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INDIE GAME : The Movie Thread: Out 12 June on DD | Steam | iTunes

Just watched it. I feel like the movie is a little overrated now.

Edit:


Looks like I'll be the first of the dissenters. I didn't really like the movie. Perhaps it's because I was expecting something completely different than then a depressive movie about making Xbox live arcade games or I just didn't care about the introspective nature of the movie.

The scenes with Phil Fish and his unfiltered and non melodramatic scenes sprinkled with fits of rage, threats and obscenity were pretty entertaining - albeit he is French Canadian so that's to be expected. I also liked the Jonathon Blow scene in which he went into detail about the making of Braid and how it evolved from the prototype. The comparison of the prototype and the completed game was fascinating to me especially when you consider he had the core of the game working within days. But, other than that I fell asleep once and wondered when the movie would be over. Perhaps that's my biggest complaint is that I was expecting a movie that focused more on the development process and less on the personal stories.

I really agree with the bolded parts. It was quite different from what I was expecting.
 
I don't know who Keith Burgun is, or what Dinofarm Games does, but I do know that they've probably won me a sale with Keith's excellent review of this film.

And here it is, for those who haven't read it yet:

On “Indie Game: The Movie”

It’s clear that Indie Game: The Movie is not a movie that was made for me. It was made not for developers, but instead for people who really have no idea what an “indie developer” is. In other words, most people. That’s fine – I have no problem with one of the purposes of this film being a public declaration of the existence of the indie developer.

It may be a bit of a problem, though, that that’s just about the only clear purpose of this film.

To those viewers that the movie was made for, I’m speaking to you, now. There are some things that you need to know. Mainly, the following two things:

1. Not all “videogames” are actually puzzle platformers, and

2. Not all indie game developers are spoiled, depressed and pretentious

Puzzle Platformers

You may be sad to learn that this bold new wave of indie developers are still basically just tweaking the same game that you remember playing back in the 1990s or even earlier. All of the games shown in the movie are just clones of older games, with a new theme, and some gameplay gimmick. Also, if you go and look around on the internet, you may find that it’s really true! Wow, there really are nothing but puzzle platformers everywhere! The number of puzzle platformers getting made every year is staggering.

However, there are some digital game developers out there who are doing new, interesting things. Chris Hecker’s Spy Party, Rodain Joubert’s Desktop Dungeons, Tarn Adams’ Dwarf Fortress, just to name a few. It would have been great to see a little of that in the film. Now, I do think that the growth of digital gaming is extremely stunted (for a few reasons that I’ve gone on about many times over), but other than a fleeting shot of Minecraft, the viewer would have absolutely no idea that digital gaming has advanced at all.

Actually, for years I’ve wanted to write an article addressing the “puzzle platformer” plague, but I never did, partially because I thought “okay, well, it’s so bad now, it’s probably going to get better.” But it hasn’t gotten better. Right now eight out of ten of the top posts on reddit’s IndieGaming subreddit are about (directly or indirectly), puzzle platformers. People are excited about a new Abe’s Odyssey? Really?

Now, I might be a bit biased here, because I don’t like puzzles. But seriously, even people who do like puzzles have got to be getting tired of this by now.

Most Developers Are Normal People

Of course, it’s a movie, and so I do take the presentation of these “characters” with a grain of salt. In fact, I’ll preface everything by saying that it could be that the people in this film were presented in a completely unfair way that made the appear to be nothing at all like who they really are. I am only addressing the characters that I was presented with.

Going into it, I was concerned, because I already knew about Jonathan Blow and his patented brand of non-communication. I was expecting him to start every sentence with “so,” end every sentence with “, right?”, and squint his way through various “art-game” keywords such as “personal”, and “interesting”. I expected him to complain that while people liked his game, they didn’t like it for the right reasons, and that was those people’s fault, not his.

My expectations about him were all met. However, what I didn’t expect was to find Blow to be one of the more likeable characters in the movie.

