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[Subpar Spatula]

You could write this about most stories. They exist within context, they explore it but their themes are transcendental to the physical location.

GITS has a defined geopolitical situation (less in Shirow's original manga, more in other works), it has established Japan as a superpower, there is an obvious self-congratulation of japanese capacities with technology (the so called Miracle), several episodes are based on Japanese past occurrences, there is a look to the past of japan, the JGSDF and how the country distanced itself from wars, and if the second season of sac serves as an inspiration, the entire plan of Gounda is the return of the Japanese colonial empire. It's very much a Japanese story.

You can't say this about all stories, though. There's a large difference between Akira and Ghost in the Shell because one is actually focused on Japan. Having a story unfold in a country doesn't make it a story about that country. Did Infernal Affairs revolve around Chinese society? Let Me In? Oldboy? What about the inevitable The Raid US remake? These stories are about something more than their locale, and saying it is in a stubborn manner isn't going to convince people.

 

[Kinyou]

wait what?

so white people have to play asian people in order for a film about asians to have an american release?

He responded to someone specifically saying they should have cast someone Japanese. It's kind of weird to expect a Hollywood production to cast a foreigner as lead. That they should have cast an Asian American is a far more sensible complaint.

 

[Zoe]

He responded to someone specifically saying they should have cast someone Japanese. It's kind of weird to expect a Hollywood production to cast a foreigner as lead. That they should have cast an Asian American is a far more sensible complaint.

Seriously, this. I don't know why foreigners keep getting suggested. They're not even going to have that much draw over an unknown.

 

[Chariot]

Aren't... american studios constantly hiring brits and australians?

 

[Kenstar]

Aren't... american studios constantly hiring brits and australians?

No you see those guys just happened to be the white guys for the job

 

[BudokaiMR2]

it's disgusting and ignorant and just plain false.
while anecdotal my experience living in japan is that they have they have their own distinct ideals which especially for women are very different from the west.

That is very very different from my experience. Why do you believe that talent like Becky was so prevalent until she was recently ostracized over the recent bullshit.

I mean she literally went several years where she was the most prominent woman across all types of advertisement in the country. She even won awards for it.

I feel like people who ignore this problem just in order to keep their romanticized view of Japan are just sad. Almost every variety show will have a "half" woman who is just there to be a pretty prop and almost never even talks. That is disgusting. Pointing out that it is a problem is not.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

It is a crime that we are getting GitS as a live action film before Neuromancer.

Also want to take this opportunity because it needs to be pointed out as often as possible, Lucy was a god awful film and everyone involved should live their life in shame.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

That is very very different from my experience. Why do you believe that talent like Becky was so prevalent until she was recently ostracized over the recent bullshit.

I mean she literally went several years where she was the most prominent woman across all types of advertisement in the country. She even won awards for it.

I feel like people who ignore this problem just in order to keep their romanticized view of Japan are just sad. Almost every variety show will have a "half" woman who is just there to be a pretty prop and almost never even talks. That is disgusting. Pointing out that it is a problem is not.

Do you actually point out this problem among the people who surround you in your daily life?

 

[Zoe]

That is very very different from my experience. Why do you believe that talent like Becky was so prevalent until she was recently ostracized over the recent bullshit.

I mean she literally went several years where she was the most prominent woman across all types of advertisement in the country. She even won awards for it.

I feel like people who ignore this problem just in order to keep their romanticized view of Japan are just sad. Almost every variety show will have a "half" woman who is just there to be a pretty prop and almost never even talks. That is disgusting. Pointing out that it is a problem is not.

People like Becky are novelties--her own sister was told that Japan didn't need another one of her. That doesn't mean they're the standard.

Ueto Aya was just as big, if not bigger, before she got hitched. It got to the extent that her worth started to go down because she was over saturating the market.

Aren't... american studios constantly hiring brits and australians?

At least they can speak with an American accent.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Also want to take this opportunity because it needs to be pointed out as often as possible, Lucy was a god awful film and everyone involved should live their life in shame.

I would agree, apart from my brother who is an ex-pat living in Taiwan who was an extra (he didn't get on camera anyway)

 

[Skinpop]

I feel like people who ignore this problem just in order to keep their romanticized view of Japan are just sad. Almost every variety show will have a "half" woman who is just there to be a pretty prop and almost never even talks. That is disgusting. Pointing out that it is a problem is not.

different issues, I'm talking about beauty ideals not the latest celebrity drama or how shitty showbiz is.
Is it romanticizing to say that they have their own distinct ideals? Ask a few japanese men what their ideal type is and I'd wager the majority would go for something Yamato Nadeshiko-ish.

