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[harriet the spy]

Let me iterate once again: People's opinions outside of the US are irrelevant when talking about media being made in the US for the US.

'You'll take American cultural imperialism and you'll shut up.'

 

[Ratrat]

I reduced it to just the women wanting to date white men thing a bit facetiously, but it's no secret Asians generally do "worship" white people. I mean we even have a word in Chinese for it.

It's a pretty significant reason why a lot of Asian-Americans are so frustrated with things like white-washing. It's an issue we deal with growing up here in the West and being virtually not represented, but the worst part is that the majority of your own people across the ocean not only think it's fine, but support it.

I agree with what your saying. Just nitpicking.

 

[TheNatureBoy]

I was trying to think of unusual roles for a male Asian actor in Hollywood. Ken Jeong came to mind. Now I feel unwell. Brb.

Ezekiel from The Librarians comes to mind

 

[KonradLaw]

But maybe you're onto something. The act of becoming more visible and drawing attention to oneself, perhaps by becoming physically brighter, doesn't seem too far fetched of an explanation.

Pretty much any culture of people who are capable of tanning will tend too see whiter skin as preferable. Even before they had contact with white people. For most of history if you were tanned you were a peseant who had to work in the fields, while if you were pale then it meant you were wealthy/influential enough to avoid such work. Thus the whiter the skin the more prestige assumed.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

If there is anyone who would actually worship white people, I can only imagine it's because they have never spent any significant amount of time living/working/studying with them.

People who do would never think they're hot shit (as far as generalization goes).

 

[Principate]

He's a famous celebrity in Korea and she's a huge fan which is why she's so surprised.

Yeah but why does he look like look like why he's scared for his life and seen a ghost. None ever explains that "context".

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

If there is anyone who would actually worship white people, I can only imagine it's because they have never spent any significant amount of time living/working/studying with them.

People who do would never think they're hot shit (as far as generalization goes).

doesnt that apply to worshipping any specific race of people?

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

doesnt that apply to worshipping any specific race of people?

Absolutely.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Wow, this really both an insightful, yet very sad read

And yeah, when they went around asking japanese locals about the casting, I was like "um, do a little research in the current cultural climate instead of just assuming they're cool with it..."

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

This isn't a Japan exclusive issue. It's a worldwide problem and it's fucking disgusting. From India to Jamaica to several parts of the middle east, people revere lighter complexions to the point that you have products that help people achieve just that or, in Jamaicas case, people bleaching their skin with devistating consequences.

Personally I love having dark skin. Pigment bros checking in.

 

[Polioliolio]

I think it's apt to say Japan worships celebrities and celebrity culture as well. Not just white people. Hollywood is worshipped.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

I think it's apt to say Japan worships celebrities and celebrity culture as well. Not just white people. Hollywood is worshipped.

they practically invented letsplays/letswatch type media with showing picture in picture celebrities in the corner, reacting to content, often related to themselves.

 

[Hallowed]

This isn't a Japan exclusive issue. It's a worldwide problem and it's fucking disgusting. From India to Jamaica to several parts of the middle east, people revere lighter complexions to the point that you have products that help people achieve just that or, in Jamaicas case, people bleaching their skin with devistating consequences.

Personally I love having dark skin. Pigment bros checking in.

"It's a worldwide problem and it's fucking disgusting. From India to Jamaica to several parts of the middle east, people revere darker complexions to the point that you have products that help people achieve just that or, in USAs case, people using tanning beds on their skin with devistating consequences.

Personally I love having lighter skin."

Just to highlight the double standards and hypocrisy I've been reading here.

And before anyone assumes anything, I'm brown.

 

[Kid Ying]

I can't speak for the Japanese, or other races' experiences, but I usually feel that they are nice because it is easy to tell that I am a foreigner and its in their nature to be nice to guests. Few of my asian friends who have been to Japan also love their hospitality, so it can't be just be me.

I don't feel worshipped, I feel welcomed.

My girlfriend, who is half japanese and lived there for quite some time was nicknamed "kuro-chan" by the japanese.