Before I go on, I have to point out that I’m not talking about Edmund McMillen. He seemed like a pretty down to earth guy, and at no point did I want to strangle him. Could he be a little more pleased with incredible success? Maybe. I think the director really wanted to paint this picture of him that he’s this, like, “twisted, dark individual”, but other than him maybe being a little depressed I think he seemed like a normal guy who just wanted to make some nice little games for the people.

I am, however, talking about Phil Fish. In all seriousness, I did not know that the caricature of that incredibly pretentious, spoiled brat “hipster” archetype actually existed, until I saw this film. To me it’s a bit like meeting a “valley girl” who’s blowing bubblegum bubbles and talking on her cellphone 24/7, or a 19th century gold prospector, or something.

phil-fish-fez-64f0c.jpg

Pictured: Phil Fish's actual face (I swear to God this is not photoshopped!)


I’m a totally non-violent person and I mean this purely in a figurative sense, but, this kid seriously needs a good elbow drop. Throughout the film, he’s clearly in an extremely awesome situation. He was just able to work on his game for four years straight. I could be wrong, but I did not get the impression that he was holding down a full-time job during that time, or anything. From his clothing and his house and computer and the fact that he was able to travel to PAX (I’ve never been able to afford to go to any game conventions, except for last year’s PRACTICE: Game Design in Detail, and I could only do that because it’s a $20 train ride away and I was able to get a press pass), I’d say that he seems to be doing rather well despite spending so much time on his game.

But even though he is basically on top of the world, we get to endure his temper tantrums in some fancy-ass expensive five star hotel lobby while he waits for his ex-partner, who for some mysterious reason, left the team. The whole thing was just extremely cringe-inducing to watch, and the worst thing was that the film, with its “hip indie art movie” soundtrack, seemed to be presenting this person’s behavior as, like, cool? I’ll get more into that later.

Blake (our lead artist and my housemate) and I watched the film together, and we had a blast imagining what Phil Fish’s ex-partner was like. We assumed that he was the pro-wrestler, the “Macho Man” Randy Savage, and that in a classic “bully” style, he just wanted to repeatedly give Phil Fish elbow drops. Hearing Blake’s excellent Macho Man impression saying stuff like “HEY LITTLE BUDDY, LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE’S OVERDUE FOR AN ELBOW DROP!” and imagining that that was this kid’s arch nemesis was by far the most awesome thing about this movie (actually, in general, super self-serious spoiled hipster jerks are countered amazingly well by classic bully archetypes. Possibly because the bully is so the opposite of the hipster, but also possibly because we just want to see hipsters getting pantsed and pushed into pools).


IT'S TIME FOR MACHO MAN TO GIVE YOU A NOOGIE

The one saving grace is that Phil Fish is just a kid – if I’m not mistaken, he’s 20 years old, and this kind of douche-baggery is actually pretty common at that age. I hope, for his sake, that his name is a pseudonym. When he’s 30 or 40, he’s going to be extremely embarrassed by his behavior in this film. In fact, it made me extremely relieved that there isn’t any famous public record of my behavior when I was 20. I don’t think I was as bad as him, but… maybe that thought is a luxury of not having my 20-year-old self immortalized, I don’t know.

Overall, the character I felt most sympathetic to in the entire film was, of all people, Soulja Boy. You see, there was this quick Youtube clip of him playing Braid, and saying stuff like “you’re this little guy and you just walk around, jump around, and shit”. This prompted Blake to later review the film on Facebook as follows:

Just watched Indie Game: The movie with Keith Burgun. It’s a harrowing tale wherein the underdog protagonist, Solja Boy, has nothing but his homespun wisdom and optimism to protect him from the unrelenting assault of a heinous gang of spoiled, contemptuous, hateful, pretentious worms who call themselves “The Indie Developers.”


Really. Similarly to the “bully” archetype, hearing someone like Soulja Boy speak in a movie like Indie Game: The Movie provides an incredible amount of relief.

The Film Itself

Due to the Dancing Bear Effect, it will be perceived by our videogame-romanticizing culture as a good film, even though it isn’t one. It’s good, for a documentary about videogames. Nevermind that we actually don’t have a lot of these to compare it to – the videogamers are just happy that reviewers at the New York Times and people at Sundance Film Festival are talking about their favorite hobby!