Case in point: the typical western image of a beautiful asian and the domestic ideals in countries like japan are completely different. In the west Lucy Lui was/is considered to be a hot/beautiful woman, in japan she is considered ugly.

 

[Broken Joystick]

http://screencrush.com/ghost-in-the-shell-whitewashing-scarlett-johnasson-vfx/

‘Ghost in the Shell’ Producers Reportedly Tested Visual Effects That Would Make Scarlett Johansson, White Actors Appear Asian

According to multiple independent sources close to the project, Paramount and DreamWorks commissioned visual effects tests that would’ve altered Scarlett Johansson in post-production to “shift her ethnicity” and make the Caucasian actress appear more Asian in the film.

It’s the latest, and most extreme, case of “beauty work,” the new trend in Hollywood to discreetly use visual effects to tweak an actor’s appearance, making them thinner, younger or stronger. The Ghost in the Shell tests were conducted by Lola VFX, the same company that aged up (and down) Brad Pitt in The Curious Case of Benjamin Button and is considered the industry leader in so-called beauty work. Though the tests were requested by the production team, once they were developed and reviewed, the idea was rejected “immediately,” says an insider.

We reached out to Paramount Pictures who acknowledged the tests, but refute the claim that Johansson was involved:

A test was done related to a specific scene for a background actor which was ultimately discarded. Absolutely no visual effects tests were conducted on Scarlett’s character and we have no future plans to do so.

Our sources maintain Johansson’s character was specifically the focus of these tests, though they were done without her participation or knowledge.

 

[striferser]

I'm not worried about casting, i'm sure Scarjo can play Major just fine. It still a shame they couldn't give the Major role to Asian though. I'm sure there's a lot of them that could be a better match. the behind the scene staff though...

http://screencrush.com/ghost-in-the-shell-whitewashing-scarlett-johnasson-vfx/

‘Ghost in the Shell’ Producers Reportedly Tested Visual Effects That Would Make Scarlett Johansson, White Actors Appear Asian

AMAZING!
Good thing they reject it.

 

[PatThePassive]

All the scarJo complaints are to much. We knew it was ScarJo(who's a fit for the role) for a while and I knew when IGN made that video roasting her casting that there would be a lot of upset people but I still wasn't ready for all these complaints.

 

[Guy.brush]

last one is a crappy lit photo from the actual stage play.

Perfect.

 

[RedSwirl]

I don't want to be rude and sorry if I offend anyone, but I can't even tell anime characters are supposed to be Japanese. They all look white. I know some anime does have people that look to be of Asian decent, but never the main characters it's usually minor bad guys. Sorry if I offended anyone, that's just my perspective.

This was eventually going to come up.

There are pages and pages as well as videos explaining why this perspective exists. The short version is, anime characters tend to be drawn without strong racial identifiers because their audience -- the Japanese, is extremely homogeneous and doesn't need those signs to know they are Japanese characters. If you ask most Japanese people, they'll say most anime characters look Japanese to them. Without those strong racial identifiers, most people watching anime will simply project their own biases onto them. People from white-dominated societies will see anime characters as white.

 

[Shouta]

That is very very different from my experience. Why do you believe that talent like Becky was so prevalent until she was recently ostracized over the recent bullshit.

I mean she literally went several years where she was the most prominent woman across all types of advertisement in the country. She even won awards for it.

I feel like people who ignore this problem just in order to keep their romanticized view of Japan are just sad. Almost every variety show will have a "half" woman who is just there to be a pretty prop and almost never even talks. That is disgusting. Pointing out that it is a problem is not.

My experience is in line with yours.

"Western" features aren't the only beauty ideals in Japan but they are definitely the most dominate when you look at individual elements. Eyes, skin color, etc. Wanting big and open eyes is pretty much universal in Japan for example. however, that's also a bit of a weird case when you break that one down... The Yamato Nadeshiko image of beauty is a thing but it's much more so about the cultural and behavioral aspects behind it than a matter of physical traits.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

last one is a crappy lit photo from the actual stage play.

Perfect.

Nailing that god awful design doesn't really show anything at all.