Of course, things changed when she showed that she knew english. When they though she was american, they treated her well.

 

[SixMachine]

I was trying to think of unusual roles for a male Asian actor in Hollywood. Ken Jeong came to mind. Now I feel unwell. Brb.

Steven Yeun actually played a likeable character as Glenn in The Walking Dead, also a had a love interedt and was a fan favorite too. Now the gig is up, he has to read lines on the same tier as Bobby Lee. Even Bobby Lee thinks that's fucked up.

 

[Ratrat]

My girlfriend, who is half japanese and lived there for quite some time was nicknamed "kuro-chan" by the japanese.

Of course, things changed when she showed that she knew english. When they though she was american, they treated her well.

Is this your girlfriend?

Regardless, Japanese people are generally pretty polite to each other, not just foreigners. I mean, its quite wasted on people who can't tell the difference anyway.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Whether the artist intends it or not, if you ask a Japanese person on the street what they think a stylized character's nationality is, they'll say Japanese unless it's explicitly not. People fill in characters with their cultural default. That's why westerners see stylized anime characters named Mikasa Sakamoto or whatever as white.


It's because whatever culture (Japanese, American, etc) see stylized characters as whatever is the cultural norm in their media. White people are the default in America, Japanese people are the default in Japan.

That's what I was saying.

The term is called Mukouseki. Interesting wiki;

Mukokuseki is the use of ambiguous racial features in anime, with characters having traits like wide eyes, light skin, great stature, and various hair colors. It literally means "stateless", though the term relates to more abstract anime and is used for hyperbole in this case.

This can be seen in fantasy and science fiction anime, where characters are given colored hair, enlarged eyes, and oddly proportioned human bodies. Phenotype Stereotypes are used to differentiate Western characters from Japanese ones, and the actual features are sometimes not intended to be a direct matchup of reality. It can cause some other problems with a Live Action Adaptation... do you cast a character based on canon ethnicity or what they actually look like?

The general reason behind the presence of mukokuseki is to diversify the character roster and distinguish between individuals, which is more often required in works set in the largely homogenous Japan, where hair and eye colours are typically (naturally) black and brown only, respectively. This usually only gets noticeable with a large enough cast that gives a sampling of the artistic style given for a particular ethnicity. You may find two characters who are Asian while one of them has more in common visually with a Caucasian character. Note that just because you perceive someone as being a particular ethnicity despite Word of God saying otherwise doesn't mean it is this trope. The comparison between characters of different races is where this trope is the most obvious.

This trope has not transitioned well when the time comes around for the Hollywood Live Action Adaptation. As most Western audiences generally perceive all characters to be white unless stated otherwise, whitewashing has become all too common in Hollywood when casting actors to play an otherwise Japanese character (see the controversy around the live action movies of Avatar: The Last Airbender, Dragon Ball and the upcoming Akira for example). See the link under 'Discussions' for more.

Note that even stories that deliberately avoid this may have a main character who fits the bill, especially if that character's design is primarily based on their cuteness or oddity. Heck, another reason this trope is so prevalent is because in Japan white skin is widely considered to be the most beautiful. Some anime even take it to the extent that if they darken the tone of a character that is supposed to look relatively African...the skin is hardly darkened at all, leading to Unfortunate Implications on the author's part...

Of course this discussion is complicated post-WW2 Superiority complex as we all as the Japanese use of racial superiority over other asians in the name of Yamoto-Damashii. Countless millions of them were slaughtered during the earlier parts of the 20th century because they were seen as sub-human garbage.


Of course this is par for course for many many countries, believing they themselves have the key to greatness while everyone else is unworthy. It takes form in a lot of ways, not just not ethnic based.

 

[Moral Panic]

Depends on what you consider polite to be. Is staring polite?

 

[Shaanyboi]

I was trying to think of unusual roles for a male Asian actor in Hollywood. Ken Jeong came to mind. Now I feel unwell. Brb.

