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[Zekes!]

I always forget that I actually really enjoyed FFVIII

 

[BocoDragon]

Hats off to this thread btw. You've somehow cultivated a million interesting discussions about this game.

 

[BONKERS]

I've wanted a remake of this game for what feels like for forever.

But after Square Enix's choice to completely change FFVII into an entirely new game that we have to buy in parts.

I'm not sure I even want one anymore. I'd be happy if they could just re-release it with entirely new pre-rendered backgrounds in high res and updated character models/world geometry with better textures.(With perspective correction/Z-buffering so no polygon wobble). But that will never happen either.

 

[Jennipeg]

So because of the Succession of Witches, Rinoa must survive to pass on her powers so Ultimecia could eventually exist. Then shouldn't Ultimecia know from the beginning that her plan would fail? Because... somehow the only time travel that works is if it was always meant to, which means that Ulimecia lives in a time where her whole Time Compression scheme has been tried and failed untold years in the past. And isn't it a tad depressing that the final legacy of the Sorceresses is a tyrannical narcissist?

God this whole thing is a fucking Grandfather Paradox. Why couldn't they have just gone with Many Worlds?

Any thoughts on my other reply btw, or are you waiting until I beat the game?

EDIT: And also, you know, who's to say Rinoa is a predecessor to Ultimecia? There isn't a single line (Edea got her powers from another Sorceress, she only later absorbed Ultimecia's power), so there could be other Sorceresses in the woodwork.

Seriously it will make your head hurt lol, I was debating this last week in all the spoiler tags, and you can fall down a rabbit hole with it.

Its a self fulfilling prophecy, her goal is to get rid of SeeD, who have persecuted her across generations (her own fault, if your going to possess people in other time periods, people will be upset). Thematically she is the polar opposite of Squall, she is someone who has given in to her desire for solitude and that plays into the theme of loss and the inability to deal with it.

Its interesting with Ultimecia's knowledge of time compression, to her it happened hundreds of years ago, maybe even longer. Can she know it was her that tried it before? Maybe to her its a good idea that failed and she thinks she can do better.

With Rinoa's powers, I can't elaborate, there is a scene in the ending that refers to this. So we can discuss it when you complete it, it also presents the 'beginning' of the time loop.

Re: The previous post, I think your comparison to Bioshock is apt. Its an issue a lot of people have, Ultimecia is an entity at this point (you should check out the spoiler tag discussions after you finish it, we got into some interesting Ultimecia stuff). And its difficult to get to grips with her as a character throughout the events in disk 3. She's actually put to one side for a while because the main narrative is driving the development of Squall and Rinoa. That's what the whole story is about and has been building towards, Ultimecia is almost a living metaphor for all the negative emotions and motivations within Squall. So in that sense it works, its the actual plot delivery that buckles under its own weight.

But the themes and the story it is trying to tell remain fascinating to me, its the execution that holds it back. Odin's plan is fantastic in its level of nonsense, but I still have this weird admiration for it. So yeah, its always a weird discussion for me, I can happily admit its narrative flaws, but it still works for me on an emotional level, so when it gets a bit silly i'm ok with it. It doesn't excuse it, but my enthusiasm for what it was trying to do made it enjoyable from beginning to end. When i'm trying to be critical its hard to divorce myself from what it meant to me when I first played it. When I first read that people didn't like it I was genuinely shocked, I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread!

I can actually compare it a bit to my first play through of IX, where I was so into VIII and happy to go along with anything. I didn't have that connection to IX and the plot twist of Terra did not work for me at all. I actually did not like it and it soured me on the game for a while. Because I had been exploring this medieval/steam powered world, then suddenly I was in space and had a futuristic spaceship, I found it so jarring. I found nothing in VIII as jarring as that even with its flaws. Its only on subsequent play throughs and knowing where the plot is going that I grew to appreciate IX. Its difficult to put your finger on why some things are acceptable and some not. Maybe i'm like the people who enjoy Batman V Superman even thought they know its terrible? (on a much smaller scale)

I'm rambling now, its early thats my excuse lol.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Yup. Like you mentioned, 'Folding space time like an accordion around herself', is one way to put it. Looking at it logically, it'd be impossible because it would be almost like opening up an alternate reality to look upon your current reality-But in Magic/Space/Time logic, it's distorting reality to exist all at once and for Ultimecia to be the sort of Maestro of it, being able to control this distorted time however she wants.

Like you said, she can't change the future because her past is locked into place, unless she achieves time compression, in which case the past and future will both be open to her. She is trying to escape her fate of passing on her powers. And the only way she can do it, is by setting up a chain of events that eventually leads her to being able to control all of time, but at once.



