• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The direction of Sony's next-generation game machine "PlayStation 5"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Shin

Shin

Banned
Article source: Watch Impress JP
Long article that goes in-depth with what went wrong at GlobalFoundries with the PS4, why switching fab isn't easy and the problems PlayStation faces with PS5.
It's a long but good read and contains a lot of information, hopefully someone can translate the whole thing properly as this was done with Google Translate.


The direction of evolution of game machines symbolized by Xbox One X
With the announcement of Microsoft's next generation game machine "Xbox One X", the appearance of the next generation game machine "Sony Interactive Entertainment (SIE)" PlayStation 5 (PS 5) "has come to appear.
Click to expand...


Game machines have evolved in a step-wise direction
Xbox One X's pattern predicts the pattern of evolution of future game machines. By extending the existing architecture, it has inheritability, thereby reducing various start-up costs. Game machines seem to be changing to the PC type gradual development model. This trend seems to be common not only to Microsoft but also to SIE.
Click to expand...
On the architecture, the GPU core is AMD's next-generation "Vega" or "Navi", the CPU core will be described later but AMD's latest "ZEN" system CPU core or "Jaguar Jaguar) "system CPU core. In the memory, whether or not the stacked DRAM will come is a point, but there is a high possibility that the cost reduction of the HBM 2 will not be in time. Another important point is whether to make it VR ready, what to do with deep learning inference (reasoning), and so on.
Click to expand...


Manufacturing foundation that changes with CPU core selection
The key point is the release time of PS 5, which greatly depends on process technology and architecture. The release of PS 5 is currently seen as 2020, but it is not without the possibility of releasing in 2019. In the case of 2019, since it has to enter chip design anymore, it is marginal in timing, but it is not impossible.
By the way, during the period from chip development start to game machine launch, Microsoft is short, SIE is longer. Considering from the usual pattern of SIE, the possibility is higher in 2020, but 2019 could be possible if various periods are shortened by inheritance of architecture.The key point here is how to deal with the CPU core architecture, foundry and process technology. These three are closely involved and can not be separated at present. Because part of AMD's CPU IP is tied to the foundry.

AMD has entrusted manufacturing to two foundries, mainly GLOBALFOUNDRIES and TSMC. However, AMD's high-performance CPU core is optimized for manufacturing with GLOBALFOUNDRIES, so it can not easily be transferred to TSMC.
It is not a full synthesizable core (synthesizable by logic) that can be synthesized with EDA tools, so it will take a lot of engineering effort to port.

SIE chose AMD 's small power - saving CPU core Jaguar architecture for PS 4 series. However, this is different from the original plan, and in the initial plan was to become the "Steamroller (steam roller)" core of the Bulldozer (bulldozer) system. And APU of Bulldozer core PS 4 was scheduled to be manufactured at 28 nm of GLOBALFOUNDRIES, not TSMC's 28 nm.

However, at the last minute GLOBALFOUNDRIES '28nm rise was doubtful, SIE and AMD were urged to change the plan in a hurry. As a result, we moved the foundry to TSMC, due to time and engineering constraints, the CPU core was changed to a Jaguar core that is synthesizable already on the TSMC process. The first generation PS 4 architecture was supplemented by doubling the number of CPU cores to reduce the CPU core's ability to reduce.
Click to expand...


PS4 was also scheduled to be manufactured at GLOBALFOUNDRIES at first
Because of experience with PS4 manufacturing, it is said that SIE is cautious about consigning production to GLOBALFOUNDRIES. However, when trying to manufacture PS5 with TSMC, it will be caught again in the selection of the CPU core. The latest ZEN CPU core of AMD is physically designed according to 14LPP process of GLOBALFOUNDRIES. Porting ZEN to the TSMC process requires cost and effort.

Because of this background, it is highly likely that even at PS 5, SIE wants a powerful ZEN. However, in that case the manufacturing foundation may be limited to GLOBALFOUNDRIES (or Samsung which is compatible with GLOBALFOUNDRIES 14 nm).
Click to expand...

