ViolentP
Member
In many cases, it is a part of the culture. The men love the women, and the women love to be loved by the men.
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If fighting games want to be mainstream esports, they need less fanservice
- Thread starter DrArchon
- Start date
In many cases, it is a part of the culture. The men love the women, and the women love to be loved by the men.
That game is 100% fan service, just not of the sexual kind
NoctisVsStar
Member
What does this have to do with the conversation ?
I'd be ecstatic if this was the thing to finally stop japanese companies from designing embarrassing female characters, but it'd be so weird in a way. Still, definitely not against it.
And man, after reading the thread, I have to wonder if people bringing the sex and violence discrepancy shit are genuinely this simple minded or just out of decent arguments, yikes.
No, it's fine, some of us outside the US do care and this is one of the few things ingrained in american society that we don't outright despise.
If anything you realizing at a young age that the media uses women as objects of pleasure to get you to buy stuff should be good enough proof that something's off with the way society treats them lol.
I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it firsthand either, but it's absolutely a thing. But the best and worst female character designs threads that were active last week had people defending Quiet's design while being 100% serious.
Video games, man.
And man, after reading the thread, I have to wonder if people bringing the sex and violence discrepancy shit are genuinely this simple minded or just out of decent arguments, yikes.
No, it's fine, some of us outside the US do care and this is one of the few things ingrained in american society that we don't outright despise.
If anything you realizing at a young age that the media uses women as objects of pleasure to get you to buy stuff should be good enough proof that something's off with the way society treats them lol.
I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it firsthand either, but it's absolutely a thing. But the best and worst female character designs threads that were active last week had people defending Quiet's design while being 100% serious.
Video games, man.
Mika has a few TV-friendly costumes already, like her Story costume.
Plenty of people seriously defend Quiet. I love her - best part of MGS V. Best character, best design, best story arc, best shower / rain dancing cutscenes, best melodramatic theme song, best everything.
Like a librarian, I just want more Quiet.
eSports should absolutely not be influencing original base designs.
At the same time, it is absurd that with all of the alternate costumes Capcom have been making they couldn't just make some TV friendly ones in-between their regular output. Give Laura ONE alt where she has a full shirt. Give Cammy ONE alt with pants. Or leggings, or a bodysuit, if you're really going with this running joke of "no pants, ever."
It'll be good to give each character some variety, instead of different flavors in the same wheelhouse of "silly" or "sexy" or "kinda cool, but not very."
At the same time, it is absurd that with all of the alternate costumes Capcom have been making they couldn't just make some TV friendly ones in-between their regular output. Give Laura ONE alt where she has a full shirt. Give Cammy ONE alt with pants. Or leggings, or a bodysuit, if you're really going with this running joke of "no pants, ever."
It'll be good to give each character some variety, instead of different flavors in the same wheelhouse of "silly" or "sexy" or "kinda cool, but not very."
Sexy female character designs are absolutely made with sales in mind due to companies knowing a portion of their target audience expects and wants them, so I don't understand what would be so fucked up about there being changes because these companies want to broadcasts tournaments on TV without issues.
There's no artistic vision nonsense here, it's all $$$.
There's no artistic vision nonsense here, it's all $$$.
Ridiculous. Everyone knows when you pander to people who want to ogle and objectify digital women it's artistic and creative freedom. When you pander to mainstream sponsors, it's censorship and fascism.
...it's $$$
Brawndo Addict
Banned
This is just from the worst female character design thread from the last month. You are either lying or one of the most oblivious persons on GAF if you sincerely have no recollection of the constant Quiet defenders/arguments we have had on this site over the years about it. And this is after the game has been out for a couple years. It was way, way worse when the game was first being marketed and released. People took Kojima's words & deeds as gospel ("he said there's a reason for it, what's the big deal") and thought "she has to breathe through her skin" was a 100% perfect justification. Hell, you can see some people still believe that.