By achieving Time Compression, in a way yeah she would recreate the universe, albeit with everything under her control. Since the past, present, and future are all 'together', she can pick and choose what events would transpire in this timeline, whilst having complete control over the past, present, and future.

Oh my god she's Pucci.

So she fuses her powers with Ellone's which allows her to propagate her magic through time and space. I can sorta get that. But then how does she initiate time compression if she never actually junctions to Ellone? Unless she was piggybacking on Ellone sending her to the past somehow, but then why would 'the present' be the epicenter of time compression?

Also you were right about Adel being possessed by Ultimecia, but there are two points that arise from it, one ironic and one frustrating. By junctioning Ultimecia to a young Adel, that makes Ellone responsible for the Sorceress War and her own (as well as most of the Party's) Orphanhood. But the frustrating thing is, if Ultimecia was in control of Adel in the past (I keep hearing "Rolling in the deep" whenever I say her name), why didn't she junction with Elone then? Because she needed to do the research on Ellone in order to develop the Time Compression magic in Ultimecia's present? Good god the contortions to preserve causality are insan.

I'm honestly still confused where Ultimecia is projecting herself during Disc 3 so as to get Seifer and Galbadia to do her bidding. I know she was inside Rinoa on the Lagrange station, so did she shift to Adel then (combining I guess with her other consciousness from the past?)? Is it implied Ultimecia as Rinoa told Seifer what to do and like the rest of Galbadia was just "Okay sure dude whatever you say". What the hell does General Caraway think of all this?

I almost get the feeling that the universe just spat out Ellone because the time hijinks apparently requires her to exist. The whole damn thing reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkMaxdhzzMw

Seriously it will make your head hurt lol, I was debating this last week in all the spoiler tags, and you can fall down a rabbit hole with it.

Its a self fulfilling prophecy, her goal is to get rid of SeeD, who have persecuted her across generations (her own fault, if your going to possess people in other time periods, people will be upset). Thematically she is the polar opposite of Squall, she is someone who has given in to her desire for solitude and that plays into the theme of loss and the inability to deal with it.

Its interesting with Ultimecia's knowledge of time compression, to her it happened hundreds of years ago, maybe even longer. Can she know it was her that tried it before? Maybe to her its a good idea that failed and she thinks she can do better.

With Rinoa's powers, I can't elaborate, there is a scene in the ending that refers to this. So we can discuss it when you complete it, it also presents the 'beginning' of the time loop.

Re: The previous post, I think your comparison to Bioshock is apt. Its an issue a lot of people have, Ultimecia is an entity at this point (you should check out the spoiler tag discussions after you finish it, we got into some interesting Ultimecia stuff). And its difficult to get to grips with her as a character throughout the events in disk 3. She's actually put to one side for a while because the main narrative is driving the development of Squall and Rinoa. That's what the whole story is about and has been building towards, Ultimecia is almost a living metaphor for all the negative emotions and motivations within Squall. So in that sense it works, its the actual plot delivery that buckles under its own weight.

But the themes and the story it is trying to tell remain fascinating to me, its the execution that holds it back. Odin's plan is fantastic in its level of nonsense, but I still have this weird admiration for it. So yeah, its always a weird discussion for me, I can happily admit its narrative flaws, but it still works for me on an emotional level, so when it gets a bit silly i'm ok with it. It doesn't excuse it, but my enthusiasm for what it was trying to do made it enjoyable from beginning to end. When i'm trying to be critical its hard to divorce myself from what it meant to me when I first played it. When I first read that people didn't like it I was genuinely shocked, I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread!

I can actually compare it a bit to my first play through of IX, where I was so into VIII and happy to go along with anything. I didn't have that connection to IX and the plot twist of Terra did not work for me at all. I actually did not like it and it soured me on the game for a while. Because I had been exploring this medieval/steam powered world, then suddenly I was in space and had a futuristic spaceship, I found it so jarring. I found nothing in VIII as jarring as that even with its flaws. Its only on subsequent play throughs and knowing where the plot is going that I grew to appreciate IX. Its difficult to put your finger on why some things are acceptable and some not. Maybe i'm like the people who enjoy Batman V Superman even thought they know its terrible? (on a much smaller scale)

I'm rambling now, its early thats my excuse lol.

I mean, the only way I really see Time Compression working is if it 'technically' is not violating causality but rather reducing the timeline to a single mote surrounding herself. Otherwise, since studying Time Magic would lead Ultimecia to recognize that causality must always be preserved, she'd know it was quixotic.

