DiipuSurotu
Banned
Prepare for the most epic final boss battle in the history of the series!
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LTTP FFVIII: The Aesthetic Fore-bearer to FFXV
- Thread starter ScherzoPrime
- Start date
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Prepare for the most epic final boss battle in the history of the series!
ScherzoPrime
Member
So faced her twice, which ended utterly heartbreaking in her final form. Uh, any suggestions on what I need to be prepped going into this? I don't think there's any way I can survive more than one apocalypse attack (thanks to Rebirth Flame, which made my eventual death even more excruciating as it let me deal out 3 or 4 more perfect Renzoukens before I eventually bought it. UGH IT WOULDA BEEN SO HELLA ANIME; SQUALL WITH 1 HP SLAYING THE EVIL SORCERESS WITH HIS ULTIMATE ATTACK)
BreezyLimbo
Banned
So first things first-
Kill off your characters that aren't levelled up so it'll rotate to your other characters faster
If you didn't stock up on Aura from the Seifer fight last disc, you're going to have to face Apocalypse. Have your mage character use Triple and cast Protect/Shell on everyone(And subsequently Curaga if you don't have items that cure everyone at once). If you have some Aura, use it on Squall(Or your strongest character who can deal the most damage with their finisher).
If she draws Apocalypse, you can possibly avoid the damage by summoning a GF to tank the damage(Before she can 'null' it by instantly killing it).
Also keep an eye out for when you can target her lower abdomen-You can draw-cast apocalypse(If one of your characters magic stat is high enough) against her.
ScherzoPrime
Member
What does Aura do exactly? Make you impervious to magic attacks?
I could spam Cerberus for Triple. The only issue is I'm running low on item recovery items so it's hard to heal when I have reflect out, which is making me question whether I should use Carbuncle at all.
Ultimecia's Third Form actually doesn't seem particularly bad, Ultima only does like 800 damage. It's the Pulsar Shockwave and Apocalypse that fucks me over.
I also don't know of an efficient way to get my useless party members killed.
I've been doing that more often; it's actually how I usually get by Anima when I replay FFX. But in FFVIII there's an overflow, and it sucks that you can't heal them mid battle.
Also Eden's summon animation is way. too. fucking. long.
At anyrate, gonna try again tomorrow cause I'm a bit beat tonight. FWIW, Squall is Lvl 27 and my other two party members, currently Rinoa and Zell, are about 17-18. I'm wondering if I should switch out Rinoa though, Angel Wing just isn't a particularly good limit break. I have I'd say a lil' over half of the GFs I could possibly have? Plus Gilgamesh and Pheonix.
Aura makes your limit break proc at any HP value
And I think you could have drawn GFs from the bosses in the castle, but it's late for that.
I think that Ultimecia is at a maximum level 65, so I mean you could grind up for the HP.
Do you have AP Ammo for Irvine? That's also a really good limit for just killing. You should be able to refine from like call shop and other GF abilities
Easy mode party is Squall, Irvine, and Zell due to their limits
And I think you could have drawn GFs from the bosses in the castle, but it's late for that.
I think that Ultimecia is at a maximum level 65, so I mean you could grind up for the HP.
Do you have AP Ammo for Irvine? That's also a really good limit for just killing. You should be able to refine from like call shop and other GF abilities
Easy mode party is Squall, Irvine, and Zell due to their limits
BreezyLimbo
Banned
You can target your own party members(Might have to enable it through the settings to self target?)
Aura lets you be able to use your limit break at any health(Sometimes you have to press the 'O' button(Or whichever button you have assigned to switch party members, if say, Squall is the only one with a command available, you can spam it to get a limit break).
Spamming Cerberus might work, but you'd have to coordinate multiple GF summons at once, to reduce the chance that she instakills Cerberus.
