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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia

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Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I'm an historian, by training. Nowhere have I suggested that the negative aspects of the country's earlier leaders should be ignored; but giving primacy to those negative aspects is no more balanced than ignoring them. Macdonald's accomplishments were considerable, and the nation as it exists today, both good and ill, derives heavily from the work he did. The same is true of all the great or near-great early leaders (Laurier -- who, incidentally, was probably less progressive in respect to aboriginal peoples than Macdonald was; Macdonald gave many aboriginals the right to vote, which Laurier rescinded, and wouldn't be restored until Diefenbaker); Borden, and King).

...Hold the phone.

Dief the Chief gave natives the right to vote, the Canadian Bill of Rights, and wanted to keep the superior flag (the Canadian Red Ensign) under which a national identity developed over two World Wars?

Best Conservative Canadian PM of all-time.
 

mo60

Member
that was a huge mistake on his part, a rookie mistake if I might at.

he painted himself in a box with such a ideological stance that it erases strategic practicality.

a more experienced leader would not have blindly said ''open nominations''; now he is learning the hard way when he really wants to push for a preferred candidate.

Not many open seats left in the Western half of Montreal for 2019; Yolande James should try the Outremont challenge LOL.

If Mulcair is still around in 2019 she's probably wasting her time if she decides to run for the Liberals in Outremont.
 

CazTGG

Member
Reminder: There are only two weeks left to become a member of the CPC and vote in the leadership/stop Kellie Leitch & Kevin O'Leary: http://www.conservative.ca/leadership/en

Does Mulcair really plan to stay at the helm of the NPD?

He...can't? I mean, he will be the leader until the election later this year and will likely run for his seat in the 2019 election.

Speaking of, now that we have a list of candidates for that party (and a much shorter one compared to the Conservative Party's leadership), what do you all think of those in the running? Angus' outspoken support for improving the rights and conditions of indigenous Canadians makes him appealing, but his French could use some work.
 
No? Not sure why anyone (other than gutter and his fantasies of Mulcair as international spy for hire or whatever) would think he would be.

But I guess he might try to keep his seat.

He said last spring that it was unlikely he'd run again in 2019. I've heard second-hand info that he's pretty much completely checked out at this point (the exact description was "He sits in his office all day watching Netflix"), so I don't think anything has changed since then.

I thought he said this word be his last term.

oh, he won't be 65 yet.... derp

What does 65 have to do with it? MPs get pensions after 6 years, and he's been there nearly 10 years.

Speaking of, now that we have a list of candidates for that party (and a much shorter one compared to the Conservative Party's leadership), what do you all think of those in the running? Angus' outspoken support for improving the rights and conditions of indigenous Canadians makes him appealing, but his French could use some work.

Of the four already announced:
- Peter Julian is the human embodiment of the colour beige. I know someone who insists that he's a passionately hard-left, and apparently his French is flawless, but he's just so bland I can't imagine him winning.
- Guy Caron is...fine. Also pretty dull, but he'll stand out by virtue of being the only francophone in the race (though it doesn't make a huge difference, because despite their number of Quebec seats, they have barely any card-carrying members, which means he wouldn't get any advantage from trying to do a favoured son-style candidacy).
- Charlie Angus and Niki Ashton are going to fight it out to be the Bernie of the race, but I feel like a better analogue for either of them would be Jeremy Corbyn. Ashton's French is miles better, but they're both pretty far to the left on most issues. Ashton is fantastic on paper, but she's a lousy speaker, and it doesn't seem like she's grown as a candidate since her last run at the leadership in 2012.

Of course, the thing to remember with the NDP race is that Jagmeet Singh is going to jump in at some point this spring and sweep the floor with all of them. The race is geared towards whoever can sell the most memberships, and I don't think there's any question that he's in the best position to do that. He's well to the right of those five (and also to the right of Sid Ryan, who is the one other person who might jump in), but I don't think that'll be enough to stop him from winning.
 
He said last spring that it was unlikely he'd run again in 2019. I've heard second-hand info that he's pretty much completely checked out at this point (the exact description was "He sits in his office all day watching Netflix"), so I don't think anything has changed since then.



What does 65 have to do with it? MPs get pensions after 6 years, and he's been there nearly 10 years.