For what it's worth, I was glad Ludi Lin got a bit more to do in terms of his relationship with his mom in the Power Rangers movie. And atleast he doesn't come into that movie already being some expert martial artist, and instead has to learn how to fight alongside the rest of the team.
I'd also probably say he's the best-looking dude in that movie.

Also Vincent Rodriguez III plays the central object of the main character's affections in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

Bu this is also the bar of where we're at - playing a relatively normal good-looking guy in a TV series is an unusual role for an East Asian dude.

 

[krazen]

"It's a worldwide problem and it's fucking disgusting. From India to Jamaica to several parts of the middle east, people revere darker complexions to the point that you have products that help people achieve just that or, in USAs case, people using tanning beds on their skin with devistating consequences.

Personally I love having lighter skin."

Just to highlight the double standards and hypocrisy I've been reading here.

And before anyone assumes anything, I'm brown.

You also missed the point. The issue is that there is a europeanized version of beauty thats permiated worldwide and even though the poster is of the much maligned darker skinned, he still loves it.

You must run out and punch a radio when James Brown's civil rights era "Black And Proud" comes on, or yell at women with "Girl Power" t shirts. Slogans//sayings being proud of one's societal minority status are important. Read a book.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

You also missed the point. The issue is that there is a europeanized version of beauty thats permiated worldwide and even though the poster is of the much maligned darker skinned, he still loves it.

We need more of this:

 

[Litan]

"It's a worldwide problem and it's fucking disgusting. From India to Jamaica to several parts of the middle east, people revere darker complexions to the point that you have products that help people achieve just that or, in USAs case, people using tanning beds on their skin with devistating consequences.

Personally I love having lighter skin."

Just to highlight the double standards and hypocrisy I've been reading here.

And before anyone assumes anything, I'm brown.

Hold up...WHAT?!

You can't possibly be this fucking fucking ignorant!

In what part of the world is having darker skin seen as a plus? Equating tanning to skin bleaching? Acting like pride in being dark-skinned is the same as pride in being light or white skinned?

Bet you're one of those people who gets up in arms about 'black is beautiful' or 'black girls rock.'
Read a fucking history book, take a good look at the world around you, educate yourself.

"And before anyone assumes anything, I'm brown."
Doesn't make you any less of an idiot. In fact, it probably just makes it worse. You should know better.

 

[140.85]

“What Asian lady has a body like Scarlett Johansson?”

Does this dude not use the internet?

 

[Hallowed]

You also missed the point. The issue is that there is a europeanized version of beauty thats permiated worldwide and even though the poster is of the much maligned darker skinned, he still loves it.

You must run out and punch a radio when James Brown's civil rights era "Black And Proud" comes on, or yell at women with "Girl Power" t shirts. Slogans//sayings being proud of one's societal minority status are important. Read a book.

I'm all for being proud of who you are and where youre from.

I also don't have a problem if people find fairer skin to be attractive. It's there opinion and if that's what they find attractive, it's not for anyone to tell them otherwise.

It's funny how any time anyone likes anything white/fair skinned, they are being shouted at that they've been brainwashed and how "disgusting" it is to have such opinions. But it's okay to say how proud you are if you're darker skinned? Sorry but I don't accept that.

There is such racist undertones with the way people talk about how horrible it is to aspire to be fair in skin colour for those that want it. I don't begrudge fair skinned people wanting tans either.

Let people do what they please and stop being so bloody judgemental.

 

[Exploratory]

News at 11 my friend.

 

[Nategc20]

Most people in Japan love black guys and women from my stint in the Navy.

 

[Zoe]

What. If anything there are too many worthless biracial fashion models as is.

Becky isn't a model, nor is the other guy.

Fashion models are completely different from talent stars who appear in every facet of entertainment.

 

[PrismStar]

Uhuh. All I was saying is this idea that all Asian women want to date/marry White men isn't true. And it shouldn't be a surprise that being an exotic foreigner makes dating easier.

Yeah, I live in Vietnam and recenlty there are many black male prostitutes from Africa "working" in my city. Women, especially older women, LOVE them, well I guess because of how hung they are compared to the local men

 

[Trojita]

Clark Kent is clearly Asian.

