Garrett Hawke
Member
I haven't read the zelda bit because I don't want spoilers as I'm currently playing it.both are.
I haven't read the zelda bit because I don't want spoilers as I'm currently playing it.both are.
I think both articles about BotW cross-dressing are overreaching regarding the context.
As I see it, Gerudo City is pretty much a carbon copy of Timbuktu in west Africa during the 1900th century. Timbuktu was a forbidden city for Europeans (for political reasons), until René Caillés was able to get in the city in 1828, disguised as an arab.
Sounds like more reaching to make Nintendo as progressive as you wish it was when they dont deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Feel free to come correct your reply after you've played Zelda.they're not really making up trans characters, at all.
they are presenting their interpretation of these characters, and there is a good case around Horizon (I don't know enough about the Zelda example as I'm trying to avoid spoilers on that one).
also there is straight up a trans character in mass effect.
I haven't read the zelda bit because I don't want spoilers as I'm currently playing it.
The horizon interpretation is perfectly valid.
StopWe also have to remember that most people do not understand the difference between male and female. For example, Birdetta is referred to as a man in the SMB2 manual, but that's not at all accurate to how gender works. It inclines me to assume that the director mixed up sex and gender, a very common thing in Japan due to how underground LGBT issues are.
Also Samus is a trans woman
Playing Zelda won't change my opinion of the HZD character.Feel free to come correct your reply after you've played Zelda.
I've skimmed, that's itYou've already been spoiled. Since you know there is a Gerudo town and a cross-dresser. You could spend hours looking for this person.
Sounds like more reaching to make Nintendo as progressive as you wish it was.
Stop
What's odd is that the Gerudo Town in BotW is fairly progressive in its depiction of women (I've seriously never seen so many different body types in a game) yet the author to focus instead of creating a trans character when their wasn't one, then criticizing the game for handling it poorly (which it wasn't trying to do).
I have no problem shitting on games for poor LGBT representation, but this is akin to taking Naruto and Sasuke kissing in the first chapter of the manga then complaining that Kishimoto did a poor job of presenting Naruto as a gay character. It's extreme reaching in their Zelda example (I don't know enough about the other games to comment)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_baitingWhat's odd is that the Gerudo Town in BotW is fairly progressive in its depiction of women (I've seriously never seen so many different body types in a game) yet the author to focus instead of creating a trans character when their wasn't one, then criticizing the game for handling it poorly (which it wasn't trying to do).
I have no problem shitting on games for poor LGBT representation, but this is akin to taking Naruto and Sasuke kissing in the first chapter of the manga then complaining that Kishimoto did a poor job of presenting Naruto as a gay character. It's extreme reaching in their Zelda example (I don't know enough about the other games to comment)
The horizon interpretation is perfectly valid.
What's odd is that the Gerudo Town in BotW is fairly progressive in its depiction of women (I've seriously never seen so many different body types in a game) yet the author to focus instead of creating a trans character when their wasn't one, then criticizing the game for handling it poorly (which it wasn't trying to do).
I have no problem shitting on games for poor LGBT representation, but this is akin to taking Naruto and Sasuke kissing in the first chapter of the manga then complaining that Kishimoto did a poor job of presenting Naruto as a gay character. It's extreme reaching in their Zelda example (I don't know enough about the other games to comment)
To be honest, Brianna Wu is a joke. I had to unfollow her because she just starts so much crap and she once sat down with Brad Wardell and said "we actually have a lot in common" when it came to business etc. She's not really much of an ally despite herself being trans.
I felt the same way about Krem in dai, would've been cool to have him in a larger role.I thought it was pretty good, all things considered.
The quest was short though. I thought they were a cool character and was hoping for a little more.
The author explains that it is problematic because it isn't explicit, thus provides people with an out (oh well I didn't see it).The interpretation of the character and scene is valid, but the author fails to in any way justify why it would be problematic. It's completely reasonable to have a character make an assumption about gender. That's a thing most, if not all people do, and has nothing to do with trans issues.
I'm glad you cared enough to post in this thread about how much you don't care about transgender people. Riveting quality post. I just want better representation of transgender people, but it seems we are still struggling unfortunately with even female characters as well as LGB characters.
I felt the same way about Krem in dai, would've been cool to have him in a larger role.
but also commends the character for being one of the top tier representations of transgender characters in a video game. See, it's not all bad.I felt the same way about Krem in dai, would've been cool to have him in a larger role.
The author explains that it is problematic because it isn't explicit, thus provides people with an out (oh well I didn't see it).