Why do I think it was bad? Well, firstly, as I mentioned, it didn’t have much of a point. I’m guessing that the point was something like “indie developers exist, and they have personalities, and some of them have been really successful, isn’t that cool?” It didn’t have any kind of theme, or message. It was just this somewhat haphazard portraiture.

For this reason, the film could probably have been 10 minutes long, 94 minutes long (which it was), or 300 minutes long. The pacing and story structure were kind of weak, so I think it would have been a lot better as a 15-25 minute piece. It would have been very easy to achieve the same things they did in much less time.

Much of the film is made up of these random shots of outdoor scenery. Like, they may as well have cut to utterly stock footage clips of a man gutting a fish, little girls singing in a play, or a horse running around a barn. The film itself had a good bit of that same pretentious audience-disrespect that was exhibited by some of its subject.

The soundtrack was basically set to “sad indie movie trailer” the entire time, and it was really jarring during some scenes. However, I think that the soundtrack is a crucial element in the film’s attempt to create an illusion that it had something to say. If a person was allowed to see a version of this film with no soundtrack, I think they would find it really confusing.

photo-full.jpg

Why is there a Super Nintendo controller hanging from a power line? Because ART! If you don't understand it, it's YOUR FAULT!


Overall, this film is not one I would recommend to anybody. I’m much happier with people thinking that indie developers don’t exist, than I am allowing them to think that we advocate this kind of disrespect for the audience. According to IMDB, the filmmakers are new to filmmaking, and it shows.

Let’s put it this way: if this movie was the exact same movie, but about something else, such as fishing or karate instructors, would anyone give a shit?
 

Zia

Member
And here it is, for those who haven't read it yet:

On “Indie Game: The Movie”

It’s clear that Indie Game: The Movie is not a movie that was made for me.

That about sums it up. Peppered with "pretentious" and "hipster," along with actual film critique ("pacing," laugh) from someone that does not know shit about film. Whee.
 
Awesome review Apophenia, completely agree with most points.

Why do I think it was bad? Well, firstly, as I mentioned, it didn’t have much of a point. I’m guessing that the point was something like “indie developers exist, and they have personalities, and some of them have been really successful, isn’t that cool?” It didn’t have any kind of theme, or message. It was just this somewhat haphazard portraiture.
[/I][/b]

I kind of feel the point was to show that indie devs care very deeply about the games they make, and are emotionally attached. It has nothing to do with business....or creating product x and hoping it breaks even.
 

solarus

Member
Whoa that review is fantastic, basically agree with the whole thing. I thought the film was pretty bad, I didn't come out learning anything more about game development or the indie scene than I knew before, was a waste of time. I thought jonathon blow was ok though and edmund too.
 
I really didn't enjoy the film either as I was expecting something else... Not the trials and tribulations of emotional developers.
 

soultron

Banned
Thought it was pretty awesome. Jim Guthrie's soundtrack was phenomenal.

I already like Fish so I didn't need any more convincing, but I had no idea he had such a shit go of things during Fez's development. His dad's health, parents divorce, business partner leaving and so on.
 
To those viewers that the movie was made for, I’m speaking to you, now. There are some things that you need to know. Mainly, the following two things:

1. Not all “videogames” are actually puzzle platformers,

2. Not all indie game developers are spoiled, depressed and pretentious

3. Not all indie game developers are published by Microsoft


;)
 

cilonen

Member
Just finished watching it, really great and well-made. They picked some great personalities for this. You can't help but be impressed at the passion they all put into their games.

It seems weird that the whole rise of the indie scene really only started in 2008-ish. I'm really excited to see what all these guys are doing next.

It didn't. That's just when pretentious scenesters who grew up on Mario and Sonic had learned enough code to think they were unleashing something revolutionary on the world got involved.
 
It didn't. That's just when pretentious scenesters who grew up on Mario and Sonic had learned enough code to think they were unleashing something revolutionary on the world got involved.

