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[WrenchNinja]

Hey, guess what

For a lot of people this IS their first Persona game

I'm not quite sure why you're being a condescending piece of shit about it

He's not...if the protagonist getting knocked out and getting a game over is a huge issue for you, switch to the lowest difficulty where that isnt an issue

The game provides you with numerous methods of avoiding a game over, and save spots are never that far away for you to lose significant progress

 

[DarknessTear]

Haven't been reading the thread but it's fine that you get game over when MC dies for the simple reason that you have the power to use any persona in your arsenal, so you have plenty of persona to resist against physical or certain elements. MC has way more defenses than the rest of your party who are locked to one element.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Unless it erases your save when you die I don't see the problem.

 

[Acid08]

Because they got lazier in terms of designing scenarios that require legitimate strategies and team building. Its the same reason you can no longer switch personas for your entire team.

"lazier" lmao

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah, it's an objectively bad mechanic in the game. If you can revive other party members you should be able to revive the party leader. And to those saying it's fair because you have a multitude of Persona and can switch mid battle:

What if you are hit with one of the one-hit KO moves. Game over.

What if you are hit with your weakness and then the enemy does a follow up attack. Game over.

What if the enemy spans AOE attacks, hitting a team members weakness and then getting a critical hit on another and then targeting you. Game over.

I absolutely love Persona 5 to death, but this mechanic needs to GTFO.

You don't want know what the word objective means.

The whiners need to get the fuck out of playing Persona games.

 

[Sakura]

If you are fighting enemies with Hama/Mudo, and are worried about the MC getting killed, then equip a persona with resistances to those. Isn't that how the game is supposed to work? If you don't want to do that, or are still getting game overs then just put the game on safety.
The game is designed around the idea of when the MC dies it is game over. It's why raising social links for party members gives them the ability to save you from a killing blow.
Complaining about getting game overs because the MC keeps dying sounds like you are saying the game is too hard and they should make it easier. If you are struggling, create better personas that will help you. That's kind of the whole point.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

I get that the game doesn't have autosave but it it still has a checkpoint every time you enter a saferoom. You should never lose any more progress than that even if you haven't hard saved in hours.

 

[Mupod]

back in my day we got randomly Mudo'd after a 3 hour dungeon uphill in chest deep snow and we didn't complain about it.

 

[YuriLowell]

At least P5 has generous save points unlike Persona 3.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

This mechanic definitely bugged me a bit back in the day, but this being the third Persona game in this style I've learned to deal with it and it doesn't bother me at all anymore. The fact is that there are myriad options to avoid losing your MC in combat. Recognizing those options and preparing your Persona deck for every contingency is exactly what the game expects out of the player. In Persona 5 I've only suffered a single sudden game over and that's because I foolishly had my MC equipped with a Persona weak to the enemy's attack.

These games can be punishing and can even feel unfair at times, but looking back every single game over screen I ever saw could have been avoided with better preparation and strategy.

 

[Shahed]

Except Persona mechanics are kind of dumb and it's possible for your MC to die to some crap you can't realistically plan against.

My favorite was my entire team getting status'd by an enemy I've never seen before, and then the MC killed by them hitting his weakness while I couldn't swap my persona.

Lost an hour.

Yeah I learned this the hard way in a previous game. After I lost an hour once, I always made sure to never let my MC have a weakness on a Persona as much as possible. Especially the light/dark Hama and Mudo which can one shot you if you weak to their instant death attacks.

I don't particularly like this mechanic even if it's pretty straightforward to deal with it if yiu have some experience with the games. RNG can be really bad in this series. I remember when playing Persona 2 (which actually doesn't have the mechanic) where I died and lost a lot of time to a random battle that killed me before I even took a single turn based on status effects and instant death moves that I got really annoyed, and combined with that games extremely tedious and torturous encounter rate, I just dropped the game

 

[Kalentan]

You don't want know what the word objective means.

The whiners need to get the fuck out of playing Persona games.

Anyone want to inform me when the Dark Souls Elite community took over the Persona community?

Seriously, you guys are acting like Persona is this hardcore RPG series, when it's not.

 

[SephiZack]

I hate it but it's to balance the game, it's only an issue at the beginning but later on MC becomes extremely OP. He can do what every other character does, but miles better.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Anyone want to inform me when the Dark Souls Elite community took over the Persona community?

Seriously, you guys are acting like Persona is this hardcore RPG series, when it's not.