Well damn, at least half what you quoted is "i like her, but she's a bad character".
Tye The Czar
Member
It's our puritan roots.
As for our fascination with violence, I have no idea. Probably might have to do with winning WWII.
It's not just that. Especially in discussions like this one, with games in the mix.
(I'm not a woman, so forgive me if I get this wrong).
I think women just don't want to be thought of as nothing more than tits and ass. That's it. If all, or the vast majority, of media that is out there for men (and women) to consume prominently features nothing but scantily clad sexed-up female characters, then it makes real-life women feel that that's all men are interested in, that's all they see, expect, want, and care about. And no woman should have to feel that way.
Galactic Specter
Member
Pretty much.
It's also that we all have different ideas of what's ideal, and we're not seeing our ideals in the mix because they're so damn focused on sexing up all the ladies. I never get to see female characters with builds like these ladies in most games:
And that's just bloody infuriating. It's completely off-putting. It's incredibly transparent how the devs view women when literally NONE of the women have a body patterned after actual female athletes or even MMA fighters, or hell, like in the case of Dead or Alive they're not even allowed to have visible muscle definition, which says just about all that needs to be said on the matter.
It's always sexed up boobs and hips and ass to hell and back, with maybe some muscle definition if you're lucky (Street Fighter V being the only one notable for this and even then every female character is sexed up). There is not a single character I can self-insert as in most series and that's a damn shame. You have a cast running in the dozens in many cases and still they can't even design a single character that appeals to me? That's not gonna work.
This is why I spend so much more time in games with character creation: because I can actually make someone who isn't just designed for straight-male consumption. It's a huge, super-important deal to me. Wish every fighting game had something on the level of Soul Calibur IV and V. But that wouldn't even be necessary if their base character designs just weren't so damn... pandering.
It's just tiresome shit at this point, man. Tiresome shit.
I don't give a shit about esports but fuck fanservice and fuck opinions like this that encourage and enable sexualised shlock.
America is afraid of tits OR asses. Put the two together, and they are completely paralyzed with terror. Their political system is a metaphor for this.
Although some people would lose their minds, I would be A-OK with them replacing the 'default' costume for a few characters (like Cammy and Mika) to something more TV-friendly - just leave the classic outfits in as extras. Removing stuff from the game is bad, but options are good. Make the default whatever you need.
In the case of Cammy, honestly... I love that character, she's my main and always has been, but the cargo pants look used in some official art/a lot of cosplay/the SF movie from the 90s is actually arguably better. I've always felt the leotard thing is dumb, especially in her Delta Red design.
This is a better alternate than that dress as it perfectly shows what kind of character Cammy is while giving her a more modest outfit for the esports crowd. Change the pants to green and it's perfect.
For Chun-Li, they simply need to add her Alpha outfit to the game.
trickyhero
Member
Gotta keep the lewd stuff to the sports center magazine with people in bathing suits or even nude. 
Valkerionseven
Member
In general I think SFV ladies don't need sexy costumes every time they get an alt, and would like to see that change. But no I don't think fighting games need to change their character designs for something as nonsense as American TV standards.
Virtual boobs and butts are a no-go but the channel that is supposed to be upholding some standard of decency is the same one that sponsors swimsuit issues of magazines and hosts sporting events with beautiful cheerleaders and what not... hmm. Seems like old men touting the games are for children bs.
Virtual boobs and butts are a no-go but the channel that is supposed to be upholding some standard of decency is the same one that sponsors swimsuit issues of magazines and hosts sporting events with beautiful cheerleaders and what not... hmm. Seems like old men touting the games are for children bs.
Chingachgook
Banned
Last night at EVO, we had a repeat of last year's performance. Not from the players, but from ESPN. We had them come up on stage and say to the players "Hey, would you mind changing your costume? We can't show this chick's asshole hanging out on national television."
