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NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
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Got a reply from the friend who works in the same office where they did the italian translation.
She talked with someone who handled it about the whole **** question and he said to her that it is in fact "kill" in the english version but it's also interchangeable with fuck since canon-wise they share the same meaning, and it is deliberately left ambiguous-
They went with fuck in the italian version because words for fuck and kill are different lenghts.
Of course this is from a translation of a translation of the japanese script, and i'm not even 100% of the girl i asked to, but i hope this helps clarifing a little bit.
She talked with someone who handled it about the whole **** question and he said to her that it is in fact "kill" in the english version but it's also interchangeable with fuck since canon-wise they share the same meaning, and it is deliberately left ambiguous-
They went with fuck in the italian version because words for fuck and kill are different lenghts.
Of course this is from a translation of a translation of the japanese script, and i'm not even 100% of the girl i asked to, but i hope this helps clarifing a little bit.
Thanks for the insider info, it's cool to know how translators work. While we argue about words that fit into 4 letters Italians just straight up went for a particular meaning.
Are there any other traslations? And do anyone know how it is spelled in japanise?
I feel so shitty that i kept flipping Devola and Popola the bird, convinced they'd turn out to be evil and behind it all, but getting their story at the end made me feel like such a piece of shit by the time i finally got my last ending. I kept expecting them to pop out and cheese me off, but they were honest and true and good people. That was such a big reversal for me as a fan of the first game. Bravo yoko taro!
(Oh, and thanks for maintaining my custom control and camera settings after ending e. I guess it isn't all cruelty...)
Oh yeah i got Ending E the first time I did Ending D. I didnt have to beat it three times to get it like the guides say. I had close to 100% completion in most of the game, and when i picked ending c the first time i backed off my choice of A2 and reselected her, then i did chapter select and picked 9S and got both D and E despite only getting C prior.
Tl;dr: i picked C, then D, then got E right away without having to beat the last fight again. Is that normal?
Is there something with completion that can cause ending E to trigger without beating the game a third time? If the trigger isnt 3 times doing that fight, and theres actually an optional way to unlock it more smoothly, that'd be really great!
(I did the erase, so i cant see if i like Ending E off of C more than D...because D is longer and more standalone and C is abrupt and has you destroy the tower and has the pods carry 9S off anyways, i think thatd be my preferred order. I might try doing less sidequests until my 4th ending next time i play the game, since i kind of crippled my momentum doing all those awesome sidequests and completely one shotted adam and eve...really curious to see if those fights are better on a lower level 2B...)
but yeah, are the guides just outdated on unlocking ending E?
(Oh, and thanks for maintaining my custom control and camera settings after ending e. I guess it isn't all cruelty...)
Oh yeah i got Ending E the first time I did Ending D. I didnt have to beat it three times to get it like the guides say. I had close to 100% completion in most of the game, and when i picked ending c the first time i backed off my choice of A2 and reselected her, then i did chapter select and picked 9S and got both D and E despite only getting C prior.
Tl;dr: i picked C, then D, then got E right away without having to beat the last fight again. Is that normal?
Is there something with completion that can cause ending E to trigger without beating the game a third time? If the trigger isnt 3 times doing that fight, and theres actually an optional way to unlock it more smoothly, that'd be really great!
(I did the erase, so i cant see if i like Ending E off of C more than D...because D is longer and more standalone and C is abrupt and has you destroy the tower and has the pods carry 9S off anyways, i think thatd be my preferred order. I might try doing less sidequests until my 4th ending next time i play the game, since i kind of crippled my momentum doing all those awesome sidequests and completely one shotted adam and eve...really curious to see if those fights are better on a lower level 2B...)
but yeah, are the guides just outdated on unlocking ending E?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
How do you mean. As soon as the tower appears in the world its a sign that the machines have fully infiltrated the bunker (the backdoor has been opened by 9S prior to fighting Eve) and acquired all relevant data.
The Network shows all this stuff to 9S, and later A2 in the library, in order to show them how futile their fight is.