I guess to me I'm coming at it from the perspective of someone first playing it in their 20s, and having already experienced several great Time Travel narratives, probably chief among them Puella Magi Madoka Magica, but Looper is up there as well. Whereas Madoka's is pretty internally consistent, Looper's plays pretty fast and loose with how causality should operate, but it doesn't really matter because the way its contextualize makes it clear it isn't the point. FFVIII's way of doing it is just... frustratingly vague. And I get what drive Ultimecia is fear of her past and being hurt in the future, which represents Squall's more destructive impulses, but just because we can sit here and say that doesn't mean the game does a good job itself surfacing that theme.

I didn't mind the twist of Terra in Gaia at all honestly. FFIX was less 'classic' FF to me and more like VI, where you have some Steampunkish elements that border on Sci Fi. Plus IX I feel gives a lot more attention to its characters development than VIII does, which is again is another big issue I have with the game.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So she fuses her powers with Ellone's which allows her to propagate her magic through time and space. I can sorta get that. But then how does she initiate time compression if she never actually junctions to Ellone? Unless she was piggybacking on Ellone sending her to the past somehow, but then why would 'the present' be the epicenter of time compression?

Also you were right about Adel being possessed by Ultimecia, but there are two points that arise from it, one ironic and one frustrating. By junctioning Ultimecia to a young Adel, that makes Ellone responsible for the Sorceress War and her own (as well as most of the Party's) Orphanhood. But the frustrating thing is, if Ultimecia was in control of Adel in the past (I keep hearing "Rolling in the deep" whenever I say her name), why didn't she junction with Elone then? Because she needed to do the research on Ellone in order to develop the Time Compression magic in Ultimecia's present? Good god the contortions to preserve causality are insan.

I'm honestly still confused where Ultimecia is projecting herself during Disc 3 so as to get Seifer and Galbadia to do her bidding. I know she was inside Rinoa on the Lagrange station, so did she shift to Adel then (combining I guess with her other consciousness from the past?)? Is it implied Ultimecia as Rinoa told Seifer what to do and like the rest of Galbadia was just "Okay sure dude whatever you say". What the hell does General Caraway think of all this?

I almost get the feeling that the universe just spat out Ellone because the time hijinks apparently requires her to exist. The whole damn thing reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkMaxdhzzMw

.

Odine created a machine, under Adels command-He called it the 'Ellone Junction Machine'. It gives Ultimecia some ability to send her consciousness back to previous Sorceresses. But Ellone was able to expel Ultimecia from Adels mind way back when, 'Sending Ultimecias consciousness back to where it belonged.'

As for the present being the epicenter, I imagine it's simple-Adel was a Sorceress in a position for Ultimecia to make her move, but she failed. So she waits a bit longer, and Edea presents herself as a Sorceress, so Ultimecia takes control over her, and eventually influences Rinoa. Whether or not there were Sorceresses before Adel or after Rinoa for her to try to make her move, one thing is sure-She needed Ellones power in order to time compress.

In the future, I believe Ultimecia had *A* version of the Ellone Junction Machine, but it wasn't as powerful as Ellone herself, so she needed to land in a timeline where Ellone existed. She can't possess Ellone herself, but she needs Ellone in order to use her power to let Ultimecia to gain more power.

So basically, Ultimecia transfers her consciousness to Adel in order to 'Possess' Adel(Whether this is a power attained from a previous Sorceress, or through use of the Ellone Junction Machine, is up for air, but I believe it leans towards an innate Sorceress ability gained), they end up capturing Ellone and Odine builds a machine that copies Ellones ability, but it's weaker than Ellone herself, so Ultimecia can only go as far back as Adel when it comes to possessing a Sorceress.

To answer your other question, on how Ultimecia influences Seifer and Galbadia, this happens when Ultimecia controls Edea, again with the same goal but this is where she starts making grander plays in the world, IE taking control of Galbadia. Seifer is witness to this, and serves Edea(Who Ultimecia manipulates into serving him in a way, in the Timber TV station where Seifer goes to serve her).

I believe it was during their time together that Seifer then learns of the plan, the Lunatic Pandora, etc. which allows him to steer the Galbadian forces for Ultimecia(He is the defacto leader since he was Edeas/Ultimecias right hand Knight, so to say.) It's not shown, but it's implied that is what happens.

As for General Caraway, I believe more or less he's disposed of by the time Seifer takes over, since he orchestrated the plot to kill Edea wayback when in Disc 1.