ScherzoPrime
Member
I sorta get the feeling that her final form is supposed to be a more challenging version of Yu Yevon or the final Cloud v. Sepiroth 'duel' in FFVII; as long as I find a way to deal with apocalypse it should be kind of a instant-win thing.
Should I switch Rinoa out for, say, Quistis? Which of her Blue Mage stuff would be the most effective? I kinda thought it'd be apropos for the final battle, but her limit break doesn't contribute much.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I forget how Rinoas final limit break works, I forget which stat it scales off of....
...Quistis it depends which ones you learned. Lemme find a list..so Mighty Wind or Might Guard will be helpful if you have those on her. For Mighty Guard, Barrier ( Behemoth can drop these/you can mug them from it, or you can refine behemoth cards), White Wind is learned from Whisper which Adamatoise drop(You probably haven't run into those, they only spawn in 2 specific places IIRC).
If you have Micro Missiles, it's one of her more stronger ones since it does HP % damage.
...Quistis it depends which ones you learned. Lemme find a list..so Mighty Wind or Might Guard will be helpful if you have those on her. For Mighty Guard, Barrier ( Behemoth can drop these/you can mug them from it, or you can refine behemoth cards), White Wind is learned from Whisper which Adamatoise drop(You probably haven't run into those, they only spawn in 2 specific places IIRC).
If you have Micro Missiles, it's one of her more stronger ones since it does HP % damage.
Don_Tombery
Member
Do you have 1-2 hero drinks left or Lagunas Card (can be refined to 100 hero drinks, if I remember correct)?
If so: low HP + aura (if available) + hero drink on Squall and/or Irvine and spam Limits.
This should be the easiest, but maybe also less satisfying way.
If so: low HP + aura (if available) + hero drink on Squall and/or Irvine and spam Limits.
This should be the easiest, but maybe also less satisfying way.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Any specific time I should be casting Aura in the battle?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Constantly have it on Squall, since his limit break gains special animations after the first phase of the fight, and he has the highest potential.
Also set his limit break to manual/R1 to "pull the trigger", iirc if you land all crits you get a higher chance for him to bust out a super at the end.
dickroach
Member
keep Squall aura'd the entire time and keep Renzokukoing. that's how you beat everything in this game. meltdown-ing the boss doesn't hurt either
Also, you can get the limit breaks to proc by "skipping" a characters turn. Like if it's Squalls turn and he has aura or low hp but still doesn't get renzokuken, press the button which let you use your other characters first (think it was O maybe, not sure) until it procs. Maybe someone can explain this better if it's unlcear. Good luck though! You're almost there!
ScherzoPrime
Member
Oh yeah, I totally do the R1 slash thing. My Renzoukens were doing like 6k per slash on her final form.
What's her HP total in her final form? 150k or so?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Scales with level, so I wouldnt really be able to tell you how much she has.
There is a point though, where even if you take her down to 1 hp, she has dialogue she has to say before she goes down.
ScherzoPrime
Member
So I don't have any Auras. Any other suggestions? I also don't seem to have Card Refine either...
Also eh not gonna bother with KO'ing my party members, because going to the save point to switch automatically resurrects them.
Also eh not gonna bother with KO'ing my party members, because going to the save point to switch automatically resurrects them.
elkniwcire
Member
This. 100%.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Hrm
I would suggest keeping squall low hp, if you have an auto revive ability one of your gf for when he goes down, or putting revives/phoenix downs on your party..and if you have a gf with the Defend command, have ones of your characters keep spamming that command so single target attacks are blocked, and have your other character be ready to revive squall(keep the 3rd character not defending to have his ATB full at all times). Then by pressing the switch button/O, always go to Squall so he can limit break.
Idk if you have a GF with the autohaste command(forgot which gf it was...there is an item that lets them learn it).
Quetzacotl learns card refine, you have to have him learn thr command "Card" first though.
Siren learns "Item refine"(basic loop is Card>Card Refine>Item refine into spells or other things). But since its probably too late in the game to grind out that AP, the strat I posted above should do...(one of the early GFs learns Defend..).
