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I think it's time to shed the idea that Street Fighter V is a bad game.

SephLuis

Member
This is some amazing twist of reality.

I mostly play local so those 'earned' are actually all pay and SFV is a rip off unless you like really lagging behind in content and wait for a sale, I ain't even touched Akuma still.

Just because you don't touch the FM model, doesn't mean it doesn't work.
You insist on paying for everything, which is an option, but it's not the only one.

I might be mistaken about this, but I think you can do a few things while offline and, once online, the server will give you the FM. So if you did story mode offline, just playing something of it will give you the FM you were supposed to gain.

It's not that I barely play, it's SFV trying to force what players do with their playtime and just having a shitty pay model compared to SFIV.

Not everything to gain FM is fun, but it's still better than having to pay.

SFIV was £40+25+12+12 = £89 for all characters day 1.

SFV will be £40+25+25+25+25+25 = £165 for all characters day 1.

Or SF V will be £40 + 2*25.
Or will be just £40 if you just use FM

It will be some value between £40 and £165 because of the current model of the game using FM. SF IV has a fixed cost of £89.
 

Marceles

Member
This is actually the knock this game gets. It's catered to the simple, so most things that would give someone their own style or characteristics while using a character is completely toned down.

Sako's Chun or Akuma can't really be told apart from any other one, this goes with any just about any other person's character, unless you want to compare lameness to explosive offense. In SF4, you could tell his Cammy, Ibuki, Evil Ryu, and Elena from anyone else's. While 1 frame links were difficult to most in SF4, it's the player's choice to even use them. People felt like they shouldn't even use a character because if they didn't know how to consistently land something, then why use the character.

The biggest difference in anyone's gameplay in SFV is confirms. Tokido is so good at confirming cr mp or st mk into whatever he wants, which is why his throw mixup game just looks ridiculous. Grand finals was crazy because he beat Punk with cr mp into throw, or cr mp into confirming into another button + ex dp v-trigger fireball mixup.

Like...it's not a bad game, the term bad is pushing it. SFV just feels like a step back from previous games. It's just different in a non-interesting way. It doesn't feel like it lets a person play how they want to play and feels like it nerfs a person who feels like they want to do more. After playing SF4 for so many years, it feels like this game is the Morgana from P5 of fighting games. You want to do more, but the game tells you to go to sleep because this is all you have for the day...and maybe you'll have more in the future.

It's not a bad game, just not fully fleshed out one.
 

crash-14

Member
Kof 13 is a beautiful game, but they decided to make Kof14 3d and it doesn't look good. Yes, low budget, but why make it 3d while you don't have a budget to make it pretty? Bad decision, but no one will blame them because they aren't Capcom.

This has to be the most stupid statement I read regarding other game while trying to defend SFV.

"Hey, let's not launch KoFXIV cause we don't have resorces to make it pretty".

Then why the hell it's Capcom even trying with MvC:I it's going to look like shit compared to 3?
 
It takes two to tango. Congrats to both of you on being young again.

My accusation is in the literal sense.

SFIV models aren't the best but the significance was that it was the first transition into 3D. And it changed the common outlook that 2D fighting games were dead. It's something as significant as the transition of Mario to Mario 64.

Someone who can't recognize that transition, was probably too young to notice.
 

MrCarter

Member
Just because you don't touch the FM model, doesn't mean it doesn't work.
You insist on paying for everything, which is an option, but it's not the only one.

I might be mistaken about this, but I think you can do a few things while offline and, once online, the server will give you the FM. So if you did story mode offline, just playing something of it will give you the FM you were supposed to gain.

No point trying to explain something to someone who doesn't want to understand. Not worth it.
 
This has to be the most stupid statement I read regarding other game while trying to defend SFV.

"Hey, let's not launch KoFXIV cause we don't have resorces to make it pretty".

hey wouldn't it be nice if other games just didn't exist at all

then we could keep saying Capcom saved fighting games from the "dark ages" that weren't even a thing in the first place
 

Forward

Member
Street Fighter V is a better game than Street Fighter 1. There. I said something nice about Street Fighter V.

There is something to be said for being first, and lacking the benefit of several decades of technological advancement your alleged successor has. Lou Ferrigno was a tiny hulk, compared to CGI Ruffalo, after all. What is the fair and proper scale to measure such wide gaps?

I'd argue SF1 trumps SFV, if put into such perspective. Heck, it even had the first, best, and only good, much less aesthetically sound, iteration of Birdie.

SFV is SF1.5 30 years later, minus the valid DPs.
 

