Jonneh3003
Banned
Yes, they're Easy Allies now.
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[redacted] Hollow Knight
- Thread starter Nzyme32
- Start date
The Wheel of Fortune
Member
This looks right up my alley-- will check it out when it comes out PS4, hope it's this year!
I somehow doubt that...
TheSpaceBetween
Member
It was surpassed by SOtN years ago. And then by Metroid Fusion. A lot of games have surpassed it. I can't wait to try out Hollow Knight though. Bottom line is though, none of those games would exist as we know them without Super Metroid, and without Metroid before it. That is it's legacy.
DapperSloth
Member
If this is a Metroidvania but with Dark Souls-difficulty then no. It will not top Super Metroid for me.
The beauty with Super Metroid is that it is challenging but never hard, something Dark Souls is. With Super Metroid, you never have to redo an area/enemy/boss multiple times and get frustrated.
I don't like that developers are adding "Dark Souls"-esque things to 2D games nowadays. I like hard but not HARD. I want to play the game, enjoy the scenery, art, music and combat without having to redo certain things 100 times, then it is not enjoyable.
I like how it looks though and 2D-games are always nice, but I will give it a pass sadly. Same with Hyper Light Drifter and Salt & Sanctuary (which looks amazing, but I don't want to be stuck on the 1st level pulling my hair out thank you very much), which is a shame. I am also a completionist so I could never see myself even 100% these games like I did with Axiom Verge and all the other Metroid-games.
The beauty with Super Metroid is that it is challenging but never hard, something Dark Souls is. With Super Metroid, you never have to redo an area/enemy/boss multiple times and get frustrated.
I don't like that developers are adding "Dark Souls"-esque things to 2D games nowadays. I like hard but not HARD. I want to play the game, enjoy the scenery, art, music and combat without having to redo certain things 100 times, then it is not enjoyable.
I like how it looks though and 2D-games are always nice, but I will give it a pass sadly. Same with Hyper Light Drifter and Salt & Sanctuary (which looks amazing, but I don't want to be stuck on the 1st level pulling my hair out thank you very much), which is a shame. I am also a completionist so I could never see myself even 100% these games like I did with Axiom Verge and all the other Metroid-games.
lastrealgameralive
Member
The game looks cool, but ". . . it surpasses Super Metroid in almost every aspect." is ridiculous. I'll have to play this game 10 years from now in hopes that by then I will have completely forgotten reading that statement.
blame space
Banned
I played the first level and I don't even see how they are the same genre.
I've never played Super Metroid properly, but Hollow Knight is certainly one of my favourite games of 2017 so far; perhaps my number one favourite. I called it a day with around 86% completion in about 35 hours.
It's a much more visually diverse game than people sometimes assume, too:
Hollow Knight doesn't have "levels". It's an open, interconnected world in the vein of many other Metroidvanias.
It's a much more visually diverse game than people sometimes assume, too:
Hollow Knight doesn't have "levels". It's an open, interconnected world in the vein of many other Metroidvanias.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Nothing surpasses Super Metroid.
HK can't come soon enough to the Switch. I'm very excited to play it. I honestly don't understand the complaints about the art style. It's a very striking and impressive-looking game.
As an aside, I love metroidvanias but I've never actually played through Super Metroid. I should probably do that. Doubt it'll dethrone my favorite though.
As an aside, I love metroidvanias but I've never actually played through Super Metroid. I should probably do that. Doubt it'll dethrone my favorite though.
I feel the same way regarding the Souls comparisons. The moment I saw Hollow Knight I thought it looked fantastic. I love the art style and I love Metroidvanias, but even the trailer had me worried about difficulty. Now hearing comparisons to Souls (comparisons which should be used sparingly and only when actually applicable, because if it's not actually Souls hard I might like it) I just don't know if I'll bother. I prefer my masocore in short-form like Super Meat Boy and 1001 Spikes where dying only sets me back a few seconds to a minute.
The optional content can be difficult, yes but I wouldn't describe the critical path as being anywhere near Dark Souls difficulty (or even Salt and Sanctuary). In fact, it actually starts out fairly easy (which was an initial complaint of mine until the difficulty ramps up).
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Combat and areas look basic when the video in question has seemingly only scratched 5% of the surface, if not less.
Magic gives you more flexibility and damage than melee if you know how to use your tools correctly. Healing on-demand is strong, but there are clear moments where it'll easily get you in trouble if applied carelessly due to the intentional delay with winding it up as well as recovering from channelling it afterwards. I've seen plenty of players on streams stubbornly trying to ignore this balancing act when put under pressure, so they end up taking more damage than they can restore and then wonder (if not blame the game outright) why they're struggling to make progress. Neglecting magic-based offense is not a smart idea, since utilizing it creates safe opening for healing, especially during boss fights.
