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INDIE GAME : The Movie Thread: Out 12 June on DD | Steam | iTunes
- Thread starter MRORANGE
- Start date
Jasper Avenue
Member
I enjoyed the movie for what it was.
The Team Meat parts were definitely the best. Loved seeing how Edmund and Tommy handled the release of their game so differently.
The parts with Phil Fish were also enjoyable. I've talked shit about Fish on several occasions but you can tell he's someone who's passionate about his craft and that's something I can respect.
I'll probably never watch it again but it was a pretty good watch.
The Team Meat parts were definitely the best. Loved seeing how Edmund and Tommy handled the release of their game so differently.
The parts with Phil Fish were also enjoyable. I've talked shit about Fish on several occasions but you can tell he's someone who's passionate about his craft and that's something I can respect.
I'll probably never watch it again but it was a pretty good watch.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
phil fish what are you doing that's not how you make a phone call
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Horribly overrated. I didn't enjoy it at all and the Dinofarm Games guy's review is spot on. Just because there's no other documentary like this (I think) and because people at Sundance have been talking/have watched it, doesn't make it good.
No fun in watching a documentary about indie game devs whining and crying about their situation and being all pretentious and shit. Someone from team Meat said it was a conscious decision to go indie, that working at EA or Epic would be hell. Then quit crying and whining about being an indie game developer.
No fun in watching a documentary about indie game devs whining and crying about their situation and being all pretentious and shit. Someone from team Meat said it was a conscious decision to go indie, that working at EA or Epic would be hell. Then quit crying and whining about being an indie game developer.
As someone who has seen the movie, I think that you are spot-on.
Truespeed
Member
Anyone know the back story on this? Where it's from and how it was captured?
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
No. It was not explained in the movie which leads me to think that it was just put in the movie for the sake of being hip or artsy. I mean come on, the picture doesn't really make any sense.
god forbid they use a striking image for purely visual reasons. Let's use "hip" and "artsy" since they clearly mean something bad and lacking in content.
the overuse (and wrongly at that) of the word "pretentious" is seriously destroying everything. It's like a shelter to hide for those who dont have clear opinions about what they criticize.
"oh it's so pretentious" = no need to say anything else apparently
no one's really sure but I bet a hundred space bucks it ends up there eventually
could be a year I guess
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Pretentiousness is making something more important than it actually is. It is incredible how bloated the sense of self importance is given to the indie devs by the way the movie is shot or because of the questions asked. They're elevating the trials and tribulations of indie devs when other devs have it tough as well. Besides, most indie devs chose to be indie devs themselves so why are they whining?
Lastly, when they use an image as striking but also as baffling as a controller hanging from a power line, most viewers are going to demand an explanation.
Was at a Q and A screening with the directors and they mentioned that in the early stages of the film, they were exiting somewhere (I think a cafe for a meeting/planning session) in Canada and saw the controller hanging on a telephone wire outside.
They grabbed their cameras because they thought it was a sign. Apparently, it was very very early on in the film's development.
Yeah, that's pretty much what the word "pretentious" created.
You basically cant film something just for the sake of pace, mood, or purely cause its pretty. Everything needs to have a meaning. In the sense that if you film something like that, you're clearly trying to imply SOMETHING, and you dont explain that something cause you dont know what it is but you totes wanna give the impression of you being deep and oh so hip.
It's the most retarded argument ever. If you go back to the history of films there would be a bunch of what are now considered "classics" that would fall under this type of """criticism"""
they're putting a controller hanging from a wire. It could mean that they're trying to show how these developers are basically grasping trying to hang on to their game while putting themselves tangling with the possibility to fall into a very harmful situation, or it could mean JACKSHIT and they just thought "hey this controller looks cool, and having a prolonged shot of it helps with the vibe and rythm we're trying to achieve."
what makes you so sure that "they're making it something more important than it actually is", I'll tell you what: your made up mind against a supposed "movement" only created by those who decided to hate it. There's nothing to make you think they meant anything more than what they presented. And if there is: it's certainly there, since you seem to have percieved it.
edit:
nevermind, after an edited statement as ridiculous as that I regret trying to discuss this with you with some sense
Truespeed
Member
Since they're from Winnipeg I bet that's where it's from. Someone needs to find the location of that controller and procure it before the copycats start hurling controllers at power lines.
Truespeed
Member
Indie game indeed - with exclusivity deal and all. Not a good way to endear yourself to your PC supporters. It sucks because I don't really think the PC version would have cannibalized a lot of the Xbox live sales.
BTW, nice to see you back here. You were missed on the Steam thread.