Big0Bear

Member
Kof 13 is a beautiful game, but they decided to make Kof14 3d and it doesn't look good. Yes, low budget, but why make it 3d while you don't have a budget to make it pretty? Bad decision, but no one will blame them because they aren't Capcom.

What are you talking about hella people shit on kof. 13 was beautiful but it's harder to make sprites than 3D models or so I've heard. Champ was making fun of the graphics and yet defends mvci

Kof gets a pass because they tried and did well. Both 13 and 14 have moderate amounts of Dlc. 14 has online play 50 characters and worked day fucking one. So yea I love them for it. Same with tekken they are making the games fans want and giving them a little extra whereas ( sadly) capcom has been making platforms to sell massive amounts of dlc no matter how finished the game is
 
I think I am one of the few people in this site who is neutral for sfv. I praise what I think is good and call them out on what I think is bad. But most people are rabid defenders or haters from my observation. Who is the president of sfv lover the dragon guy or the new guy that ZTS claimed that he may be an alt of the dragon character. I would nominate ZTS for hater president. Dryeyerelief guy tries but he can't hate on sfv like zts lol.
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
It has been said before, but the fact that you cite Survival and Story modes as adequate SP content makes me believe that you have no idea of why people like me find SFV lacking.
 

poodaddy

Member
I need Punk to win next year. His quivering lip went straight to my heart and made me feel a level of sadness that I wasn't expecting. He really wanted it man, and he worked so hard for it. You can tell it hurt so bad dude. Not gonna lie, I got emotional watching him get his medal dude, and I think the officiator could feel it too as he definitely was trying to calm him down. Fuck man.....

I just really need him to take Evo next year. Train Punk, hit it hard and earn it next year; you got this. Amazing top 8 this year.
 
Hand-waving Arcade mode complaints with what basically amounts to "it doesn't affect me so who cares", is not the way to go about making a case about why people should care about the game.

Also:
WeIjXOX.jpg


Targets and Extra Battle challenges will be available soon after launch, with Battle Tips and Trials coming in March.
"Soon"

It's been 17 months.
 
It has been said before, but the fact that you cite Survival and Story modes as adequate SP content makes me believe that you have no idea of why people like me find SFV lacking.

I think they could be adequate if they were at all well made. Story mode one shots per character are a freaking joke, 2 or maybe 3 fights with no animations just still shots. Full story mode is clearly just them checking boxes of cutscene and fight multiple times. The motion capture, plot, characterization, and visuals of it all leave so much to be desired its ridiculous. They were "listening" and "taking notes" of what the competition did and what fans wanted and we got a half attempt at it. If they really want to catch some praise for it they would put some time and effort into a second chapter with the dlc characters included for context, but we know they won't.

Survival is just pure waste of time and does not respect the amount of time it takes for a person to play it let alone beat it.

All their modes have been done better else where sadly. Everything about it feels like checking boxes off without much thought of "wait is this actually good or fun?" I agree though there are a bunch of other reasons their single player offerings are lacking.
 
Btw guys does anyone know if there has been mention of proper PS4 Pro support?

Because it's a fucking embarrassment to see base PS4s up there at Evo playing what is in many ways a second party game.
 
This has to be the most stupid statement I read regarding other game while trying to defend SFV.

"Hey, let's not launch KoFXIV cause we don't have resorces to make it pretty".

Then why the hell it's Capcom even trying with MvC:I it's going to look like shit compared to 3?

lol you didn't understand what was my point. I said if SNK don't have the budget they should have made it 2d instead of 3d.

Technically MvC: I looks better than MvC3, but artistically MvC 3 looks more appealing. Also, they are improving the game's look. Check Ryu's new super animation in MvC:I:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om54lZshoic

What are you talking about hella people shit on kof. 13 was beautiful but it's harder to make sprites than 3D models or so I've heard. Champ was making fun of the graphics and yet defends mvci

Kof gets a pass because they tried and did well. Both 13 and 14 have moderate amounts of Dlc. 14 has online play 50 characters and worked day fucking one. So yea I love them for it. Same with tekken they are making the games fans want and giving them a little extra whereas ( sadly) capcom has been making platforms to sell massive amounts of dlc no matter how finished the game is

Not true. Anyway this thread isn't about Kof.
 

ec0ec0

Member

sorry bonchan. He was the other one that i had in mind regarding fireball game in SFIV. It's just that daigo's results were way more impressive. In later SFIV, when bonchan was already really famous, daigo was still the one winning most of the stuff in japan. For example, bonchan won topanga league once, while daigo won most of the topanga/world leagues.
 

un1que

Member
I had this game at launch, tried it for a week then moved on. But After watching some evo im thinking of jumping back in and getting the dlc while it's on sale.