And what good will this do for you? I too have yet to play a game where I can identify myself with the main character(or even a sidekick/bystander), they are most of the time much too perfect(or completely rad). Most modern games feature perfect, symmetric-shaped human beings without any flaws, much like with movies, cause that's what the majority wants to see, wants to play -or so the industry thinks at least and I don't think this will change anytime soon.
This thread is going placesI didn't even know she wrote the article, I just knew that there was a quotation that Samus was a trans woman. I agree that Brianna Wu has trashy opinions.
The interpretation of the character and scene is valid, but the author fails to in any way justify why it would be problematic. It's completely reasonable to have a character make an assumption about gender. That's a thing most, if not all people do, and has nothing to do with trans issues.
Its not perfect as a scene, as the lack of explicit trans language usage means many will deny this interpretation of the character.
It's an entire town of people to trade with but you need to be a woman to enter. The fact that someone would do so isn't outrageous. [...] Had the male in woman's clothing been somewhere else rather than attempting to get into an all women's town, then I'd see the argument. As it is it's reaching.
Transgender issues in sci-fi games have always seemed weird to me. In the future, wouldn't anyone undergoing a gender change procedure be completely unnoticeable from anyone else? How would you ever know? Why would it ever get brought up? Like, why would anyone care? I don't really know anything about trans-culture at all though so maybe I just don't understand.
The term refers to what happens "when people in the media (usually television/movies) add homoerotic tension between two characters to attract more liberal and queer viewers with the indication of them not ever getting together for real in the show/book/movie".
Is that character in Horizon trans? Her self identification comes from being a soldier, in a society which only allows men to join the army, rather than assuming a male identity.
By that Zelda logic of wearing more feminine clothes than you need to complete a quest line somehow makes you trans, then by that same logic Cloud is trans if you go the whole nine yards in playing dress-up with him. I really think they're reaching.
By that Zelda logic of wearing more feminine clothes than you need to complete a quest line somehow makes you trans, then by that same logic Cloud is trans if you go the whole nine yards in playing dress-up with him. I really think they're reaching.
They are reaching really, really goddamn hard with Zelda.
They are reaching really, really goddamn hard with Zelda.
And then if you go inside and talk to some NPCs they'll say "wait aren't you a boy?" And then he gets all freaked out as if he was caught. I'm pretty sure it was obviously just supposed to be a joke and nothing else.But Cloud displayed visible dismay over that situation, and was obviously made uncomfortable by the fact that he was to act like a woman. In BotW, Link acts femininely when complimented on his femininity while wearing the clothing.
I took the Horizon character's comment about, "not being one of your sisters" as more of a commentary on the different places that women hold in Carja and Nora cultures than an indication of gender identity.
It's an RPG, no? There's literally nothing stopping you from getting the Gerudo clothing and playing the rest of the game with it on. As such, you could argue that the Link in that playthrough enjoyed being a woman more than being a man, and therefore became aware of their trans nature throughout the playthrough. It's the type of story the player has to make up as they play the game, but it isn't "reaching" to suggest that some people will see Link in that way.
Everyone has lines they don't like to see crossed, but those lines are different for everyone. It isn't about limiting what types of criticism are acceptable, it's about understanding that criticism is valid/invalid only based on the person giving the criticism. I don't mean that you can make a joke and be free from criticism, because that isn't the case. You are free to say whatever you want, but you aren't free from the social repercussions that arise from you saying that.
The everything/nothing rule is far from asinine. It's freedom of speech. Without it, we wouldn't have had a lot of George Carlin's work, or South Park, for that matter. Nor Bo Burnham, or really anything that has ever offended anyone. And as for people trying to "limit what types of criticism are acceptable," I have no intentions of that. However, it seems like a lot of people are ready to jump to the idea of a person being at fault for not immediately sharing their views, and that's fucking silly.
Last time I'm posting in this thread, but remember that the game was made in a different country, with different cultures, and different mindsets. LGBT really isn't a thing over there-- at least not to the degree that it is here.
But Cloud displayed visible dismay over that situation, and was obviously made uncomfortable by the fact that he was to act like a woman. In BotW, Link acts femininely when complimented on his femininity while wearing the clothing.
And then if you go inside and talk to some NPCs they'll say "wait aren't you a boy?" And then he gets all freaked out as if he was caught. I'm pretty sure it was obviously just supposed to be a joke and nothing else.
I mean, it's not like any of the sidequest characters really reveal anything about themselves in the game anyway. Of course, I just watched LOTR again and I just look at that character as part of the same trope that Eowyn represents, so maybe that example is just on my mind.We don't know because there is no language indicator to make it apparent unless you are LGBTQ yourself or are familiar with LGBTQ.