As for how Time Compression happens, Ellone purposely sends Rinoas consciousness(Which Ultimecia is possessing currently) way back into the past(Thus achieving Ultimecias wish of allowing her to gain power to time compress), then ricochets Rinoas mind to the present and Ultimecias back to the futures, and Squall and co use friendship to land in Ultimecias current timeline(Since you'd need to kill Ultimecia in her time in order to stop her).

I brushed up on my FFVIII, and Time Compression is described as 'Condensing space and time into a singularity', but in order to do that the caster has to be incredibly powerful(Which Ultimecia can only succeed by siphoning the power of all sorceresses in the past, thus why she needed to go back farther than the junction machine would allow), and then '[Ultimecia] assimilates all of creation unto herself, allowing her [Sorceress Power] to recreate life as she desires.'

So she's basically the most JoJo of villains out of all the Final Fantasy villains.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

It seemed to me Ultimecia possessed Adel as a child due to Ellone's actions; which is why I asked why Ultimecia didn't attempt Time Compression back then, other than 'causality demands that occurs'.

But the bigger question I had is how did Time Compression even happen. If Ultimecia was put back into Adel, how would that cause Time Compression without Ellone? And another question, what determines who Ultimecia can Junction to? Is it only people who inherited her power?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

There are two PS1 games I still have. One is FF8, and the other is Vagrant Story.

OT, but good lord did I suck at weapon crafting in VS. I remember the final boss taking forever to kill, because my weapons became worn down.

 

[Narroo]

My assumption for as to why Ultimecia needed Ellone, was that by doing some sort of double Ellone Junctioning timetravel, she was somehow able to generate some bizarre effect to allow for time contraction. What that effect is, I don't know, but...perhaps functioning in multiple eras at once allows for some sort of 'pinching' effect that allows her to scrunch up spacetime like a napkin?

 

[Byakuya769]

The GOAT ending.

Spoiler

Yep. That song... That ending...

I wish crying Jordan existed back then.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It seemed to me Ultimecia possessed Adel as a child due to Ellone's actions; which is why I asked why Ultimecia didn't attempt Time Compression back then, other than 'causality demands that occurs'.

But the bigger question I had is how did Time Compression even happen. If Ultimecia was put back into Adel, how would that cause Time Compression without Ellone? And another question, what determines who Ultimecia can Junction to? Is it only people who inherited her power?

Ultimecia did attempt Time Compression the first time she had captured Ellone, but Ultimecias consciousness was ejected from Adel at that time by Ellone, which allowed Adels capture.

As for the second time Ultimecia took control of Adel, where they captured Rinoa, it was at the moment Adel died and transferred her powers to Rinoa(Since a Sorceress can't die until they do so) that Ultimecia in turn possessed Rinoa. Ellone this time, instead of ejecting Ultimecias consciousness back to the future, she sent Rinoas consciousness back the far past(And thus Ultimecias mind).

The reason why this gives Ultimecia the ability to cause Time Compression(And only through sending her mind far back to the original Sorceresses), is because she is able to 'steal' the power of Sorceresses she inhabits. That is, steal is a rudimentary way of saying it, but she can gain the knowledge/powers of previous sorceresses. So she definitely needed Ellone(And for Ellone to willingly send her far back, since the Junction Machine couldn't go that far back).

As for who she can junction, it seems she can only send her consciousness back to other/previous Sorceresses.

My assumption for as to why Ultimecia needed Ellone, was that by doing some sort of double Ellone Junctioning timetravel, she was somehow able to generate some bizarre effect to allow for time contraction. What that effect is, I don't know, but...perhaps functioning in multiple eras at once allows for some sort of 'pinching' effect that allows her to scrunch up spacetime like a napkin?

Right. It's unknown whether by inhabiting the bodies of previous Sorceresses, she was able to "rally" them so to speak so they could cast a massive spell concurrently, within their times, in order to compress time, or whether Ultimecia needed all of each witches power in order to cast the spell herself. I'm leading towards the latter, but facing the witches in battle one by one during the Time Compression also suggests that they might have all needed to cast the spell simultaneously, in their own time.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Ultimecia did attempt Time Compression the first time she had captured Ellone, but Ultimecias consciousness was ejected from Adel at that time by Ellone, which allowed Adels capture.

As for the second time Ultimecia took control of Adel, where they captured Rinoa, it was at the moment Adel died and transferred her powers to Rinoa(Since a Sorceress can't die until they do so) that Ultimecia in turn possessed Rinoa. Ellone this time, instead of ejecting Ultimecias consciousness back to the future, she sent Rinoas consciousness back the far past(And thus Ultimecias mind).