Its a crude strategy, but thats what I would do before I got Aura throughout the game-keep Squall in high Crisis level, and have the 2 other members simply revive/protect him.
ScherzoPrime
Member
I'm gonna go for Shell/Protect/Haste/Triple combo tonight. If that doesn't work I'll go ground out GF abilities.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah. Try keeping Squall low and one character in 'ready to use item' mode, since it sounds like your Squall(Being the highest level) has the highest damage output. If he's hasted, you can usually bust out multiple Renzokukens before Ultimecia can react.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Sooooo that was heartbreaking, spent half an hour fussing around with Item/Spell management but forgot to save. Whelp that's it for today then.
Here's what I've learned so far though:
-Don't use GFs in Round 1; Maelstrom will wipe them easily.
-PROBABLY don't do Triple stuff until I get my actual crew out there, just Curaga and Shell as need be (the problem with Shell though is it reduces the effectiveness of Curaga, but it's still like 1.4k HP so it's still worth it I think)
-Definitely get GFs out for Griever Fight, especially when sky has turned red.
-Third Form, assuming I'm above 2-2.5k for my guys, is kind of a pushover.
-Still unsure about how to deal with Final Form; dunno how many GFs I'll have at that point, also hard to tell when she's prepping her Apocalypse spell. If I can figure out how to deal with Apocalypse I should be able to wipe her.
Will mess around with it again tomorrow, but feel free to give feedback now. Squall's damage is beastly because I've junctioned 85 Ultimas to his Strength; he's really the only actual damage dealer while the other guys are mostly GF trucks.
Here's what I've learned so far though:
-Don't use GFs in Round 1; Maelstrom will wipe them easily.
-PROBABLY don't do Triple stuff until I get my actual crew out there, just Curaga and Shell as need be (the problem with Shell though is it reduces the effectiveness of Curaga, but it's still like 1.4k HP so it's still worth it I think)
-Definitely get GFs out for Griever Fight, especially when sky has turned red.
-Third Form, assuming I'm above 2-2.5k for my guys, is kind of a pushover.
-Still unsure about how to deal with Final Form; dunno how many GFs I'll have at that point, also hard to tell when she's prepping her Apocalypse spell. If I can figure out how to deal with Apocalypse I should be able to wipe her.
Will mess around with it again tomorrow, but feel free to give feedback now. Squall's damage is beastly because I've junctioned 85 Ultimas to his Strength; he's really the only actual damage dealer while the other guys are mostly GF trucks.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Sound strategy for the most part.
For the final form, I'd say keep Squall at 1 HP after Hells Judgement, haste him, and then with your other 2 characters, let them be item/magic mules, as in they focus on supporting squall. (Obviously healing themselves). Casting Meltdown isn't a bad strat on Ultimecia(All her forms can be effected by it, lowers her defense radically, allows Squalls limit break to do tremendous damage).
Also Great Attractor is still a ridiculous ability
ScherzoPrime
Member
Can I draw Meltdown from her? I didn't get a chance to earlier. I definitely will try to do get Apocalypse.
Also is there a 'tell' for when she's about to draw Apocalypse? There isn't enough time between her Drawing it and Casting it to do anything.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I believe she does have Meltdown in her last form? Her spells change throughout the final fight though, IIRC...
Meltdown might be able to be drawn from the final form, I don't remember though.
As for when she'll draw Apocalypse, if you have the enemy window open(I forgot what button it was, but when you choose attack for example, it should list the enemies you can attack. After you do a set amount of damage to Ultimecia, and you choose attack, you'll see that there's 2 Ultimecias listed(I think it's between 75%-50% of her health that the 2nd ultimecia pops up).