The key point is that the document specifically mentions a next generation of combat models, and that the fall of the bunker is a planned event. Meaning that a second set of orbital satellites is likely alreadey in place, and by extension another lunar relay serving it to maintain the charade.
Its almost like the old sheepdog and wolf cartoons, its the machine's turn to get a "win" this cycle, but its just another day at the office. The key thing is that both sides are in on the "joke".
muetimueti
Neo Member
It's 「お前は2Bを......△※したいと、思ってるんだろう？」 in Japanese, and while 「△※したい」 could basically mean anything - given the malleability of the Japanese language - people generally arrive at the same conclusions as in the West.
They both say that the attack on the bunker was planned by the androids, and that they were all planned to be disposed of. The only difference between the documents is that the first says combat data will be given to a new group of androids, whilst the second only talks about collecting combat data. They are word for word identical other than that superfluous difference, but the first gets zero reaction from 9S whilst the second changes his entire worldview.
That's a continuity error if I've ever seen one.
Hm, I think their point is that they show the same information to 9S twice, and the second time is supposed to be a big reveal. I don't believe the red girls ever tell A2 about yorha disposal until 9S blurts it out during their showdown (ofc she might already know everything from the pearl harbour descent). I think what she reads in the library is about how the tower is a cannon.
Maybe i'm misreading you though.
So then the conclusion is that we shouldn't try to investigate different translations and stick to originally intended ambiguity.
It's not that they simply went straight with it, it's just that there are no words for both fuck and kill that have the same number of letters in italian. I guess they simply went for the most logical one, although they lost all the ambiguity of it beacuse in the italian version there is a "with" after the asterisks that reveals it all.
They even tease you about their alignment, when they come helping at the tower and the camera shots with them weapons in arms similar to the first NieR, i went "oh they are making me fight them again?".
I know, i just felt obligated to shed some light on it because my version was so blatantly obvious about it.
I don't remember the death of all YoRHa mentioned in the earlier reveal. I just remember 9S finding out that humanity was extinct.
The way I see it, the end reveal just pushes him over the edge. He can cope with humanity's extinction as long as he can fight for something else, but knowing that everything he's fought for is meaningless drives him insane.
The way I see it, the end reveal just pushes him over the edge. He can cope with humanity's extinction as long as he can fight for something else, but knowing that everything he's fought for is meaningless drives him insane.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
A2 is given the book describing her role in the proceedings in the library; but we don't get to see its exact contents. This, combined with her consistently hostile view to "command" infers she has a very complete picture of what's actually going on.
Not sure I get the two versions of the "black box" document thing though... I deleted my original 100% save and am only nearing the end of Route A on my full replay so can't really verify with anything other than the wiki.
My point was that giving 9S the information that he was just used as a pawn to trigger the black box is just N2 messing with his head in order to gather more data about the android's mentality. Meat box = combat data, Soul Box = intelligence data, God Box = world/scenario data.
Edit: Looking at the two documents they say the exact same thing in different words. The key point is that the falsification of mankinds extinction only matters insofar as that the androids remain oblivious. Which is why A2 must also be eliminated along with all the current generation of YoRHas. That the machine network knows this is irrelevent. They aren't going to reveal this because even if the androids were to believe them (big IF) it would simply remove them from the fight that is the reason for the machine's existence.
The fly in the ointment is that when (if) A2 wins, the tower is destroyed and this information gets recovered by the resistance. C, is the happiest ending in this regard as it breaks the cycle.
Baloonatic
Member
The story didn't resonate with me quite the same way the first game did but it was still pretty emotional at times.
Humans being extinct was something that had been in my head for a while before the reveal. I think it was down to having just those odd broadcasts from the moon while never seeing the humans.
There is some really tragic stuff towards the end and I really love some of the themes going on. The way the androids and machines are just stuck in this loop just so they had a purpose was really sad. The reason for 2B's attitude towards 9S was pretty dark especially when I thought back to the times in the game where she had to hold herself back from getting too friendly towards him.