I know the holiday and evo 2016 was timed limited dlc on the store but is there still any way to get it in game? It's mainly the backgrounds I'm after.
Just wondering what stuff I'll never be able to gain or purchase.
 
Definitely funny the way some people remember things (or imagine how they went down if they weren't around at the time). Street Fighter III left all but the truly dedicated hard core pretty cold when it came out. Street Fighter II was a phenomenon, the Alpha series kept the momentum, but SF III just about destroyed the franchise. It's fondly looked back on because nothing (except maybe MotW) ever came close to that level of hand drawn animation again and because of its high execution level, but at the time the characters all looked weird AF and people hated that they got rid of all their faves except Ryu & Ken. And it felt really slow compared to recent prior games, people had gotten used to turbo speeds.

Third Strike came out in 1999. There wouldn't be a direct sequel until SF IV hit arcades in 2008. That should tell you all you need to know about how much damage it did to the brand.

And really...it was cool but as others have mentioned it was totally unbalanced, with 3, maybe 4 viable characters at high levels. The internet would savage it if it were out today. Meanwhile, SF V had what...9 different characters in the top 8? And only one shoto? It's got to be the best balanced SF ever in that regard.
 
I might be mistaken about this, but I think you can do a few things while offline and, once online, the server will give you the FM. So if you did story mode offline, just playing something of it will give you the FM you were supposed to gain.

Can anyone confirm this?
Not trying to start a fight - I'd love it if this is the case as SFV networking is (for some reason) blocked in my office. I could earn some FM at lunch if this is the case.
 

sephi22

Member
Kof 13 is a beautiful game, but they decided to make Kof14 3d and it doesn't look good. Yes, low budget, but why make it 3d while you don't have a budget to make it pretty? Bad decision, but no one will blame them because they aren't Capcom.

Online has problems even after they patched it, it isn't perfect and it isn't better than SFV in regards to net code.

Also Capcom said season 2 character are all new and the old requested characters will be back in season 3 (according to the rumors and leaks). So far Kolin and Ed are popular.
Bro what? They made it 3d because that saves cost. If they'd tried to make it 2d they'd have like 8 characters total. If they'd tried to make it look like a flash game people like you would still be calling it cheap or bad looking.

Netcode doesn't have any issues. I have a 20MBPS down connection in Dubai and I play with a guy from Poland and another from Russia with barely any lag. Two days ago I played a person from Phoenix Arizona and there was a slight slowdown but nothing unmanageable

Meanwhile anything less than 4bars is a teleporting mess in SFV

This has to be the most stupid statement I read regarding other game while trying to defend SFV.

"Hey, let's not launch KoFXIV cause we don't have resorces to make it pretty".

Then why the hell it's Capcom even trying with MvC:I it's going to look like shit compared to 3?
Haha I feel the same way but I didn't want to be mean.

lol you didn't understand what was my point. I said if SNK don't have the budget they should have made it 2d instead of 3d.
Oh. My. God.
We've found someone who thinks 2d sprites are cheaper than 3d models. The reason they went 3d for KOF14 in the first place is because 3d is cheaper than 2d like 12/13.

A 2d Sprite has to be hand drawn and modified for each frame of animation. That is prohibitively long and expensive. Meanwhile for 3d you can just make a 3d model and animate them using motion capture or other means.

Just because 2d has 1 less dimension doesn't mean it's cheaper lol
 
Bro what? They made it 3d because that saves cost. If they'd tried to make it 2d they'd have like 8 characters total. If they'd tried to make it look like a flash game people like you would still be calling it cheap or bad looking.

Netcode doesn't have any issues. I have a 20MBPS down connection in Dubai and I play with a guy from Poland and another from Russia with barely any lag. Two days ago I played a person from Phoenix Arizona and there was a slight slowdown but nothing unmanageable

Meanwhile anything less than 4bars is a teleporting mess in SFV


Haha I feel the same way but I didn't want to be mean.


Oh. My. God.
We've found someone who thinks 2d sprites are cheaper than 3d models. The reason they went 3d for KOF14 in the first place is because 3d is cheaper than 2d like 12/13.


A 2d Sprite has to be hand drawn and modified for each frame of animation. That is prohibitively long and expensive. Meanwhile for 3d you can just make a 3d model and animate them using motion capture or other means.