That's when she'll start drawing Apocalypse from herself. I believe if you attack the 2nd Ultimecia, her lower abdomen, it'll prevent her from drawing/using it.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Hm, I'm considering, if I get around to playing it tomorrow, just closing the app if Ultimecia draws anyone beside my crew and restarting it. I was lucky my first time that I got everyone I wanted, but I dunno if that'll happen again, also don't know if my strategy will work well if I have to deal with dead weight at the beginning or not.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Eh, like I mentioned you should be able to kill your own members to speed up the process(Usually through Magic/Attack commands). Restarting the game each time is one way to do it, just timely
Oooh right, I think Maelstrom in her first form actually prevents your party members from using limit break....might need some esunas handy if you use the limit break strat.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Hm, what if I did something crazy, like used Carbuncle but then used Reflect on Ultimecia to Buff/Heal my party? Would she know to attack herself in order to attack the party?
The benefit of Reflect in stage one is it keeps her from using Meltdown.
I'm also thinking of the first Triple Spell I should cast is Triple itself; I've tried to divide the Curaga/Shells/Triples throughout the party.
The benefit of Reflect in stage one is it keeps her from using Meltdown.
I'm also thinking of the first Triple Spell I should cast is Triple itself; I've tried to divide the Curaga/Shells/Triples throughout the party.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Okay, gonna make another go at it again. Turns out I did have an item to refine into 10 Meltdowns, so that'll come in handy. I also have two heros, and I'm thinking I should save them for the final form.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Thats a good idea. Hero Squall, let him renzokuken all day. Apply meltdown, should be a cakewalk
Wow... I've beat Ultimecia more than a dozen times and I'm 99% sure I've never seen Great Attractor.
ScherzoPrime
Member
ALRIGHT! She went down; significantly easier than I thought she would. Griever actually had be on the ropes the most; but I sorta breezed through UltiGriever and No Face. Somehow I beat her without even her using Apocalypse this time, just spamming Hell's Judgement to no avail as I spammed my Limit Breaks in kind. Compared to the time I fell to her final form it was pretty anticlimactic, she bought it with a measly 240 damage whip from Quistis. It also had Squall making the Romantic gesture of cutting down Rinoa so I could get a party member with junctioned skills. Enjoy Oblivion my love!
Meltdown probably did help, but I couldn't really tell if I was breezing through the forms faster because I was micromanaging health/Shells much more this time. It's pretty irritating how Ultimecia would often go "Whoops, your spells are gone! Oh, there goes your GF!"
Gonna grab a drink, and then I'll see the finale. Second FF I beat by myself. I think she might be a bit harder than Sephiroth, Ultimecia, but OTOH I think I was probably more properly level in FFVII; in FFVIII I'd been cheesing it because I'd junctioned 85 ultimas to Squall.
Meltdown probably did help, but I couldn't really tell if I was breezing through the forms faster because I was micromanaging health/Shells much more this time. It's pretty irritating how Ultimecia would often go "Whoops, your spells are gone! Oh, there goes your GF!"
Gonna grab a drink, and then I'll see the finale. Second FF I beat by myself. I think she might be a bit harder than Sephiroth, Ultimecia, but OTOH I think I was probably more properly level in FFVII; in FFVIII I'd been cheesing it because I'd junctioned 85 ultimas to Squall.
ScherzoPrime
Member
So, finished the ending/Epilogue. I kinda don't get why Squall was delivered to a desolate wasteland, or the 'is he dead or isn't he' fakeout they hold back until the last scene. Going off the memory flashes he has while wanderng aimlessly, it seems to be a sort of 'emotional' final boss, of him not quite overcoming his anxiety yet and being tormented by the thought of having these memories and being forever alone, but I dunno if it's completely clear.
Also I really liked the Handicam footage Selphie shoots at the SeeD victory party; feels honestly pretty authentic for the time (And tying back into the theme of the OP, something they seem to be trying to capture with Prompto doing photography). I actually snorted when it revealed that Selphie had stole Irvine's hat.