You also receive oodles of essence / Soul to support this anyways, so sitting on it until you can refill your health pool is a waste.
More than half the content in Hollow Knight is optional.
How astute of you to know in advance the entirety of Hollow Knight looks like this.
Therein lies the problem: you've heard little of it. Hollow Knight goes for a more subdued approach in its composition, one of many aspects where the both of them feel like opposites. Both games have great soundtracks with pronounced melodies, but it sounds to me that Ori's (by far) more bombastic approach is closer to your personal preferences.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
You're overblowing the supposed difficulty of the Dark Souls games given how many lenient methods exist to overcome it, much like how the OP is being mildly hyperbolic with the influences Hollow Knight carries from Dark Souls. That's ignoring that this series was always a Metroidvania in 3D (done right) deep-down inside, but that's another discussion entirely.
That said, when looked at separately Hollow Knight isn't super-tough either. Has the right amount of challenge, but it's not overwhelming in how it pushes back.
I've been burned with this claim (better than Metroid, ect) so many times before that I have come to question whether I actually like Metroidvania games or just Metroid and Castlevania. While I can't get enough of the latter, I've yet to really get into another of the former despite owning pretty much all of them: Guacamele, Axiom Verge, Ori, that forgettable xbox one of which I have forgotten the title, and many others. Really the only game of this type I have enjoyed since a Metroid or Castlevania is Blaster Master Zero, which I am currently playing, and even that pales in comparison to the best Metroids and Castlevanias in my opinion.
I will still buy this on Switch immediately despite its unappealing graphics and lack of color.
I will still buy this on Switch immediately despite its unappealing graphics and lack of color.
Neoleo2143
Member
HK can't come soon enough to the Switch. I'm very excited to play it. I honestly don't understand the complaints about the art style. It's a very striking and impressive-looking game.
As an aside, I love metroidvanias but I've never actually played through Super Metroid. I should probably do that. Doubt it'll dethrone my favorite though.
The Jump and weapon switch perhaps is the only thing that'll feel off, but everything else about Super Metroid still holds up as the gold Standard for Metroid-like design all these years later.
Metroid Like design is different from Metroidvania because of progression being solely tied to exploration.
I'm basing my opinion on the difficulty of Souls games with my 3-5 hours of Bloodborne which ended with my being hopelessly stuck at one of the first checkpoints in the game. I got tired of throwing myself against a brick wall repeatedly and haven't played it again since.
If people are really exaggerating about Hollow Knight's difficulty then it could easily be chalked up to Souls comparisons being used all-too-lightly, but that wall of gifs above suggests a certain bullet-hell-like nature to the game.
C'mon now, I posted about this like 6 replies above you.
Critical path isn't 30-40 hours. Speedrunners are completing the game in less than an hour.
I must have completed that game over 50 times.
It's a masterpiece in game design. Took me until probably my 3rd play through to start to appreciate its genius.
TheJollyCorner
Member
No, 12-15. Around 30 if you want to uncover all the secrets/items/magic/etc.
Rickenslacker
Banned
It's about the length that it took me to get all I wanted out of the game.
But this includes exploring all the nooks and crannies, getting all the upgrades and items, and delving into optional things. For a crit path playthrough I imagine it being under 20.
The only thing remotely Dark Souls about this game is, I dunno, the mood and some themes. It is not a game centered around challenge.
HellBlazer
Member
It's not Dark Souls hard. The Dark Souls influence comes from the style of exploration, the way the lore is presented, and some game mechanics, not so much from the difficulty. It can certainly be challenging, sure, but it's not a game focused on extreme difficulty.
Anyway, OP is right, the game is fantastic. I won't necessarily say it's better than Super Metroid or SotN because those are absolute classics and it comes down to individual preferences (and nostalgia is some cases), but I'd definitely recommend that everyone interested in the genre give it a shot.
Thanks, I'm looking forward to playing it.
jim2point0
Banned
That is straight nonsense. That's one of my favorite things about the game. It's flippin BEAUTIFUL.
The pacing is just fine. There's a TON of content in the game. A lot of which is optional, but because the game is so good you just wind up doing everything possible before finishing it in order to make it last longer.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Bloodborne is admittedly a belligerent game from the get-go compared to the more grounded, methodical nature of the Souls games - sans 3, which places itself squarely in the middle - but I wouldn't place Hollow Knight in either ballpark. There are several spots of optional content later in the game that are specifically designed to be more challenging and action-centric (like the area in this .gif) than the norm, but though I wouldn't go so far as to call them 'bullet hell' either PLUS the majority of Hollow Knight allows for more breathing room. That's excluding talk about various luxuries that generously help you out, like healing not being tied to bonfires or your character actually boasting (airborne) mobility.
