Garrett Hawke
Member
I haven't read the zelda bit because I don't want spoilers as I'm currently playing it.
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Polygon: Zelda, Horizon and Mass Effect all struggle with trans characters
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
Sounds like more reaching to make Nintendo as progressive as you wish it was when they dont deserve the benefit of the doubt.
not really especially in regards to the political climate of today's society.
The difference between the Zelda and Horizon interpretation from that of the Mass Effect one is that they're just that, interpretations. Its hard to say they're inferring one thing when there are multiple other equally logical interpetations. Its fine to interpret it that way but its hard to call it a problematic trans description when it might not even be trying to have trans themes in the first place.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Nothing in the canon that contradicts it, so I get to call her trans
Plus the fact is that the original comment was super offensive as it used a slur, so really I'm just making lemonade by taking ownership of the character for all trans people \o/
Feel free to come correct your reply after you've played Zelda.
Dark Ninja
Member
You've already been spoiled. Since you know there is a Gerudo town and a cross-dresser. You could spend hours looking for this person.
I thought it was pretty good, all things considered.
The quest was short though. I thought they were a cool character and was hoping for a little more.
Goose_Se7en
Banned
It makes sense now but not once did I think Janeva was trans in Horizon. Just didn't think that way.
veloxStrix
Banned
Transgender issues in sci-fi games have always seemed weird to me. In the future, wouldn't anyone undergoing a gender change procedure be completely unnoticeable from anyone else? How would you ever know? Why would it ever get brought up? Like, why would anyone care? I don't really know anything about trans-culture at all though so maybe I just don't understand.
edit: to be clear, issues within the game world themselves. Like interactions between characters. Not issues with how they are portrayed in the game by the writers.
edit: to be clear, issues within the game world themselves. Like interactions between characters. Not issues with how they are portrayed in the game by the writers.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Playing Zelda won't change my opinion of the HZD character.
I've skimmed, that's it
UnemployedVillain
Member
Edit: Bringing up the portrayal of Gerudo women is irrelevant to the discussion. It isn't my intention to try and say one positive portrayal outweighs another, completely different and unrelated one, so I'm just going to remove that bit.
I have no problem shitting on games for poor LGBT representation, but this is akin to taking Naruto and Sasuke kissing in the first chapter of the manga then complaining that Kishimoto did a poor job of presenting Naruto as a gay character. It's extreme reaching in their Zelda example (I don't know enough about the other games to comment)
A Link to the Past
Banned
https://www.themarysue.com/metroids-samus-aran-transgender-woman/
Canon tho
Plenty of people have commented on the quality interpretation of the Gerudo in that context, and frankly, the argument you're making is a pretty poor one regardless. If someone sees a flaw in something, they should be allowed to point it out without people criticizing them for not focusing on the qualities of what they are examining.
To be honest, Brianna Wu is a joke. I had to unfollow her because she just starts so much crap and she once sat down with Brad Wardell and said "we actually have a lot in common" when it came to business etc. She's not really much of an ally despite herself being trans.
Vincent Grayson
Member
The interpretation of the character and scene is valid, but the author fails to in any way justify why it would be problematic. It's completely reasonable to have a character make an assumption about gender. That's a thing most, if not all people do, and has nothing to do with trans issues.
Chezzymann
Member
Zelda was great I couldn't stop laughing when link did that bashful pose
just because you do this and this great doesn't mean you're safe from criticism. Look at Horizon. Amazing female protagonist but an american indian writer criticized the game's usage of brave and tribal.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I didn't even know she wrote the article, I just knew that there was a quotation that Samus was a trans woman. I agree that Brianna Wu has trashy opinions.
Garrett Hawke
Member
I felt the same way about Krem in dai, would've been cool to have him in a larger role.
The author explains that it is problematic because it isn't explicit, thus provides people with an out (oh well I didn't see it).
And what good will this do for you? I too have yet to play a game where I can identify myself with the main character(or even a sidekick/bystander), they are most of the time much too perfect(or completely rad). Most modern games feature perfect, symmetric-shaped human beings without any flaws, much like with movies, cause that's what the majority wants to see, wants to play -or so the industry thinks at least and I don't think this will change anytime soon.
