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Playtonic removes JonTron from Yooka-Laylee.

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Codeblue

Member
Yes it is.

While I think Playtonic made the right decision, they could have removed the advertising with JonTron. JonTron is a douche no question, but just because Home Alone 2 has Trump in doesn't mean I'm going to stop watching it. It would be the their loss if they're boycotting it over that pathetic reason.

Buying a game with a character who's voiced by a dickhead doesn't mean I support his views. Grow up.

I think we get away from the fact that racism is actually hurtful and not just a politically incorrect thing to call out. Just on an emotional level, telling someone that they're diluting your gene pool and that they don't belong sucks. It's upsetting. It's one thing when JonTron insults me based on my skin, but the awful feeling I get when I see the rest of the world ignore it or nod along is on a different level. It's basically telling me that, even if they don't agree with him, they don't care about me or people like me enough to dissociate themselves with a white supremacist.

I think boycotting products that actively advocate, or in this case, would have pretended like it didn't matter, is totally reasonable. Including him in the game would not have been an insignificant action. JonTron is not that goofy guy who does Youtube videos, he's a racist, and knowingly including him in the product is, and should be, alienating. If you're ok with people pretending like he never said the vile things he did, then that's on you, but don't judge me because I won't be part of his normalization.
 

joe2187

Banned
Destiny wanted to prove him wrong on the internet, that would only get JonTron flustered and double down. You don't confront a drug seller in front of a police officer by taking his weed and flaunting it around to get him arrested. Well, at least you shouldn't if you don't want him in jail.

But yeah, if he doesn't want to learn that is on him and him only. Its clear he was not prepared for that debate and he said irredemable stupid stuff he backed up with the first results he got from a google search. He was trying to win an internet argument and got his ass kicked because he has no idea was he is talking about.

Maybe he just needs better friends. It is true what they said about the kind of guy you are by the people you surround yourself with.

What is your goal here?

Firs you say the community shouldnt ostracize him and educate him...and when they do offer to educate him and help him....he doubles down on vommiting garbage all over the stream and then again in his "Apology" video.

So now you're saying we should still give him the benefit of the doubt because he wasn't propperly prepped to defend himself? what is there to defend....he said exactly what he believed and there's nothing else he could have said in any different way to make it sound any less terrible.
 

Breads

Banned
You can be a jovial fun loving game guy YouTuber and not be a shithead, by the way. It sucks that so many of these people have revealed themselves to be shitheads, but there are still those out there who make fun videos and also don't think Mexicans are going to take over the US. Griffin & Justin McElroy and the rest of the Polygon crew comes to mind. The Giant Bomb Duders. The Best Friends. Hell, even Dunkey. I've heard good things about the post-Jonathan Tronathan Game Grumps. You don't have to stand for this shit and still get quality funny content.

I feel like the response the McElroy Brothers gave to a question in a recent interview is pertinent here. You don't have double down on being an asshole when someone criticizes something shitty you said.
PfTV5vf.png

Source: https://www.tvinsider.com/125590/mcelroy-brothers-answer-my-brother-my-brother-and-me-questions/

This isn't specific to JonTron per se, but if half the dudes making shitty statements on the internet, even if it was only ever intended as a joke, chose to act like that instead of doubling down, the internet would be a far nicer place. Maybe JonTron wouldn't have gone on a tirade at that guy who didn't like him saying the word "retard" all the time. Maybe Colin Moriarty would still be working with his friends. Maybe PewDiePie would still have his deal with Disney.

This post almost killed me. When you mentioned SBFP, giant bomb, and the Mcelroy brothers I thought I was about to be schooled on some heinous shit. These guys along with precious few others is all I have left when it comes to youtube.

Luckily it was all in a positive note.
 

SomTervo

Member
New title for a Jontron OT.

Jontron I OT I Aryan Resurrection

Much better than Jontron |OT| Aryans

But I guess a more accurate title would be

Jontron |OT| Aryan: Isolation

You can be a jovial fun loving game guy YouTuber and not be a shithead, by the way. It sucks that so many of these people have revealed themselves to be shitheads, but there are still those out there who make fun videos and also don't think Mexicans are going to take over the US. Griffin & Justin McElroy and the rest of the Polygon crew comes to mind. The Giant Bomb Duders. The Best Friends. Hell, even Dunkey. I've heard good things about the post-Jonathan Tronathan Game Grumps. You don't have to stand for this shit and still get quality funny content.