Just because 2d has 1 less dimension doesn't mean it's cheaper lol

Not correct, I live in Jordan and play against people in Europe regularly and the connection is great in SFV. In online gaming, ping is more important than connection speed (the lower your ping, the better), I have 10MBPS connection speed and have been playing the game daily without major issues. I only play against people with 4 - 5 bars and it's the right thing to do. Kof14 online play has problems, there is no roll backs, but slow motion matches and freezing in online matches. Last week, I played SFV with a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia with 3 bars connection and it was very playable.

You have no prove that if they made Kof14 a 2D game it will cost them more than 3d. It doesn't have to be the most beautiful 2d fighting game ever, but I think it would look better than what we got with kof14.

One last thing, look at Guilty Gear Xrd, I don't think they have much bigger budget than kof14, but they made it 3d and it looks beautiful.

Edit: A lot of 3d games doesn't use motion capture and are animated by hand.
 
Can anyone confirm this?
Not trying to start a fight - I'd love it if this is the case as SFV networking is (for some reason) blocked in my office. I could earn some FM at lunch if this is the case.

I believe its wrong. The only thing that changed is that if you get disconnected during survival, on completion it asked to attempt to connect again and if you do that you can get the FM from it.

Its never been an issue for me so I havn't kept to upto date on it but I think you pretty much still need to be online.

Edit

in regard to people talking about connections. SFV is pretty good online as long as you have decent internet. And by that I dont mean speed I mean ping and jitter. The amount of data being sent to each other isnt large so have a large down speed isn't what its about. You need it to be fast and consistant. This is why people hate wifi users because while you may get a fast ping there will almost definately be jitter where it bounces high every now and then due to packet loss and jitter. Those matches where you are fighting someone and its going great and just as you start the combo the teleporting starts and fucks you over. Thats not SFV, thats the other person having a shit connection.

I personally hate slow down as well. Like playing the game through sludge, its horrid. With roll back you can keep all your timings correct. It will of course vary from person to person but the vast majority of my matches run really well.

They need to change the bar system as its mostly pointless. I had a 5 bar connection yesterday where the guy was teleporting all over the place. Then I had a 1 bar connection that ran perfectly fine.
 

ibrahima

Banned
Fight money is a compromise between people having to pay for additional content and being able to unlock shit.

It's a compromise, capcom still wants your money and it still costs money to provide servers and network infrastructure, no matter how bad they are.

If you're unlocking characters by grinding out fight money, that's great, but the model has been structured so that you eventually have to pay if you want to keep up with character releases.

Other games make different compromises, DOA skews towards having a massive costume library which appeals to a niche fanbase to provide an income stream. Tekken made a percentage of its development budget back by staying in arcades for two years prior to a home release and offers a season pass for post launch content. MVCI reuses existing character models from MVC3 and offers a season pass for post launch content.

All of the current generation of fighting games are trying different approaches, and they all seem to have drawbacks and shortcomings. This is the price of moving away from having disc based updates.
 

RS4-

Member
Definitely funny the way some people remember things (or imagine how they went down if they weren't around at the time). Street Fighter III left all but the truly dedicated hard core pretty cold when it came out. Street Fighter II was a phenomenon, the Alpha series kept the momentum, but SF III just about destroyed the franchise. It's fondly looked back on because nothing (except maybe MotW) ever came close to that level of hand drawn animation again and because of its high execution level, but at the time the characters all looked weird AF and people hated that they got rid of all their faves except Ryu & Ken. And it felt really slow compared to recent prior games, people had gotten used to turbo speeds.

Third Strike came out in 1999. There wouldn't be a direct sequel until SF IV hit arcades in 2008. That should tell you all you need to know about how much damage it did to the brand.

And really...it was cool but as others have mentioned it was totally unbalanced, with 3, maybe 4 viable characters at high levels. The internet would savage it if it were out today. Meanwhile, SF V had what...9 different characters in the top 8? And only one shoto? It's got to be the best balanced SF ever in that regard.

This is the same horse shit people use to excuse 3s.
 

Big0Bear

Member
lol you didn't understand what was my point. I said if SNK don't have the budget they should have made it 2d instead of 3d.

Technically MvC: I looks better than MvC3, but artistically MvC 3 looks more appealing. Also, they are improving the game's look. Check Ryu's new super animation in MvC:I:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om54lZshoic



Not true. Anyway this thread isn't about Kof.

Is true. Of course this isn't about kof but if the example I give has a point then it's relevant so you're welcome
 

lupinko

Member
Do you just ignore the SFIV comparisons which show how shitty SFV pricing is?


Bollocks.

