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Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 | The 'Verse Awakens
- Thread starter Raticus79
- Start date
That's all I want in life. The light Outlaw helmet is pretty similar in concept, so it gives me hope that it will happen in the future.What they should be working on is making this a reality:
One of the character artists actually passed it up to their lead after getting spammed questions about it lol.
Guess that avatar would be a little reminder for CIG readers.
(Mine too, come to think of it, although they get bugged enough about VR as it is)
Dictator93
Member
BTW this (which was mentioned in one the last monthly reports in the DE section for VFX as well I believe too):
Is basically this:
http://www.klemenlozar.com/frame-blending-with-motion-vectors/
Is basically this:
http://www.klemenlozar.com/frame-blending-with-motion-vectors/
mercenar1e
Member
if anyone is curious about how the GTX 1080 performs with Arena Commander.
2715 x 1527 - steady 60 FPS (vsync enabled?)
4096 x 2160 - 30 FPS
2715 x 1527 - steady 60 FPS (vsync enabled?)
4096 x 2160 - 30 FPS
Aztechnology
Member
staticneuron
Member
Aww man. Still trying to get an EVGA. I am not funding the scalpers so I am waiting till either SC or FTW gaming comes into stock.
I was tempted to get a 1070 since they just got back in stock (or at least they were a few days ago). Still, my 780 Ti still works pretty well all things considered, so I may just wait for the 1080 Ti to come out. I've been doing the Ti thing since the 580 and I don't think I'll stop now.
Aztechnology
Member
I jumped on the 1070 MSI edition as I had some Newegg promotional credit. Not substantial, but enough to dull the pain lol. Still need to sell my 970. But yea, the 970 was amazing. The 1070 will probably be amazing and then I'll sell and upgrade in another 2-3 years. I basically treat most my computer parts as long term rentals and generally it's allowed me to stay at the edge... not bleeding edge, but close level of performance at very respectable costs.
iHaunter
Member
I would imagine 1080 can do 1440P/60 FPS with Ultra and maybe 4-8x AA.
I'm personally waiting for 1080Ti so I can do 1440P - 120hz maybe with two SLI'd since I have a 5930K I can do 16x/16x on my mobo.
I like to justify it with the rationalization that $300-600 every 2-3 years isn't really that bad of a price for something that gives me so much enjoyment. There's more expensive hobbies out there.
mercenar1e
Member
i turned off vsync and at 2715 x 1527 i was getting 64-72 FPS.
staticneuron
Member
Just rubbing it in huh?
Lol, that is awesome. I have a 980 classified. I normally do not jump on upgrades so quick but the performance difference is massive and I have a Rift. So hoping I can improve VR performance.
Sigh.... just got FE. To impatient. If anyone is interested BTW, Nvidia.com has them in stock.
Finally! Nice to see they support Google authenticator too.
Oh yeah, I just found it.
iTunes
Google Play
I think this is actually their first official mobile app, right?
They should just use a standard authenticator app like GAuth, or you can opt to get the code via email.
Why does nobody but EA (of all companies) use GAuth.
e: apparently it does work with GAuth.
Nice! Logged in and set up 2FA with the Google Authenticator in a matter of seconds.
There is an email option too. (hopefully people will open their email on their phone if they do this though)
Yup, I was surprised that the image scanning part worked with it too. Guess the apps must use a common format for the secret key.
Great look at the "Inner Thoughts" system in Bugsmashers today.
I might be looking forward to the end of the USE system more than anything else right now. And that looking at screens thing to see options, so good.
I might be looking forward to the end of the USE system more than anything else right now. And that looking at screens thing to see options, so good.
Aztechnology
Member
A simplified radial use is really nice. I like it.
Posting this in case it can be of use to some in this thread:
PC Invasion: Star Citizen backer earns $3k refund after contacting US District Attorney
PC Invasion: Star Citizen backer earns $3k refund after contacting US District Attorney
A dissatisfied Star Citizen backer has managed to earn a full refund of $3,000 USD from Cloud Imperium Games, in a struggle dating back to mid-June. The backer, who goes by the name ‘Streetroller’ (their real name has not been shared), successfully received their refunded sum after filing a complaint with the District Attorney of Los Angeles.
Correspondence between Streetroller and Cloud Imperium Games (CIG), as well as letters between the California DA’s office and CIG’s legal counsel Ortwin Freyermuth, can be read here. They were originally posted on the SomethingAwful forums.
In the correspondence with CIG, Streetroller contends that he is entitled to a refund because Star Citizen “remains unfulfilled and no longer constitutes the product(s) I originally purchased”. That refund request is swiftly denied, with CIG citing their Terms of Service. Specifically, a passage which states: “For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of [Roberts Space Industry’s] good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items.”