This thread confused me greatly. It's my first persona so seein this shit I don't wanna conversation with any of the fanbase if it's like this because damn

 

[Kalentan]

This thread confused me greatly. It's my first persona so seein this shit I don't wanna conversation with any of the fanbase if it's like this because damn

I didn't even realize it was like this and I've played P3 and P4G.

 

[Shahed]

Anyone want to inform me when the Dark Souls Elite community took over the Persona community?

Seriously, you guys are acting like Persona is this hardcore RPG series, when it's not.

This thread confused me greatly. It's my first persona so seein this shit I don't wanna conversation with any of the fanbase if it's like this because damn

If in doubt, ignore and if necessary dismiss the most passionate or hardcore of fans from any series. I'm a fan of Persona and the Souls games, but I can acknowledge flaws or at least differences of opinion. Some people will defend anything no matter what.

Let me go make a thread saying the Souls games need to let you pause.

 

[Acid08]

This thread confused me greatly. It's my first persona so seein this shit I don't wanna conversation with any of the fanbase if it's like this because damn

It used to just be the regular SMT fans who would talk like this about Persona. "Baby games" and all that.

It's one thing to disagree with someone's take, I personally don't agree with OP's opinion, but another to just tell them they ain't hardcore enough. Especially ironic considering the modern Persona games are all about building empathy and understanding for those around you.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

If in doubt, ignore and if necessary dismiss the most passionate or hardcore of fans from any series. I'm a fan of Persona and the Souls games, but I can acknowledge flaws or at least differences of opinion. Some people will defend anything no matter what.

Let me go make a thread saying the Souls games need to let you pause.

Lol we had that thread it went about as well as one would expect. I remember getting quoted like 20 times because I wanted to pause

 

[Memento_Mori15]

WIth every installment of the persona series, it has gotten easier to not die. In persona 5, you can easily pull off a first strike even by just running to them and spamming the surprise attack button. After getting the first strike, you should always try to exploit an enemy weakness.

The main character is already OP and you're given access to persona that null certain elements early on unlike persona 3 or 4.

I think this was a valid complaint for persona 3 since you didn't have control over your teammates but not for persona 5 where they made it easier.

 

[Iva Demilcol]

I understand losing progress is not remotely funny but the game actually allows you to save quite often. Losing 5 hours just suggests that you're not even bothering to visit safe rooms. The game has lots of save slots too and those are very convenient for the life sim parts.

 

[Thud]

The reason why is because the MC changed from your average joe to one with unique powers.

From Persona 3 and onwards the MC is a wanderer that travels a certain path and the people he meets along his journey. If he dies along the way, that journey ends.

In Persona 5 you can retry battles against bosses. If you die against mobs, then it's best to adjust your strategies.

Should it be removed? That depends on who takes over after Hashino. There might be a different opinion on how story affects gameplay and its importance.

One thing they could implement is autosaving when you enter a save room or when a day has passed.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

I was doing some grinding/persona hunting... felt 0 fear because I was demolishing enemies and had virtually unlimited SP because all of my characters have SP3 bands.

How is that possible? You can't respawn enemies without triggering a reload of a zone. The places to do that in the Pyramid are right next to Safe Rooms or the outside.

 

[Iriscomeback]

Yeah it can be annoying. But just like everyone already stated, Joker is really overpowered. If you encounter an enemy with certain strong elemental attacks you can just switch your Persona. There are plenty of Persona's that have no weaknesses.

Just make sure you have a wide range of Persona's on hand and you should be fine. Also don't forget to keep your buffs up and save often.

 

[OverBlood 3]

What's an MC?

 

[Kalentan]

What's an MC?

Main Character.

 

[Socivol]

It wasn't so bad in P4 but in P5 with the sneaking mechanic it can be super annoying. The camera and the hiding locations are not always visible. I had an instance where I was trying to hide and the camera angle flipped and when I tried to move the MC back he rolled out from against the wall. A shadow ambushed me and killed me. I was so pissed. I've had other instances where the camera being unfriendly has gotten me ambushed as well.

 

[onemanasylum]

Preparation so that it doesn't happen is part of skill. It makes battles more strategic.

This, why is this a bad thing? Gamers today are spoiled and rarely have to worry about death.

 

[OverBlood 3]

Main Character.

Oh haha I'm dumb. Thanks!

 

[motorised mallard]

At least P5 has generous save points unlike Persona 3.

