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IGN rumour: PS4 to have '2 GPUs' - one APU based + one discrete
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
gundamkyoukai
Member
The internet would explode if those specs were true or had any way of happening lol.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Man the sad thing is I actually like the design of this information slide. If only the guy who made this BS researched hardware this dude could have had a winner on his hands. I will say kudos for going through the trouble of designing it then printing it. I like how the left side has ugly ass typography and the other side is using Helvetica(?)
misread your post, nvm
misread your post, nvm
Graphics Horse
Member
make.believe
Insane Metal
Member
20GB of RAM?
LOOOOOOOL
Of course! It IS real!
LOOOOOOOL
Of course! It IS real!
Chittagong
Gold Member
I'm dying here - Cell, GPU called 'Quantum Leap', PS Iris controller, 20GB RAM, looooolBut hey guys it must be real because it has been printed on
daddy's
Edit: ahahahaha, this gift just keeps giving - 11.1 surround guys! And the GUI is the OS
Angelus Errare
Banned
The 20GB of ram part is just awesome
But hey guys it must be real because it has been printed oninkjet and has teh (R) symbols!daddy's
Edit: ahahahaha, this gift just keeps giving - 11.1 surround guys! And the GUI is the OS
11.1 is not as silly as 20gb ram. you could have 2 controllers with speakers
iamshadowlark
Banned
Iris is a 4k webcam.
Omni is a Cell Powered PlayStation tablet
Aether is the name for Sony's new 5D interface.
that's the new 1080P 240fps 3D Playstation Eye
Make.Believe
edit:
dammit! beat me to it
I mean any hidden patent type info. you never know some could be real ..haha
SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR DATA SYNCHRONIZATION FOR A COMPUTER
not sure if this has anything to do with the PS4 but this Sony patent is using a lot of APU's in what looks like a online sever reminds me of the severs using PS3's
not sure if this has anything to do with the PS4 but this Sony patent is using a lot of APU's in what looks like a online sever reminds me of the severs using PS3's
jeff_rigby
Banned
Great find, it ties everything together.
The patent is for a Java Model (Virtual machine) - Cell and APU hardware implementation allowing the "Cell Vision" of sharing processor, memory and data over broadband network (Internet and wireless) with a common ISA instruction set. This is the AMD HSA IL (JIT Virtual machine) which "Scales from Handheld to Supercomputer".
The date in the patent is Dec 8, 2011, it starts with Cell in PDAs (1 cell personal handheld devices like cell phones and Tablets), TVs 4 cell...you get the point, as many cell processors (CPU + SPU) as needed by the device and goes on to use Cell and APU as equivalent building blocks Cell=APU=(CPU + GPGPU)=(CPU + SPU).
The Dec 8, 2011 date is important! The first picture with Cell in everything is the original vision with Cell still planned for advanced CE devices displaying 4K (TV and high end 4K blu-ray). Cell is in the Toshiba 4K TV and it does have features not possible without Cell.
Toshiba PDF mentioning the reason for the Cell (power wall, Frequency wall) and applies to Heterogeneous Cell as well as Fusion APU. Also 1 SPU = 16 Intel core Duo X86 processors for single precision FLOPs in 2008.
SPURS engine (4SPUs) designed to be included in platforms with other processors like X86 (Face Recognition, Media codec, Gesture recognition and more). This is now or will soon be provided by GPGPUs in platforms with GPUs. Platforms that need this power but don't need GPUs will probably use Cell (4K TV, 4K Blu-Ray). PDF also mentions clusters of cell over network to share processing, POSIX etc. This is a 2008 "Cell Vision" and the 2011 Sony patent is a later "cell vision" also including a Virtual engine like PS Suite's Mono.
Sony created a group to develop and promote DLNA (2000) to share media over the home network. This is being expanded to RVU which is Remote Viewing and control of DVR boxes. DLNA includes discovery and Plug and Play which was developed by the DLNA group. A next generation game console following this vision will need DLNA, RVU and multiple low power standby modes always listening to the Network port; the AMD Fusion SOC chipset provides these as well as the 2011 "Cell vision".
That AMD is including this in all AMD Full HSA Fusion APUs (2013 and later) means the PS4 and future PCs (at least AMD) will be able to share application code and data transparently. I don't know how far this will be taken......it's possible to have the same applications run on PS4 and AMD PCs because of the HSA IL virtual machine. The OS (Microsoft Windows 8? or a simplified Linux with PS3 Linux kernel released at the same time as the PS4 Linux supporting the HSA IL virtual machine?) would have to support this and this is possibly another reason for the domain name registration microsoft-sony.com and sony-microsoft.com. I suspect this will be fleshed out more at the June AMD developers conference and might be hinted by Sony at E3. Will this if properly explained to the consumer impact buying a PS4 over a WiiU. Is the next Xbox supporting this?
Will PS Suite be tied into this at some point in the future (announced one month after the above patent)? OpenCL and HSA IL? The PS3 application side is evolving toward a Gnome Mobile Webkit desktop at least as far as functionality and could support a HSA IL virtual machine.
