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[staticneuron]

overly ambitious games with constant delays is nothing new to CR. anyone can look at the debacle that was Freelancer, Digital Anvil and Microsofts rescue. if it wasn't procedural tech it would have been something else lol

Ok so what about the numerous games before Freelancer, such as Starlancer or the numerous wing commander games?

Given the history specifically, it seems as if that event with freelancer is what prompted Star Citizen to be created. We can kick back to easy resource wikipedia....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freelancer_(video_game)

Initially in 1999, Roberts announced the game would be available on the market by fall 2000.[35] However, the project suffered delays and by Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) 2000, Roberts said the earliest release for the game was at the end of 2001.

In June 2000, Microsoft started talks to buy Digital Anvil. Roberts admitted that his team required large sums of money, which only a huge company could provide, to continue developing Freelancer with its "wildly ambitious" features and unpredictable schedule; the project had overshot its original development projection of three years by 18 months. Roberts trusted that Microsoft would not compromise his vision for Freelancer, and was convinced the software giant would not attempt the takeover if it did not believe Freelancer could sell at least 500,000 copies when released. Roberts left the company on completion of the deal, but assumed a creative consultant role on Freelancer until its release. Microsoft instructed Digital Anvil to scale down the ambitions of the project and focus on finishing the game based on what was possible and the team's strengths

Yeah, so the question here....as a gamer. Are you ok with what is being cut? When someone announces something ambitious what is your reaction to it? I will never forget the feeling I got wen I read EGM spread about Soul Reaver, only to beat it and not get even half of what I was expecting.

We have a thread on it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=488564

Look at that. 4 bosses, 7 NPC, 11 abilities, 17 locations cut. If I never knew about it, it would never bug me. Personally I rather games that seek to push the envelope follow through instead of the suits looking at money and mass market. It isn't as if we have a lack of semi ambitious or strong-but-safe titles to hit the market.

I helped to crowdfund Star Citizen because of the increase in scope and the promises. I am patient and I want it done, and not hastily slapped together. So while you may joke about the ambition and resulting delays, it is more than just the procedural system which hasn't been done before. There is a plethora of things they are bringing to the table and it will be a much better product because of it.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Lot of sites picking up this refund story now:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...eveloper-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund

http://kotaku.com/report-star-citizen-backer-gets-2550-refund-1783699701

http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-refunds-ftc

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/167942-Star-Citizen-2-500-Refund

http://www.develop-online.net/news/...2-500-after-terms-of-service-squabble/0222263

Apparently CIG are just letting people have refunds now to head off the bad press.

 

[Starviper]

Lot of sites picking up this refund story now:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...eveloper-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund

http://kotaku.com/report-star-citizen-backer-gets-2550-refund-1783699701

http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-refunds-ftc

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/167942-Star-Citizen-2-500-Refund

http://www.develop-online.net/news/...2-500-after-terms-of-service-squabble/0222263

Apparently CIG are just letting people have refunds now to head off the bad press.

I feel I can understand both CIG's position and the customer's in this case. I'm still hopeful that the game will be good but can't help to feel the development is dragging.

 

[CyberPunked]

I agree that CryEngine wasn't a great choice, the movement kind of sucks, the lighting is dated, but they really didn't have any great choices back then, it was an awkward time just before a generation transition.

Lighting seems fine to me.

 

[RubberJohnny]

CryEngine 3.7 (what their version is based off of) doesn't support Global Illumination, which is the modern lighting tech. The old model has reflections that can be brighter than the light hitting them.

 

[Dictator93]

CryEngine 3.7 (what their version is based off of) doesn't support Global Illumination, which is the modern lighting tech. The old model has reflections that can be brighter than the light hitting them.

"Dated" because it does not use a feature that 99% of other games also do not have?

SVOGI is a decidedly expensive and scenario-specific way to do global relighting unfortunately (which 0 other engines have in their main branch btw as well). SVOGI in its current CE V implementation does not work properly for the multiple scales and even dynamism that the game requires.

They will have to come up with their own solution in the end in all likelihood for both indoor and outdoor scenarios: probably leveraging the zone system if you read the posts Ben Perry made on the CIG forums about how they will tackle GI when the time comes.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Loads of games support global illumination, it's in Gamebryo, Unreal 4, Frostbite, Snowdrop and Luminous, either integrated or through the Enlighten middleware.

