeklies, why don't you try asking the people you lose against about the matches you played? Ask them what they see as bad habits. A lot of people at tournaments are always willing to help and hey, you may even get a few casuals in with them where they're pointing out the bad habits or poor decision making or about the auto-piloting you do. Or, ask them about what you could do differently to fix your problems you're having.
I'd assume you've done this but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in the post so just in case you hadn't... definitely do the above.
That's about all I can say without playing you specifically or seeing any vids.
sf2fanatic
Member
But I thought a certain famous SF player said he might main it til V comes out.
USF4 tips: don't pick deejay
I can play tomorrow afternoon. Might play on pad to save myself some embarrassment but I haven't touched pad in a while so it may be for naught lol. If you also have a console I can get you in touch with others far better than me and better teachers. Also look out for Fujiwara Tofu Shop on fightcade. A top American player and willing to help out those who ask sometimes.
That may be the philosophy of old. The new ken philsophy goes like something like this:
I'm in vsav now if you want to play a few.
I'm outta town till the 5th but once I get back imma start bugging you guys for games. Thanks guys.
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
Awesome thread OP. I started getting into fighting games casually about 2 years ago and play them frequently but casually. With SFV and KOF coming out though I think I'll buckle down and really get into it. Subbed
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Preface:
I'm mostly only going to be uploading losses in this thread. Uploading wins rarely presents any valuable information. If you beat someone you're better than, then it really amounts to nothing: you're better than them and that's that. But if you upload losses, you can see where the person played better than you and how you yourself can improve.
Today I'm going to do an exception and show a win against a top 1000 Steam player I have been playing with semi-regularly with since starting.
But first, I'm going to show how I got there.
This was me two months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_vS2UFu9V0
I didn't know what a meaty was, I didn't know how to properly utilize space, I didn't know how to proper utilize fireball's to grant space. All those random jump ins. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no inclination of the neutral game or what it was. I had no idea how to do footsies. This is bad. I had a mere 50 or so hours on the clock. Since then, I have nearly tripled the amount of time I have played to near 200 hours clocked across three different systems.
Want to see something really embarrassing? My Poison.
This was a mere month ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFSxXqhHyY8
I literally walk into the corner at the start of the match without much if any pressure, improper fireball game, thinking that the character's game plan was more about getting in your face than proper zoning, complete lack of fireball game. Zero idea on how to implement strategy, going in half cocked, not playing the game right. Zero game plan AT ALL. ZERO hit confirms.
Let's take a look at my Ryu now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRJUklFiulg
Proper spacing, good fireball control, solid neutral, solid footsies, good anti-air, keeping him out of my space, maintaining my position and not backing myself into the corner. I lose because I still have a bit trouble with FB's turning to DP's for reasons I have no idea why and could use advice on helping this not happen during crucial moments, but you get the general idea. Lenin said flat out that every Ryu match I would have won if not for those stray accidental DP's. That's how much I've improved in two months. Much less one month.
Now let's show a win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzJJOGiDlfw
Chun Li is my main by the way. Mind games, psychology, spacing, zoning, the ability to adapt, reflexes. Everything has improved in the past month. Even then, the win isn't perfect and he punished my hazenshu with an ultra.
That's why you take those losses and help them turn into wins.
I graduated from scrub to intermediate in six months. You can do it too.
I'm mostly only going to be uploading losses in this thread. Uploading wins rarely presents any valuable information. If you beat someone you're better than, then it really amounts to nothing: you're better than them and that's that. But if you upload losses, you can see where the person played better than you and how you yourself can improve.
Today I'm going to do an exception and show a win against a top 1000 Steam player I have been playing with semi-regularly with since starting.
But first, I'm going to show how I got there.
This was me two months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_vS2UFu9V0
I didn't know what a meaty was, I didn't know how to properly utilize space, I didn't know how to proper utilize fireball's to grant space. All those random jump ins. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no inclination of the neutral game or what it was. I had no idea how to do footsies. This is bad. I had a mere 50 or so hours on the clock. Since then, I have nearly tripled the amount of time I have played to near 200 hours clocked across three different systems.
Want to see something really embarrassing? My Poison.
This was a mere month ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFSxXqhHyY8
I literally walk into the corner at the start of the match without much if any pressure, improper fireball game, thinking that the character's game plan was more about getting in your face than proper zoning, complete lack of fireball game. Zero idea on how to implement strategy, going in half cocked, not playing the game right. Zero game plan AT ALL. ZERO hit confirms.