Harper changed the rules for MPs after 2015, reason why MacKay, Baird and many others bailed before his MP pension changes came into effect
 
Harper changed the rules for MPs after 2015, reason why MacKay, Baird and many others bailed before his MP pension changes came into effect

You're right! I completely forgot about that. So Mulcair just stays on as an MP to 2019, and then doesn't run again. He turns 65 three days after the 2019 election, and I'm sure that, no matter what his financial situation may be, he can afford to go three days between his salary ending and his pension kicking in.
 

bremon

Member
Got an email from Bernier's campaign. Max wants us to know that our gun laws are too strict and he will repeal bans on various firearms as well as maximum clip sizes. That way when we are at the firing range we can spend more time shooting and less time reloading.
 
http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/944950e3-868a-4cd3-883e-25ece4555363|_0.html

quick translation :

The guy works for the government in Quebec, he was put on hold a couple of years ago, he's been making 130k a year to show up at the office and do nothing or go home and read, and he's not alone

hahahaha nobody ever gets laid off in the senior echelons of Quebec's public sector

I have a friend who is a junior social worker at a CLSC; all the seniors and managers stay on board, get their unions to invent a new ''job title'' to stay relevant.
There are more managers than actual workers

Whenever the government axes and cuts; the senior public officials usually lay off the juniors who do the actual work but save their friends' seniority asses
 

CazTGG

Member
Got an email from Bernier's campaign. Max wants us to know that our gun laws are too strict and he will repeal bans on various firearms as well as maximum clip sizes. That way when we are at the firing range we can spend more time shooting and less time reloading.

Was the Conservatives wiping away Canada's firearm registry during the Harper Years not enough for him?

- Charlie Angus and Niki Ashton are going to fight it out to be the Bernie of the race, but I feel like a better analogue for either of them would be Jeremy Corbyn. Ashton's French is miles better, but they're both pretty far to the left on most issues. Ashton is fantastic on paper, but she's a lousy speaker, and it doesn't seem like she's grown as a candidate since her last run at the leadership in 2012.

Funny that.

niki-ashton-steve-ashton-bernie-sanders.png
 
This is why you should join us in the REAL FACE OF CHANGE

#GND2018

DO IT GUTTER_TRASH
I have been living in the riding of Mercier (dans Le Plateau) and I voted strategically for Amir Khadir to block the PQ in 2008

I had a great deal of HATRED for the PQ's constitutional expert: Daniel Turp and his stupid bow ties. This guy was a major scumbag.

I hated Daniel Turp so much that I voted strategically for QS' Amir Khadir and it worked.
-----

if you live in Gouin, I want GND to win there to divide to PQ further in the future.
 

imBask

Banned
I have been living in the riding of Mercier (dans Le Plateau) and I voted strategically for Amir Khadir to block the PQ in 2008

I had a great deal of HATRED for the PQ's constitutional expert: Daniel Turp and his stupid bow ties. This guy was a major scumbag.

I hated Daniel Turp so much that I voted strategically for QS' Amir Khadir and it worked.
-----

if you live in Gouin, I want GND to win there to divide to PQ further in the future.

nah I live in Rosemont so my vote is bound to be meaningless, Lisée is my MP... I did join QS to show my support for GND though. First time i've ever joined a political party
 

Barrage

Member
Reminder: There are only two weeks left to become a member of the CPC and vote in the leadership/stop Kellie Leitch & Kevin O'Leary: http://www.conservative.ca/leadership/en



Speaking of, now that we have a list of candidates for that party (and a much shorter one compared to the Conservative Party's leadership), what do you all think of those in the running? Angus' outspoken support for improving the rights and conditions of indigenous Canadians makes him appealing, but his French could use some work.

The Liberals are salivating at the potential Quebec numbers in a Trudeau-O'Leary-Angus matchup.

I think Angus is the right guy to lead,but none of the NDP candidates are gonna lift the NDP's low ceiling for the next election
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
The Liberals are salivating at the potential Quebec numbers in a Trudeau-O'Leary-Angus matchup.

I think Angus is the right guy to lead,but none of the NDP candidates are gonna lift the NDP's low ceiling for the next election

Yeah, the NDP is very lucky the election happened when it did. They were in free fall at the time.

From Wiki:


Not good at all.

Also, you need to remember, the Bloc will be happy about the decline of the NDP there too, that's particularly concerning.
 
Barrage predicts Angus.

who do you guys predict wins the NDP leadership?

I don't know them, so I can't tell LOL. I only graded them on their 2nd language skills.

Angus' French is early Harper 2003. Ashton and Julien's French are way better.
 

CazTGG

Member
Assuming Singh or Layton's son doesn't enter (the latter is unlikely but I see Mike's name pop up quite a lot when any discussion of the NDP leadership crops up), it's Angus' race to win.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Barrage predicts Angus.

who do you guys predict wins the NDP leadership?

I don't know them, so I can't tell LOL. I only graded them on their 2nd language skills.

Angus' French is early Harper 2003. Ashton and Julien's French are way better.

Angus is most likely for sure I think. The position is basically his to lose at this point, it appears.
 
speaking of leadership, the Bloc crowns theirs today.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...rtine-ouellet-veut-faire-renaitre-le-bloc.php

Martine Ouellet, (a sitting PQ MNA who is from both the left wing and the hardcore separatist-nationalist wing of the PQ) will be the Bloc's leader.