7.jpg


8.jpg
 
Shin

Shin

Banned
Femto. said:
Title might be misleading?
Click to expand...

It ain't, it's about development, what happen with GlobalFoundry/TSMC with the PS4 and the direction for PS5, read the whole article.

Mediking said:
Is this a leak or speculation....? Guessing?
Click to expand...
It's an article about the background and process, development being longer for SIE than Xbox and the likes.

RubberedDucky said:
Please cite the source of these quotes. It's far too early for meaningful PS5 information.
Click to expand...
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/kaigai/1066148.html fixed, I pasted an image url.
 
A

AmayaPapaya

Banned
I feel like this gen has more years still. We still haven't even seen a Rockstar title. Do we really need to move on already? It feels early to me still.
 
Yautja_Warrior

Yautja_Warrior

Member
Xbox One X is just Microsoft's version of the Pro, not next gen.

PS5 will likely be the first next gen system out though, probably 2019 / 2020.

All I want from next gen is better CPU's (Ideally Zen 2 7nm) . GPU power is really not an issue at this point but the CPU's have held back this gen in some areas, so it would be great to have faster CPU's again for PS5 / next Xbox.
 
G

gtx990

Neo Member
The whole article is speculation and doesn't even make sense.
They will go with GloFo just because of Zen? Come on.
 
D

Deeke[VRZ]

Member
All of this seems fairly obvious. I don't think there's any way Sony will throw away everything it's earned and learned with PS4 by making its successor an actual gen reset.

I'm pretty sure iterative hardware is here to stay, which means Sony will have to keep customizing chips like Microsoft did with the Xbox One X.
 
Shin

Shin

Banned
Ahasverus said:
Nice clickbait
Click to expand...

Nothing clickbait about it if you actually read the whole thing, it's specifically about the direction they need to take and what went wrong.
Since Sony is dependent on GloFo and TSMC, the article explains why SIE can't switch that easily as they might be tied to the former.

We were having this discussion in another thread based on press releases and conference calls: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=241584139&highlight=#post241584139
 
T

Tecnniqe

Banned
darkwing said:
PS5 in 2019, let's do it
Click to expand...
I wonder if they keep releasing a new 399-499 console every other year if people will jump to a PC because at that point the cost difference for marginal upgrades are very high compared to what a PC for the same price would be over the next 5-6+ years.
 
K

KillLaCam

Banned
Yeah 2020 seems fair. Whatever we would get in 2019 probably wouldn't be too much more powerful than the X1X for the price
 
P

PhantomZhu

Banned
this is BS.

I understand why microsoft and Sony are releasing 'super' versions of their console, but making 'super duper' versions is just dumb.

At what point can videogames evolve if we remove generational leaps? It would be WAAAY to confusing for normal consumers to know that some games run on vanilla PS4, meanwhile this game is exclusive to PS4 Pro and over?
 
V

Vash63

Member
PhantomZhu said:
this is BS.

I understand why microsoft and Sony are releasing 'super' versions of their console, but making 'super duper' versions is just dumb.

At what point can videogames evolve if we remove generational leaps? It would be WAAAY to confusing for normal consumers to know that some games run on vanilla PS4, meanwhile this game is exclusive to PS4 Pro and over?
Click to expand...

This would be more than a 'super super' PS4 if it has a Zen based CPU. Jaguar cores are absurdly slow compared to any modern PC CPU - they're significantly slower than an Intel Nehalem i7 released in January 2011. Anything with a Zen or Intel Core design is going to be a full generational leap over PS4(P) and XBone(S/X).
 
Yautja_Warrior

Yautja_Warrior

Member
MilkyJoe said:
2020 / 2021

As a customer i will be pissed if I do not get a good 4 years out of a console.
Click to expand...

Well like all gens, support normally carries on for another year or two, so you would still get that time out of the console.