Also I really liked the Handicam footage Selphie shoots at the SeeD victory party; feels honestly pretty authentic for the time (And tying back into the theme of the OP, something they seem to be trying to capture with Prompto doing photography). I actually snorted when it revealed that Selphie had stole Irvine's hat.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah, the handheld camera part is great. It's one of my favorite endings for sure. The trippy Squall is walking part is great as well.
ScherzoPrime
Member
CONCLUSION
Well, it was certainly a ride, I'll give it that. Especially as someone who never played the game when it first came out, it's a bit complicated to review. It's not a bad game or even a 'just okay' game, but it is definitely an uneven game. The parts it excels at are often countered with stuff that, while not 'bad', are not fully formed or cohesive.
I guess I'll start with an element I've generally overlooked: its gameplay. It's definitely an example of the old JRPG trope of systems ontop of systems within yet more systems. I can't sit here and knock it for lacking depth and I'm sure its flexibility is what makes it so endearing to a lot of people. But me coming into it 20 years later, it's just a lot to wrap my mind around, in terms of managing Spells/GF/Refining item etc. And again it's slightly unfair since it's a game of a different era, where modern standards of accessibility (for better or worse) hadn't been codified yet. But I feel even of its time, Materia Junctioning of FFVII is a much more elegant system. There's just a bit... too much for me, if I'm to be a bit reductionist.
And I think a 'bit too much' is a good summation of a lot of FFVIII's issues; a lot of my problems stem from there being all these ideas that are potentially interesting in their own right but aren't paced or contextualized properly by the game. When it works, it really works, like in Disc 2, where the party begins to grow together, bound by a common enemy with emotional stakes involved. But it's book-ended by an inconsistent, haltingly paced first act and a 'frantic to the point of incoherence' third act. The former can be at least somewhat excused by being a representation of Squall's detached mercenary lifestyle (a bit of a flimsy explanation but it's something), but the latter is just not that great.
There's an abundance of ambition in the game, both story and gameplaywise, and I feel it ends up trying to tell more story than it can actually manage. Like the Laguna/Raine/Ellone stuff is interesting conceptually, and I can see the thematic and narrative link to the main cast, but I don't think it ever really narratively justifies their inclusion, except from a purely mechanical 'This is Adel, this is how time travel works' perspective. And probably most egregiously we end up in the last act with a primary antagonist I don't really give a shit about. There's a lot about FFVIII that's just a mess.
...And yet, that ambition is appealing; like the spectacle of the Battle of the Gardens. And I grew to care about the characters, even if only Squall and Rinoa have defined arcs. It's the moments really that sold me on the game, as well as the general arc of Squall's transformation from anxious ridden introvert to someone who can believe in himself and his friends. I'm not gonna say Squall x Rinoa is somehow one of the greatest romances of all time (Rinoa is still a little too thin character-wise for my tastes), but they do develop a natural rapport as the game goes along; in fact most of the cast does. And so at the end of the day I'm glad I stuck through and experienced it, and frankly I wouldn't mind to see more done with the characters. I doubt that'll ever happen, but who knows? After all, as FFVIII demonstrates, Fate works in mysterious ways.
Until then, Seeya Space Cowgirl
P.S., it's weird that Seifer is shown being chill in the epilogue, when you know we never actually saw him be reformed. I know you can say Ultimecia's death released the spell she had on him, but it'd been better to actually have seen him be redeemed.
FFVIII has one of my favourite video game endings. Something about it is so bittersweet. The Laguna/Raine flashback, seeing Ellone. Squall's smile. And that music! Sweet Jesus. The music that plays from the start of the handheld camera footage to the end is top tier Final Fantasy music. Uematsu at his absolute best!
I've not posted in this thread but I've been reading it on and off when I've seen it updated. I'm glad you enjoyed the journey OP.
I first played this game at a young age so many of the story contrivances that bug so many people never registered with me. It remains my favourite FF to this day for the characterization of Squall. Even if he is a a bit emo, I think he is the best developed FF protagonist, by far.