I always thought Lex Luthor in the DC animated universe was black. He still is to me.

Apparently he is supposed to be based on Telly Savalas though.

 

[Bold One]

Yeah, I live in Vietnam and recenlty there are many black male prostitutes from Africa "working" in my city. Women, especially older women, LOVE them, well I guess because of how hung they are compared to the local men

Vietnam?

Really?

damn...ok

 

[……forgetit]

"It's a worldwide problem and it's fucking disgusting. From India to Jamaica to several parts of the middle east, people revere darker complexions to the point that you have products that help people achieve just that or, in USAs case, people using tanning beds on their skin with devistating consequences.

Personally I love having lighter skin."

Just to highlight the double standards and hypocrisy I've been reading here.

And before anyone assumes anything, I'm brown.

The point went right over your head. If that was the case, it's not, then it would be an issue. No one is saying that it's bad to like the way you look when you have light skin, the issue is that in many places people have an unhealthy obsession with getting lighter skin. People around the world are literally poisoning themselves because they don't like their natural skin tone.

Clark Kent is clearly Asian.

It took years but DC finally got it right

 

[krazen]

I'm all for being proud of who you are and where youre from.

I also don't have a problem if people find fairer skin to be attractive. It's there opinion and if that's what they find attractive, it's not for anyone to tell them otherwise.

It's funny how any time anyone likes anything white/fair skinned, they are being shouted at that they've been brainwashed and how "disgusting" it is to have such opinions. But it's okay to say how proud you are if you're darker skinned? Sorry but I don't accept that.

There is such racist undertones with the way people talk about how horrible it is to aspire to be fair in skin colour for those that want it. I don't begrudge fair skinned people wanting tans either.

Let people do what they please and stop being so bloody judgemental.

The problem is that more often than not its not a natural preference. If it was a perfect world, sure! You like lightskinned, I like darkskinned, I like tall women, you like short women, etc all good. But you're avoiding the racial issues where dark skinned is seen as a negative which permiates worldwide. There's been studies across the board that show at even 5 year olds prefer lighter skin because they were already indoctrinated by societal queues

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_and_Mamie_Clark

Its a "hey, if we dont talk about racism, it will just go away!" moment which doesnt work, particularly if its so insidious it affects even kids.

 

[Fuchsdh]

If true, it'd be kind of an interesting irony that black people having their ethnic/national origins obscured by slavery could allow them to coalesce as a sub-group in America and see any black representation benefitting the whole group.

Black people are also a far larger minority group in the US, and (most importantly) I'd argue a far more visible one in mainstream culture through their role in arts and entertainment. I mean, when you think of black entertainers, you have rappers, jazz musicians, show hosts, et al... when I think of Asians in the arts I think of stereotypical cello and piano players. They just don't have the same penetration.

I get where people are talking about these films being global films for global markets... but they really aren't when it gets down to how these films are made. By all accounts stuff like whitewashing gets way more traction in the US than elsewhere; this is about representation of the demographics of the US in US-produced media.

 

[Trojita]

The point went right over your head. If that was the case, it's not, then it would be an issue. No one is saying that it's bad to like the way you look when you have light skin, the issue is that in many places people have an unhealthy obsession with getting lighter skin. People around the world are literally poisoning themselves because they don't like their natural skin tone.



It took years but DC finally got it right

Is this post sponsored by bronsonlee?

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

*double post *

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

I reduced it to just the women wanting to date white men thing a bit facetiously, but it's no secret Asians generally do "worship" white people. I mean we even have a word in Chinese for it.

Damn. What is this word and what does it translate to?

"It's a worldwide problem and it's fucking disgusting. From India to Jamaica to several parts of the middle east, people revere darker complexions to the point that you have products that help people achieve just that or, in USAs case, people using tanning beds on their skin with devistating consequences.

Personally I love having lighter skin."

Just to highlight the double standards and hypocrisy I've been reading here.

And before anyone assumes anything, I'm brown.

You're a little in over your head. Rather than give this contribution, sit back watch and learn something.

 

[Big Green Anus]

This is such a good discussion.