Thus, instead of Kazunoko rocking classic green leotard Cammy for most of top 8, we instead saw the classy alt costume you see above. Last year, a similar incident occurred with a player using R. Mika and being forced to switch to a slightly less revealing outfit. Again, not a huge loss. But it begs the question. What if there wasn't a suitable alt? What if the character in question was Laura, with her boobs hanging out? Would they have let it rock, or would they have actually said "No, you have to switch"?
Shouldn't Capcom and other fighting game developers be getting the message at this point? Their games can't be on TV with women dressed like this or this, but they still keep putting these character designs in their games and making deals for big esports appearances.
This seems to be a problem unique to fighting games, to me at least. MOBAs don't zoom in on the character models enough for any problematic designs to be noticeable, Rocket League doesn't have humans, FPS move so fast as to make focusing on any single character model almost impossible (and only Overwatch has any sexy women for the most part). But stupid sexy women are fighting game culture at this point. They've been there since the beginning. Some franchises are built off of them, like Dead of Alive and numerous smaller anime titles.
It's one thing to have alt costumes be sexy. Those can easily be banned. But Capcom needs to make sure that default costumes are fit for all ages to look at, and they need to make sure that every female character has a least one costume that's OK to look at on TV. That's my idea anyway.
I'm pretty tired of being told I cant enjoy a good looking character OP. People like you ruin the experience of games beyond this limited thinking. (Not a personal attack but let us consider the data):
How many European and Asian countries have naked women on their regular TV stations? Is our USA culture so PURE we cant have some influences from other countries? Have other cultures develop a game they like, and a fan base grow from their creation? Of course they have, but now that have to change it for the USA/DISNEY/ESPN?
No we all have to be the same. BORING and not true sense of freedom. These characters are iconic, if ESPN and DISNEY can't accept them then see how they freak out when a they try showcasing a FPS with guns taking out pixel heads.
Instead of caving, and acting like it's a sin to enjoy beautiful women (Or men) i would hope more players realize in a global community, our idea of "Proper" culture is not another's, and if developers were all the same, and all games had to conform to the morality police... Well that would be a very boring world. And one I would hope everyone would fight against.
None of us have to be the person we were five minutes ago, I hope we can grow to accept different strokes for different folks is an ok thing.
P.S. For the internet to provide an eclectic offering, if some morality police ever visited R KAPPA their heads would explode. But thank god for a place like R KAPPA, it's like the Wild West, and I'm ok with that, it just words, pictures, and in the end entertainment.
Presumably most of y'all would like esports to be taken seriously, right? Like it or not, the fanservice stuff is a major obstacle on that path, especially when it's being broadcast on a kid channel. Complain all you want about double standards and sex/violence- American culture isn't going to change drastically any time soon. No reason why Capcom and others can't tone it down for more mainstream consumption. I like the idea of official esports costumes for each character. Give it a more standardized look.
A bit late with the answer but: no, they do not.
So sexualized and full of fanservice....
That's a silly argument to say that normal sports overtly sexualize women to any degree or extent that video games in general do. The women in beach volleyball choose what they wear, and their attire has a functional purpose. The models in fighting games do not. What they wear is chosen for them by the designer. Show me a female who battles on the front lines in a war or fights wearing clothes like Cammy or Laura. Even female UFC fighters wear clothing that is functional.
https://www.bustle.com/articles/171...l-dress-code-heres-how-the-rules-have-changed
ESPN had bare asses plastered every where last week when pushing their body issue. I don't think it's an issue that will hold anything back. LoL is chock full of fan service and NA LCS looks like it will be the closest thing esports has to an American pro sports league for a while.
Banana Aeon
Member
Alisa has a modeled labia.
I'm so over this horndog mentality of "literally all fighting game women have to be porn parody shit designs". Sexy characters are fine, but sheer idiocy like nipple-less topless R. Mika or comic sans bonita Laura are just too much. Just imagine if the norm for male fighters was bouncy bulges with their respective poses and camera angles, it's pretty much the same thing. So yeah, props to Tekken because it proves you can have sexy characters without going downright stupid, and in that sense I'm glad it's selling well unlike the now DOA-level Street Fighter V.