And even if you could have gone to save the game, your party members would have left most likely after long stretches of dungeon crawling. Meaning that you "couldn't" go to save the game if you wanted to push further. Meaning that when the instant death hit you, it would take you back a long way most likely.

That was actually my "welcome to the SMT series" moment in P3, lost about 1½-2h hours of progress when a weak enemy instakilled me when I was running around just meleeing dudes to save sp.

P5 has decent safe room (save point) spread for the most part in the story dungeons. But there are odd ones like in the

Spoiler

3rd

Palace where you have to fight your way to a mini boss, you can get to a safe room after beating that mini boss and then you use an elevator to go down and next to that in the bottom is a another safe room, with zero chance of combat between the rooms.

 

[suzu]

There are ways to avoid dying, so it's like whatever imo. If you're grinding, do it near a safe room. I don't get how anyone can lose hours. D:

The first dungeon is the most difficult since you don't have much available to you and don't have high enough confidant ranks with your party members, but I don't recall there being many instant deaths or status effect deaths.

As you progress in the game, it gets easier because more things become available. If it's too annoying to deal with, switch to easy or safety mode.

Edit: Oh yeah, and shadows can't detect you at all while you're in sneaky mode (even if they're next to you). Take advantage of that.

 

[nOoblet16]

Have people here forgotten about ff13 all of a sudden?

Tbf FFXIII doesn't have the problem of instadeath on enemy's first turn.

 

[zenspider]

The reason is to add tension to what would otherwise be very tedious grinding. EVERY fight in P5 is an opportunity to lose if you screw up, get ambushed and some fucker casts the wrong thing on you. So you try very hard not to screw up. When you do screw up, it hurts, this is known as "playing a game".

For an alternative, look at something like Bravely default which allows you to turn all battles off, walk to the save point and then grind beside it with absolutely no danger to anything. It makes it incredibly boring.

Persona is doing this right.

+1

 

[Triteon]

I dont remember this happening during P4. But its happened to me a few times in 5.

It really only happens when an enemy with decent target all attack gets the drop on me and they get to go first.

I have had it once during a boss battle but that was me not figuring out the boss's strong attack quick enough.

In both instances i felt like the mistake was mine.

 

[Suzushiiro]

In 5 the main issue is that unlike in 4 the things that make the mechanic less annoying are all level 9-10 confidant rewards, so you won't get them until mid to late game. "Yosuke became your friend! Yosuke will now DIE FOR YOU" was a little weird, yeah, but it was probably the better way to go.

 

[impirius]

I'm on board with whoever mentioned the "one turn to revive MC" idea. (Sorry, I can't find the post now.)

FFXV restricts any actions except for revival once the main character is downed. Something like that could work for Persona; characters can either revive the MC or forfeit their turn. Alternatively, the entire party's next turn is used up by reviving the MC. That way, the MC being downed puts you at a disadvantage, but you can fight your way out of it rather than just losing a bunch of progress instantly.

 

[motorised mallard]

In 5 the main issue is that unlike in 4 the things that make the mechanic less annoying are all level 9-10 confidant rewards, so you won't get them until mid to late game. "Yosuke became your friend! Yosuke will now DIE FOR YOU" was a little weird, yeah, but it was probably the better way to go.

You mean that people that you met a week ago don't normally jump in front of a bullet for you? Not much of a friend then.

I think that S-Link lvl 5-7 would be better place for it. Gameplay wise atleast.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't understand. No one is forcing you to use the autosave slot exclusively. Why would that be a bad thing?

Optional auto save even being useless for me if fine.

The only way in my view the autosave can help in this game is if the game uses a new slot to each new save or at least has well 10-15 slots for auto saves separated from 16 manual saves.

In any case... autosave can be implemented in any way even not being useful for me... and I believe autosaves needs to works only in safespaces, enter/left dungeons and when you sleep to pass a day.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

In 5 the main issue is that unlike in 4 the things that make the mechanic less annoying are all level 9-10 confidant rewards, so you won't get them until mid to late game. "Yosuke became your friend! Yosuke will now DIE FOR YOU" was a little weird, yeah, but it was probably the better way to go.

P5 compensates in a lot of other ways which make the move of the die for you ability not an issue.

 

[Dragner]

Also P5 has a lot of S.Links that give qol advantages in dungeons that makes it very hard to lose like Hermit or Star.