I really liked the Devola and Popola stuff. Reading about what they went through because of the events of the first game was interesting to me. OH and like some people said, having them show up in front of you ready to fight only for them to help was such a great idea. I think the stuff that affected me the most emotionally was to do with Emil. Kaine's house and gradually working my way down to his was quite something.
Having a glimmer of hope at the end was nice, in my head it pays off.
So yeah, I liked it a lot. Maybe it's the characters or just the overall themes but I prefer the first game overall.
Humans being extinct was something that had been in my head for a while before the reveal. I think it was down to having just those odd broadcasts from the moon while never seeing the humans.
There is some really tragic stuff towards the end and I really love some of the themes going on. The way the androids and machines are just stuck in this loop just so they had a purpose was really sad. The reason for 2B's attitude towards 9S was pretty dark especially when I thought back to the times in the game where she had to hold herself back from getting too friendly towards him.
I really liked the Devola and Popola stuff. Reading about what they went through because of the events of the first game was interesting to me. OH and like some people said, having them show up in front of you ready to fight only for them to help was such a great idea. I think the stuff that affected me the most emotionally was to do with Emil. Kaine's house and gradually working my way down to his was quite something.
Having a glimmer of hope at the end was nice, in my head it pays off.
So yeah, I liked it a lot. Maybe it's the characters or just the overall themes but I prefer the first game overall.
I agree with you, this didn't have much impact for me. It doesn't really make me see things that happened in a different light.
I wonder why the pods gained consciousness so quickly, assuming that the pods are YorHa exclusive, and that YorHa is a recent creation. Asumming the forest king was one of the first machines to "wake up," that took thousands of years.
Weren't they rolling in new Yorha models, though? I thought Yohra got taken out because they were close to "winning" the war.
You can't leave the moon unprotected, wouldn't people suspect something is up and think it's all over?
Edit:
Yeah, this is what I was thinking.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
this is the best most concise explanation, and I'm sure of that cuz it has me all misty eyed just reflecting it.
So I recommend this post to anyone that missed what happened.
me too, hug is a 4 letter word right
just to add, the TOP SECRET documents mention that the backdoor is to be opened once they have collected enough combat data to be passed on to new models, destroying all evidence (including the document in the process). The moon base would remain to keep the human lie going so that the remaining androids would still have their "gods" to fight for.
Snakethesniper
Member
But what I don't understand , if I'm missing something, in this new cycle, where are the new androids? If the bunkers are destroyed, where are they manufactured?
Wherever they been making them for the last 9000 years.
We don't know where the older generation androids were built. Hell, we don't even know if the YoRHa models are actually made in the Bunkers or if they are merely shipped from somewhere else.
I think it was just an explanation for why she reacted in those two moments the way she did and why she breaks her "character" to him, because it was playing on the pain she felt for something she'd been forced to do in events before the game we never see and it fucked her up after the battle with eve.
I wished i'd done the two emile bosses in my playthrough but thats something i'll do eventually. I looked it up and it bums me out how emile's storyline in this game actually ends.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
yea, this is just the unecessary information they leave out. Its whoever built the current YoRHa, who we dont know. We do know that Jackass is looking for them, and she will find them, and she will kill them.
Ritzboof
Member
this is kinda what i mean to say, but im afraid to because theres info im not aware of. the bit with the commander does make the thing especially weird, and those deaths really were very convenient ones (especially considering the deaths scenes had a good level of emotion), which made the reveal feel weird and hollow
Yeah, that did need explaining. I think it's sort of a boring explanation though.I think it was just an explanation for why she reacted in those two moments the way she did and why she breaks her "character" to him, because it was playing on the pain she felt for something she'd been forced to do in events before the game we never see and it fucked her up after the battle with eve.
I wished i'd done the two emile bosses in my playthrough but thats something i'll do eventually. I looked it up and it bums me out how emile's storyline in this game actually ends.