DA4 will probably take place in Tevinter... Krem is from Tevinter... please god Bioware Krem as party member and love interest
but also commends the character for being one of the top tier representations of transgender characters in a video game. See, it's not all bad.
Well good for you. I'm glad you don't have to struggle with the problems the LGBTQ population or minorities have to struggle with. And it's already changing, with Ellie, a lead LGBT character in a triple A game called the Last of Us 2, Aloy a triple A game featuring a female protagonist that's written well with a very diverse setting/cast, Tracer from Overwatch, all selling a boat load, games featuring more LGBT characters. It's getting there and the only way to keep it going is to keep giving developers advice and also praise for when they do it right.
This thread is going places
I thought that Zelda quest was one of the funniest parts of the game in the same way that I thought it was funny when President Johnson grabbed Riden's junk in MGS2. I guess I'm part of the problem.
I do like the the thought of players directing Lynk in such a way that he/she uses the armor to better represent their identity, though I'm not sure if that was Nintendo's intention. I hope I'm wrong though!
I do like the the thought of players directing Lynk in such a way that he/she uses the armor to better represent their identity, though I'm not sure if that was Nintendo's intention. I hope I'm wrong though!
Laura makes the issues she has with Geneva pretty clear.
This in particular is a big one IMO.
Wowfunhappy
Member
That's how I saw it too.
In Player of Games from the Culture series, the main character is considered odd because he has never sex changed or engaged in gay relationships.
UnemployedVillain
Member
It wasn't that so I'm not sure what the relevance of that article was. My point is that there is a difference between criticizing poor portrayal of an LGBT character and pretending one is, then criticizing it for being a poor portrayal of something it was never trying to be. Zelda is the latter.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Is that character in Horizon trans? Her self identification comes from being a soldier, in a society which only allows men to join the army, rather than assuming a male identity.
Karsticles
Member
I haven't played the Zelda game, so I have to ask:
Is it transgenderism, or transvestism? It reads like the latter.
Is it transgenderism, or transvestism? It reads like the latter.
We don't know because there is no language indicator to make it apparent unless you are LGBTQ yourself or are familiar with LGBTQ.
A Link to the Past
Banned
But Cloud displayed visible dismay over that situation, and was obviously made uncomfortable by the fact that he was to act like a woman. In BotW, Link acts femininely when complimented on his femininity while wearing the clothing.
Metalingus5150
Member
Kinda felt the crossdressing played as a joke a little tasteless tbh.
It's reaching a bit but for a good cause. ;-)
It's an RPG, no? There's literally nothing stopping you from getting the Gerudo clothing and playing the rest of the game with it on. As such, you could argue that the Link in that playthrough enjoyed being a woman more than being a man, and therefore became aware of their trans nature throughout the playthrough. It's the type of story the player has to make up as they play the game, but it isn't "reaching" to suggest that some people will see Link in that way.
Slammin_Hammon
Member
I took the Horizon character's comment about, "not being one of your sisters" as more of a commentary on the different places that women hold in Carja and Nora cultures than an indication of gender identity.
Leatherface
Member
Agree. ugh.
Chezzymann
Member
And then if you go inside and talk to some NPCs they'll say "wait aren't you a boy?" And then he gets all freaked out as if he was caught. I'm pretty sure it was obviously just supposed to be a joke and nothing else.
the weird thing is in Nora culture, women hold dominance.
RichiRamjag
Member
That's exactly what it is though. Switching clothes doesn't make you trans.
Then your "rule" is nothing but useless semantic quibbling. If the vast majority of American people are not OK with making jokes about the Sandy Hook shooting, then that joke is effectively "not OK." If the vast majority of American people are not okay with making jokes comparing black people to apes, then that joke is effectively "not OK." Legal interpretations of "free speech" have no relevance here.
Your "rule" is absolutely meaningless.
What the absolute fuck are you on about?
He might just be dedicated to the art of role play. Link's real passion is acting, not world saving.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Who, Link? Only four people know Link's gender in Gerudo City, and none of them throw her out. It's only when Link is not in Gerudo vai clothing that this happens (and only while in town).
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I mean, it's not like any of the sidequest characters really reveal anything about themselves in the game anyway. Of course, I just watched LOTR again and I just look at that character as part of the same trope that Eowyn represents, so maybe that example is just on my mind.
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