The comments about the use of establishing shots is just nonsense to me. It served a real purpose, it shows us the quiet setting of the real lives of these people that contrasts with the high-stakes and high-drama development scene that exists almost entirely intangibly on the Internet. This, along with the poster, provides something visually interesting in a film that would otherwise be just a bunch of people sitting at computers and talking. Call it pretentious if you want, I think that it is simply good film-making.
I would suggest seeing the film before reading the following:
For me the film succeeded because it focused on the people instead of simply exploring the design process of the games. Clearly some people in here wanted that instead, but to me that sounds completely dry. The most interesting part was the emotional investment that the creators had in their games. Jonathan Blow viewing Braid as almost a failure because it didn't connect himself with his audience in the way that he intended. Tommy Refenes being entirely ambivalent at the impressive sales numbers of Super Meat Boy, only to break down when he watches youtube videos of people playing and loving his game. These were great moments that don't require a knowledge of video-game culture in order to understand, which to me makes it a huge success.
I would suggest seeing the film before reading the following:
For me the film succeeded because it focused on the people instead of simply exploring the design process of the games. Clearly some people in here wanted that instead, but to me that sounds completely dry. The most interesting part was the emotional investment that the creators had in their games. Jonathan Blow viewing Braid as almost a failure because it didn't connect himself with his audience in the way that he intended. Tommy Refenes being entirely ambivalent at the impressive sales numbers of Super Meat Boy, only to break down when he watches youtube videos of people playing and loving his game. These were great moments that don't require a knowledge of video-game culture in order to understand, which to me makes it a huge success.
I think the biggest achievement of the film regarding it's focus on the people behind the games rather than the creative process is the fact that this makes a great piece to show to those who know very little about videogames but are open to learn more about them.
My dad knows i've worked in some games and that im a huge enthusiast of the medium but barely knows anything about it other than clumsily trying to play something with me and failing. He's eager to watch this film in order to comprehend my interests and what drives me towards them a bit more. Really thankful for this film coming out.
My dad knows i've worked in some games and that im a huge enthusiast of the medium but barely knows anything about it other than clumsily trying to play something with me and failing. He's eager to watch this film in order to comprehend my interests and what drives me towards them a bit more. Really thankful for this film coming out.
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
Probably a callback to Nirvana's cover with the baby diving for money.
Haha I'm so sorry
TheExplodingHead
Banned
I completely agree. Thought it was a great documentary, one of my recent fav's actually.
I'd be embarrassed to show someone this film and go 'this is me'
I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that the creation of meaningful work has to be self destructive, which seemed to be the biggest focus of the film.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Exactly. There was a whole lot of unnecessary drama shown in the documentary. I mean yeah, I understand that they're putting their heart and soul, blood sweat and tears into making a game but does it have to come out in a way that is so dramatic/depressing and pretentious?
SteveWinwood
Member
I agree with this. Not to mention nearly everyone featured was clearly bordering on some personality and/or social issues.
I loved the movie, but I don't think it does anything but highlight their personal struggles (nothing wrong with that but...) it does nothing for video games or video game creation as a whole, which I would have probably thought was the point.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Watching this now.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
The documentary showed/tackled very few things about actual game development which to me is disappointing but I don't see any problems focusing on the developer as a person, it's just the way the developers acted/were shown that made me cringe. I mean come on, "if this game doesn't get finished or come out, I'll KILL MYSELF. That's my motivation for finishing it, so that I won't have to kill myself" or "I desperately want to communicate with people but I don't want to deal with the messy interaction thing because I probably won't like them"
I mean really?
I mean really?
Pseudo_Sam
Survives without air, food, or water
Loved it. Even from the little experience I've had developing games, I can understand how maddening it can be. These guys are pouring 100% of their time into a single project. If it fails, so do they. Understandable they'd be a little dramatic.
And quit fucking complaining about pretentiousness, who the fuck cares. The movie was well-made, well-shot, well-edited, and did a good job of explaining the position these guys were in. God forbid they take some artistic liberties instead of shooting two hours of Phil Fish's absurd muttonchops.
And quit fucking complaining about pretentiousness, who the fuck cares. The movie was well-made, well-shot, well-edited, and did a good job of explaining the position these guys were in. God forbid they take some artistic liberties instead of shooting two hours of Phil Fish's absurd muttonchops.
MuddyDonut
Member
Edmund is a great person and Phil Fish is still as unlikable as ever. Having said that, I do want more video game docs and I enjoyed this much more than I expected to.
