Fisherman's Horizon is also the GOAT piece of video game music. I honestly don't think I've ever encountered another piece of music in a game that literally made me want to stay there instead of progressing through the story.
It doesn't particularly matter if it's 30 years or 100. I'd still call the Shinra phenomenon "recent." The outline of the world is traditional fantasy, with corporatism only recently arrived to change things forever.The only problem is Shinra has been around for a loooong time, at least decades by the start of the game; long enough for Vincent to have been entombed for thirty years and for the villages that were once the Midgar sectors names to be forgotten. Mako power has been around for a while, yet so much of the world is underdeveloped. And it's in a very generic fantasy way that FF games kind of hadn't been for some time; VI for example had a very strong early Industrial revolution overtones to everything.
I mean I'm not gonna crucify FFVII for it, I just don't think nearly as much thought went into the overall scope of FFVII's world as went into FFVIII's (or IX and X's, for that matter).
It doesn't particularly matter if it's 30 years or 100. I'd still call the Shinra phenomenon "recent." The outline of the world is traditional fantasy, with corporatism only recently arrived to change things forever.
It is a kind of generic fantasy world, but that's what Final Fantasy was I-V (I agree VI has nuanced world-building and I'm going to exclude it). If you go back and play the bulk of the Famicom and Super Famicom games as I have been recently, I think the traditional towns in VII "read" completely differently. They're traditional jRPG towns. They're classically Final Fantasy (what that would have meant to the old-school audience in 1997). And they're about to get fucked by capitalism and swept away forever.
I think you're totally right in the end. VII's world was not thought about as cohesively as later games. But at that point in time it wasn't even particularly necessarily, because just showing "the end (or evolution) of the traditional jRPG world" was enough of a unique setting. And that's what I think VII is, when you play it in context after really digesting I-VI. It's the apocalypse of the old Final Fantasy.
VIII seems to me to be the first one where they said "we've let the traditional jRPG setting evolve and put it to bed... Now we actually have to come up with a totally original fantasy world". And that's what the FF series has become since. More of an anthology of original from-the-ground-up worlds rather than a mere slow evolution of the world-style started in FF1.
I feel you're posting from the privilege of hindsight.I just feel it's a bit lazy in all honesty, and that's not a knock on fantasy settings. I love the look and feel and basically everything about IX. And I know the pressures SE must've been under so it's understandable, but I think it's one of the elements of FFVII that really doesn't hold up, and it's something FFVIIR is going to have to grapple with.
I feel you're posting from the privilege of hindsight.
There was nothing lazy about VII's setting in its day. It was an insane leap to add modern technology and industry to a JRPG at all. That it still contained classic FF villages around the periphery speaks to its position as the mid-point between old and new. It wasn't time to ditch those traditional settings yet, as it was their farewell moment. The game particularly resonated with people back then, specifically in the way that it looked like a traditional jRPG, now ravaged by technology. It produced a vision of the uncanny.
I might blame familiarity with VII and the blase nature of the VII spin offs for giving the impression that Midgar and Kalm (etc) are supposed to be like one cohesive society. It's more like one new society is eating the other old society.
Regardless, if you don't read VII's setting as a denouement to the worlds of FFI-VI (as newcomer audiences to the remake likely won't), there is still richness in the modernism vs. tradition dichotomy. It's easily reworkable into a mature storyline.
I think you're giving the game too much thematic credit. I don't mean to imply that just getting a 3D game working at all wasn't a colossal undertaking. But I don't think there's a serious concern for describing what a world that runs on mass quantities of electricity actually looks like. I get that you need some pastoral communities to contrast it, but for example Kalm is way too bright and cheery for a mining town directly next to the wastes surrounding Midgar.
I mean, everyone comes into every game with their own set of expectations, so if FFVII did it for you, that's fine. But to me it feels so incredibly half-baked.
It seems near as the world map is so condensed, but considering this is the whole planet it's really not right next to it.
Also what exactly do M-Stones do? I've been getting a lot of them but when I went to the Junk Shop it didn't seem like I could do anything with.
What's the importance of cards btw? Can I convert them into spells to junction?
If you think I'm giving it too much thematic credit, I'd ask you to reflect on the fact that:I think you're giving the game too much thematic credit. I don't mean to imply that just getting a 3D game working at all wasn't a colossal undertaking. But I don't think there's a serious concern for describing what a world that runs on mass quantities of electricity actually looks like. I get that you need some pastoral communities to contrast it, but for example Kalm is way too bright and cheery for a mining town directly next to the wastes surrounding Midgar.
I mean, everyone comes into every game with their own set of expectations, so if FFVII did it for you, that's fine. But to me it feels so incredibly half-baked.