I think why I'm not 100% satisfied with the story is that I was constantly waiting for a giant mind blowing revelation like in the original Nier, but that one is very hard to top.
XANDER CAGE
Member
The commander confirms the information to 9S because from her perspective, it doesn't matter. She assumes 2B will find out he's discovered the truth and kill him, just as she's done many times before. What the commander isn't aware of is 1. things will not pan out that simply and 9S will not get the chance to tell 2B/just doesn't tell her, and 2. that 2B is starting to resent her orders and will take any excuse to not kill this 9S.
Nier remake at least! I feel its so deserving now.
I'm really interested to see what this game does for yoko taro's standing in square and if it leads to more collabs between SE and PG. it feels like this is the first game from platinum that wasnt a joke. It's a serious game, it's a high budget game, and there's no caveats to it. Usually PG is "its kinda dumb but its hilarious" and yoko taro games are known for being unique and great in all but gameplay and budget.
This feels like such a special moment to have this game with everything coming together to make something as close as games can get to being perfect. Its basically the Chrono Trigger of this day. The best of each of the top stars in their area in video games came together and really pulled off something so incredibly rare.
I dunno, i felt like that came across for me in the moment. It hit me pretty hard.
Something i want to do when i play the game again is to mainline the game and not do as many sidequests until after playthrough 3 when i can track where the quests are and do some of the shared ones as a2 so i can get more of her personality. I spend 50 hours in 2B's playthrough because I was checking under every rock for something interesting (its also why i was so overleveled for the adam and eve fights...i didnt just do every quest but i ended up grinding without realising it because i had so much fun exploring) i also wanna do the two last endings in the other order because i feel D fits better for a normal run and C links into E much more cleanly (although for a second i wondered if the credits ship was supposed to be the rocket from the end of D... ;p )
Ya, and I think that's why the commander first turns on them when they show up in the Bunker after the virus. They're acting weird and 9S hasn't been taken care of. Makes that scene less jarring that she suddenly suspects them.
EmCeeGramr
Member
The 2E twist doesn't just change the way you see 2B in the main story, it also recontextualizes certain sidequests:
-Amnesia, where 2B acts jealous at 9S helping the android, and makes an "ignorance is bliss" comment after 9S remarks that he's never heard of E units
-YoRHa Betrayers, where 2B getting the mission at all hints at what she really is, as well as how Pod 042 nonchalantly switches from "detain" to "destroy" to 9S's confusion, to how 2B is either silent or tries to move on when 9S points out that they just killed fellow units who didn't commit one of the crimes they were accused of
-Wandering Couple, where the twist is that the woman has been reformatting the man's memories multiple times
It also changes the feel of the end of Route B to the beginning act of Route C a lot; The situation goes from "9S has learned a dark secret while earnest soldier 2B is still in the dark until he tells her" to "9S doesn't really know anything, 2B has been the one with the knowledge all along"
-Amnesia, where 2B acts jealous at 9S helping the android, and makes an "ignorance is bliss" comment after 9S remarks that he's never heard of E units
-YoRHa Betrayers, where 2B getting the mission at all hints at what she really is, as well as how Pod 042 nonchalantly switches from "detain" to "destroy" to 9S's confusion, to how 2B is either silent or tries to move on when 9S points out that they just killed fellow units who didn't commit one of the crimes they were accused of
-Wandering Couple, where the twist is that the woman has been reformatting the man's memories multiple times
It also changes the feel of the end of Route B to the beginning act of Route C a lot; The situation goes from "9S has learned a dark secret while earnest soldier 2B is still in the dark until he tells her" to "9S doesn't really know anything, 2B has been the one with the knowledge all along"
ShadowSoldier89
Member
yea, good point. My first opinion was she flipped on them because she was supporting the YoRHa project destruction goals and realized they had escaped the destruction. However now remembering the top secret documents, she was in the dark about the destruction, only knowing about the human lie.
So she expected 2B had gone traitor on killing 9S at first, but when the virus hit the station she flipped her tone and just wanted them to survive.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Had this thought earlier today. Makes sense.