Pseudo_Sam
Survives without air, food, or water
Uh, couldn't disagree more. It validates these guys as "artists". Like it or not, the public perception is that great art can only be created in conjunction with great personal suffering, mental breakdowns, high emotions, ect. This movie is literally two hours of over-dramatic, clearly stressed but clearly passionate dudes pouring their lives into their craft, having meltdowns, crying, reflecting on childhood, blah blah. And it was really well made to boot. Heck, just hop on over to the rotten tomatoes page and you'll see some big name reviewers waxing on the artistic process and passion involved and whatnot. It's validating in that it shows that game developers can be real, actual artists, and not just faceless corporate drones.
SteveWinwood
Member
I never said anything about any of that.
They are artists. And it is about them. It is NOT however about video games. It is about them. That's all I said. I don't know where you're getting anything else from what I said. It could be about three filmmakers and you wouldn't notice anything different.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Okay, I have to wait for my other computer to get back from the shop before I continue. This just got too choppy.
I just got to the part with Super Meat Boy. It's a pity they lived right next to me for six years and I never knew. Hopefully, the rest of the movie is this streamlined. The first nine minutes were basically the trailer, and horribly structured.
I just got to the part with Super Meat Boy. It's a pity they lived right next to me for six years and I never knew. Hopefully, the rest of the movie is this streamlined. The first nine minutes were basically the trailer, and horribly structured.
I think that outside the sphere of enthusiasts like ourselves, the image of a game designer in people's minds is quite different from what you see in the four people shown in this film. This humanizes a subject that's only been stereotyped and belittled in pop culture (see Big Bang Theory).
The movie is about these guy's journeys, im not saying i'd try to show the movie as "HEY THIS IS ME" or anything, im saying it shows how much people care and how much effort they put into this.
Wether edmund is a sociopath and Phil Fish is a manchild are their issues, and are presented as so because the movie's about them. The payoff at the end does more than enough to show that it was all worth it. Everyone's happy as fuck and rich as fuck.
I do like how Hydrogen Bluebird ignored my post back there and continued to use the word pretentious without any real complaint about what supposedly made the movie "pretentious", but eh.
I think the post is pretty long and clear on what I think about dismissing this movie as "DURR PRETENTIOUS, HIPSTER, THOSE ARE MY WORDS OF CRITICISM", so im done with that.
Wether edmund is a sociopath and Phil Fish is a manchild are their issues, and are presented as so because the movie's about them. The payoff at the end does more than enough to show that it was all worth it. Everyone's happy as fuck and rich as fuck.
I do like how Hydrogen Bluebird ignored my post back there and continued to use the word pretentious without any real complaint about what supposedly made the movie "pretentious", but eh.
I think the post is pretty long and clear on what I think about dismissing this movie as "DURR PRETENTIOUS, HIPSTER, THOSE ARE MY WORDS OF CRITICISM", so im done with that.
Apophenia Overload
Member
keep it up and you'll be a member in no time buddy
Apophenia Overload
Member
I thought Braid was just about a little guy who just walks around, jumps around, and shit, but then Jonathan Blow implied that the game was about the creation of the atomic bomb and that I should feel bad for not getting it.
Apophenia Overload
Member
It is possible, in this universe of infinite possibilities, to simultaneously enjoy indie games, and to think that some indie devs, especially some of the devs featured in this film, to be ridiculous people, and to think that this film is ridiculous. Additionally, it is also quite possible to make a film about other indie developers that don't make them seem like socially maladjusted drama queens.
This film deserves its place for 'creating awareness' of indie developers. But at the same time, it's sort of like lauding Black Swan for its dramatic portrayal of the cutthroat, high-stakes world of ballet recitals. Or Showgirls for publicizing the unseen battleground of burlesque.
This film deserves its place for 'creating awareness' of indie developers. But at the same time, it's sort of like lauding Black Swan for its dramatic portrayal of the cutthroat, high-stakes world of ballet recitals. Or Showgirls for publicizing the unseen battleground of burlesque.
yet no one's saying its some kind of accurate representation of what every indie game developer goes through.. just these 3 in this specific ocation
Im also not trying to change the mind of someone who didnt like the film, im just saying that criticizing anything by just saying it's "hipster" and "pretentious" is really meaningless to me
Im also not trying to change the mind of someone who didnt like the film, im just saying that criticizing anything by just saying it's "hipster" and "pretentious" is really meaningless to me
Apophenia Overload
Member
I'm not really trying to convince people that the movie is bad, because it isn't really, it's sort of mediocre but not terrible. I personally think its subject matter is causing it to be overrated, but I understand if people feel otherwise. I'm just explaining why it's so easily mockable.