The Lone Dragon
Member
SF5 has already been on television multiple times, in multiple countries.
So, clearly it's not the obstacle you think it is.
"Sexualized shlock" is going to be on my next business card. I like the ring of that.
Stilton Disco
Member
While I don't disagree with the broad notion of fighting games needing to massively reign in the over abundance of sexually objectified female characters, man, Americans have such an unhealthy phobia of sex.
Banana Aeon
Member
Dude, people don't understand how huge of a perv Harada is. After Tekken 5, the lewd train took off in the series.
The Lone Dragon
Member
Didn't Harada straight up say at a panel that people can use to camera function in 3DS Tekken to oogle at Xiaoyu?
Lol, I don't know where Tekken got this "innocent" rep from.
Plenty of fanservice and not-safe-for-ESPN outfits/customization elements in that series.
Even if he is (and I don't doubt it, that's the norm for middle aged Japanese developers, it seems) I'm not greeted by tacky, ridiculous, cringey sexual pandering whenever I play Tekken 7. I can't say that about SFV. I'm okay with Tekken 7 levels of fanservice, I guess.
The key difference is that it doesn't say Street Fighter V on the box
Idk, Alisa being a literal waifu robot and Josie's inexplicable moe crying is some dumbass cringy pandering from my persepective, but I guess these things (personalities) don't bother people as much as R. Mika's costume
Banana Aeon
Member
Hoya Destroyer
Member
Sexy female characters make games more fun for me, so I hope they dont leave the Street Fighter franchise.
Since SFV came out, Capcom havent released any DLC costumes that show off the girls asses like default Cammy and Mika do (wetsuit Kolin is the closest). Combine that with what has become of SFV Juri (covered up cleavage on her default costume and covered side-boob on her retro costume) and I think they are already heading in a non-sexy direction.
Even though I hate the ESPN censorship, I wouldnt be too mad if Capcom just made a non-sexy outfit for each female character, to appease those guys.
Since SFV came out, Capcom havent released any DLC costumes that show off the girls asses like default Cammy and Mika do (wetsuit Kolin is the closest). Combine that with what has become of SFV Juri (covered up cleavage on her default costume and covered side-boob on her retro costume) and I think they are already heading in a non-sexy direction.
Even though I hate the ESPN censorship, I wouldnt be too mad if Capcom just made a non-sexy outfit for each female character, to appease those guys.
Once again I'm not saying there's no pandering, but Josie's personality vs. Mika being basically naked and attacked hardcore by the camera are of course different kinds of pandering. There's no porn featuring fully clothed females being nervous with no other sexual innuendo. Mika is a porn parody wrestler.
What the fuck? Like, serious question here.
I think the difference is actually there are a bunch of characters who are not that.
Josie is cute, but she's not a literal waifu robot, then you have leo... who is exactly not that. Then you also have the option to just... dress them more conservatively if you so choose
where in street fighter, there is little variation, and you have to pay 4 bucks a pop for... more sexy costumes...horray...
It isn't the existence people have issues with, its the lack of variety
Although some people would lose their minds, I would be A-OK with them replacing the 'default' costume for a few characters (like Cammy and Mika) to something more TV-friendly - just leave the classic outfits in as extras. Removing stuff from the game is bad, but options are good. Make the default whatever you need.
In the case of Cammy, honestly... I love that character, she's my main and always has been, but the cargo pants look used in some official art/a lot of cosplay/the SF movie from the 90s is actually arguably better. I've always felt the leotard thing is dumb, especially in her Delta Red design.
Mods do good work
Banana Aeon
Member
Tekken VR allows you to perv on your favorite, pose them for your carnal pleasure, or watch them get beaten up so you get off to your sick degenerate fetish.
fair. Capcom should really be releasing way more costumes, bigger variety, at a better price