Nope, there's more than enough with the default 16 character's story mode, trials vol1&2, easy and normal survival and the shadow falls story mode, not even forgetting the character demo stuff and the weekly missions.

You're just hating for the sake of hating.
 

Hutchie

Member
People have differing views on the game ranging from sp content, to the online, to the gameplay. Its not a bad game imo by any stretch, heck i think its one of best street fighter games ever made (from a gameplay perspective). The game has only been out a year and people are now developing their styles. Looks at punk's karin for example, mago states he is miles off doing what he does. Nuckle du and daigo's guiles are chalk and cheese

From my perspective the game does need a bit more sp content and more solid online (last night was brutal for me)
 

Reani

Member
i think the main thing people ignore and dont even factor when talking about fight money model, is that fight money is only worse if you want to have everything (every character, every stage etc) because you have to pay more.
but if you only want certain things and dont need everything - its the best system you could ever ask for.

i own juri,ibuki and kolin, a few stages and a few costumes i wanted. i still have 600k fight money available to buy anything else if i want it in the future. hell, i can buy almost all dlc characters right now.

i only used real money on 1 swimsuit costume, since its not available for FM.

for a person like me - that system is perfect. and i am pretty sure i am not the only one who doesnt care about owning EVERYTHING.

this system is definitely miles ahead of overwatch crap, where you cant buy things you want even for real money. have to pray for RNG. (and dont even mention overwatch coins, its an insulting system)
 
i think the main thing people ignore and dont even factor when talking about fight money model, is that fight money is worse if you want to have everything (every character, every stage etc) because you have to pay more.
but if you only want certain things and dont need everything - its the best system you could ever ask for.

i own juri,ibuki and kolin, a few stages and a few costumes i wanted. i still have 600k fight money available to buy anything else if i want it in the future. hell, i can buy almost all dlc characters right now.

i only used real money on 1 swimsuit costume, since its not available for FM.

for a person like me - that system is perfect. and i am pretty sure i am not the only one who doesnt care about owning EVERYTHING.

this system is definitely miles ahead of overwatch crap, where you cant buy things you want even for real money. have to pray for RNG. (and dont even mention overwatch coins, its an insulting system)

100%

I don't want a custom for a character I'm not interested to play as, and I will buy characters I want to play and the stages that I want . In online matches if the opponent bought a stage you don't have and he/she selected it as a default stage, you will play against him/her on his/her stage. So even if you don't buy every stage, you will get the chance to play on stages you don't have. But I have one thing I want them to add, in practice mode you should select unlocked characters to train against.
 

mnemonicj

Member
There's no need to defend Capcom, they're an international company that has been making these games for decades.
Also, it is so easy to dismiss the claims a lot of people are making as just hate. There is definitely something happening and it's basically up to Capcom to figure it out.
 
i think the main thing people ignore and dont even factor when talking about fight money model, is that fight money is only worse if you want to have everything (every character, every stage etc) because you have to pay more.
but if you only want certain things and dont need everything - its the best system you could ever ask for.

i own juri,ibuki and kolin, a few stages and a few costumes i wanted. i still have 600k fight money available to buy anything else if i want it in the future. hell, i can buy almost all dlc characters right now.

i only used real money on 1 swimsuit costume, since its not available for FM.

for a person like me - that system is perfect. and i am pretty sure i am not the only one who doesnt care about owning EVERYTHING.

this system is definitely miles ahead of overwatch crap, where you cant buy things you want even for real money. have to pray for RNG. (and dont even mention overwatch coins, its an insulting system)

As someone who wants all the characters and just buys them with real money I completely agree. Its the best balance that any of the fighting games out there are offereing.

I just buy the DLC seasons and I even bought the CPT 2017 bundle as I like to support the game and have all the content. spending £20 on this game twice a year is totally fine to me for a game I play so much. While at the same time people who dont want to do that can buy the base game, only play Ryu and use him in his default costume and colour till SF6 comes out if thats what they want and be fine. It works for a much wider veriety of people.
 

FSLink

Banned
You have no prove that if they made Kof14 a 2D game it will cost them more than 3d. It doesn't have to be the most beautiful 2d fighting game ever, but I think it would look better than what we got with kof14.

One last thing, look at Guilty Gear Xrd, I don't think they have much bigger budget than kof14, but they made it 3d and it looks beautiful.

Edit: A lot of 3d games doesn't use motion capture and are animated by hand.