You're right on the money that Souls comparisons are being used too lightly these days, in other words.
Jawbreaker
Member
Welp, just purchased this based on the thread. It was on my radar, but I'm in the mood for a good Metroidvania right now after wrapping up Horizon Zero Dawn.
And it was literally that post which led me to make that statement. Each new zone being a different Black & _____ is not my idea of colorful. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the game looks that horrible, but the flatness of the colors is a huge turnoff for someone coming from a sprite-based background.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
I'm interested in more Metroidvania, but I'm really not digging the character design.
basic_element
Member
Character design makes it a no go for me. Are you supposed to be a bunny or something? And fighting insects and other bunnies is not very appealing.
The Illiterati
Member
It's a beetle skull. No bunnies in the game. The game has cuter characters than Ori, IMO. Someone get Oni Barbuary(sp?) in here with some grub gifs!
I quite liked super Metroid much more than fusion. The whole hand holding and linearity of fusion loses me a bit. And the atmosphere on super is way better thanks to the sound.
SupraDarky
Member
Hollow Knight is truly an amazing game. I actually wasn't a fan of the art style at first, but playing it showed me its variety and its great attention to details. I definitely felt a Dark Souls vibe and the amount of content, including unmatched enemy variety, made the 30+ hours a joy to play through. The music is also very good (listening to City of Tears on YT doesn't do it justice, and it's a different version from the game).
I played all the popular Metroidvanias, but this and Environmental Station Alpha are my favorites that are not Super Metroid. And in some aspects, they surpass it.
I played all the popular Metroidvanias, but this and Environmental Station Alpha are my favorites that are not Super Metroid. And in some aspects, they surpass it.
GravityMan
Member
Hollow Knight looks interesting enough that I've added it to my Steam wishlist, and will maybe buy it later this year. Environments look great, but I'm not digging the character or enemy designs. Judging from an early-game gameplay video I watched, it looks fun, but I'm not really seeing anything that makes it stand out quality-wise from the pack of other good, solid indie "metroidvanias" (Guacamelee, Valdis Story, Axiom Verge, etc). Which means that I doubt Hollow Knight will come anywhere close to truly outstanding games like Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion, Symphony of the Night, Circle of the Moon and Aria of Sorrow. Those games have interesting, captivating worlds...whereas the worlds in most indie metroidvanias (even the ones with good level design) are rather forgettable. It takes more than a distinctive and/or pretty art style to make a world feel fascinating.
In terms of atmosphere, Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight is the only game of this kind that I've played that manages to come close to Super Metroid, Fusion, and SotN. (But Momodora falls well short in some other key areas.)
In terms of atmosphere, Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight is the only game of this kind that I've played that manages to come close to Super Metroid, Fusion, and SotN. (But Momodora falls well short in some other key areas.)
bodine1231
Member
I thought the same as you but I just purchased this and played about an hour and you really need to see it in motion. Everything moves and animates beautifully,reminds me alot of Ori in that stills and videos don't do the art style justice. Really really enjoying it so far.
Yeah, I think that track is handled dynamically. More choral elements enter depending on where you're at in the level. I'd love to hear a fuller version but I imagine the rain effects would make it impossible to rip.
Love your YT channel, btw.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
My favorite is Guacamelee.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
I still need to play the sneak peak from humble monthly. You better not be lying op I'll fight you in the Steam thread.
Super Metroid is one of the best games ever so if this is even close it should be great.
Super Metroid is one of the best games ever so if this is even close it should be great.
Rickenslacker
Banned
All the folks not feelin' the art of the game is tearing at my heart. The game's gorgeous.
Op is Joking.
I mean it is a good game.
But saying something like that means that you don't understand metroid.
First the music in the game doesnt come close to metroid
Second the Art is almost the same thing over the whole world. It also doesnt give the immersive feeling of what super metroid does.
In terms of gameplay, this one comes closer to castlevania sotn than metroid.
Metroid still have much more gameplay to it.
So no.
I mean it is a good game.
But saying something like that means that you don't understand metroid.
First the music in the game doesnt come close to metroid
Second the Art is almost the same thing over the whole world. It also doesnt give the immersive feeling of what super metroid does.
In terms of gameplay, this one comes closer to castlevania sotn than metroid.
Metroid still have much more gameplay to it.
So no.
Axispowers
Member
Let's god switch! Hurry it up!