I honestly don't care that much though, and didn't want to get sidetracked onto technical discussion. It's always the throwaway comments that get the most attention.

Game Informer: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...r-contacting-california-attorney-general.aspx

Yes, asking for a refund for a crowdfunding pledge is antithetical to the process. Backing a campaign is a risky endeavor.

However, CIG did include that clause in its terms of service, suggesting that it would deliver within the 18 months of the expected release date (November 2014). It’s hard to suggest that the original projected release was a mere estimate when you’re tying the ability to request a refund to that tentpole.

Star Citizen has experienced mission creep, has missed milestones, and is one of the biggest enigmas in gaming right now. I suspect with “Steamroller’s” victory here, we’re likely to see the crack in the dam widen. The controversy around this game isn't likely to calm soon.

 

[Dictator93]

Loads of games support global illumination, it's in Gamebryo, Unreal 4, Frostbite, Snowdrop and Luminous, either integrated or through the Enlighten middleware.

Those engines supports certain types of GI for their needs and within certain confines.. of course. But none of those GI solutions would actually work for SC.
I mean... if we are going to get technical about it... all those types of GI present in those engines some pretty large challenges / are infeasible for either SQ42 or SC in some capacity. They are all not truly real time / require lots of baked data to be stored to funciton in the first place / or are of rather low fidelity.

SC, due to the various scales present, requires eithe rmultiple types of GI for the different scales or some larger solution that covers all of the scales and requirements that still functions in a real time capacity. It needs to be real time due well.. the fact taht you can shoot out all the lights in a ship or turn them off, or because planets actually have orbital mechanics and a changing TOD.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Loads of games support global illumination, it's in Gamebryo, Unreal 4, Frostbite, Snowdrop and Luminous, either integrated or through the Enlighten middleware.

I honestly don't care that much though, and didn't want to get sidetracked onto technical discussion. It's always the throwaway comments that get the most attention.

Game Informer: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...r-contacting-california-attorney-general.aspx

The whole "expected release date" being November 2014 thing was invalidated as soon as the kickstarter ended. That date was only for the much, much smaller, mission-based squadron 42 campaign; which basically stopped existing and was increased in scope due to the amount of funding coming in. I do not think it is fair to expect the far larger, more ambitious version of the game to be made in the same time frame as that was going to be. So really, there has never been a date given for either SQ42 or Star Citizen as they are now.

 

[RubberJohnny]

The whole "expected release date" being November 2014 thing was invalidated as soon as the kickstarter ended. That date was only for the much, much smaller, mission-based squadron 42 campaign; which basically stopped existing and was increased in scope due to the amount of funding coming in. I do not think it is fair to expect the far larger, more ambitious version of the game to be made in the same time frame as that was going to be. So really, there has never been a date given for either SQ42 or Star Citizen as they are now.

I want to point out you're taking issue with a quote from that Game Informer article, not something I've said.

But what you've written here is incredibly revisionist, this is from Gamescom 2014, 2 years after the Kickstarter ended:

We also had a "2016" date for SQ42 from the Bishop speech video.

"Dated" because it does not use a feature that 99% of other games also do not have?

Those engines supports certain types of GI for their needs and within certain confines.. of course.

LOL, which is it? Also the game doesn't have shootable lights or moving planets, so none of what you wrote there is valid either.

 

[Geist-]

Mark Strong taking a picture of his in-game self.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

I want to point out you're taking issue with a quote from that Game Informer article, not something I've said.

But what you've written here is incredibly revisionist, this is from Gamescom 2014, 2 years after the Kickstarter ended:

We also had a "2016" date for SQ42 from the Bishop speech video.

Yeah i wasn't directing it at you, just the article you included. I didn't realize there was those dates, though. Still, some of those are out now and the ones that aren't haven't gone past 18 months after the expected dates yet.

 

[Zabojnik]

Who cares about dates.

S42, m8s.

Looks like we're finally getting some proper peeks at it in the coming months.

 

[Dictator93]

LOL, which is it?

I was referencing SVOGI in terms of 99% of otehr games not having it (just 2 CE developed games). Iw as not referencing other GI types - you referenced SVOGI not being in 3.7 in your original post, which is what I was talking about.

Also the game doesn't have shootable lights

Yes it does.

Uh huh.

or moving planets, so none of what you wrote there is valid either.

Pretty sure it will at this point. Just looking for the quotations as we speak.