Controversy is that she is still wants to keep her seat as MNA provincially at the same time being a leader of a Federal party. So she will sit as an Independent in Quebec City for now LOL.

Ironically, the PQ is happy to get rid of her because she is known to be a bad team player.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Behold: The Liberal Party's worst nightmare (aside from Kellie Leitch winning the CPC leadership)!

I assume you're joking because wouldn't she have trouble gaining support from non-Tory members? More than most of the other candidates.
 

Sean C

Member
(though it doesn't make a huge difference, because despite their number of Quebec seats, they have barely any card-carrying members, which means he wouldn't get any advantage from trying to do a favoured son-style candidacy).
Yeah, I didn't realize until now that the NDP doesn't do the point allocation method that the Liberals and Tories use, so that really skews things in favour of (or, I guess, doesn't skew things away from) the party's historic strongholds.

Behold: The Liberal Party's worst nightmare (aside from Kellie Leitch winning the CPC leadership)!
My Liberal MP, at least, has told me that Leitch is his preferred choice from the among the major contenders.
 

CazTGG

Member
Speaking of, does GAF have a favourite in this race?

Ideally? The party disappears into the ether.

Realistically? Michael Chong since, however obscene his tax plan may be, he's the only one to seem palatable as a leader. I would never vote for him but I wouldn't be terrified of his leadership like I would for a Leitch/O'Leary leadership.

Also: Let's not get cocky in thinking Leitch couldn't win the 2019 election. It's too early to tell how any of the three party's will fare when there's two more years for the Liberals to deliver/fail to follow through on their campaign promises. Electoral reform may have been minor but if they back off from decriminalizing and legalizing marijuana? The Liberals will have a problem on their hand if they drop that.
 

maharg

idspispopd
I don't think the leader the NDP chooses is all that important right now because the problem they really have is the divide between LEAP Manifesto supporters and the more pragmatic wing of the party that's concentrated in Alberta and holds sway almost entirely because it's the only place the NDP govern right now.

Whoever they choose it will exacerbate that divide.
 
Funny that.

I know Ashton *wants* to be associated with Bernie, but that doesn't mean she will be.

who do you guys predict wins the NDP leadership?

I think Singh is a shoo-in. Some people may be annoyed that he's holding off until after the BC election, but a race like this is purely about who can sign up the most people. He's from just outside Toronto, plus he's plugged into the Sikh community, and those two factors should mean he'll have access to more people than anyone else in the race. It's possible Angus or Ashton somehow pull off a miracle, but right now, even though he's not even officially announced, I think Singh is the front-runner.

I maintain that I think O'Leary will win this easily

It definitely won't be easy with 14 people on the ballot. Best case scenario for him -- or anyone else, really -- is winning on the 6th or 7th ballot, and even that would be pushing it. I think it goes 10 or 11 rounds, and whoever wins just squeaks past 50%+1.

And I don't think O'Leary does it. He's basically writing off one-third of the country to start off. Even if some of the tiny Quebec ridings are ripe for picking off, I don't think he can do that over Bernier or, with Deltell's endorsement, O'Toole. That means that he has to win the rest of the country by huge margins, and in a competitive race with 13 other people -- almost all of whom have home riding advantages, unlike him -- that's practically impossible. I'm not saying it's guaranteed that O'Leary loses, but I think that's much, much more likely than him winning.

Ideally? The party disappears into the ether.

Realistically? Michael Chong since, however obscene his tax plan may be, he's the only one to seem palatable as a leader. I would never vote for him but I wouldn't be terrified of his leadership like I would for a Leitch/O'Leary leadership.

Also: Let's not get cocky in thinking Leitch couldn't win the 2019 election. It's too early to tell how any of the three party's will fare when there's two more years for the Liberals to deliver/fail to follow through on their campaign promises. Electoral reform may have been minor but if they back off from decriminalizing and legalizing marijuana? The Liberals will have a problem on their hand if they drop that.

Realistically, Michael Chong is not winning the leadership. Realistically, he drops off the ballot after Obhrai / Peterson / Saxton / Trost / Lemieux / Alexander / Blaney, but before the top 6 candidates (being Bernier, O'Leary, Scheer, Raitt, O'Toole, and Leitch).