....What. Oh my god. No, you're absolutely incorrect here.
 

qcf x2

Member
I kinda feel like I'm inspired to make this thread after the Evo Top 8 last night. I've been playing the game since it launched, and while I can agree that the launch was AWFUL, the game itself is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, and the Capcom hate is ridiculous and out of control.

Firstly, almost every single problem that the game had at launch has been addressed, outside of the request for an arcade mode. In my opinion, that doesn't really matter anyway, because you can just play survival mode for an "arcade" experience and if you care about story, you'll just play the story mode. Online has been improved. Modes have been added. Online metrics are better.

It also feels like there are so many common complaints. "The game is entirely offense based, there aren't many options, blah blah blah." To that I just really wonder if people actually watched Evo this year, or if they really actually give a shit about the game at all. Yeah, the game puts an emphasis on offense, but not in a broken way. Also, the fact that sooooooooo many people seem to cite pro players and their dislike for the game (despite that their opinion is basically irrelevant due to their inherent bias) is ridiculous.

I'm just going to bold the rest because I know that people probably won't read the entire OP, and I know I can't really adequately communicate everything needed, especially in a forum post.

I'm not saying the game doesn't have problems. I'm just saying that the hate for this game borders on ridiculous, and it's still a really entertaining, really fun game to play.

EVO Top 8, for anyone who actually wants to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec8yHxCT_tk&feature=youtu.be new link that has decent audio.

Nice, so because you liked the Top 8 at Evo, it's time to say the game is good, which you believed from the start anyway. Got it.

They fixed the PSX load times between everything and menu changes/matchmaking/VS screens now load in times befitting the year 2017? Sweet. They fixed those "touching but not hitting" hitboxes that are everywhere? Dang, Capcom is doing things. They decided to amend their store pricing to make it less of a pure money grab? Capcom, you've finally changed! And those DLC characters are so appealing right now, the big guy and the weird kid, future franchise staples. Arcade mode and not "you can versus CPU! Same thing!" and not the weird story mode thing? Complete. Polished. Product.

All this because of your enjoyment of Top 8, I see the light now. Who knows how good this game will be after Capcom Cup! Greatest game of all time? It's not like you're being intentionally tonedeaf about the issues people have with the game, instead pretending like the majority dislike it from a gameplay perspective.

Previously I said the OP was right. Now I'd like to elaborate slightly.

Many people just don't understand that Street Fighter V is a duelling game about one hit kills.

Everything else is just a glancing hit or a near miss.

It's a game about mastering space and controlling the opponent, as well as making the right guesses based on their behaviour. Countering all this (guessing the guess) is of course the full circle of the loop.

SFV's "crush counter" is such a double edged sword, but it's a beautiful thing. For me, I really disagree with the opinions of this game as aggression heavy and I think the CC promotes defence. It's why I tell new players never to play as Shotos. They kill themselves with DPs. In SFV, the DP has to be used smartly or completely randomly. The latter rarely works against an experienced player consistently. The former is very hard to achieve for many players. So this is a big change and I see where it would piss people off, but effectively it's making the thought behind mechanics more meaningful.

So when you play SF at a high level, you expect to lose / win at any moment. The next hit could always kill. That's the idea. Fair not to like it, but moreso I feel it is intensely misunderstood. Potentially, SF has *always* been like this - have to think about it more - it's just SFV really focused down on it.

A lot of players, and this is partially a generational thing as well, have a hard time accepting their failure and how easily it seems to come. They don't want to spend the time to get better, and the truth is the internet is really misleading for them in a lot of ways. At locals I recently played a Ken who had been at it maybe 1 year. His fundamentals were absolutely awful. He had watched a lot of videos about tech and was so focused on "setups" and getting in in weird creative ways that I just sonned him so hard, over and over again. And no, I don't have setups either. He was a nice guy and we talked a lot and tried to impart on him some simple wisdom. SFV is mostly about movement. The offence is really hard to see past, but your ultimate goal isn't to be "good at offence". On top of that, because of the extreme echo chamber effect, there is too little belief in defence, which is still a core skill in this game. Don't believe me? Go online and just downback. Don't press anything. Throw anyone that comes close. You just made it to Super Silver with your eyes closed.

For me, SFV is without a doubt my favourite fighting game of the last decade. I've played fighting games since SFII, almost always very casually with brothers and friends, and tried pretty much every major release. VF, Smash, Tekken, SC, BB, GG, MvC and many others. Personally, I've never played a FG I didn't have fun with to some extent, but I have very few that really stuck with me.