Here’s where things get quite interesting. While that particular passage has been in the ToS since the beginning, Streetroller cites a different passage which potentially contradicts it. The passage Streetroller quotes was altered by CIG back in June. Streetroller says he never agreed to these ‘updated’ ToS.
That older passage, which can be seen here via ‘Wayback’ internet archiving, stated: “You agree that any unearned portion of your Pledge shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the relevant pledge items and/or the Game to you within eighteen (18) months after the estimated delivery date.” The original estimated delivery date given on the Star Citizen Kickstarter was November 2014.
Streetroller also cites a Washington State case from July 2015 in which the Attorney General enforced fines on the Kickstarter project Asylum for failure to deliver to backers. The cases of Asylum and Star Citizen are not identical (Altius Management effectively went missing and stopped all communication with backers). However, the success of the Asylum case implied that crowdfunding backers are covered by the Consumer Protection Act.
Under that Act, if a consumer (Streetroller) agrees to a specific date of delivery (which would be May 2016 under the original ToS that he signed; eighteen months on from the November 2014 Kickstarter deadline), they are entitled to a refund when products are not delivered.
CIG disagree with this argument, and reject the refund request for a second time. At this point Streetroller files complaints with the DA of Los Angeles, Federal Trade Commission, and LA Department of Consumer and Business Affairs (DCBA). After that, things start to actually happen.
Streetroller receives an initial refund of $900 USD through Amazon Payments on 23 June. Then, on 29 June receives three official responses to his complaints. You can see the response to the complaint filed with the District Attorney on the page linked previously. It comes with correspondence from CIG’s Ortwin Freyermuth, who once again disputes Streetroller’s right to a refund on ToS grounds (claiming that “None of the revisions to our ToS have affected [the] complainant’s position” before eventually agreeing to give him one anyway.
Two days later, on 1 July, Streetroller receives denials for his initial PayPal refund claims. However, on 12 July the rest of the unclaimed money ($1,660) arrives via PayPal refund. That totals $2,560, so either some of the refunds weren’t documented in Streetroller’s post, or they were rounding up to $3,000.
Whether the Star Citizen Terms of Service (either the first set or the revised set) would actually stand up to serious legal scrutiny, particularly when you get down to what constitutes an “earned” or “unearned” (the language used in the older ToS passage) pledge, is an open question while they remain untested. It’s probable (though can’t be stated with absolute certainty – I am not a lawyer) that legislation like the Consumer Protection Act, if applicable, would take precedence. In this instance though, CIG have opted not to push the matter further by simply agreeing to Streetroller’s refund request.
The story doesn’t quite end there, because on 11 July (one day before his PayPal refunds show up) Streetroller was contacted by an investigator from the LA Department of Consumer and Business Affairs. After an hour long discussion about Star Citizen, Streetroller says he was told to encourage others to file complaints against CIG with the DCBA.
What’s abundantly clear from this dispute is that it is still possible to extract quite sizeable Star Citizen refunds from CIG, providing you’re prepared to show serious intent by filing complaints with relevant US business and consumer bureaus.
Update: The first version of this article incorrectly gave the date of Streetroller’s PayPal refund as “24 hours” after receiving replies to his complaints to the DA et al. It has been updated to reflect the fact that he first received denial of the PayPal claims on 1 July, before receiving confirmation of a refund on 12 July. This was one day after being contacted by an investigator from the LA DCBA.
I should point out that the author of that article is known DS crony.
Just posting this in case it is of some use in this thread.
Funny thing is that the dude backed in 2014. Going by comments he made on reddit, he looked at the same way other people do (despite repeated warnings), as a preorder. Crowdfunding projects can do without these kinds of morons.
boviscopophobic
Member
They trusted the developer's stated timeline. That seems to make sense to me, unless you're saying that thinking the developer is untrustworthy is a necessary condition for buying in.
Zalusithix
Member
That's one expensive preorder. Wonder how he rationalized those ship costs without the whole crowdfunding aspect.
Lol, it even reads a bit like a DS blog. Too busy trying to make things sound important to tell you the things that happened in the order they happened.
I always lean toward fake on SA stuff because crazy elaborate schemes are kind of their thing over there. Any of that actually verifiable?
Edit: Kotaku got a response from CIG that acknowledges it, so I guess so.
"A representative for Cloud Imperium tells Kotaku that “Any refunds with respect to Star Citizen are made on a discretionary basis. There was nothing special about this situation. The fact that this particular party used a complaint form that is online and openly available, doesn’t make this any different."