I think that from a nonpartisan/good of the country perspective, someone like Raitt or O'Toole would be ideal. They hold some pretty terrible beliefs, particularly on the environment, but they generally believe in having a government that functions normally, which is more than can be said for most of the candidates. I wouldn't like a lot of what they do, but I also wouldn't be terrified that I'd wake up one day to discover that healthcare was ending (like Bernier), minorities were being rounded up in internment camps (Leitch), or the country had been sold off to pay off pyramid scheme debts (O'Leary).
 

p_xavier

Authorized Fister
hahahaha nobody ever gets laid off in the senior echelons of Quebec's public sector

I have a friend who is a junior social worker at a CLSC; all the seniors and managers stay on board, get their unions to invent a new ''job title'' to stay relevant.
There are more managers than actual workers

Whenever the government axes and cuts; the senior public officials usually lay off the juniors who do the actual work but save their friends' seniority asses
I quit working for the federal government because of this. You could fire 2/3 of the "public servants" and it wouldn't make a difference.
 

CazTGG

Member
Realistically, Michael Chong is not winning the leadership. Realistically, he drops off the ballot after Obhrai / Peterson / Saxton / Trost / Lemieux / Alexander / Blaney, but before the top 6 candidates (being Bernier, O'Leary, Scheer, Raitt, O'Toole, and Leitch).

I think that from a nonpartisan/good of the country perspective, someone like Raitt or O'Toole would be ideal. They hold some pretty terrible beliefs, particularly on the environment, but they generally believe in having a government that functions normally, which is more than can be said for most of the candidates. I wouldn't like a lot of what they do, but I also wouldn't be terrified that I'd wake up one day to discover that healthcare was ending (like Bernier), minorities were being rounded up in internment camps (Leitch), or the country had been sold off to pay off pyramid scheme debts (O'Leary).

Realistically as in who would be preferable as leader since the CPC is not going to disappear. Chong is unlikely to win in comparison to Leitch, O'Leary or Bernier but it's worth noting the amount of people who have signed up solely to vote against the current frontrunners for a less atrocious candidate to lead the party, to the point where Kellie Leitch thought she'd check out people's online profiles to see what they said about her and bar them from voting (or something along those lines, it's been a while since I read that news story).
 
NDP need to stop being another welfare liberal party and go full on dem socs if they want my vote back


nationalize Timmies






also someone give me a rundown on Erin O Toole.
 

Leeness

Member
Realistically as in who would be preferable as leader since the CPC is not going to disappear. Chong is unlikely to win in comparison to Leitch, O'Leary or Bernier but it's worth noting the amount of people who have signed up solely to vote against the current frontrunners for a less atrocious candidate to lead the party, to the point where Kellie Leitch thought she'd check out people's online profiles to see what they said about her and bar them from voting (or something along those lines, it's been a while since I read that news story).

Speaking of this, got my card for the garbage party and ready to vote!

Won't even be putting Leitch, O'Leary or Bernier on my ballot. 😤
 
A former vets ombudsman is now thinking of entering the federal NDP leadership race.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/stogran-ndp-leadership-1.4024617

I hope he's not another Mulcair, but I do think he will prevent the NDP from moving to far to the left if he became leader of the party.

...who?

I'm not saying an outsider has no chance, and there are certainly exceptions to this, but I don't think that any party -- and particularly the NDP -- will be all that open to a guy who isn't even a member six months out from their leadership convention. He has no roots in the party, no organization...nothing he'd need to help him jump from obscurity, over four sitting MPs and one sitting MPP, into a position to influence the direction of the party.

The only outsider (as in, not currently an elected official) I could realistically see jumping in and having an impact would be Sid Ryan. He'd be incredibly divisive -- some NDPers seem to loathe him, for reasons I'm not entirely clear on -- but he's already threatening to jump in if the candidates are left-wing enough for his liking.

Realistically as in who would be preferable as leader since the CPC is not going to disappear. Chong is unlikely to win in comparison to Leitch, O'Leary or Bernier but it's worth noting the amount of people who have signed up solely to vote against the current frontrunners for a less atrocious candidate to lead the party, to the point where Kellie Leitch thought she'd check out people's online profiles to see what they said about her and bar them from voting (or something along those lines, it's been a while since I read that news story).

Gotcha -- I misunderstood how you answered the question. From that perspective I kind of see it, but it feels a little like Chong has become kind of like a cypher candidate, with a lot of people projecting qualities onto him just because he quit cabinet in a fit of pique ten years ago. He's done some admirable things, like coming out clearly against Leitch's bigotry, but like I think you said before, he's still not a great candidate.

(And it was Nick Kouvalis claiming that they were monitoring people, which means it should be taken with a huge grain of salt.)

also someone give me a rundown on Erin O Toole.

Amiable veteran who served briefly as Harper's Minister of Veterans Affairs but wasn't there long enough to make much of an impression. His French is functional, but unspectacular. He comes across as a dorky neighbourhood dad. No one has anything bad to say about him, which means he may be a dark horse candidate as people's second/third choice.
 
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