Let's take a look at my Ryu now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRJUklFiulg
Proper spacing, good fireball control, solid neutral, solid footsies, good anti-air, keeping him out of my space, maintaining my position and not backing myself into the corner. I lose because I still have a bit trouble with FB's turning to DP's for reasons I have no idea why and could use advice on helping this not happen during crucial moments, but you get the general idea. Lenin said flat out that every Ryu match I would have won if not for those stray accidental DP's. That's how much I've improved in two months. Much less one month.
Now let's show a win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzJJOGiDlfw
Chun Li is my main by the way. Mind games, psychology, spacing, zoning, the ability to adapt, reflexes. Everything has improved in the past month. Even then, the win isn't perfect and he punished my hazenshu with an ultra.
That's why you take those losses and help them turn into wins.
I graduated from scrub to intermediate in six months. You can do it too.
@above your growth is incredible. I need to hunker down and really try.
People have full time jobs and they still pull through for the love of the game :y
Games I'm willing to play at any time:
Jojo All Star Battle
Project Justice online netplay (which has never worked for me, but I'll still keep trying :/)
A horrific doujin game that I have to learn because I lost a bet
Games I'm shit at but am willing to play at any time because I'm learning them:
Xrd
Vampire Savior
UNiEL
Game:
USF4
Add me to beat me ez but I'll put up a fight in asb
People have full time jobs and they still pull through for the love of the game :y
Games I'm willing to play at any time:
Jojo All Star Battle
Project Justice online netplay (which has never worked for me, but I'll still keep trying :/)
A horrific doujin game that I have to learn because I lost a bet
Games I'm shit at but am willing to play at any time because I'm learning them:
Xrd
Vampire Savior
UNiEL
Game:
USF4
Add me to beat me ez but I'll put up a fight in asb
NoctisVsStar
Member
Despite playing good I lost this match in the first round when i dropped several Cmk into super. I lost this match more than the other dude won it, but the aegis reflector is just so sexy. That's the thing about SF3 or rather SF in general one minor mistake that you shrug off during midmatch is the reason you die.
http://youtu.be/bkQr1L261vg
The salt is real
http://youtu.be/bkQr1L261vg
The salt is real
Cindi Mayweather
Member
1:11 - Roundhouse sweep is negative on block and too risky. I should have stayed out or went for a block string then throw. What was I THINKING? Wait, I wasn't thinking at all. Thankfully, him hitting me woke me up.
Second round - should have played more conservative during life lead. Walked into the corner at tail end of second round. Could have won with well placed and timed fireballs.
Even when you do alright-ish, critique yourself.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
That may be the philosophy of old. The new ken philsophy goes like something like this:
found the guy who can't beat ken players
flowchart ken has and always will exist
NoctisVsStar
Member
Meaty, frame data/counting it and all this ish.. I don't know jack about it but I know when I see something safe or unsafe.
Been playing since 92 and for the life of me I can't count frames,
Been playing since 92 and for the life of me I can't count frames,
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I have never been good at traditional fighting games. I'm pretty good at Smash, but I have never really been "competent" at traditional fighters. I've tried to learn, ask for advice, and it still never feels like I'm actually getting better at all. Everyone always says "Don't worry about all the flashy combos" and then I try to just do the basics they talk about, and suddenly what am I getting wrecked by? Flashy combos that I cannot figure out how to do consistently.
I enjoyed BlazBlue and Persona 4 Arena, but I played those with mostly low level-ish players like myself. I bought Guilty Gear Xrd on Steam, but haven't gotten to play it. I'm hoping that purchase wasn't a mistake.
I enjoyed BlazBlue and Persona 4 Arena, but I played those with mostly low level-ish players like myself. I bought Guilty Gear Xrd on Steam, but haven't gotten to play it. I'm hoping that purchase wasn't a mistake.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
What platform you have tekken Tag?I play USF4, DOA5LR, KOF98, KOF02, Killer Instinct, Melee, and Tekken Tag 2. If anyone's interested on learning the latter three games, I'd be glad to help with some practice games.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Here's the thing, the majority of people learning are thinking of ways to combo instead of ways of doing damage via pokes or pressing your characters buttons. For instance, sometimes in a match all you get are simple confirms instead of high dmg flashy combos. You take what the opponent gives you. If all you need to do is Cmk into hadouken to win a match you did great. The moment you think " man can wait to try out this 8 hit combo I learned after hours in training mode" you're already dead Gif.