Obviously indie games have been around longer, but they hadn't really been exposed to the broader gaming community until XBLA (and later Steam/PSN/WiiWare). The only game I remember getting much attention prior to that was Cave Story a few years earlier.

herp derp pretentious herp derp hipsters
That shit is getting old.
 

cilonen

Member
Obviously indie games have been around longer, but they hadn't really been exposed to the broader gaming community until XBLA (and later Steam/PSN/WiiWare). The only game I remember getting much attention prior to that was Cave Story a few years earlier.

herp derp pretentious herp derp hipsters
That shit is getting old.

Jeff Minter & Llamasoft? Or did you only start gaming recently or something? Anyone who had an Amiga or an ST was exposed to the indie scene on one level or another.
 
Jeff Minter & Llamasoft? Or did you only start gaming recently or something? Anyone who had an Amiga or an ST was exposed to the indie scene on one level or another.

I mean, I guess? The whole industry was completely different in the 80s so having a game developed by one or two people wasn't nearly as unusual.

And I said rise of indie games, not origin. Indie games had basically been under the radar from the mid-90s until the mid-00s.
 

Zia

Member
herp derp pretentious herp derp hipsters
That shit is getting old.

That's my issue with most of the criticism. Just say, "I'm socially maladjusted and feel threatened by these people, or "I am jealous because I feel I could have easily achieved the same success as these people, but haven't for whatever reason." Or offer up some criticism of value outside of hateful non-words and the misuse of pretentious, or Ain't It Cool News level amateur film criticism that reads as if the writer has never seen a Pennebaker or Herzog doc (but of course they haven't, these people post on the internet about video games).
 
so how is the watching a movie via steam experience?

Great! It's in a little adobe app kind of like the final hours of Portal 2. It's got a bunch of extras including the team meat commentary and plays perfectly for me in 1080p.

If you want to watch it on a TV or something, you can find the 1080p mp4 of the movie in the program files.
 

cilonen

Member
That's my issue with most of the criticism. Just say, "I'm socially maladjusted and feel threatened by these people, or "I am jealous because I feel I could have easily achieved the same success as these people, but haven't for whatever reason." Or offer up some criticism of value outside of hateful non-words and the misuse of pretentious, or Ain't It Cool News level amateur film criticism that reads as if the writer has never seen a Pennebaker or Herzog doc (but of course they haven't, these people post on the internet about video games).

Haha, that much projection belongs in a movie theatre!
 
That's my issue with most of the criticism. Just say, "I'm socially maladjusted and feel threatened by these people, or "I am jealous because I feel I could have easily achieved the same success as these people, but haven't for whatever reason." Or offer up some criticism of value outside of hateful non-words and the misuse of pretentious, or Ain't It Cool News level amateur film criticism that reads as if the writer has never seen a Pennebaker or Herzog doc (but of course they haven't, these people post on the internet about video games).

Your posts are absolute fucking gold, a living caricature. You know something is up when every post you make could be replied with an avatar quote.

Edit: Please keep posting forever - this stuff is so funny.
 
Great! It's in a little adobe app kind of like the final hours of Portal 2. It's got a bunch of extras including the team meat commentary and plays perfectly for me in 1080p.

If you want to watch it on a TV or something, you can find the 1080p mp4 of the movie in the program files.
Thanks for that, I had no idea how that would be done.
 

Zia

Member
Your posts are absolute fucking gold, a living caricature. You know something is up when every post you make could be replied with an avatar quote.

Edit: Please keep posting forever - this stuff is so funny.

If you spent less time trolling in indie game threads, and creepily and nonsensically posting my avatar, whatever that is even supposed to mean, you might yourself be able to develop something someday that's actually worth a shit.
 
I like how they (Team Meat) say they won't work for companies like EA. Jonathan Blow has also had issues wth Microsoft. There's so much beuracracy involved. The movie puts things into perspective, all while showing how much effort is involved with limited resources.
 
If you spent less time trolling in indie game threads, and creepily and nonsensically posting my avatar, whatever that is even supposed to mean, you might yourself be able to develop something someday that's actually worth a shit.