SAC Motoko or nothing at all!

 

[PatThePassive]

My experience is in line with yours.

"Western" features aren't the only beauty ideals in Japan but they are definitely the most dominate when you look at individual elements. Eyes, skin color, etc. Wanting big and open eyes is pretty much universal in Japan for example. however, that's also a bit of a weird case when you break that one down... The Yamato Nadeshiko image of beauty is a thing but it's much more so about the cultural and behavioral aspects behind it than a matter of physical traits.

I hoped that with the casting is ScarJo, the film taking place in Japan and featuring a lot of background white artificial body's walking the streets could serve as a commentary on how "Western" features are the expectations of beauty and that in the future this problem hasn't be addressed. But hey motoko should be Asian I guess? I probably was reading to much into thinking why she was in a white body. That said this film won't do any of that

 

[Gully State]

Where is this Asian women use white women as ideals for beauty coming from? Big eyes as a criteria of beauty is not a white thing. It's something that's prevalent across all cultures and has existed forever.

http://www.womenofchina.cn/womenofchina/html1/special/13/6219-1.htm

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

I don't want to be rude and sorry if I offend anyone, but I can't even tell anime characters are supposed to be Japanese. They all look white. I know some anime does have people that look to be of Asian decent, but never the main characters it's usually minor bad guys. Sorry if I offended anyone, that's just my perspective.

lol you could have someone named Motoko Kusanagi born and raised in Japan working for Japanese National Public Safety division and people will still go "but she looks white."

I hoped that with the casting is ScarJo, the film taking place in Japan and featuring a lot of background white artificial body's walking the streets could serve as a commentary on how "Western" features are the expectations of beauty and that in the future this problem hasn't be addressed. But hey motoko should be Asian I guess? I probably was reading to much into thinking why she was in a white body. That said this film won't do any of that

This would be fantastic. Not only does that excuse the white washing, it allows themselves to be seen as the ideal with just enough white guilt to make them seem progressive and self-aware. Like white hollywood has a deep message for Asians regarding beauty and appearance. Thanks Hollywood, once again proving that you only care about Asian portrayal when it conveniently lets you sidestep Asian actors.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

This would be fantastic. Not only does that excuse the white washing, it allows themselves to be seen as the ideal with just enough white guilt to make them seem progressive and self-aware. Like white hollywood has a deep message for Asians regarding beauty and appearance. Thanks Hollywood, once again proving that you only care about Asian portrayal when it conveniently lets you sidestep Asian actors.

It would be like Blade Runner and its futuristic Chinese imagery, but in reverse!

It's like poetry

 

[Shouta]

I hoped that with the casting is ScarJo, the film taking place in Japan and featuring a lot of background white artificial body's walking the streets could serve as a commentary on how "Western" features are the expectations of beauty and that in the future this problem hasn't be addressed. But hey motoko should be Asian I guess? I probably was reading to much into thinking why she was in a white body. That said this film won't do any of that

Edit:

I reread this and while I like the idea, it probably is getting into a little weird territory, lol. I'd like to see them use ScarJo to discuss the core themes of the show using this situation. It'd be way too fucking meta for the writers to do well at all. It'd be interesting too and I doubt they want that. I mean look at that production staff.

Where is this Asian women use white women as ideals for beauty coming from? Big eyes as a criteria of beauty is not a white thing. It's something that's prevalent across all cultures and has existed forever.

http://www.womenofchina.cn/womenofchina/html1/special/13/6219-1.htm

It's a bit of strapping new things on old stuff. That's why I put western in quotes myself. Big eyes have always been a desirable trait but the narrative of it being western is fairly new, all things considered. I mean, there are Asian people with big eyes.

 

[Doc_Drop]

This was eventually going to come up.

There are pages and pages as well as videos explaining why this perspective exists. The short version is, anime characters tend to be drawn without strong racial identifiers because their audience -- the Japanese, is extremely homogeneous and doesn't need those signs to know they are Japanese characters. If you ask most Japanese people, they'll say most anime characters look Japanese to them. Without those strong racial identifiers, most people watching anime will simply project their own biases onto them. People from white-dominated societies will see anime characters as white.