104TC in September of last year:

(6:12) Doc Tari asks: Could you briefly go over how coordinate spaces work in the verse, per-system coordinates and galaxy wide coordinates.

CR: So in terms of how things work in the setup we have right now, in the system we consider sort of this center of the star system to be the origin of 0000, XYZ. The unit space in the engine is setup on meters so one year is one meter, and the center of the solar system would be where the star that everything would orbit around, or the multiple star systems would orbit around and so right now in terms of flying around that like locations we kind of have a debate whether or not give you set nav points, okay here’s arriving at this planet, or arriving at the asteroid field, So there sort of navigation points you can enter, and then also whether you could enter random sort of XyZ position to quantum to or we make you sort of fly to a cruise speed first basically enter that location into your nav computer and then you could broadcast it to your friends and it would be an entry, which is kind of sort of one of the explorer developer options so we’re sort of playing around with that concept but you know we are going to allow you to sort of set or explore or find off beaten path places but you know have pre done navigation points. So it’s almost like you would on a gps I guess. Then on the galaxy wide coordinates we would specify what system you’re in, so you’re in Stanton System, you’re in sol system, you’re in Tara system, so then you know we would be potentially sol system, earth, or sol system at this XYZ location and that will potentially see how it works because we’ve had some debates about actually having orbital mechanics, so obviously in XYZ position doesn’t really work unless it’s relative, because you know if you want to go to earth it’s going to be at a different point, it won’t be there. So those are kind of the things we need to flesh out. Right now in the large world map and multi-crew map it’s XYZ, in meters and we give you pre determined nav points and you can sort of unlock more and more of them by exploring around and doing stuff like that.

 

[Onemic]

Is there an estimated release date for the FPS portion of SC? I couldve sworn it was originally supposed to release last summer.....Then again the entire game was supposed to be done by the end of 2016.

 

[Geist-]

Is there an estimated release date for the FPS portion of SC? I couldve sworn it was originally supposed to release last summer.....Then again the entire game was supposed to be done by the end of 2016.

FPS was put into the Alpha 2.0 patch. It's not great, but the actual Star Marine part of the game might make an appearance at Gamescom with finalized (or close to finalized) FPS mechanics. At least, it was hinted at by a few devs.

 

[MasterOfPastures]

It is refreshing to see an ambitious, reach-for-stars project in gaming again. This pushing of the envelope, not just in graphics, but gameplay, is what games were supposed to be pushing for.
But even considering all that, I really hope what they have to show at Gamescom and Citizen Con this year wows and delivers, because despite the fact that I contributed like 250 bucks for it, I am starting to thin my patience supplies.

 

[Geist-]

But even considering all that, I really hope what they have to show at Gamescom and Citizen Con this year wows and delivers, because despite the fact that I contributed like 250 bucks for it, I am starting to thin my patience supplies.

You're not alone. I love to defend this game, but I'd like some fun gameplay pretty soon. Star Marine and ship boarding mechanics would be great. At least the latest ATVs the last few weeks do a great job of making me excited for Gamescom.

 

[Raticus79]

Oops, missed this thread about the refund:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1246884

 

[Zalusithix]

Oops, missed this thread about the refund:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1246884

Sometimes I wish I missed it. =P

 

[KKRT00]

Oops, missed this thread about the refund:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1246884

Dont go there!

 

[Mudcrab]

Oops, missed this thread about the refund:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1246884

I'm sure there's a reasonable and informed discussion taking place in that thread.

 

[Shy]

I'm sure there's a reasonable and informed discussion taking place in that thread.

 

[staticneuron]

I posted twice. I think that was one too many.

It blows my mind how comfortable some posters are with posting things that are completely fabricated, in the face of all the information that is out there.

 

[Zalusithix]

I posted twice. I think that was one too many.

It blows my mind how comfortable some posters are with posting things that are completely fabricated, in the face of all the information that is out there.

Runs the gambit from fabrication, to assumptions based on incorrect data, to spinning data to whatever narrative is needed, to just plain old disagreeing with the entire concept of SC and/or crowdfunding in general. Always a fun* ride.

Spoiler

*By somebody's definition of fun at least.

 

[KKRT00]

I posted twice. I think that was one too many.

It blows my mind how comfortable some posters are with posting things that are completely fabricated, in the face of all the information that is out there.

Yeah ;/ I hoped that maybe SC thread would be more moderated after all the shit that happened in all previous ones.