Not a big deal to me either way. Good luck to anyone trying to take their chips off the table.
Swedish Magazine LEVEL had a pretty gigantic article of over 20 pages about the development of Star Citizens development and all its controversies and problems. It was a pretty damning article about the conduct of CIG, Chris Roberts and Sandi Gardiner.
Still have my 150 bucks in the project but as its been 4 years now since I backed the project I have forgotten mostly about them. I don't really follow the development as much as I used to and just kinda wait for something to actually happen. And in either case, they are my first class ticket to the show at this point because this whole project can now go in either of two ways:
They release the game and it is the most awesome thing that has ever existed.
Every other scenario and the whole internet will fucking burn.
Either way, I have front seats to the show when it happens.
Still have my 150 bucks in the project but as its been 4 years now since I backed the project I have forgotten mostly about them. I don't really follow the development as much as I used to and just kinda wait for something to actually happen. And in either case, they are my first class ticket to the show at this point because this whole project can now go in either of two ways:
They release the game and it is the most awesome thing that has ever existed.
Every other scenario and the whole internet will fucking burn.
Either way, I have front seats to the show when it happens.
Aztechnology
Member
Swedish Magazine LEVEL had a pretty gigantic article of over 20 pages about the development of Star Citizens development and all its controversies and problems. It was a pretty damning article about the conduct of CIG, Chris Roberts and Sandi Gardiner.
Still have my 150 bucks in the project but as its been 4 years now since I backed the project I have forgotten mostly about them. I don't really follow the development as much as I used to and just kinda wait for something to actually happen. And in either case, they are my first class ticket to the show at this point because this whole project can now go in either of two ways:
They release the game and it is the most awesome thing that has ever existed.
Every other scenario and the whole internet will fucking burn.
Either way, I have front seats to the show when it happens.
Totally worth what I've put into it. It's a sunk cost now, I'll watch it fly or burn. Either way it stands as an interesting experience.
Swedish Magazine LEVEL had a pretty gigantic article of over 20 pages about the development of Star Citizens development and all its controversies and problems. It was a pretty damning article about the conduct of CIG, Chris Roberts and Sandi Gardiner.
Still have my 150 bucks in the project but as its been 4 years now since I backed the project I have forgotten mostly about them. I don't really follow the development as much as I used to and just kinda wait for something to actually happen. And in either case, they are my first class ticket to the show at this point because this whole project can now go in either of two ways:
They release the game and it is the most awesome thing that has ever existed.
Every other scenario and the whole internet will fucking burn.
Either way, I have front seats to the show when it happens.
I recommend checking Alpha when 2.5 will hit
Also we will get new showcase on Gamescom.
And its still not 4 years
I recommend checking Alpha when 2.5 will hit
Also we will get new showcase on Gamescom.
And its still not 4 years
Okay, 3 years and 9 months, I rounded up.
It is still a long time and it is still a damning article about the conduct of CGI's behaviour towards people.
Dictator93
Member
Is it really a long time? Given the scope and given when we know F42 production actually started?
What was said?
Long time? For making such a game with a company that did not exist?
Most current AAA sequels are done in 4 years in established technology and development teams.
Given the scope of the game actually being in production for about 5 years and considering what we have seen so far, yeah, it is a really long time, what I meant however was it is still a really long time since I gave the people my 150 bucks for the game, not for its development.
Stuff like banning one of their biggest supporters, a guy named Kevin, over allegations about "industry espionage" when all he seemed to have done so far was try to prove or disprove that Derek Smart had insider information. He got some really weird mails sent back when trying to find out how and why he got banned when it first happened
Sandi Gardiner (wife of Chris Roberts) who got the job of president of marketing despite her lacking credentials, allegations regarding she using CGI equipment to make private films for acting roles (she is a former actor). Chris Roberts denied the accusations while LEVEL claims they got material saying otherwise.
Community managers who have made some really public outbursts against people who have had doubts about the projects development on live streams. Chris denying this while it is available on video.
Their forum actively putting down anyone who has critique about the game and its development by deleting threads etc. the classic stuff.
Several former developers who have come out with claims about the work environment at CGI like active racism (Sandi Gardiner being quoted as having said "We don't employ black girls here") and verbal abuse of workers, a number LEVEL have interviewed and confirmed as people who worked there.
Accusations of mismanagement of the money given to them like hiring private detectives to spy on people like Derek, paid with backer money (confirmed by the former developers). Hiring a cook that worked out of Roberts private kitchen and send the food to the office (illegal in the local state) among other things.
Using a system that I believe was called "Zendesk" to tag backers with etiquettes in order to manage them closer, a backer who had spent over 20K dollars on the game being called "special snowflake" among other demeaning things and several more people who found other similar descriptions after this came to light.