From what I see, SFV is a harder game that most SFs have been when it comes to winning consistently. Rush down is extremely easy to blow up at a certain point and so the game falls back on a neutral wish really punishes bad decisions. I think a lot of people spent a lot of time playing the game with very near-sighted goals (I want to win!) and were mad at the game for it not being easy. When that happened, they got even angrier that the SP-side was light.

SFV is a masterpiece in my estimation. The release was a massive failure, but the game is excellent.

- Lots of new unique characters which are actually cool and, you know, UNIQUE. Most fighting games go their entire lives without adding 1 new character to their original roster that is good.

- The legacy characters are beautifully recreated with a passion and eye for detail that is generally unheard of. I've said this before, but, go watch the "Vega hitbox in slow mo" video and tell me that isn't the most beautiful application of ballet and dance you've ever seen in a game. He's a work of art all himself and that's 1 character. Dhalsim, Chun Li, etc. Many of them look and feel incredible.

- Stages. The quiet, moody stages in this game are the best since SFIII and The Last Blade 2.

- The music. FANG and Rashid are instant classic themes.

- Balance. Any character can win. Yes, some MUs are harder than others. But any character can win. Especially thanks to the CC system, you may be down, but never out. One of the most exciting aspects of SFV is when you have no health and the opponent is stacked. Usually, you'd think "well I'm toast". But because there is no death by chip (except super) and because of the CC system, things can feel very different. Most immature opponents will want to RTSD and close out the win, but this puts them at a huge disadvantage. Going in is risky, and so you have a great shot to take the round back. I'm sure everyone has examples of that happening to them, and SFV is a hell of a comeback game.

How many fighting games have you played, fam? SFV and ten minutes of SF4 is my guess based on this Combofiend-esque PR piece. Get out more, get some perspective and maybe you still feel it's the champ, maybe you don't.
 

sephi22

Member
You have no prove that if they made Kof14 a 2D game it will cost them more than 3d. It doesn't have to be the most beautiful 2d fighting game ever, but I think it would look better than what we got with kof14.

One last thing, look at Guilty Gear Xrd, I don't think they have much bigger budget than kof14, but they made it 3d and it looks beautiful.

Ignoring your netcode anecdotes (to be fair, so are mine), you're wrong about the 2D vs 3D aspect. 2D would have absolutely cost more than 3D.
You're shitting on 3D graphics of KOF14 for not being good as GG's 3D. Yet I'm somehow supposed to believe that you wouldn't hate on a substandard 2D game for not looking as good as KOF13 or Skullgirls or whatever. Get real. If you're hating on an underbudget 3D game, you'd hate on an underbudget 2D game. And a modest 2D game would look better than what we have now? To who? To you, maybe. Being 2D doesn't automatically make it look better. Good 2D requires shit ton of resources.

To me current KOF14 on PS Pro looks great. Neither the backgrounds or character models are super high res, but the lighting is clean and the artstyle meshes both beautifully together, making it look better than MvCI or SF4.

Here's a 2D game made on a cheap budget (Punch Planet): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEKai2o0cjo
You think people would've been happy with this instead of what we have now? "Lol PS2 game" shitposting would've been replaced with "LOL KOF14 flash/newgrounds game"

This all started with you asking why people give KOF14 a pass for looking like it does, and we told you that on a shoestring budget they overdelivered an amazing product. Meanwhile SFV got bankrolled by Sony, has a higher budget, but spent that all on high poly characters and textures while giving an anaemic product. But I guess they had to prioritize budget towards graphics to satisfy the shallow graphical boner fans I guess. If you still don't get why 14 gets a pass, I can't take you seriously anymore.

EDIT: Also Guilty Gear used tech they developed inhouse. Tech cost money and GG absolutely cost more per character than KOF. It also launched with 15 characters not counting DLC. KOF spent its modest budget on building 50 characters. In GGs case, any expenses on tech will pay out in the long run since they are making more games like Dragonball Fighterz. Like I said before, KOF14 could've looked like Xrd or SFV or KOF13 with its budget but it'd have like 8-10 characters then. They prioritized making a beefy roster and a great game than making a pretty one with the resources they had. Ideally you want both, but SNK didn't have that kind of budget, and besides NRS I don't think anyone does.

EDIT2: Also KOF14 being made with GG xrd's engine and budget, ending up a really pretty 3v3 game with only 15 characters would also be laughable and kill it. ASW's doing a 3v3 game in Xrd's engine and being moneyhatted by Bandai Namco and even then no one expects more than 20 characters in it. To think KOF could have 50 characters and look like that with the budget they have...is...wow.. I can't even process that line of thinking
 

Mokubba

Member
As someone who is purely a spectator because i'm terrible at fighting game. I love watching SFV and even playing it sometimes even though I'm bad.