 

[Aselith]

Except Persona mechanics are kind of dumb and it's possible for your MC to die to some crap you can't realistically plan against.

My favorite was my entire team getting status'd by an enemy I've never seen before, and then the MC killed by them hitting his weakness while I couldn't swap my persona.

Lost an hour.

How could you lose an hour? You can't go five feet without stumbling on a saferoom.

 

[Jeffrey]

I also don't get why people need tension in random battles?

Mainstream jrpgs typically aren't about that since... Ff4?

If you need difficulty swap that up. The challenge of persona was always about trying to get more stuff done in 1 day,so mostly about item and sp management that anything else, especially these days when fatigue isn't an issue.

Turning down the difficulty is a weird argument too. I'm fine with normal difficulty, but I can live without freak crits or mudo. My time is limited. Losing even 30min of progress to bad luck is no good. Or let me have a toggle option to allow restarting a battle when you die. So you badass people can turn it off?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

"lazier" lmao

Not commenting on the point itself, but it could very well be to make encounter design easier. FF13 literally featured a final boss that casts Death, frequently at the MC, which instantly loses you the battle. This is contrary to just making the battle interesting and creative.

 

[Dragner]

Not commenting on the point itself, but it could very well be to make encounter design easier. FF13 literally featured a final boss that casts Death, frequently at the MC, which instantly loses you the battle. This is contrary to just making the battle interesting and creative.

In fact you need an item to somewhat avoid it that is hard to find/craft so the casual player will fall into it unprepared and then it becomes rng fiesta.

 

[Sakura]

I also don't get why people need tension in random battles?

Mainstream jrpgs typically aren't about that since... Ff4?

If you need difficulty swap that up. The challenge of persona was always about trying to get more stuff done in 1 day,so mostly about item and sp management that anything else, especially these days when fatigue isn't an issue.

Turning down the difficulty is a weird argument too. I'm fine with normal difficulty, but I can live without freak crits or mudo. My time is limited. Losing even 30min of progress to bad luck is no good. Or let me have a toggle option to allow restarting a battle when you die. So you badass people can turn it off?

Persona 5 doesn't have random battles.
If you are getting game overs enough for it to be an issue, change your strategy, get better personas, etc.
Getting game overs to bad luck in this game is very rare in my opinion. Is it bad luck that you didn't have a persona with mudo resistance? I don't think so.
If your time is truly limited in that you can't explore these options, then I don't understand why lowering the difficulty isn't a valid suggestion.

 

[nOoblet16]

Not commenting on the point itself, but it could very well be to make encounter design easier. FF13 literally featured a final boss that casts Death, frequently at the MC, which instantly loses you the battle. This is contrary to just making the battle interesting and creative.

Actually no, it's not death. It's an attack with a chance of insta kill that only works if you are poisoned. There are plenty of bits and situations so it's avoidable. I know I didn't have that issue and killed Orphan easily.

 

[Uno Venova]

It's a horrible mechanic. And it makes no sense, everyone can use health items on a turn but decide they can't when Joker dies? Now unless you're running back through the dungeons every 10 minutes to save rooms, which isn't fun, just tedious, you can unexpectedly loose progress anytime a strong enemy gets a lucky hit.

But alas, the game is a fan favorite right now, criticisms against it aren't going to go over well.

 

[jbluzb]

As the chosen one, it is acceptable that it is game over when you die. I think there is nothing wrong with the mechanics.

 

[Grim Patron]

If you are fighting enemies with Hama/Mudo, and are worried about the MC getting killed, then equip a persona with resistances to those. Isn't that how the game is supposed to work? If you don't want to do that, or are still getting game overs then just put the game on safety.
The game is designed around the idea of when the MC dies it is game over. It's why raising social links for party members gives them the ability to save you from a killing blow.
Complaining about getting game overs because the MC keeps dying sounds like you are saying the game is too hard and they should make it easier. If you are struggling, create better personas that will help you. That's kind of the whole point.

.

 

[mugurumakensei]

How could you lose an hour? You can't go five feet without stumbling on a saferoom.

There are stretches in a late game dungeon where you are away from a safe room for a while.

 

[HStallion]

A lot of games totally rely on their being a failure state. You might not like it but its kind of essential for certain games and even certain genres. Being punished for dying is part of the game. That said you can make this mechanic bull shit in a variety of ways but there is nothing wrong with it by itself especially when implemented in a creative or effective manner.