And a bunch more stuff which I can't recall in detail, as said, its 20+ pages about the game's development history.
Dictator93
Member
Production for 5 years? Are you talking about the protype year where CR and like 2 other dudes were building protypes of the ship flight and some assets?
I mean, you gave them XXX money "for the game", but aren't kickstarter campaigns and crowdfunding campaigns having higher tiers of purchases precisely for the reason of funding the game development? Isn't that where the term crowdfunding comes in and what it implies? Sure you get the game if that is the tier you buy into, but that is not the basis of the transaction on a number of levels. Rather you are in fact funding the game's development?
Well I cannot comment on specifics since I have not read it, but a lot of that sounds like rehashings of the original stuff that was posted about last year. Especially the remarks concerning the personal usage of funds from CIG heads and or office politics... things which are borderline unprovable slandering or allegations of fraud. Things which I am not too comfortable with talking about in an affirmative manner considering how baseless the accusation is (he said, she said).
RubberJohnny
Banned
I don't know why people react badly to the "long dev time" thing, it's true.
Everyone knows that the majority of the dev team is on SQ42 and the PU is limping along slowly as a result, and this will be the case until SQ42 launches, which doesn't appear to be this year. And even then they'll likely be on Episode 2 and 3 so I wouldn't expect much of a speedup unless they greatly expand their dev team off the back of Episode 1 sales.
There's no careers other than combat, and no indication they've written even a single line of code for the other careers. There's only 7 landing zones in various states of development over the last four years.
At the current rate of development, 2020 seems optimistic.
Everyone knows that the majority of the dev team is on SQ42 and the PU is limping along slowly as a result, and this will be the case until SQ42 launches, which doesn't appear to be this year. And even then they'll likely be on Episode 2 and 3 so I wouldn't expect much of a speedup unless they greatly expand their dev team off the back of Episode 1 sales.
There's no careers other than combat, and no indication they've written even a single line of code for the other careers. There's only 7 landing zones in various states of development over the last four years.
At the current rate of development, 2020 seems optimistic.
Dictator93
Member
What is true about it? That it has been a long dev time? Or that it will be a long dev time?
Hrmm. I think that is a pretty crazy thing to say considering we have seen videos of things like sticky hands or there are linkedin profiles discussing crazy things like SPH-Fluid sims for mining or something.
RubberJohnny
Banned
Yes.
That was for drink mixing IIRC. We've seen nothing from cargo or mining, not even a Cinebox pitch video like the ones we've seen for internal ship damage or procedural planets.
Take cargo, the design doc was written by a community manager with no understanding of code, so it involves crazy stuff like the physics on every bit of cargo being simulated and held in place by webbing that could get damaged so cargo could go flying and the server has to handle this infinite physics and netcode bomb within someones ship for the game design goal of them having to grab floating boxes and put them back. It is likely completely unworkable.
It also doesn't even describe how the cargo system will work outside of generalities. We have a bunch of differently sized cargo containers, but each ship has a differently sized and located cargo compartment. So to automatically load them, they'll need robotic arms with unique loading animations for each ship and container, and some ships block the ability to go in and out of the ship when the cargo bay is full (no OSHA in the future!) Where are these loading and unloading zones going to be around stations? How fast will they be? How many will there be? And then some cargo ships like the Hull Series can't even land on pads, they require their own unique docking and loading and unloading apparatus and we don't even know what that looks like or how ubiquitous they're going to be.
They also confirmed to have mining working in 2.5 in the past.
---
Games take long to develop. Yes it is true. SC didnt take longer than other games to develop, its actually in lower spectrum for the scope and development process it had.
Modular design?
You are also aware that having game of this scope running with netcode is problematic, so why are you surprised its not finished yet?
Zalusithix
Member
AFAIK we have no idea what they were using it for, or rather, planned to use it for. Plenty (including myself) joked about it being for drink mixing, but realistically speaking, putting that amount of effort into what amounts to a mini-game of debatable value probably isn't the most sensible use for it. That's not to say it isn't, mind you. Crazy stuff happens all the time.
Given the scope of the game actually being in production for about 5 years and considering what we have seen so far, yeah, it is a really long time, what I meant however was it is still a really long time since I gave the people my 150 bucks for the game, not for its development.
Stuff like banning one of their biggest supporters, a guy named Kevin, over allegations about "industry espionage" when all he seemed to have done so far was try to prove or disprove that Derek Smart had insider information. He got some really weird mails sent back when trying to find out how and why he got banned when it first happened
Sandi Gardiner (wife of Chris Roberts) who got the job of president of marketing despite her lacking credentials, allegations regarding she using CGI equipment to make private films for acting roles (she is a former actor). Chris Roberts denied the accusations while LEVEL claims they got material saying otherwise.