Read posts here especially 4th down.
This starts with AMD 2013 HSA Fusion APUs and the PS4 SOC should be a 2014 design. Speculation but fits Sony & Toshiba goals for Cell and explains Sony going with a AMD fusion APU as the vision is identical and AMD has done the work. Both AMD and Sony need this to succeed. My opinion is Sony is going to concentrate on software and AMD on hardware including hand-helds.....partnership that hasn't been announced yet? AMD/Global foundries is part of the low power ultrawide memory I/O standards group =>handheld memory. <grin> best choice in a AMD HSA Fusion SOC for handhelds.http://www.anandtech.com/show/5847/answered-by-the-experts-heterogeneous-and-gpu-compute-with-amds-manju-hegde/3 said:
It certainly would be awesome.. (most likely not going to happen, but awesome.)
Perhaps something like 2GB of memory stacked on both CPU & GPU with 512-1024 bit interface and 16GB of slower standard memory on motherboard..
Quick, someone call Kotaku.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Just wondering....
Is the "Aether GUI" a real Sony initiative.... and if so does anyone have any pics of it on other devices?
Is the "Aether GUI" a real Sony initiative.... and if so does anyone have any pics of it on other devices?
Brad Grenz
Member
Because whether or not they want to show it in the next couple weeks they are still hundreds of people working on designing, building and creating games for the next generation right now. It's not easy to keep a secret this big.
Because there's lot of people who like to troll people like us?
There had been rumours of the Wii 2/Wii HD for years before it actually happened. Rumours doesn't mean anything.
jump_button
Banned
Epic was begging for more RAM so fake as hell and I can see ps4 coming out Q2 2014, Q4 next year we have to have more then a foot note at the end of E3 and we getting no hint that PS4 will be at E3
maybe close door but not open
maybe close door but not open
Ram apart, how realistic are the other specs?
Brad Grenz
Member
Just as ludicrous. In fact, 20GBs of RAM is actually way more feasible than a dual 680 GPU or a 128 SPE incarnation of Cell.
RAM would be the most realistic one of them all. On the other hand, those Cell specs won't be equaled in power in the next 10 years... (obviously a hyperbole, but you get the point)
@above FUUU...
jeff_rigby
Banned
True, it's from 2008 but the Toshiba 2008 PDF is mostly valid as Toshiba is using a 4SPU spurs engine in their 4K TVs for media acceleration, head tracking, gesture recognition etc. This was why Toshiba invested with Sony in the Cell.
I expect Sony is doing the same as they mentioned that the (Toshiba designed) Video upconverting software in the PS3 (Using Cell to upconvert SD to HD) is also in the 4K upconverting blu-ray player announced at CES 2012. Nothing else mentioned for it but I expect a HD camera is coming (? same one as in the Sony depth sensing patent?) and Skype, gesture recognition and more.
phosphor112
Banned
Very nice find, also very nice post from Jeff.
EDIT: I think such a design would be one of the coolest shifts I've ever seen in technology. I hope it's used.
Would be cool if a dev showed up and said we're headed in the right direction at least.
Edit: I was thinking today, about vita + ps3 integration. Going forward, it'd be ps4 + vita integration. So devs who want games on multiple platforms, need t get it working, on, ps3, ps4' and vita. How is that really gonna work easily?
It ain't.
Edit: I was thinking today, about vita + ps3 integration. Going forward, it'd be ps4 + vita integration. So devs who want games on multiple platforms, need t get it working, on, ps3, ps4' and vita. How is that really gonna work easily?
It ain't.
mescalineeyes
Banned
You can't be serious?
Not the silly specs sheet. Everything else. E.g. Amd apu, etc.
Projectjustice
Banned
It would be great if Sony launched this holiday season. Im sick of these dated consoles we have.
Not the main course, but a side dish that may be relevant to our next gen feast:
SSD price war in full swing
Source: Might as well give a good article some hits
http://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/39853-ssd-price-war-full-swing/
SSD price war in full swing
Source: Might as well give a good article some hits
http://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/39853-ssd-price-war-full-swing/
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
No the main course, but a side dish that may be relevant to our next gen feast:
SSD price war in full swing
Source: Might as well give a good article some hits
http://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/39853-ssd-price-war-full-swing/
About damn time! Daddy needs a SSD!
Proelite
Member
Technically dual 680 is the most feasible, because the other two doesn't exist (the super cell, and GDDR6), not even on paper.
Metalmurphy
Member
Not the main course, but a side dish that may be relevant to our next gen feast:
SSD price war in full swing
Source: Might as well give a good article some hits
http://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/39853-ssd-price-war-full-swing/
Ahhh damn it. I bought a 64GB for that just 2 months ago or so -.-
jeff_rigby
Banned
Rumors have Sony changing to a lighter weight X86 CPU (Jaguar) and removing 2 of the 4 CPUs in developer platforms. With what are they replacing the CPU performance lost? Would the power and heat saved = 2 1PPU4SPUs.