I think someone said something like this to me before but I personally appreciate the well put reminder. I think another thing that played into this for me is that I generally, when possible, watch anime with an English dub if it's a series due to the sheer amount of content I'm likely be getting through (and when watching on the go as I have a cracked laptop screen making it difficult to watch with subtitles). The English dub probably distorts my perspective on the characterisation

 

[Jotamide]

Am I the only one whole thought Major Kusanagi did look caucasian for the most part? You know, the blue eyes and jaw features?

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Am I the only one whole thought Major Kusanagi did look caucasian for the most part? You know, the blue eyes and jaw features?

Not really at least for me she was the reason if I was playing a scifi game with character customization I always played as an Asian women since I was young.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Am I the only one whole thought Major Kusanagi did look caucasian for the most part? You know, the blue eyes and jaw features?

lol you could have someone named Motoko Kusanagi born and raised in Japan working for Japanese National Public Safety division and people will still go "but she looks white."

People bring this up with ALL anime characters. Even ones set in Japan in a Japanese high school with Japanese students. Doesn't mean all anime adaptations should feature white people.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Production still from the Toho Pictures version.

 

[PatThePassive]

Am I the only one whole thought Major Kusanagi did look caucasian for the most part? You know, the blue eyes and jaw features?

I thought it was by design with the puppet master being almost exactly the same but I guess we're just stupid or racist.

 

[FyreWulff]

http://screencrush.com/ghost-in-the-shell-whitewashing-scarlett-johnasson-vfx/

‘Ghost in the Shell’ Producers Reportedly Tested Visual Effects That Would Make Scarlett Johansson, White Actors Appear Asian

This is the some of the core poop right here. Companies don't want to hire minorities, but they'll sure as fuck put makeup (digital or physical) on white people to make them look like the minorities they won't hire, because they're fucking racist and also know white folks will gladly act out age old hurtful stereotypes than someone actually of that race.

And it isn't new either, it's just the new version of the minstrel show, blackface, "hi-how-are-ya", etc etc etc

 

[PatThePassive]

lol you could have someone named Motoko Kusanagi born and raised in Japan working for Japanese National Public Safety division and people will still go "but she looks white."



This would be fantastic. Not only does that excuse the white washing, it allows themselves to be seen as the ideal with just enough white guilt to make them seem progressive and self-aware. Like white hollywood has a deep message for Asians regarding beauty and appearance. Thanks Hollywood, once again proving that you only care about Asian portrayal when it conveniently lets you sidestep Asian actors.

#OscarsSoWhite

 

[shattyboombatty]

But that's the whole point, i'm not a casting agency, and this is not about getting a big box office name (otherwise you'd justify their reasoning to go with ScarJo, just because she's a big name).
What they have to do is get an Asian American (because the film is in English) actress who can interpret the Major, who's a relatively muscular and imposing woman, without a baby face, and make that person big(ger) through the movie.

Is this just about slapping a random Asian actor in there, or this about giving Asian American actors opportunities to grow (career-wise) WHILE making the best film possible?

So you're saying you want there to ALREADY BE other asian actresses for people to be chiming in with, and you're getting upset that people posting Rinko Kikuchi because they think she'd work?

If people were posting Lucy Liu or Michelle Yeoh, I would probably agree with you that they're just typecasting "some asian actress" as a good fit, but I don't think Rinko is that far of a stretch. Also if your criteria for a "good major" is one that's an asian female AND muscular, impossing and with very specific facial features good luck finding a 1:1 match with the 95' version.

 

[suzu]

http://screencrush.com/ghost-in-the-shell-whitewashing-scarlett-johnasson-vfx/

‘Ghost in the Shell’ Producers Reportedly Tested Visual Effects That Would Make Scarlett Johansson, White Actors Appear Asian

smh

 

[Numb]

It says a lot that people argue that she has to be white because this is an adaption for America. Reinforcing that white is right/is America the rest of you are slightly less so mentality.

As I've heard echoed, white people can basically play any racial group and hey it's just the best person for the job/most qualified. Suggest a POC and suddenly there's 101 reasons why she/he can't play the part.

Perks of being considered the default
Drop them in any role

 

[Mobius 1]

My problem with this isn't even the casting, which is a difficult proposition by itself. My concern is that it will cheapen the brand because I very much doubt the movie is going to embrace the post-humanist, existentialist questions of the movies and SAC series.

Own the source material or get the fuck out.

 

[UrbanRats]

So you're saying you want there to ALREADY BE other asian actresses for people to be chiming in with, and you're getting upset that people posting Rinko Kikuchi because they think she'd work?