The reason why this gives Ultimecia the ability to cause Time Compression(And only through sending her mind far back to the original Sorceresses), is because she is able to 'steal' the power of Sorceresses she inhabits. That is, steal is a rudimentary way of saying it, but she can gain the knowledge/powers of previous sorceresses. So she definitely needed Ellone(And for Ellone to willingly send her far back, since the Junction Machine couldn't go that far back).

As for who she can junction, it seems she can only send her consciousness back to other/previous Sorceresses.

But doesn't Rinoa say she put Ultimecia's consciousness in a young Adel? I don't think Ultimecia would be able to back further on her own.

Also it's awful nice of FUTURE!SeeD to keep up the paycheck, though I bet inflation's made the gil effectively worthless.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

But doesn't Rinoa say she put Ultimecia's consciousness in a young Adel? I don't think Ultimecia would be able to back further on her own.

Also it's awful nice of FUTURE!SeeD to keep up the paycheck, though I bet inflation's made the gil effectively worthless.

I rewatched that cutscene to make sure(When making my other post), and Rinoa says she saw a young Adel.(Or inside a young adel apparently)

"I...was inside Adel...The young Adel..."

Then Laguna says 'Ultimecia is inside of Adel, exactly what she wanted.'. Basically confirming that Adel was being controlled by Ultimecia? Might just be bad translation.

 

[Meowster]

I really wish they gave us more information on Adel and (especially) Ultimecia. I find them both pretty fascinating.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

So okay, Ellone's powers aren't specifically necessary for Time Compression, she just needs her ability so she can Highlander her way through the Sorceresses across Spacetime?

So maybe Time Compression happens when Ellone sends Ultimecia and Rinoa back because that's the 'event' that starts the causal chain that ultimately leads to the creation of Ultimecia?

Man, thiis whole convo reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJiSZhA5cg

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So okay, Ellone's powers aren't specifically necessary for Time Compression, she just needs her ability so she can Highlander her way through the Sorceresses across Spacetime?

So maybe Time Compression happens when Ellone sends Ultimecia and Rinoa back because that's the 'event' that starts the causal chain that ultimately leads to the creation of Ultimecia?

Man, thiis whole convo reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJiSZhA5cg

Bingo!

Yeah. Highlander. And Terminator too I guess. Highlander makes sense though. But with magic.

 

[Crimson_Justice]

Sorry for not really contributing to the discussion, but I'm replaying this on my PS3 with my girlfriend with the original discs and the game freezes on me during Zell's introduction cutscene. If someone who has a PS3, a copy of the game (physical or digital), and a USB drive wouldn't mind spending a few minutes to help me, please send me a PM.

 

[Verendus]

PS1 Finale Fantasy was best Finale Fantasy. The trilogy was too strong.

 

[BocoDragon]

Sorry for not really contributing to the discussion, but I'm replaying this on my PS3 with my girlfriend with the original discs and the game freezes on me during Zell's introduction cutscene. If someone who has a PS3, a copy of the game (physical or digital), and a USB drive wouldn't mind spending a few minutes to help me, please send me a PM.

You know the game is $3.00 right now on sale on US PSN?

So assuming you're in North America, you could just buy that and load up the same save to get past that part.

 

[Crimson_Justice]

You know the game is $3.00 right now on sale on US PSN?

So assuming you're in North America, you could just buy that and load up the same save to get past that part.

...I did not. I'll do that, then. Thanks a lot!

 

[Jennipeg]

I'm honestly still confused where Ultimecia is projecting herself during Disc 3 so as to get Seifer and Galbadia to do her bidding. I know she was inside Rinoa on the Lagrange station, so did she shift to Adel then (combining I guess with her other consciousness from the past?)? Is it implied Ultimecia as Rinoa told Seifer what to do and like the rest of Galbadia was just "Okay sure dude whatever you say". What the hell does General Caraway think of all this?

Seifer gets his instructions from Rinoa in disk 2 if you remember. Before she collapses she goes to Seifer and cradles his head, then passes out. It's then that she orders Seifer to find the Lunatic Panora for her, as she wants Adel.

Seifer is 2nd in command to Edea who is in charge of the nation, so with Edea gone, and the president is dead, Seifer is the next in line. It's like a military coup. I think the public are unhappy with Seifer in charge and would have eventually tried to dispose of him, but in the mean time Seifer is in charge.

You can visit General Caraway throughout, he has a few things to say. He has been kicked out long before because of the assassination attempt, and is currently sulking about Rinoa in his study.