If you think I'm giving it too much thematic credit, I'd ask you to reflect on the fact that:
Midgar is a city literally built on top of traditional villages which people are starting to forget the name of.
Junon is the second example, a military installation again literally built on top of another traditional village.
There's nothing to "read into" it. It's stated right there in the text as a core theme. FFVII is a story about modernism displacing tradition, both in terms of in game storyline and what it meant to the genre in real life. It's the core reason why Avalanche fights in the first place.
I think we might agree about issues of "realism". It's just that I see VII more as being the last of a slow evolution from FF1, so I judge it like that.
Fair enough. And believe me, I can put on your hat and get what you're saying. There's a kind of Fallout 3 "why are these two things even next to each other? How would this really work?" element.Those are interesting ideas, but they're not particularly well presented by the game world. I understand the environmentalist message of the game, I just think they could've built a more engaging world around it.
It's easily the greatest love story in a video game.
Also the most fashionista FF to date. All point that XV come to take the throne.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that Squall was apathetic; he wasn't really, that was all just a ruse he put up to not allow himself to become emotionally vulnerable/damaged. If you were paying attention to his thought bubbles, you should know he wasn't truly apathetic.
It's killing me that you've played so far into so many entries and aren't finishing them. The final dungeon's in each game in terms of design and substance are true tests that culminate the entire experience of the game into that final stand. It's totally worth it and you're nearly there on some of them.
In regards to the topic, I think you made some strong points about the game and I agree that while the characters can seem bland, it goes with the down to earth and mature theme of the game, save for some irrational moments you mention. The soundtrack follows suit as well, setting the tone very well. The fact that you can be so OP early on detracts slightly from the experience. It's hard not take advantage of it when you understand how it can work to your benefit.
Also what exactly do M-Stones do? I've been getting a lot of them but when I went to the Junk Shop it didn't seem like I could do anything with.
What's the importance of cards btw? Can I convert them into spells to junction?
The Cards are almighty. You can turn monsters into cards via a certain GF skill, which gives you AP but no XP, which is generally ideal for most of the game. You can also turn the cards into various materials and items via card refinement and then further refine those items into spells you have no business seeing in a loooong while if you played it in the traditional way. 3rd tier elemental spells, Life, Curaga, Meltdown, Pain, Quake, Tornado...
Basically you can have almost end-game tier weapons and spells before you leave for Timber and you can score Squalls ultimate weapon before the end of disc 1.
tldr: Card refinement = Win.
Man, I know she's mesmerizing the crowd and all, but Edea's speech is so fucking dumb. IMO, it'd work much better if Deling introduced her, outlining how "With the power of the Sorceress behind us we will finally crush the vile Estharians!" only for her to take the stage and be something like: "My poor sheep, you who years passed begged for our blood, who then turned your swords against each other, I have returned for you. I forgive you for casting aside your yoke, for following your cruel petty tyrants; I will restore the proper order of things..."
I mean, I know Ultamecia is supposed to be the ultimate Megalomaniac, but I think they would've been better to couch it in terms you could see someone actually rationalizing. Unless her point is to prove Squall's previous point about there being no good and evil wrong; and even if that were the case it's still just kind of dumb.
Alright, I'll make sure to priortize card refinement then,
BTW is there one or two enemies with spells/cards I should look out for? I remember going out of my way to get Mighty Guard, which paid great dividends.
Alright, I'll make sure to priortize card refinement then,
BTW is there one or two enemies with spells/cards I should look out for? I remember going out of my way to get Mighty Guard, which paid great dividends.
The world and its political setting is the thing I enjoyed the most about FF VIII. It's why, despite not being a big fan of the entire game (it's a wonderful game, just personally and subjectively it began to lose me), adore the first 10-20 hours or so.This may be a bit pedantic, but one of the weakest elements (to me) of FFVII was its worldbuilding. Midgar, off course, is this fantastically realized Dieselpunk setting, but ass soon as you leave it the first village you encounter is Kalm, a quaint pastoral mining town. And this is true for most of the world map; once you leave Midgar or Junon (and perhaps Costa del Sol), all the villages you run into are small and pre-industrial. There's really no need for such massive exploitation of Mako because so much of the world are small farming or mining towns that wouldn't have been out of place in an earlier Final Fantasy.
[...]
Now, I'm not going to claim that FFVIII has the most grounded setting, but there's a certain relatability, to both its geopolitics and society, that makes it the most 'realistic' of FFs (up until XV at least). There's something familiar about a military dictatorship (which ostensibly styles itself as a Republic) oppressing its neighbors while locked in a cold war with an foriegn power it treats as an existential threat. Child soldiers are still a somewhat silly concept (more on that in Characters), and the ultimate reason for why SeeD exists is dumb, but the factions as first appear make sense within the world the game has crafted. There's a much greater sense of cohesion here.