Slide with latest information, reading carefully:
1) Everything is 28nm from 2013 on
2) 1 generation SOC is Temash and Kabini but Kaveri is not SOC but has nearly Full HSA.
Speculation: 2nd generation SOC coming and that will be the PS4 SOC. Kaveri features with Jaguar cores and full HSA GPU in the SOC. Second GPU Full HSA connected to SOC with a faster GDDR5 differential buss and conventional 64 bit wide or more likely with cheaper slower GDDR5 RAM with 256 bit buss. 2nd order speculation: within 2 years memory and second GPU @20nm migrates into SOC, this makes 256bit buss more likely. Since AMD will be scaling their building blocks, Sony will not have to pay for die reduction redesign costs; just the SOC substrate redesign costs. PS4 subsidy needed for first 2 years.
Wild speculation could have a couple of 1PPU4SPU modules (Sony Dec 2010 patent) in the SOC. Patent mentions the PPU is redesigned to support Fan out to 4 SPUs and supports AVX (page 7 in patent). Little is known about Jaguar but it's not supposed to have a FPU as it relies on the GPU. GPUs can support math but have a higher latency than a PPU or SPU. This is a hole in AMD Jaguar feature set that could be filled by a PPU-SPU combination. This is where Intel shines with AVX and AVX2 tightly integrated into X86 instruction sets. They use parallel processing code on something like SPUs but it's transparent and easier to use for developers.
Sony will, like Toshiba does, use SPUs in their 4K TVs and Blu-ray player (debatable). GPUs are not needed in TVs unless Sony plans to support games on all their CE equipment then low power AMD APUs make sense. I can only guess at this as there are too many variables but I'm certain the Dec 2010 patent was describing Cell 1PPU4SPU building blocks that would be used in the PS4 (4 of them), PS3 (2 of them) and in TVs and blu-ray players (1 of them). Economy of scale driving down price. (Sony plans may have changed since Dec 2010)
Slide with latest information, reading carefully:
1) Everything is 28nm from 2013 on
2) 1 generation SOC is Temash and Kabini but Kaveri is not SOC but has nearly Full HSA.
Speculation: 2nd generation SOC coming and that will be the PS4 SOC. Kaveri features with Jaguar cores and full HSA GPU in the SOC. Second GPU Full HSA connected to SOC with a faster GDDR5 differential buss and conventional 64 bit wide or more likely with cheaper slower GDDR5 RAM with 256 bit buss. 2nd order speculation: within 2 years memory and second GPU @20nm migrates into SOC, this makes 256bit buss more likely. Since AMD will be scaling their building blocks, Sony will not have to pay for die reduction redesign costs; just the SOC substrate redesign costs. PS4 subsidy needed for first 2 years.
Wild speculation could have a couple of 1PPU4SPU modules (Sony Dec 2010 patent) in the SOC. Patent mentions the PPU is redesigned to support Fan out to 4 SPUs and supports AVX (page 7 in patent). Little is known about Jaguar but it's not supposed to have a FPU as it relies on the GPU. GPUs can support math but have a higher latency than a PPU or SPU. This is a hole in AMD Jaguar feature set that could be filled by a PPU-SPU combination. This is where Intel shines with AVX and AVX2 tightly integrated into X86 instruction sets. They use parallel processing code on something like SPUs but it's transparent and easier to use for developers.
The Sony Dec 2010 patent and the later August 2011 patent support each other and are the Sony 2011 Cell vision and nearly identical to the AMD APU HSAIL HSA Fabric computing memory model. The August 2011 patent even mentions both Cell and APU. Both patents are describing game console and at the same time technology that is 10 years out.
Sony will, like Toshiba does, use SPUs in their 4K TVs and Blu-ray player (debatable). GPUs are not needed in TVs unless Sony plans to support games on all their CE equipment then low power AMD APUs make sense. I can only guess at this as there are too many variables but I'm certain the Dec 2010 patent was describing Cell 1PPU4SPU building blocks that would be used in the PS4 (4 of them), PS3 (2 of them) and in TVs and blu-ray players (1 of them). Economy of scale driving down price. (Sony plans may have changed since Dec 2010)
I wonder if somebody scribbles down rough budgets on yellow notepads, and how much money goes where.
100 space bucks on apu
100 space bucks on discrete gpu
100 space bucks on everything else.
299 space bucks. sony takes 1 space buck hit per console.
First to ten million wins!
It'd be the most price concious console ever!
no ssd. no v. powerful cpu/apu/gpu. Cheap ram. And bob's your uncle!
100 space bucks on apu
100 space bucks on discrete gpu
100 space bucks on everything else.
299 space bucks. sony takes 1 space buck hit per console.
First to ten million wins!
It'd be the most price concious console ever!
no ssd. no v. powerful cpu/apu/gpu. Cheap ram. And bob's your uncle!