Now I hope i'm not going to over complicate things, but I don't think Adel was possessed when she was defeated by Laguna, unless i'm forgetting a plot point/scene. Adel is systematically kidnapping girls in Laguna's time because she wants an heir. She finds Ellone and singles her out as a good candidate due to her power. Its not related to time compression at this point.

I guess to me I'm coming at it from the perspective of someone first playing it in their 20s, and having already experienced several great Time Travel narratives, probably chief among them Puella Magi Madoka Magica, but Looper is up there as well. Whereas Madoka's is pretty internally consistent, Looper's plays pretty fast and loose with how causality should operate, but it doesn't really matter because the way its contextualize makes it clear it isn't the point. FFVIII's way of doing it is just... frustratingly vague. And I get what drive Ultimecia is fear of her past and being hurt in the future, which represents Squall's more destructive impulses, but just because we can sit here and say that doesn't mean the game does a good job itself surfacing that theme.

Ah now this is where I have to disagree, I think it and am saying it now because the game presents it to us. In the final battle Ultimecia's dialogue, combined with her previous actions makes that really clear to me.

I don't know if you know the fan theory of Rinoa/Ulti but that is because of what Ultimecia says in the final battle and points to her inability to let go of the past, which relates directly to Squall's own issues. The Rinoa/Ulti theory is an extension of that theme.

 

[qualitydisc]

Dunno if it was posted in this thread yet (or if everyone has seen it) but the design of the Ring of the Lucii in FF15 is apparently a neat reference to one of the occult magazines from FF8

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Dunno if it was posted in this thread yet (or if everyone has seen it) but the design of the Ring of the Lucii in FF15 is apparently a neat reference to one of the occult magazines from FF8

Holy crap that's awesome.

I like to think that FF15 will take place in the same universe as FFVIII, the aesthetic is just dope and matches FF8's IMO.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Seifer gets his instructions from Rinoa in disk 2 if you remember. Before she collapses she goes to Seifer and cradles his head, then passes out. It's then that she orders Seifer to find the Lunatic Panora for her, as she wants Adel.

Seifer is 2nd in command to Edea who is in charge of the nation, so with Edea gone, and the president is dead, Seifer is the next in line. It's like a military coup. I think the public are unhappy with Seifer in charge and would have eventually tried to dispose of him, but in the mean time Seifer is in charge.

You can visit General Caraway throughout, he has a few things to say. He has been kicked out long before because of the assassination attempt, and is currently sulking about Rinoa in his study.

I buy that Seifer was acting on Ultimecia's orders by way of Rinoa; I don't exactly buy that the Galbadian Military would. They're fascist assholes, sure, but Edea has up and left and suddenly they're now going to take orders from her lapdog? That seems a bit of a stretch to me.

My headcanon though with Galbadia is that back in the Sorceress War many Galbadian soldiers were idealists like Laguna who just wanted to protect the continent from Estharian aggression. By the time of the game though the military had become a nepotistic cesspool of thugs and sociopaths, who keep the civilians in the mother country satiated through plunder taken from the occupied territories under their jackboot.

I don't remember Caraway being discharged from his post, he seemed to still have influence as he pulled strings to have Rinoa released from D-District Prison.

Now I hope i'm not going to over complicate things, but I don't think Adel was possessed when she was defeated by Laguna, unless i'm forgetting a plot point/scene. Adel is systematically kidnapping girls in Laguna's time because she wants an heir. She finds Ellone and singles her out as a good candidate due to her power. Its not related to time compression at this point.

Yeah but Rinoa puts Ultimecia's conciousness in the young Adel. I mean to me it makes sense, how else would Adel know to search for Adel besides knowing about her existence through the causal time loop?

Ah now this is where I have to disagree, I think it and am saying it now because the game presents it to us. In the final battle Ultimecia's dialogue, combined with her previous actions makes that really clear to me.

I don't know if you know the fan theory of Rinoa/Ulti but that is because of what Ultimecia says in the final battle and points to her inability to let go of the past, which relates directly to Squall's own issues. The Rinoa/Ulti theory is an extension of that theme.

I'm talking about presentation though. FFVIII kinda buries the lead on that sort of stuff by putting the (frankly nonsensical) mechanics of time travel front and center, while the themes have to be sifted to find. If the idea of the 'Succession of Witches' was a theme more visible in the narrative/game world early on, as well as potentially the idea of a 'final witch/sorceress', that'd go a long way to making these elements feel more congruent, much like my criticism about the Lunar Cry..