Other high points to me:
- the music is the best in the series
- fantastic world and lore, modern world with magical elements is done so well and feels so natural in this game
- Laguna's subplot (particularly the stuff with him and Raine and their relation to Squall that the game doesn't feel the need to beat you over the head with)
- everything combines to create a very unique atmosphere, the dungeons feel isolated and creepy, Fisherman's Horizon is so chill, Esthar so weird
The game does have some problems obviously, but it doesn't stop me from loving it:
- supporting characters are underdeveloped (particularly Selphie and Irvine, maybe Quistis after disk 1 too)
- game breaking is too easy (I personally don't mind since I'm not playing FF for a challenge)
- Astronaut mini-game is boring
Was never a big fan of Triple Triad though (don't hate), Random rule ruins it.
I've not posted in this thread but I've been reading it on and off when I've seen it updated. I'm glad you enjoyed the journey OP.
I first played this game at a young age so many of the story contrivances that bug so many people never registered with me. It remains my favourite FF to this day for the characterization of Squall. Even if he is a a bit emo, I think he is the best developed FF protagonist, by far.
Other high points to me:
- the music is the best in the series
- fantastic world and lore, modern world with magical elements is done so well and feels so natural in this game
- Laguna's subplot (particularly the stuff with him and Raine and their relation to Squall that the game doesn't feel the need to beat you over the head with)
- everything combines to create a very unique atmosphere, the dungeons feel isolated and creepy, Fisherman's Horizon is so chill, Esthar so weird
The game does have some problems obviously, but it doesn't stop me from loving it:
- supporting characters are underdeveloped (particularly Selphie and Irvine, maybe Quistis after disk 1 too)
- game breaking is too easy (I personally don't mind since I'm not playing FF for a challenge)
- Astronaut mini-game is boring
Was never a big fan of Triple Triad though (don't hate), Random rule ruins it.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Like many Square games of that era it's assumed that the developers ran out of time to properly finish some of the story arcs.
I thought Seifer had a decently developed ending. After your final fight with him, don't his friends come talk some sense in him and take him away. Then we last see him just relaxing with his friends instead of off on some mis-guided quest. Sure we never saw him 'redeemed', he never apologized or had a nice moment with any of the other characters, but I feel like that wouldn't really be in keeping with his character. Seifer is still an arrogant, jerk, but now he realizes he relies on the support of his friends (kinda like Squall).
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I read "chill Seifer" as being a subversion of what we had come to expect from jRPGs at the time. The obvious thing to do would be to have Seifer be a kind of Pokey character, who shadows the party from early game, eventually snatches a Faustian dark power and ends up as one of the final antagonists of the game.
It was actually refreshing to see that he had kinda slipped away from the conflict and gone home. It's not like he was going to be friends with a Squall and crew but.... he was no longer an enemy. I felt it was kind of a realistic slice of life to end on, rather than the typical shounen "more power!!" villain archetype.
Not to say that there wasn't some character development cut but... I don't think there necessarily was. They were actually doing something interesting by having him bow out of the story with dignity. You didn't miss anything, it was just a very different kind of finale for an FF villain.
It was actually refreshing to see that he had kinda slipped away from the conflict and gone home. It's not like he was going to be friends with a Squall and crew but.... he was no longer an enemy. I felt it was kind of a realistic slice of life to end on, rather than the typical shounen "more power!!" villain archetype.
Not to say that there wasn't some character development cut but... I don't think there necessarily was. They were actually doing something interesting by having him bow out of the story with dignity. You didn't miss anything, it was just a very different kind of finale for an FF villain.
Or, alternatively: A 'redemption equals death' sort of character where he realizes the error of his ways and sacrifices himself, or does some other hackneyed heroic act.
That said, the interesting ideas done with him are undermined by poor execution. He never made sense as a character, mind control or not, and contributed little to anything involving the plot or themes.
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