If people were posting Lucy Liu or Michelle Yeoh, I would probably agree with you that they're just typecasting "some asian actress" as a good fit, but I don't think Rinko is that far of a stretch. Also if your criteria for a "good major" is one that's an asian female AND muscular, impossing and with very specific facial features good luck finding a 1:1 match with the 95' version.

I'm saying Rinko Kikuchi looks nothing like the 95 Major, and has a very different "aura", and the characters she's played so far prove that, too.
The only thing they have in common is that they're both Japanese.

Imposing Asian American women exist, some of them are actresses, and if you are a casting agency, it's your job to find the best fit.
If you're playing the casting game on an internet forum, i can see that it's hard to come up with many names, probably because (famous) Asian Americans in hollywood, you can count them on one hand, but it still doesn't make Rinko any less of a miscast for that character.

Also, of course there's the other point i was making: She can't speak English fluently.

 

[Not]

At least if it sucks, it wouldn't be a nail in the coffin on Asians in lead roles. Doubt it'd have as much impact with the all-white cast (definitely/specifically Scarlet) of these anime-gone-hollywood adaptions.

...at least production values will be good[?].

And you know the Asian lead would be the FIRST fucking thing Hollywood would blame

 

[Akainu]

No you see those guys just happened to be the white guys for the job

https://instantostrich.com/

 

[Stallion Dan]

If they cast a western actress they should have stuck with a western hairstyle.

 

[G-Unit]

Realistically, if she were to be in a GitS movie, I'd want her speaking Japanese in it, and by extension for it to be a Japanese-language production. But if that did happen, chances are it'd look like a TV movie, so it's probably better that it didn't.

yeah....no

 

[godhandiscen]

It is a crime that we are getting GitS as a live action film before Neuromancer.

Also want to take this opportunity because it needs to be pointed out as often as possible, Lucy was a god awful film and everyone involved should live their life in shame.

We got Blade Runner. But yeah... weebs buy shit I guess.

 

[Platy]

It is a crime that we are getting GitS as a live action film before Neuromancer.

Also want to take this opportunity because it needs to be pointed out as often as possible, Lucy was a god awful film and everyone involved should live their life in shame.

We started with Matrix.

Neuromancer will be like the last one to be adapted

 

[the black pearl]

Nailing that god awful design doesn't really show anything at all.

SAC Motoko or nothing at all!

SSS Motoko with that coat = GOAT

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Do you actually point out this problem among the people who surround you in your daily life?

No because there is such a thing as tact and I like to believe I have it in every day life.

Being a judgemental asshole only flies on the Internet.

What would you suggest I do next time I am at the park and the first thing out of another couples mouth is not "Oh your son is so cute" but "Oh half children are so cute."? You understand the differebce there right?

Also I am baffled that someone would bring up Yamato nadeshiko of all things. That is the absolute other extreme in this conversation and actually has very little to do with physical features.

It basically boils down to the ideal of a subservient soft-spoken woman and feeds into a cult of domesticity.

My wife still gets that on occasion because she is shy and she fucking Hates it.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

SSS Motoko with that coat = GOAT

Yup, that coat is badass.

However I never even noticed until I got the figure recently all the interesting details on the Arise body suit.

combine that with SAC Motoko and her coat and that could be an awesome look.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

No because there is such a thing as tact and I like to believe I have it in every day life.

Being a judgemental asshole only flies on the Internet.

haha, so that's what it is.

 

[UrbanRats]

Nailing that god awful design doesn't really show anything at all.

SAC Motoko or nothing at all!

95 Motoko is by far the best, no question.

 

[Saya]

Ghost in the Shell - VFX Behind the Scenes

 

[Chariot]

Ghost in the Shell - VFX Behind the Scenes

Haha, superb.

 

[Skinpop]

What would you suggest I do next time I am at the park and the first thing out of another couples mouth is not "Oh your son is so cute" but "Oh half children are so cute."? You understand the differebce there right?

just say thank you? they don't mean any harm, seems to me like you are doing your best to take offence.

Also I am baffled that someone would bring up Yamato nadeshiko of all things. That is the absolute other extreme in this conversation and actually has very little to do with physical features.

It basically boils down to the ideal of a subservient soft-spoken woman and feeds into a cult of domesticity.

I don't really agree that's all it boils down to and while you are right in that it's more about character and personality than looks there are still physical traits associated with it.