I mean, my point though is having neat ideas is only half of the equation; how those are presented and contextualized matters too. Don't get me wrong, I get how not coming to terms with the past and fear about the future are major themes in the game, and some moments are handled very well. Just all the time travel stuff has been sort of 'what... well, okay...' to me.

Also sorry it's taken me so long to get around to writing his reply. I've been busy moving into college and starting classes, it's b been really hectic. I'll try beating VIII this weekend.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Dunno if it was posted in this thread yet (or if everyone has seen it) but the design of the Ring of the Lucii in FF15 is apparently a neat reference to one of the occult magazines from FF8

There are some tiny differences... but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a reference considering the two games share a lot of the same developers. Does the ring in FF8 have a name?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

There are some tiny differences... but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a reference considering the two games share a lot of the same developers. Does the ring in FF8 have a name?

Nah. Its as is. from tbe occult magazine

 

[Muffdraul]

There are some tiny differences... but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a reference considering the two games share a lot of the same developers. Does the ring in FF8 have a name?

It was the Ring of Solomon, one of the items needed to summon the GF Doomtrain.

 

[Jennipeg]

I buy that Seifer was acting on Ultimecia's orders by way of Rinoa; I don't exactly buy that the Galbadian Military would. They're fascist assholes, sure, but Edea has up and left and suddenly they're now going to take orders from her lapdog? That seems a bit of a stretch to me.

My headcanon though with Galbadia is that back in the Sorceress War many Galbadian soldiers were idealists like Laguna who just wanted to protect the continent from Estharian aggression. By the time of the game though the military had become a nepotistic cesspool of thugs and sociopaths, who keep the civilians in the mother country satiated through plunder taken from the occupied territories under their jackboot.

I don't remember Caraway being discharged from his post, he seemed to still have influence as he pulled strings to have Rinoa released from D-District Prison.



Yeah but Rinoa puts Ultimecia's conciousness in the young Adel. I mean to me it makes sense, how else would Adel know to search for Adel besides knowing about her existence through the causal time loop?




I'm talking about presentation though. FFVIII kinda buries the lead on that sort of stuff by putting the (frankly nonsensical) mechanics of time travel front and center, while the themes have to be sifted to find. If the idea of the 'Succession of Witches' was a theme more visible in the narrative/game world early on, as well as potentially the idea of a 'final witch/sorceress', that'd go a long way to making these elements feel more congruent, much like my criticism about the Lunar Cry..

I mean, my point though is having neat ideas is only half of the equation; how those are presented and contextualized matters too. Don't get me wrong, I get how not coming to terms with the past and fear about the future are major themes in the game, and some moments are handled very well. Just all the time travel stuff has been sort of 'what... well, okay...' to me.

Also sorry it's taken me so long to get around to writing his reply. I've been busy moving into college and starting classes, it's b been really hectic. I'll try beating VIII this weekend.

Oh its no problem your not on a schedule . I look forward to your thoughts when you finish it. I think that will be a good time to discuss the timey wimey plot. My idea of Time Compression is when you face Ultimecia's 3rd form. I'm not sure if everyone else will agree but the setting of that battle is what I imagine it would be like. You'll see when you get there.

General Caraway tells Squall he has been pushed out, though I can't exactly remember when that is. I think your interpretation of Galbadia is pretty accurate, which is why I think Seifer could temporarily take control in Ultimecia's name. I think the G army know about her, and know where Seifer is getting his orders. Though I don't think his power would have lasted, I think Fujin and Rajin are a good indication that everyone is getting fed up with it all.

Rinoa says she was inside a 'young' Adel. But 17 years before when Laguna was fighting her, she wasn't any younger than when Rinoa releases her. She has been frozen so that she can't pass on her powers, so I don't think she has aged. I think Rinoa was inside her head as a young girl maybe before she went evil. I think Adel was evil on her own, which was why her body is deformed by her magic.

I'll wait till you finish it before asking about the themes of the game, as there is some further development in the last dungeon and I don't want to spoil it.

I hope you enjoy the GOAT ending!

 

[Don_Tombery]

Got lost in time compression?
Believe in the power of love and friendship to find your way back ...

We'll be waiting... here ... We promise ;-)

 

[Kaizer]

This thread inspired me to pick up FFVIII & finally play it after all these years. Been playing on PS3 for a few hours now & I haven't the faintest idea of what I'm doing with Triple Triad lol

 

[vainglorious]

OP probably can't handle the amazingness of the final dungeon.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

OP probably can't handle the amazingness of the final dungeon.

I mean, if its OPs first time, the final disc is no laughing matter.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Got lost in time compression?
Believe in the power of love and friendship to find your way back ...