I feel like the response the McElroy Brothers gave to a question in a recent interview is pertinent here. You don't have double down on being an asshole when someone criticizes something shitty you said.
PfTV5vf.png

Source: https://www.tvinsider.com/125590/mcelroy-brothers-answer-my-brother-my-brother-and-me-questions/

This isn't specific to JonTron per se, but if half the dudes making shitty statements on the internet, even if it was only ever intended as a joke, chose to act like that instead of doubling down, the internet would be a far nicer place. Maybe JonTron wouldn't have gone on a tirade at that guy who didn't like him saying the word "retard" all the time. Maybe Colin Moriarty would still be working with his friends. Maybe PewDiePie would still have his deal with Disney.

Yeah it takes some self-awareness and self-confidence (and a lot of practice) to put your hands up and admit your wrong, or to sincerely apologise. I guess I'm laterally saying none of these guys like JonTron have that.

It doesn't seem like he is anymore

ctm1bwyuaaawndlcgunl.png

Seems like such a bitter person. Sad, really.
Sad!
 

Busaiku

Member
I subscribe to the following gaming-related Youtubers:

Ashens
Austin Evans
Beta64
DidYouKnowGaming
Emma Blackery
GameXplain
Gaming Historian
Jim Sterling
Kim Justice
Larry Bundy Jr
Lazy Game Reviews
Lord Karnage
Nostalgia Nerd
pannenkoek2012 (and his other channel, UncommentatedPannen)
ThatOneShowFUN
The 8-bit Guy
The Easter Egg Hunter
Whatculture Gaming

Thus far, I don't believe any of those have revealed themselves to be shitheads (please inform me if they do).
DidYouKnowGaming is under Jontron's umbrella.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Call me naive, but I believe people can change for the better. I like Jontron's content but I honestly think what he said was horrible and stupid, specially if he truly believes that. He deserves all the shit thrown at him.

On the other hand, instead of ostracizing him from the community, a community in that he is a very big deal even now, proven by how much media attention this whole thing gave him, his friends and even his community should aspire to educate him and show him better. I don't agree with the notion that shitheads can't stop been shitheads. Some can't, of course, but I think everyone deserves a second chance if they are willing to take it.

A good example is Jim Sterling as mentioned above, he changed his mind and now he is a poster boy for favorable discussion when it comes to sexism in the gaming community. What is not to say Jon can be talked and educated to realize the errors of his ways.

I am not defending him and I sure as hell not supporting him, he is not my personal friend and I know of him are the hours I dedicated to listening to his content, but I think we all have know people who had terrible notions. At least personally I have been able to educate a few of them and be able to change their perspective, even a little bit helps.

But it really depends on him I guess and only time will tell. His response video was a non-apology for sure but that is the obvious course of action when you have fucked up so badly. I won't be surprised if we see a real apology down the line when things have calmed down and the eye is not on him, so he can really let it sink in.

America is all kinds of fucked up right now and its really hard to know who to trust, and if there is something I know is that people usually trust those who are nicer to them, even if they are huge assholes to everyone else. Its hard to see in the bigger scope of things and its hard to relate to those who have it worst than you if you don't make an effort to see them or be there.

The internet makes it specially easy to lose yourself in a single, tailored for you, mentality. And it makes you lose empathy. If something sounds weird you erase it away. If something sounds good you can find more of it, even if its not true. Its funny how the world of possibilities brought fort by the internet is so overwhelming that its just easier to find a nice, warm echo chamber and rest in it.

As a fan of Jontron's work I hope he is able to realize how much he fucked up and why and how much his ignorance has an effect in people, and I hope he has close friends that can and want to talk with him and sort it all, but of course, this is all in an ideal world. He should realize his viewpoint is wrong and misinformed, and he should keep on doing videos, because they are funny and I am one of those people that can divorce their work from their personal opinions.

And this is too long.
JonTron has had several outbursts already.
His friends already reached to him several times.
He even had a debate with someone that had rational arguments.


Guess what, none of that cured JonTron. He's still an asshole.
 