Lord British
Member
Great post.
I've never had a problem with "pretentiousness". Sometimes I'll recognise it, but usually what it demonstrates is ambition and that can never really be faulted.
Edit: Seriously, what is this "hipster" shit? What does it actually mean?
It's mockable because people have a hard time dealing with anyone discussing videogames in any serious sense or with any thorough use of thought. As long as you talk about videogames with words such as "dude" and "awesome", then you'll be okay. If you think harder about games, then you start to upset people that have some deep insecurities. This is why people respond more favorably to how Ed is depicted in the movie than they do to a guy like Blow. Ed uses more "appropriate" terminology.
It's sort of like how a politician will drop into a "common folk" speech and make the hearts of couch taters all-a-flutter.
The fact that they are ridiculous people is what makes it interesting! You don't make a documentary about regular people, you make it about the mentally unstable man who wanted to live with grizzly bears, or the crazy French guy who walked across the twin towers on a tightrope.
Agreed. The Avergage Joe isnt an interesting person to watch. Fish and Edmund are, because their minds are facinatingly different from ours. Plus, I really feel the movie shows the torments of creativity, the maddening effects it may have on you. Fez clearly shows a deep passion for Video Games and is a testament to Fish' OCD. Its also why I feel his comments on suicide are genuine. I really think that if he had failed to finish Fez, he would have hurt himself. Putting your soul into something for five years and failing.. thats devastating, especially if you're not a fully stable and clearly impulsive person to begin with. Their torments is what makes IGTM facinating to see and gives it a much more broader appeal than going intop boring game design specifics (I like them mind you, but its not for everyone, nor do I believe depicting that part of development will really distinguish the Indie scene from the larger studios)
Secondly: The internets tendency to shout hipster and pretentious at anything even remotely out of the ordinary needs to die of already. Everyone doing that is acting like the type of person they perceive as annoying: claiming some moral or intellectual high ground over others. The reddits of this world are almost more annoying than actual hipsters (for as far as they even exist). Give fair critique not this sad excuse for an argument.
The saddest part for me was that they are all outcasts, the only friend they have and that they care for is their game.
I mean, they didn't even have a release party for SMB. If that was my game I would be up in the club getting buzzed with my friends celebrating like every other normal person but they just went to bed instead lol
I mean, they didn't even have a release party for SMB. If that was my game I would be up in the club getting buzzed with my friends celebrating like every other normal person but they just went to bed instead lol
Honestly, I could see myself doing the same thing in their position. Early night then wake up incase things fuck up. Which they did. Quiet day with my partner would sound like the perfect come-down after a year of solid development.
Go for the amazing party once the first-week numbers are in.
Dog Problems
Banned
This is a really good point and something I've noticed that happens all over the place. Out of the three developers focused on Blow is definitely the most interesting to me. I don't fully understand every thing he talks about but it actually makes me stop and think to try and understand better. Not so much because of the terminology he uses, but because he helps me look at gaming in a way I'm not use to.
really liked this. the core stuff about the meat boy guys and fish's journeys was a good story to tell and the people involved justified the focus on the idea of indie games being personal games and reflections of those who made them. production was nice too despite the silly on the nose shots of stuff like a guy floating in swimming pool as you talk about him being overwhelmed by things out of control etc; absolutely adored the guthrie soundtrack.
the scenes where meat boy was released and them seeing the reactions were just so wonderful and made me think that i should be creating something in my life.
my main reservations are with the jon blow stuff which felt a little like a normal interview added in for little benefit despite how articulate that guy is and a feeling that if you're going to call your film indie game: the movie it should examine more than the people behind three of the most well known and popular indie games - even long before release.
still cool film, glad i paid for it, hopefully we see more stuff like this about games going forwards.
the scenes where meat boy was released and them seeing the reactions were just so wonderful and made me think that i should be creating something in my life.
my main reservations are with the jon blow stuff which felt a little like a normal interview added in for little benefit despite how articulate that guy is and a feeling that if you're going to call your film indie game: the movie it should examine more than the people behind three of the most well known and popular indie games - even long before release.
still cool film, glad i paid for it, hopefully we see more stuff like this about games going forwards.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
well i read about how they just happened to see it and thought it looked cool. i also like how they used it on the boxart and hung it over spikes which seemed to symbolize how indie game devs have to hang on by a thread.
how something like this gravely offends anyone ill never understand.
im also surprised that some people thought that phil fish came off as a pompous ass. i thought he was totally likable albiet aggravated at times.