We'll be waiting... here ... We promise ;-)

More like got lost in graduate school/ Battlefield 1 beta; essentially same thing.

Hopefully sometime this week I'll be able to put aside 4 or 5 hours to.beating Ultimecia's castle. No shame in using a guide, right?

 

[vainglorious]

More like got lost in graduate school/ Battlefield 1 beta; essentially same thing.

Hopefully sometime this week I'll be able to put aside 4 or 5 hours to.beating Ultimecia's castle. No shame in using a guide, right?

BOOOOO

 

[BreezyLimbo]

More like got lost in graduate school/ Battlefield 1 beta; essentially same thing.

Hopefully sometime this week I'll be able to put aside 4 or 5 hours to.beating Ultimecia's castle. No shame in using a guide, right?

I would recommend NOT using a guide, actually.

Like...Disc 4 is something else. Pure gameplay? Using a guide would spoil it hard.

 

[chemicals]

Worst FF, it's best for XV to separate it's from it the better.

I get migraine trying to play this.

I agree with this guy. I'm a fan of the franchise since FF1 but hated the bloat of this game. 9 and 10 were so much better. Style over substance - hated it.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

I would recommend NOT using a guide, actually.

Like...Disc 4 is something else. Pure gameplay? Using a guide would spoil it hard.

BOOOOO

Look, I'm a graduate student who has already put like 30 hours into the game; there's like six other games I want to get to. I don't wanna waste time guessing how to deal with her guardians. At this point I just wanna beat the game and be done with it. Not that I'm not enjoying it but I can't really treat games as a full-time investment anymore.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Ok fine.

Just don't use a guide for the Painting room, or the Piano room.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Ok fine.

Just don't use a guide for the Painting room, or the Piano room.

I'm sorry but this really is holding up me getting to a lot of other things. I don't wanna let people down, but the curveball of this castle is frankly way more annoying than it is interesting; I kinda just want it over with.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Fuck everything, I think I made the game unwinnable by choosing Limit Break as the first seal to break. Whelp guess I'm doing Lunatic Pandora again.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Fuck everything, I think I made the game unwinnable by choosing Limit Break as the first seal to break. Whelp guess I'm doing Lunatic Pandora again.

Yeah, Unlock Magic deffo, as the next boss(Tri-Point) is weak to Fire/Ice and won't counterattack when you use either type of spell.(Casting protect is also good.)

 

[otapnam]

I always forget I have a squall necklace somewhere. My kids will probably get a hoot at how nerdy their dad was

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Yeah, Unlock Magic deffo, as the next boss(Tri-Point) is weak to Fire/Ice and won't counterattack when you use either type of spell.(Casting protect is also good.)

Before Junctioning? I figure I could junction affinities he's weak against to my weapons.

Also is the organ music something I can find the notes to in the game or am I just supposed to know it?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Before Junctioning? I figure I could junction affinities he's weak against to my weapons.

Also is the organ music something I can find the notes to in the game or am I just supposed to know it?

Yea since hes weak to the spells themselves iirc.

As for the notes it follows basic structure but IIRC the boss that needs it, you just smash all the face buttons/shoulder buttons.

 

[GoodMorningPluto]

Before Junctioning? I figure I could junction affinities he's weak against to my weapons.

Also is the organ music something I can find the notes to in the game or am I just supposed to know it?

You can junction magic freely at any point in Ultimecia Castle, just can't use it without Magic command. Frankly speaking, if you are relatively beefed up, you can clear whole dungeon with Limit Breaks and something for healing, like Magic or Items.
Organ music you need to hit all notes at the same time, but it only leads to Rosetta Stone, not to any boss.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You can junction magic freely at any point in Ultimecia Castle, just can't use it without Magic command. Frankly speaking, if you are relatively beefed up, you can clear whole dungeon with Limit Breaks and something for healing, like Magic or Items.
Organ music you need to hit all notes at the same time, but it only leads to Rosetta Stone, not to any boss.

Thought you needed to smash them all to get Tiamat to show up?

Hrm, shows what I remember. Now if you want to fight Omega Weapon...that....that you need a FAQ for.

 

[GoodMorningPluto]

Nope, you don't need to do anything special to reach Tiamat, just ride the bell in clock tower to his place. Organ controls the bars in the water passageway, each key corresponging to one of the bars.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Small update: Just beat Tri-Point. Should get up to Ultimecia by tonight, hopefully.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Alright, all the Minions are dead. Now onto Ultimecia. Wish me luck!

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Go for it whoooo!