BlackAlbatross

Neo Member
The only youtube channel I pay any attention to is James Rolfe and company, basically because I've been watching him since the early ANN videos. Those guys are OK, yeah? I mean Mike is a little...let's just say he's not exactly an intellectual but that's OK, he seems friendly and stuff,.
I don't really watch stuff on Cinemassacre other than AVGN and some occasional James & Mike Play, but I seem to remember that one of the guys who does the videos with Mike is a gamergate supporter (I think it was mentioned here on gaf some time ago, but I could be wrong).
 

Gestault

Member
Yes it is.

While I think Playtonic made the right decision, they could have removed the advertising with JonTron. JonTron is a douche no question, but just because Home Alone 2 has Trump in doesn't mean I'm going to stop watching it. It would be the their loss if they're boycotting it over that pathetic reason.

Buying a game with a character who's voiced by a dickhead doesn't mean I support his views. Grow up.

I guess here's where we may differ: Is the product worse for not having the celebrity voice cameo? He's not in there because he's a professional voice-actor; he has a well-known love of the game's spiritual precursors. It was sort of an honorary thing.

This is a situation where the devs/publishers didn't want to associate with his advocacy for white supremacy in American politics. So they pulled his part, and said as much. Even if your morning bagel being made by someone with messed up views on [whatever] doesn't matter in the end, it seems like you're objecting to the company having made this choice on their own.
 

Gator86

Member
The internet at large (Twitter, Reddit, GameFAQs, YouTube, etc) is filled with people who absolutely hate us. They think we're SJWs, or a vocal minority, or Sony shills, or anything they need to fit their narrative. When they want to insist something is not as it is, they pin everything on NeoGAF.

I can't tell you how many times I've been on a gaming subreddit or a Twitter thread or something and seen people pissed because NeoGAF is ruining something. Or they got banned "for having an opinion."

When I was banned briefly, I took it really hard because I felt lumped in with the same people who were banned from GAF for being pedantic racists or narcissistic misogynists. It made me never want to get banned again. Hanging out on Reddit for two weeks is a fate worse than death. Just kill me next time.

There was a Sony account that was active last year called "lolNeoGAF" that only existed to send hate mail to GAF members. It's probably been banned by now. I got hate mail for calling GamerGaters terrorists. Some people hate NeoGAF so much that they just lurk here and read what we're saying and seethe and moan about how terrible we are.

There's probably a thread about us on KIA right now.

I find this hilarious. GJ to the mods keeping the trash out.
 

SOLDIER

Member
People asking for YouTube channel recommendations and no one is mentioning TheSw1tcher?

For shame. I pretty much purge all TV to just watch them all day.
 

Mahonay

Banned
The internet at large (Twitter, Reddit, GameFAQs, YouTube, etc) is filled with people who absolutely hate us. They think we're SJWs, or a vocal minority, or Sony shills, or anything they need to fit their narrative. When they want to insist something is not as it is, they pin everything on NeoGAF.

I can't tell you how many times I've been on a gaming subreddit or a Twitter thread or something and seen people pissed because NeoGAF is ruining something. Or they got banned "for having an opinion."

When I was banned briefly, I took it really hard because I felt lumped in with the same people who were banned from GAF for being pedantic racists or narcissistic misogynists. It made me never want to get banned again. Hanging out on Reddit for two weeks is a fate worse than death. Just kill me next time.

There was a Sony account that was active last year called "lolNeoGAF" that only existed to send hate mail to GAF members. It's probably been banned by now. I got hate mail for calling GamerGaters terrorists. Some people hate NeoGAF so much that they just lurk here and read what we're saying and seethe and moan about how terrible we are.

There's probably a thread about us on KIA right now.
I once got an anonymous PSN message from a Trump Supporter who tried to make me feel guilty for us calling out people on NeoGAF for their Alt-Right views. The person wouldn't reveal who they were.
 

Bastables

Member
It was super unnerving at first but it seemed like it was just some teenager. He went quiet pretty quickly after I gave him some pretty clear and simple explanations.
That's what's creepy right that their unhinged enough to do such a weirdo plan to try and scare off dissent against their racist world views.
 

Seik

Banned
Yeah it takes some self-awareness and self-confidence (and a lot of practice) to put your hands up and admit your wrong, or to sincerely apologise. I guess I'm laterally saying none of these guys like JonTron have that.

I'll tell a little anecdote here but I may be in a minority of people. Not one for which I'm proud of though... The point I want to make is that you don't necessarily needs practice or anything to just not being an asshole. A single bad experience and a bit of empathy does wonder.