 

[Rephin]

Personally I just avoid those conversations. I have nothing but faith in the project, but if it fails I'll just take that Idris-sized L and move on. I know exactly what I got into. I don't think it's worth the time or effort to engage in a debate where both sides' minds are made up and the "winner" still gets nothing out of it in the end.

I'm pretty patient, though. It's not like Star Citizen is the only game I'm looking forward to playing. I can wait it out as long as it takes.

 

[Raticus79]

Updated OP with the free flight week starting today.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/promotions/Summer-Free-Fly-2016
(code is on their page)

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Runs the gambit from fabrication, to assumptions based on incorrect data, to spinning data to whatever narrative is needed, to just plain old disagreeing with the entire concept of SC and/or crowdfunding in general. Always a fun* ride.

Spoiler

*By somebody's definition of fun at least.

This is the thing that really annoys me about all the complaints regarding the game. The majority of them are based on just not understanding what is going on, even though things are quite clearly explained for those that do actually pay attention to the development of the game. Half the time they're just incorrect, like the "4 years is too long!", "After all this time this is all they've done?" and "The games release date was 2014, where is it!" sort of complaints, which are all just entirely wrong.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I'm not engaged with Star Citizen besides checking it out ocassionally, but even I as someone who has not paid any money towards it, am sick of the "its a scam" bullshit. I'm sick of people not understanding how fucked up video game development is. How the constant steam of delays and problems is why developers keep games hidden for years before announcing it and why it still manages to get delayed extensively.

I really hope this game will be good! It means a lot to the entire crowdfunding movement!

 

[CyberPunked]

Loads of games support global illumination, it's in Gamebryo, Unreal 4, Frostbite, Snowdrop and Luminous, either integrated or through the Enlighten middleware.

I honestly don't care that much though, and didn't want to get sidetracked onto technical discussion. It's always the throwaway comments that get the most attention.

Game Informer: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...r-contacting-california-attorney-general.aspx

I think your understanding of modern GI solutions is slightly incorrect. There is no technology currently available any game engine that would allow for GI to be present in Star Citizen.

 

[Calabi]

I'm not engaged with Star Citizen besides checking it out ocassionally, but even I as someone who has not paid any money towards it, am sick of the "its a scam" bullshit. I'm sick of people not understanding how fucked up video game development is. How the constant steam of delays and problems is why developers keep games hidden for years before announcing it and why it still manages to get delayed extensively.

I really hope this game will be good! It means a lot to the entire crowdfunding movement!

If game development is fucked up its because the guys in charge dont know what they are doing. If they dont understand how to keep a game within scope, and arent able to project how long things are likely to take then they really shouldn't be making games.

I dont know maybe this will be great when its released, but all this back slash is Cloud Imperium Games fault.

 

[Zabojnik]

Everything is going to be alright.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

If game development is fucked up its because the guys in charge dont know what they are doing. If they dont understand how to keep a game within scope, and arent able to project how long things are likely to take then they really shouldn't be making games.

I dont know maybe this will be great when its released, but all this back slash is Cloud Imperium Games fault.

What? Who doesn't know what they're doing? Within the scope of what, exactly?; The game they always wanted to make? All the features planned are things that they originally wanted to include in the game but didn't have the funding to do. Projecting how long things will take can't account for unexpected errors and delays.

 

[Zalusithix]

Personally I just avoid those conversations. I have nothing but faith in the project, but if it fails I'll just take that Idris-sized L and move on. I know exactly what I got into. I don't think it's worth the time or effort to engage in a debate where both sides' minds are made up and the "winner" still gets nothing out of it in the end.

I'm pretty patient, though. It's not like Star Citizen is the only game I'm looking forward to playing. I can wait it out as long as it takes.

Thankfully, I think the majority of the high end backers knew what they were getting into and accept the project for what it is - warts and all. So while a few large backers make waves every once in awhile about their discontent/refunds, there's plenty others with significant costs sunk that aren't sounding the sky is falling alarm.

But then again. "Random backer with X thousand dollars pledged to Star Citizen is OK with the project!" doesn't make very interesting headlines. Otherwise we'd both have articles about us by now lol.

 

[staticneuron]

Thankfully, I think the majority of the high end backers knew what they were getting into and accept the project for what it is - warts and all. So while a few large backers make waves every once in awhile about their discontent/refunds, there's plenty others with significant costs sunk that aren't sounding the sky is falling alarm.