Right, not that I can even pull off the flashy combos anyway. It just gets frustrating to stick to the simple things like that and still lose anyway. It just feels pointless and makes me give up trying to play online in traditional fighting games. Maybe they're just not for me, I dunno.
Professor Beef
Banned
fuck combos
learn grapplers
learn grapplers
Correctomundo
Member
I don't mean I can't play. I mean I can't play with other people because the only local groups that play meet when I'm working. I'd have to quit my job to go.
But hey, if any Colorado players are available for a couple hours in the early mornings, I could always host a few games before I need to hit the sack. Northglenn/Thornton area preferably.
lol The only kens who beat me are the ones with 6000 ping or are really good at fighting games. Flowchart ken doesn't exist in games where you can't mash through block strings.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Nah bro don't do that. If anything what I tell people when they start a fighting game is one simple thing. Learn how to move the most basic thing. Forget execution just practice movement. Once you have a feel for that press buttons ( learn your characters commands not specials) once you know what he does. Check out the range of each attack after that you proceed to specials. Then what moves can be cancelled. Just dedicate 30 mins to one thing let me give you a roadmap:
Monday: movement
Tuesday: press button/range
Wed : practice how to do specials.
Thu: what specials attacks are cancelable.
Friday; basic combos
30 mins each day you won't get burned out.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Not really "hurt" per se, but more like he doesn't get as much benefit out of FADC and red focus like other characters (for example, characters with a DP). Plus focusing Sim's limbs is one of the prime ways to get in on him.
When you look at players like arturo and fchamp, you can see that they still know how to apply the fundamental strategies of Dhalsim zoning to the new game, and once they get a feel for the properties of the new/changed moves, it all starts to come together.
Basics such as zoning, space control, option control, footsies, etc will all be pretty important in any Street Fighter game, regardless of which version you are playing.
It's no surprise that Gootecks, in his ebook, writes that one of the best ways to learn the fundamentals of SF5 is to play SF4 now (since SF5 isn't out yet).
Fixed.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
There should be something humbling in the loss that after all that time you spent learning the basics, you still lost.
Just because you lost, doesn't mean you didn't grow.
Reasons Losses Aren't Bad
1. Losses are frustrating but losses give information about your tendencies. You won't win with basics alone. You have to work at it and implement the situations you're losing into the lab and try to beat out that situation. This gives losses a tool for learning. I caught a punish Ultra in my Chun Li fight linked above when I won during a hazenshu. Think I'm going to do that ever again against a Hugo when he has his Ultra? Nope.
2. Losses show that you have a lot more to go. Learning ABC will not help you win at these games. Learning ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP will help you win at these games. Losing shows you have more ways to improve. Hell, even winning sometimes.
3. Losses are what everyone everywhere has had to go through. Without losses, how could you possibly learn the game?
What do you consider basics? There's much to be learned from losses. More positive than negative. These games can breed bad emotions due to the one-on-one nature. In a way, you yourself lost when you lose, so it's only understandable. However, with that in mind, that should give you even more will to want to improve.
All of us have our frustrated moments. Those replays I uploaded? They're the first fights I've had today. I've only had six fights tonight. I've been spending the rest of my time in USFIV session today figuring out frame data, practicing situations I'm having trouble with, and finding ways to get better. Essentially, my time has been entirely dedicated to training today, and it will be for the next week or so until I think I'm read to go back to fighting people. What caused this? A series of losses brought on by Vulva last night.
Sometimes losses are so ego breaking that they just want to make you not bother. But breaking your ego is exactly the point of fighting games, no matter what anyone else tells you and no matter how swagadocious the pro tournament scene is.
Turn those losses into fuel to burn your desire to win.
Losses are important to be keep the fire burning in your heart. What matters is how you lost. Maybe one day you'll get that.
Hikami
Member
Subbed, I was excited for the SFV beta.. then I lost 10 times in a row and uninstalled. I'm more familiar with arc fighters like Blazblue and Persona 4 Arena but still can't win any online matches on em. Don't know if I'll stick with it but, I really wanna get better at these games.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Read what I said above. I lost a lot in the beta before I started understanding how my characters worked. That's pretty normal. Play casual matches rather than ranked to get a handle on what you're supposed to be doing. If you're losing without willing to put in the time to get better or understand WHY you're losing then...
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Then you really have to power through and have some self reflection on why you think you lost. Try to analyze what you did wrong and what you might do differently next time. Many players keep trying to do the same strategy even though it fails, and get frustrated by that.