Now that Microsoft is dropping their $499 console at the end of this year, I can't see them doing another until 2021 / 2022 or people would be pissed if a new Xbox came in 2020 but Sony is a year in front of them with the Pro and it was only $399, so 2019 / 2020 would be about right for them.
 
U

Ushay

Member
So Sony and MS collectively injected millions into releasing mid gen refreshes just go 'next gen' immediately?

Generations are over. Games like Destiny and mid gen refreshes are living proof of this. The architecture will allow phasing out the lowest common denominator with adequate player populations.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
PhantomZhu said:
this is BS.

I understand why microsoft and Sony are releasing 'super' versions of their console, but making 'super duper' versions is just dumb.

At what point can videogames evolve if we remove generational leaps? It would be WAAAY to confusing for normal consumers to know that some games run on vanilla PS4, meanwhile this game is exclusive to PS4 Pro and over?
Click to expand...

It's not stopped videogames from evolving on other platforms (PC and Mobile) and that model doesn't seem to be confusing anybody on those platforms either considering those are the ones that make the most money.
 
L

lifeexpectancy

Member
aadiboy said:
Xbox One X isn't a next generation system...
Click to expand...

This. And it was simply MS's response to the PS4pro (and to their original power disparity and botched system launch, which is why it was already in developmemt before the Pro released). To think that Sony would be launching a PS5 sooner than their original plans even though the PS4 is still selling like hotcakes just because of XB1X is ridiculous. Its on track to be a 100 million system seller. This entire article is laughable, to say the least.
 
Alexander DeLarge

Alexander DeLarge

Member
I'm more concerned about having a decent processor in the PS5 than a GPU. As we've seen with the PS4 Pro, that can be upgraded. The processor is what is going to last a whole "generation".
 
Shin

Shin

Banned
This article is interesting as it goes hand in hand with Kaz's remark about PlayStation as a platform and them discussing internally as to which direction to take.
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
Ushay said:
So Sony and MS collectively injected millions into releasing mid gen refreshes just go 'next gen' immediately?

Generations are over. Games like Destiny and mid gen refreshes are living proof of this. The architecture will allow phasing out the lowest common denominator with adequate player populations.
Click to expand...

Who are you talking to?
 
K

Kayant

Member
If accurate we finally learn why they went with Jaguar instead of Steamroller -
SIE chose AMD 's small power - saving CPU core Jaguar architecture for PS 4 series. However, this is different from the original plan, and in the initial plan was to become the "Steamroller (steam roller)" core of the Bulldozer (bulldozer) system. And APU of Bulldozer core PS 4 was scheduled to be manufactured at 28 nm of GLOBALFOUNDRIES, not TSMC's 28 nm.

However, at the last minute GLOBALFOUNDRIES '28nm rise was doubtful, SIE and AMD were urged to change the plan in a hurry. As a result, we moved the foundry to TSMC, due to time and engineering constraints, the CPU core was changed to a Jaguar core that is synthesizable already on the TSMC process. The first generation PS 4 architecture was supplemented by doubling the number of CPU cores to reduce the CPU core's ability to reduce.
Click to expand...
Some interesting tidbits here. Thanks for posting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

AMD Zen 5 CPUs Reportedly Made On TSMC’s 3nm Process In Q2, Mass Production In Q3
2
82
6K
Gameplay Gods Bless replied
AMD "Strix Halo" Zen 5 Mobile Processor Pictured
Rumor Analysis
38
2K
DaGwaphics replied
PlayStation 5 Pro to Be Powered by Custom Eight Core Zen 2 CPU, 60 CUs RDNA 3 Hybrid at 2500-2800Mhz – Rumor
News Rumor Platform 4 5 6 7 8
395
30K
HeisenbergFX4 replied
So What is Sony Doing For The PlayStation 6?
2 3 4
171
10K
HighPoly replied
PlayStation 6 Is Planned to Be the Most Powerful Console of Its Generation; Sony Is Only Considering AMD
Rumor Hardware 2 3 4
157
11K
Mexen replied
Top Bottom