But then again. "Random backer with X thousand dollars pledged to Star Citizen is OK with the project!" doesn't make very interesting headlines. Otherwise we'd both have articles about us by now lol.

I wouldn't want an article about me TBH. I doubt most concierge members would..... unless they pay us for a quote.

 

[Zalusithix]

I wouldn't want an article about me TBH. I doubt most concierge members would..... unless they pay us for a quote.

Oh, I don't want one myself. Not that the press really gives a damn what somebody wants if something was going to give clicks. Just pointing out that the topic wouldn't drive those clicks to begin with, so they'd have no interest in it. Reporting about positive or neutral things isn't anywhere near as interesting as outrage, scandals, etc.

 

[staticneuron]

Oh, I don't want one myself. Not that the press really gives a damn what somebody wants if something was going to give clicks. Just pointing out that the topic wouldn't drive those clicks to begin with, so they'd have no interest in it. Reporting about positive or neutral things isn't anywhere near as interesting as outrage, scandals, etc.

I see what you are saying. I do find that is a sad state of affairs though.

On a positive note I am liking what I am hearing about the Patch size reduction system. It is tough to do those big downloads repeatedly.

 

[Zalusithix]

I see what you are saying. I do find that is a sad state of affairs though.

On a positive note I am liking what I am hearing about the Patch size reduction system. It is tough to do those big downloads repeatedly.

Yeah, I really feel for those with slow internet connections, or even worse, data caps. Anything to bring the patching down to more sustainable levels is welcome.

 

[Geist-]

I'm honestly surprised no one has really mentioned the acid trip of a music video from the last ATV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3rqgoYxh0o

 

[Xplatformer]

Hmmm...can't log into the game (says credentials are invalid), but I can log into the website.

Also, when I go to my hanger...it's not the hanger i have on the site, and there is no ship there.

Disregard. had to update patcher to 2.4.5

 

[Zabojnik]

Get well soon, Ben.

I'm honestly surprised no one has really mentioned the acid trip of a music video from the last ATV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3rqgoYxh0o

Yeah, that was great.

 

[HelloMeow]

It stops rotating around any axis when I stop giving it input. Is there any way to stop the game from countering ship rotation?

 

[Chipopo]

Lando confirms no big reveals at Gamescom: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...lse_is_excited_for_gamescon_im_really/d5gwvav

There are not, at present, any "big reveals" planned for the Showfloor Booth at Gamescom. In the past, we've never made any reveals from the Showfloor Booth, those were always saved for either the Press Booth (also referred to as the B2B Booth) or our "Gamescom Party Event" (The big livestream event.)
This year, we will be streaming gameplay live from the Showfloor Booth, using the current build of Star Citizen at that time, and doing giveaways and generally having fun and celebrating Star Citizen.
While all things are subject to change in game development, this is how things stand at present. =)

 

[Raticus79]

Lando confirms no big reveals at Gamescom: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...lse_is_excited_for_gamescon_im_really/d5gwvav

Hmph, bad news with no party event this year. Guess they could be leaving room for something to happen at the press booth.

It stops rotating around any axis when I stop giving it input. Is there any way to stop the game from countering ship rotation?

No, I don't think so - I was going to suggest decoupled mode, but it doesn't apply to orientation. A script could probably be set up as a middle layer so your input gets treated that way. It's probably not worth the effort though - the end result would be like trying to control the cursor-based flight mode with joystick inputs mapped to relative mouse movements.

 

[Geist-]

Lando confirms no big reveals at Gamescom: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...lse_is_excited_for_gamescon_im_really/d5gwvav

Well, that's depressing as fuck. Guess we have to wait for Citizencon. :-(

 

[inkls]

Lando confirms no big reveals at Gamescom: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...lse_is_excited_for_gamescon_im_really/d5gwvav

on the flip side, does that mean they're optimistic about sq42 release date? Or does news like that not fall under big reveals

 

[Geist-]

Abbreviated 2.5 feature list:

I feel like I should hype of Landing Zones 2.0...but it might be nothing. Also, Items 2.0 so soon! Wooooah

 

[jaaz]

Abbreviated 2.5 feature list:

I feel like I should hype of Landing Zones 2.0...but it might be nothing. Also, Items 2.0 so soon! Wooooah

What might Landing Zones 2.0 mean?

 

[XPE]

Any place like Arc Corp?