What's very helpful is to find a more experienced player to observe your matches and tell you what you are doing wrong.
NoctisVsStar
Member
We all lose the point is to learn and not being so predictable in your approach. It's like cindi said learning the ABC won't help you in the long run, you need to learn the whole alphabet lol but my word of advice to folks is don't be afraid to lose and to get hit, I've seen opponent get discouraged once their life bar hits midway.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Cellphone boys at least you can upload it straight to YouTube right after.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Despite playing good I lost this match in the first round when i dropped several Cmk into super. I lost this match more than the other dude won it, but the aegis reflector is just so sexy. That's the thing about SF3 or rather SF in general one minor mistake that you shrug off during midmatch is the reason you die.
http://youtu.be/bkQr1L261vg
The salt is real
That was a nice read from that Urien at the end of the first round. Gotta say. I still think that's a match to proud of.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
KOF13, I'd probably say fraps. Fightcade, fraps doesn't work, so I use bandicam.
Holy Order Sol
Member
There isn't much advice that can actually help here. This is basically you slapping yourself and asking how to stop: no amount of explaining the process of not raising your hand to your face is going to help you make the decision to stop doing it. I can suggest watching some mid to high-level matches and trying to put yourself in the shoes of the players in terms of moment-to-moment decision-making, but that would just be one thing that might help you associate the game itself with constant thinking, and at the end of the day you'll still be the one having to make that effort consciously and consistently. Ultimately, you play this game. Shouldn't be the other way around.
The mental training part is really just you catching yourself every time you're not thinking then taking back control so to speak. It's understandable for it to happen if you're tired but it's important to recognize it when it's the case.
dr.rocktopus
Banned
First off thanks for all the replies guys :3
Smash 4 can save them with a button press. I use it mostly for when I do manage to style on people, although infrequently for actual analysis. I guess I really should be using it to improve than feel good about myself lol
Now that you note taking a break...I had one week where I had no time to play so I was constantly thinking about my game. Think about ways to approach, to space. Always thinking about Juicebox's video. It was actually a week I did relatively well, in hindsight - even if I didn't get past being 2-0ed, the games were close in losers.
Revven also had similar advice, thanks!
Add me on WiiU J58-P4 is my NNID.
I've been trying the "tell yourself" method but I seem to lose track. While I focus on one aspect I neglect others. For example Smash 4 Yoshi eggs are actually really good - comes out fast, good damage, and the inherent mix-up potential in angles, timing, etc. If I focus on trying to bait with that NAir and not flying in from across the stage and expecting a hit, I forget eggs. It's like I run out of bandwidth.
It's weird for me, when I play naturally I can mix it up a bit better (but still not enough) but use the moves wrong because of that disconnect from brain to hands. When I try to think, I forget my mixups but use a specific move a bit better.
Maybe I should look at "Don't ______" than "Do ______" like you did? I see that working because "Do" channels you towards one option.
Smash 4 can save them with a button press. I use it mostly for when I do manage to style on people, although infrequently for actual analysis. I guess I really should be using it to improve than feel good about myself lol
Now that you note taking a break...I had one week where I had no time to play so I was constantly thinking about my game. Think about ways to approach, to space. Always thinking about Juicebox's video. It was actually a week I did relatively well, in hindsight - even if I didn't get past being 2-0ed, the games were close in losers.
Revven also had similar advice, thanks!
Add me on WiiU
J58-P4 is my NNID.I've been trying the "tell yourself" method but I seem to lose track. While I focus on one aspect I neglect others. For example Smash 4 Yoshi eggs are actually really good - comes out fast, good damage, and the inherent mix-up potential in angles, timing, etc. If I focus on trying to bait with that NAir and not flying in from across the stage and expecting a hit, I forget eggs. It's like I run out of bandwidth.
It's weird for me, when I play naturally I can mix it up a bit better (but still not enough) but use the moves wrong because of that disconnect from brain to hands. When I try to think, I forget my mixups but use a specific move a bit better.
Maybe I should look at "Don't ______" than "Do ______" like you did? I see that working because "Do" channels you towards one option.
Hikami
Member
Consider the position I was in. I haven't played dozens of hours of SFIV like all the people I got matched against presumably did. The SFV beta (unless they've changed it since I first tried it) only had online play and a few seconds of training between matches. I had no time to practice anything. My mistake was going in blind to something that was pretty unwelcoming to noobs like me.