XANDER CAGE
Member
-It makes her sudden flip to opening up to 6O a lot more tragic, considering it's probably the first opportunity she's had to get close to someone who isn't a ward she has to kill over and over.
-It throws her opening speech at the very beginning of the game into a... very different light.
N2 is one massive Manah shout-out all over, that part included.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Wouldn't you say the little girl is reminiscent of Manah in the first place even before that?
ShadowSoldier89
Member
2B goes from an inconsistently written character with some fun moments to an absolutely brilliant character.
Oh yeah i totally got some "the watchers talking through mana" vibes there. I was really hoping the voice would switch to that specific tone just for a second. ;p
Question: is it possible to do A2's desert and pascal missions before playing 9S's tower quests in Play 3? I kind of want to do that next time and i think it looked like i'd be able to? (I switched back and forth each time, which made the final part feel like a real escalation of how I chose to play that part.)
Its so interesting how you essentially kill the primary antagonists in the middle of the game and then what the second half is about...its kind of not a "second major antagonist". (It feels like a better version of what mgsv tried to do with skullface and chapter 2.)
EmCeeGramr
Member
small brain: the machines are being corrupted by whatever remains of the watchers, hence the drakengard imagery
large, lit up brain: it's merely symbolic that the machines too have met "God" and become warped, but through technology rather than magic. what happened once can happen again
galaxy brain: the ark launched from the tower fell through a timespace warp in an attempt to find a new world, where it appeared in the Drakengard universe as Cathedral City, the watchers/angels/dragons/flower/magic are just highly evolved machine lifeforms and the whole thing is a time loop
large, lit up brain: it's merely symbolic that the machines too have met "God" and become warped, but through technology rather than magic. what happened once can happen again
galaxy brain: the ark launched from the tower fell through a timespace warp in an attempt to find a new world, where it appeared in the Drakengard universe as Cathedral City, the watchers/angels/dragons/flower/magic are just highly evolved machine lifeforms and the whole thing is a time loop
For those unsure.
What is this picture supposed to show?
https://youtu.be/_yfA94EpeqM
Watching this video on the game, I forgot 2B straight up says "It always ends like this." While she chokes out 9S in tears. At the time i found the scene odd but now that I have this context...goddamn!
Watching this video on the game, I forgot 2B straight up says "It always ends like this." While she chokes out 9S in tears. At the time i found the scene odd but now that I have this context...goddamn!
EmCeeGramr
Member
Actually thinking about it, the Wandering Couple sidequest foreshadows a lot. From the act of a woman constantly forcing her male companion to essentially die and be reborn over and over, to the fact that she's perpetuating a lie in service of advancing someone and making them ever stronger over a cycle of destruction (like both YoRHa and machine network).
Tribes of Trusty
Member
Interesting point to talk about, I don't know if they translated from Japanese or English, but in French, they use " ****** ".
Now, in French, there are a lot of ways to say either fornicate or kill. But common ones for kill in 6 letters ? The only one I can think of on top of my head is "occire" which is not that common in fact (more in literary works). Plus it sounds awkward in everyday life and dialogue.
That leaves us with synonyms of fornicate or fuck. There are more of them in French ha ha, such as : baiser, niquer, sauter - which are commonly used in spoken language and work well here with the taunting subtext from Adam.
In a nutshell, we Latin people are number 1 when it comes to describing the sexual act ha ha.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Speaking of side content that takes on a different tone after seeing the whole story, the Romeos and Juliets scene is loaded with commentary about the machine/android war, but also, this sticks out:
ShadowSoldier89
Member
oh, wow. And here all I took that for was "Pisseth Off', which to be fair, is still the best part
How About No
Member
my god this game and its foreshadowing my god
But fun gameplay flies in the face of what Drakengard is about!!
/s...?
Commander's underpants?
Speaking of side content that takes on a different tone after seeing the whole story, the Romeos and Juliets scene is loaded with commentary about the machine/android war, but also, this sticks out:
Woah.
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