Not so much trolling as I am a fan of unintentional comedy - something that your posts are full of (and most threads about the independent game "scene" as well). Your posts are strange because you fluctuate between (inappropriate) references and responses to media (that you deem as "higher" or something) and barbaric insults or very unsubtle jabs that seem to go against whatever persona you are trying to create.

As for IGTM, a pretty mediocre documentary.
 
I, for one, would.
Same here. It was about this collection of personalities, what drives them, and how they deal with the creative process and the work itself. The main difference here is when I see that twinkle of passion/creativity/madness in their eyes I can empathize with it more.
 

Zia

Member
I'm not trying to create a persona, hence why I often choose not to defend myself. I don't really care how you perceive me. Though, I do hope I don't come off as "barbaric" -- the only person I've ever felt I was unfair to was Riposte. There's at least a method to his madness. Your reply just proves the point that these threads are almost always pits for (yep!) projection. It's frustrating to someone that does want to discuss stuff here without filtering through garbage that's not allowed in threads for AAA games and the platforms.

Final post on this, though.
 

thcsquad

Member
I've never seen the movie so I can't say for sure whether or not the guy is right, but these things jump out at me from the review:

1. He used the term 'hipster' way too many times to be taken seriously.
2. He knocks the three developers in the movie for making puzzle platformers, particularly the fact that it's a genre that's been around for a while, and both of his company's games are dungeon crawlers.
3. He thinks posting the fact that Phil Fish has a scraggly beard is supposed to get us to hate Phil Fish more, instead of indicating to the reader that the reviewer is quite shallow.
4. Scenic establishment shots are a pretty well established tool in cinema, knocking the movie for having them seems kid of weird. I'll reserve judgment on this before seeing the movie, but it's clear he's not a film critic yet talks with the supposed authority of one.
5. What the hell was he expecting with the movie poster? It's an interestingly shot photo of something related to the film's content. He was very clearly just coming up with shit at this point.

Basically, the movie may or may not be bad but reading this article made me like the reviewer about as much as I like Phil Fish.
 

Desty

Banned
I liked it a lot. It captured a lot of the passion (and frustration) that the game industry inspires. These people pursued their dreams even though they had plenty of reasons to turn away.

That being said. I would to see another documentary about the mechanics of the indie market. We saw people who were at the end of a long road. I would have liked to see more of the technical side. Do they each make their own editor for their own games? What about UI? How do they contract for art and music? What kind of legal processes to they go through? Do they get money from milestone payments from someone? How do they get devkits? etc. etc.
 
I've never seen the movie so I can't say for sure whether or not the guy is right, but these things jump out at me from the review:

1. He used the term 'hipster' way too many times to be taken seriously.
2. He knocks the three developers in the movie for making puzzle platformers, particularly the fact that it's a genre that's been around for a while, and both of his company's games are dungeon crawlers.
3. He thinks posting the fact that Phil Fish has a scraggly beard is supposed to get us to hate Phil Fish more, instead of indicating to the reader that the reviewer is quite shallow.
4. Scenic establishment shots are a pretty well established tool in cinema, knocking the movie for having them seems kid of weird. I'll reserve judgment on this before seeing the movie, but it's clear he's not a film critic yet talks with the supposed authority of one.
5. What the hell was he expecting with the movie poster? It's an interestingly shot photo of something related to the film's content. He was very clearly just coming up with shit at this point.

Basically, the movie may or may not be bad but reading this article made me like the reviewer about as much as I like Phil Fish.

Perfection! That review is way too shallow and rant-induced.

So, is the Kinesis keyboard a big thing among programmers?

wolfmat said:
We don't have many video game documentaries? What?
http://www.pixelprospector.com/the-b...documentaries/
Welcome to the internet and all that.
(If you only watch one of those, watch the french one about shooters (AKA shmups))

THANK YOU! Loved the one about 3D platformers.
 

wolfmat

Confirmed Asshole
Perfection! That review is way too shallow and rant-induced.

So, is the Kinesis keyboard a big thing among programmers?

No. Most programmers use the good ol' standard keyboards. But mechanical keyboards are on the rise again, at least.
 
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