Community managers who have made some really public outbursts against people who have had doubts about the projects development on live streams. Chris denying this while it is available on video.
Their forum actively putting down anyone who has critique about the game and its development by deleting threads etc. the classic stuff.
Several former developers who have come out with claims about the work environment at CGI like active racism (Sandi Gardiner being quoted as having said "We don't employ black girls here") and verbal abuse of workers, a number LEVEL have interviewed and confirmed as people who worked there.
Accusations of mismanagement of the money given to them like hiring private detectives to spy on people like Derek, paid with backer money (confirmed by the former developers). Hiring a cook that worked out of Roberts private kitchen and send the food to the office (illegal in the local state) among other things.
Using a system that I believe was called "Zendesk" to tag backers with etiquettes in order to manage them closer, a backer who had spent over 20K dollars on the game being called "special snowflake" among other demeaning things and several more people who found other similar descriptions after this came to light.
And a bunch more stuff which I can't recall in detail, as said, its 20+ pages about the game's development history.
You realise that this is all a rehash of all that escapist nonsense from last year. The author was was interacting regularly with DS which immediately makes him fairly suspect. A few of these things are Derek Smart talking points, that have no substantiation.
Really? I mean they sort of also confirmed that the enhanced shooting was going to be going in 2.2 or 2.3. SM was weeks not months away. And Chris was going to show EP1 at this years E3.
Let me tell you about my personal experiences with this project when I put money into it. Back in 2013 I looked at this as LTI was going to be removed for real and you better buy now or else you'll never have LTI. So I bought a package for $60 bucks mostly on certain key things that brought me confidence.
Some of those things were:
1)According to its own director, production had started a year before the KS. So production had to be further ahead than what normally would be.
2)They were using middleware instead of making their own tools, which according to themselves would cut production further
3)A ton of money was being poured in by people. Surely with that amount of cash they could develop the thing
4)Even if everything falls apart, they've made it clear that you can walk out of the thing no questions asked a year/ year and a half after their due date was passed.
Now every single one of those confidence boosters is shattered. People rationalize the year before KS in production as "Oh there were just a few people brain storming ideas and working on a flight system" None of which has any use because the keep throwing away things they've worked before.
Cryengine has been a massive white elephant thats caused way more problems than what its worth. Something that was meant to hasten development has caused constant delays and of course people rationalize it by going "Well cryengine wasn't supposed to be used for spaceship games and they had to work on getting the 64 bit register and well the netcode is shit so they need to work on that too". Well guess what, I've been hearing that they've been working to replace its netcode since 2013 when they delayed arena commander. Now I go into the monthly report and they say "Oh boy cryengines netcode is really starting to limit us now!" Its been two and a half years what progress have you guys done with it !? About as much progress as a better patcher apparently.
All that money that was pouring in? Its obvious now that its been detrimental to the entire project. Whats the point of releasing a project that has a chance of being mediocre thus halting the entire gravy train when you can continue to sell that dream? You release information with just enough holes in it where people can just fill them in with their own ideas of the perfect space game. People will continue to rationalize that sunk cost with "Next patch will be the big one".
And finally that last resort of getting your money back? Well every single TOS update after the first has weaken that promise. The ultimate confidence tool slowly withering away. A guarantee isn't given lightly, it represents the confidence of the manufacturer or vendor, how long they trust that product will last before it can start to fail. It started off with a year after their initial ship date, then a year and a half after an updated date, now its "Well when its done but dont worry we will honor previous TOS, except not really let me write a stern letter to the AG and my customer for not understanding video game development (tm)"
I have no confidence left in this game so at the very least if something comes out I'll be surprised. If its good then I'll be doubly surprised. Right now I live vicariously through the buggy videos and gifs I see posted by others, not even bothering to download the latest avocado tested patches. I read the monthly reports to see how far delayed they are. And I used to watch 104tC before he got sick of having to answer questions and cancelling the segment.
LEVEL did bring up the Escapist article and wrote about its story in the history of the game's development.
They do their own investigations though, it's time they can afford when they do a bi-monthly magazine. They did have interviews with both Chris Roberts and Derek Smart in the same article too because Smart did cause quite a lasting ruckus.
Yeah, but a lot of their assertions are exactly the same but get a away with anonymous sources. Sorry, but my anonymous sources say they're full of shit.
I'm sorry but if you're validating that idiot in any shape or form, you have already lost the plot.
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