I love the artstyle. It gets some flak but I think the characters for the most part look better in SFV than SFIV.

My only complaint is the same ones that the pros have in that a lot of the combos feel too streamlined so there's limited chance of expression. I think it's getting much better than it was before as the pros get better at the game, especially for certain characters but I would like to see it more outside of V-trigger. Seeing Tokido's Akuma and Nemo's Urien gives me hope.

I would love to see an extra CA for each character. I don't expect another V-Trigger as balancing that would take ages I think.

Another mechanic also might help the game but no idea what that could be.

The SFV base is great and I hope it reaches it's potential.
 

Fitts

Member
Fired up SFV yesterday after putting the game down before S2. It just feels so damn good to play. It feels like Street Fighter. My introduction to the series was vanilla SFII back in its day and my interest only started to wane with SFIV. That game feels so mechanical compared to the rest and I consider it an outlier. It's tough to describe, but I think putting too much emphasis on execution and character's play styles being too narrow contributed to it. That, and the focus attack system just plain sucked and seemed poorly thought out as it was crazy effective for some characters while being non-existent for others.

Point being, I love the way SFV plays (what matters most in a fighting game) and am elated Capcom didn't stay the course after riding IV for so long. I understand that the bar has been raised for expected content by NRS/etc and they failed to meet that expectation, but I'm just happy I'll have another SF game to go back to in a decade and still enjoy. Those with complaints about content or even the pricing model are absolutely justified if that's what their barometer for value is, but I don't know how anyone can just outright state that the game "sucks." It's not Rise of the Robots or some shit.
 

Mesoian

Member
Not correct, I live in Jordan and play against people in Europe regularly and the connection is great in SFV. In online gaming, ping is more important than connection speed (the lower your ping, the better), I have 10MBPS connection speed and have been playing the game daily without major issues. I only play against people with 4 - 5 bars and it's the right thing to do. Kof14 online play has problems, there is no roll backs, but slow motion matches and freezing in online matches. Last week, I played SFV with a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia with 3 bars connection and it was very playable.

You have no prove that if they made Kof14 a 2D game it will cost them more than 3d. It doesn't have to be the most beautiful 2d fighting game ever, but I think it would look better than what we got with kof14.

One last thing, look at Guilty Gear Xrd, I don't think they have much bigger budget than kof14, but they made it 3d and it looks beautiful.

Edit: A lot of 3d games doesn't use motion capture and are animated by hand.

You have a gross misunderstanding of how games are made.

I'd suggest you go watch that GDC video explaining how ArcSysWorks got guilty gear to look the way it does.

Here's a 2D game made on a cheap budget (Punch Planet): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEKai2o0cjo
You think people would've been happy with this instead of what we have now? "Lol PS2 game" shitposting would've been replaced with "LOL KOF14 flash/newgrounds game"

Man, this looks super neat, but its art direction is bankrupt AF.
 

tzare

Member
Not correct, I live in Jordan and play against people in Europe regularly and the connection is great in SFV. In online gaming, ping is more important than connection speed (the lower your ping, the better), I have 10MBPS connection speed and have been playing the game daily without major issues. I only play against people with 4 - 5 bars and it's the right thing to do. Kof14 online play has problems, there is no roll backs, but slow motion matches and freezing in online matches. Last week, I played SFV with a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia with 3 bars connection and it was very playable.

You have no prove that if they made Kof14 a 2D game it will cost them more than 3d. It doesn't have to be the most beautiful 2d fighting game ever, but I think it would look better than what we got with kof14.

One last thing, look at Guilty Gear Xrd, I don't think they have much bigger budget than kof14, but they made it 3d and it looks beautiful.

Edit: A lot of 3d games doesn't use motion capture and are animated by hand.
i have just started playing SFV coming from KOFIV. Just my two cents, online in both games plays okay most of the time, but when there's issues, i find the way KOF handles it much better, it slows down and you play slowmo but at least you know what is happening, on SFV is a teleporting mess.
And visuals, post patch, KOF XIV is not outstanding, but it is good, nice stages, and characters some may be a little bland but others are really nice, considering the art style is less exaggerated and more realistic than the one used on SFV. Only lacking in lighting really
SNK's approach seems better to me than the one taken by Capcom.

And obviously 2d is way more expensive than 3d today. And while i love 2d sprites, once you get used to 3d, it ain't that bad, in fact i played KOF XIII recently and compared to KOFIV it does not hold as well as i thought.
 
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