Back then when I was a uneducated young teen, I was always saying shit like ''That's gay.''.

Then came the inevitable experience of saying it in front of another young lad with a group of friends of mine who told me he was actually gay after I said it, I felt soooo fucking bad. I went to him and said that I was sorry to no end and that I wouldn't do this ever again. He gave me a good laugh and said it was totally fine and that I wasn't the only one from which he heard that, but one of the few that actually apologized afterwards.

A very humbling experience, we now are good buddies, and we often use the term 'fag' because of that South Park episode with Bikers when we're being a jerk to one another. :lol

EDIT: Another point would be that Jon is not hopeless, I mean, he was put on blast by a lot of people, media, got cancelled from a game made by some of his favorite devs. At some point, if he's not an absolute asshole, he may come to some realization that he's been acting like a jerk this whole time. I'm not saying it will happen, but who knows. He's an adult, compared to my example, so he may be stuck with that shameful mindset.
 

Mahonay

Banned
That's what's creepy right that their unhinged enough to do such a weirdo plan to try and scare off dissent against their racist world views.
The person seem to be of the mind we were just a bunch of elitist assholes making people feel bad for their "different views". I think one of the reasons it was an anonymous PSN message because he was too embarrassed to admit his feelings were legitimately hurt.
 

drotahorror

Member
Too bad no matter what Playtronic does, the game looks lifeless. It just seems like it's missing a bit of charm from the 90's 3D platformers it's likening itself to. I was excited for it but the more videos that have been released, which I think started around January of this year, I have lost faith. Hopefully they can prove me wrong though, would love a good return to form of the old gen.
 

Bastables

Member
The person seem to be of the mind we were just a bunch of elitist assholes making people feel bad for their "different views". I think one of the reasons it was an anonymous PSN message because he was too embarrassed to admit his feelings were legitimately hurt.
I like how holding anti racist views are now "elitist", that compassion and empathy should be restricted to a few. Real charmers on every level.
 
I still remember Jon saying the n word over and over in Game Grumps Sonic '06 LP. Signs were there.

I haven't watched GG recently, have they weighed in on this at all?
 
Lol, a producer is going to alienate most consumers because NeoGAF is somehow more important that the general public.

He should stick to wearing diapers.

Yep, fool doesn't know what he's talking about.

The thread mentioned the YL voice over super briefly. There was barely any pressure from this or any other community, Playtonic got ahead of it and made the decision themseleves.

Whiny butthurt jackass, at least he's on open display with his impotent anger making himself look like an even bigger fool than he already is.
 
because yuk yuk SJW hivemind or some dumb bullshit like that

I mean, I can sort of see it, as this is about a video game, but I keep seeing people raging about GAF on YouTube and Twitch about things that are completely unrelated to gaming. Like, it boggles my mind why people take such offense.
 

Armaros

Member
Why does everyone care so fucking much about what NeoGAF in particular thinks?

Because we have moderation standards and just about all other major gaming communities don't. Also we were one of the major communities that rejected GG while most big communities embraced it. See all the alt accounts doing suicide drivebys in GG and the recent johntron threads.
 
It's also incredibly ironic that people like Jafari talk about the left needing to listen and talk to them, when at the same time, they are the ones shutting down any conversation with talk of "fake news" and "you get all your information from the wrong source".

Because we have moderation standards and just about all other major gaming communities don't. Also we were one of the major communities that rejected GG while most big communities embraced it. See all the alt accounts doing suicide drivebys in GG and the recent johntron threads.

Still doesn't make sense to me. It really doesn't.
 
Why does everyone care so fucking much about what NeoGAF in particular thinks?

They are all bitter shit heels that they were banned from here and are salty as fuck, and like to show how little they care about NeoGAF by constantly talking about NeoGAF and monitoring everything that happens on NeoGAF to an obsessive degree.
 
I still remember Jon saying the n word over and over in Game Grumps Sonic '06 LP. Signs were there.

I haven't watched GG recently, have they weighed in on this at all?


Not that I'm aware of... Kind of a cult of silence that's fallen a lot of YouTubers. PBG has made a few statements, and his feud with JT is pretty public knowledge at this point... But most are either defending him, or covering their ears and pretending they aren't in any way involved.

I wouldn't doubt there are still some contracts in play that prevent a lot of these people from talking ill about each other.
 
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