So many good parts to quote.



God bless these women.

Okatsuka knows her stuff!

 

[Hallowed]

You're a little in over your head. Rather than give this contribution, sit back watch and learn something.

I have some advice for you too. Make your point without the condescension. People may just listen to you then.

 

[ShiroAmakusa]

Pretty much any culture of people who are capable of tanning will tend too see whiter skin as preferable. Even before they had contact with white people. For most of history if you were tanned you were a peseant who had to work in the fields, while if you were pale then it meant you were wealthy/influential enough to avoid such work. Thus the whiter the skin the more prestige assumed.

I love my parents and the only thing Asian about us is our family name but that's EXACTLY how I was raised: Only poor people (or the ones who can't get a better job) are tanned. Basically, if you're working outdoors in the sun, you're a peasant.

Does anyone remember when all the tanning salons started to appear everywhere?
Must have been around the 90's, at least in Germany. But the people here think different anyway, tanned skin still appears to be a cosmetic necessity around here.

Asian people (usually girls) are also the only ones to compliment me on my skin. For most Germans, I'm placed somewhere on the "sickly" looking spectrum.

 

[sandy1297]

I was trying to think of unusual roles for a male Asian actor in Hollywood. Ken Jeong came to mind. Now I feel unwell. Brb.

The Raid cast was in The Force Awakens for a few minutes before they get eaten by an alien beast

Joe Taslim (also from The Raid) was in Fast & Furious 6 and the latest Star Trek

 

[Ratrat]

Becky isn't a model, nor is the other guy.

Fashion models are completely different from talent stars who appear in every facet of entertainment.

What guy?
If your on tv you are a 'talent'.

 

[Zoe]

What guy?
If your on tv you are a 'talent'.

Dante Carver, you know, what I was responding to?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It's funny how any time anyone likes anything white/fair skinned, they are being shouted at that they've been brainwashed and how "disgusting" it is to have such opinions. But it's okay to say how proud you are if you're darker skinned? Sorry but I don't accept that.

There is an obvious association of inferiority that is propogated by having dark skin. Both racially and class based. You would have to be fucking blind not know this considering we have been talking about it in this thread for 1000 posts :/

There is such racist undertones with the way people talk about how horrible it is to aspire to be fair in skin colour for those that want it. I don't begrudge fair skinned people wanting tans either.

It's looked upon negatively because of the race based and class based connotations. Dark being considered poor, black being considered inferior. Those are real fucking issues. Things on this planet do not exist in isolation.

Let people do what they please and stop being so bloody judgemental.

Go away. This is so simplified. It doesn't even acknowledge the damn thread.

 

[Ratrat]

Dante Carver, you know, what I was responding to?

Right. Also a model and a talent. Your attempt at a joke was still dumb.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Becky isn't a model, nor is the other guy.

Fashion models are completely different from talent stars who appear in every facet of entertainment.

Becky actually had some decent comedy chops in 笑う犬

 

[NEO0MJ]

I always thought Lex Luthor in the DC animated universe was black. He still is to me.

Apparently he is supposed to be based on Telly Savalas though.

I thought the same thing. Though in Justice League he was looking more white.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

I have some advice for you too. Make your point without the condescension. People may just listen to you then.

My bad, point taken.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I always thought Lex Luthor in the DC animated universe was black. He still is to me.

Apparently he is supposed to be based on Telly Savalas though.

No one is going to convince me otherwise. I don't care what "proof" you have

 

[mckmas8808]

Isn't it the same in China and south Korea as well?

This is so sad to read.

 

[PSqueak]

For some reason I immediately thought of Terry Bogard, Andy Bogard, and Rock Howard from the Fatal Fury series. You don't get much whiter than those characters.

To be fair, Fatal Fury [and Art of Fighting btw] took place in America, other SNK franchises took place in japan and thus had japanese protagonists, and like pointed before, when KOF rolled out, they made the face of the franchise a japanese guy from a team that's literally team japan and whose team mate includes Goro Daimon, the most japanese man to ever japan out of japan.