Support NeoGAF

[DieH@rd]

Good news for people who wanted 2.5D stacking in nextgen consoles. We have first initial predictions about cost of silicon interposers:
http://www.electroiq.com/articles/ap/2012/12/lifting-the-veil-on-silicon-interposer-pricing.html

According to this cost analysis one 300mm silicon interposer wafer would cost $575, and this wafer could be cut into 286 blocks of 200mm2. Great price indeed, just ~2$ for 200mm2 interposer [assuming yield is 100%].

 

[thuway]

Good news for people who wanted 2.5D stacking in nextgen consoles. We have first initial predictions about cost of silicon interposers:
http://www.electroiq.com/articles/ap/2012/12/lifting-the-veil-on-silicon-interposer-pricing.html

According to this cost analysis one 300mm silicon interposer wafer would cost $575, and this wafer could be cut into 286 blocks of 200mm2. Great price indeed, just ~2$ for 200mm2 interposer [assuming yield is 100%].

This equates to superfast bandwith for DDR4 correct?

 

[Globox_82]

so PS4 20GB of ram, cool....

 

[thuway]

so PS4 20GB of ram, cool....

This could explain why Microsoft and Sony are going with DDR4.

 

[Sid]

This could explain why Microsoft and Sony are going with DDR4.

They are?

 

[DieH@rd]

so PS4 20GB of ram, cool....

More likely 1-2GB of ram with very high bandwidth [in the range of 256 GB/s], and separate memory pool with a lot of slower ram. I really dont expect that they will put their entire ram on interposer, at least not initially.

 

[jaosobno]

Good news for people who wanted 2.5D stacking in nextgen consoles. We have first initial predictions about cost of silicon interposers:
http://www.electroiq.com/articles/ap/2012/12/lifting-the-veil-on-silicon-interposer-pricing.html

According to this cost analysis one 300mm silicon interposer wafer would cost $575, and this wafer could be cut into 286 blocks of 200mm2. Great price indeed, just ~2$ for 200mm2 interposer [assuming yield is 100%].

If this is only for memory, that's crazy cheap. I'm starting to think those 8GB RAM rumors are true.

 

[thuway]

More likely 1-2GB of ram with very high bandwidth [in the range of 256 GB/s], and separate memory pool with a lot of slower ram. I really dont expect that they will put their entire ram on interposer, at least not initially.

I would hope some of that slower RAM could be used for actual gameplay.

 

[DieH@rd]

Anyone here speaks Chinese? An AMD employee from china has supposedly described 8xxx series in greater details and left some hints about nextgen console cpus.
http://club.tgfcer.com/thread-6586999-1-1.html

 

[jaosobno]

Anyone here speaks Chinese? An AMD employee from china has supposedly described 8xxx series in greater details and left some hints about nextgen console cpus.
http://club.tgfcer.com/thread-6586999-1-1.html

Great find! If google translate doesn't deceive me, performance boost and price points are both incredible. If 8850 is used as a basis on PS4, the whole system will easily go 3.5+ TFLOPS. However, I don't have a single clue what this means (google translate):

Keywords: 8-core 1.6Ghz cpu + news some keywords can simulate the 3-core, 1.24GHz + the garbage graphics cards Wii u?

I know that 8-core 1.6 GHz was mentioned in context of X720.

 

[ekim]

http://club.tgfcer.com/thread-6586999-7-1.html

lol - look at the last post

 

[ekim]

Great find! If google translate doesn't deceive me, performance boost and price points are both incredible. If 8850 is used as a basis on PS4, the whole system will easily go 3.5+ TFLOPS. However, I don't have a single clue what this means (google translate):



I know that 8-core 1.6 GHz was mentioned in context of X720.

I guess that means, that the 720 would be able to emulate the WiiU without problems.

 

[jaosobno]

http://club.tgfcer.com/thread-6586999-7-1.html

lol - look at the last post

LOL, GAF just got trolled

I guess that means, that the 720 would be able to emulate the WiiU without problems.

Yeah, you're right, it probably means that.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

http://club.tgfcer.com/thread-6586999-7-1.html

lol - look at the last post

Now that is funny lol
All these hints of what next gen systems could have are interesting .

 

[ekim]

From reading the whole thread over there in the translator it seems that the OP hints at a APU + GPU architecture with 8-Core 1,6 GHz/76xx HD grapics + 88x0 GPU.

€: That would be a powerhouse@ ~3,75 TFlops

 

[jaosobno]

From reading the whole thread over there in the translator it seems that the OP hints at a APU + GPU architecture with 8-Core 1,6 GHz/76xx HD grapics + 88x0 GPU.

For PS4 or X720?

 

[ekim]

For PS4 or X720?

Seems 720... but I'm rather guessing than knowing.

 

[jaosobno]

LOL, it seems that this thread is being heavily monitored on TGFC (new post quoting ekim).

 

[Averon]

If the 720 and/or PS4 have 8000 series GPUs, that will easily exceed my expectations.

 

[ekim]

我們為和平而來

 

[jaosobno]

LOL! We come in peace? This is some truly wonderful interforum communication.

If the 720 and/or PS4 have 8000 series GPUs, that will easily exceed my expectations.

Mine too, I was (am) expecting something weaker than 88x0, but I strongly hope it turns out to be true.

 

[ekim]

He writes, that the real message is the usage of a 28nm chip...

 

[gundamkyoukai]

He writes, that the real message is the usage of a 28nm chip...

Well that was expect from a few of us .

 

[amar212]

From reading the whole thread over there in the translator it seems that the OP hints at a APU + GPU architecture with 8-Core 1,6 GHz/76xx HD grapics + 88x0 GPU.

€: That would be a powerhouse@ ~3,75 TFlops

Kazunori Yamauchi crying emerald tears of joy.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Kazunori Yamauchi crying emerald tears of joy.

We still need to know the RAM. He specifically mentioned that as a cause of frustration with the PS3.

 

[Binabik15]

I'd love this. Started playing UC3 yesterday and for all the nice models and great textures I can't not notice the horrible shadows in the forrest, the terrible edge shimmering, aliasing out of the ass and stuff.


More than 3 teraflops with modern architecture and hopefully no RAM constraints as well as a faster BR drive for ND and SSM to go crazy with, tears of joy would flow.

 

[Globox_82]

We still need to know the RAM. He specifically mentioned that as a cause of frustration with the PS3.

well if they are going for 3.5tflops then having a lot of ram is a no brainer, otherwise they can throw that 3.5 in a trash

 

[jaosobno]

Kazunori Yamauchi crying emerald tears of joy.

Except those are probably specs for X720.

Regarding RAM, if Sony goes with split pool once again (DDR3/4+GDDR5), I'm not sure how developers are going to like this, specially late in next gen. Wouldn't want to see another "Skyrim incident" on PS4.

 

[Globox_82]

I'd love this. Started playing UC3 yesterday and for all the nice models and great textures I can't not notice the horrible shadows in the forrest, the terrible edge shimmering, aliasing out of the ass and stuff.


More than 3 teraflops with modern architecture and hopefully no RAM constraints as well as a faster BR drive for ND and SSM to go crazy with, tears of joy would flow.

and it still looks amazing running on .250 tflops. Now if you gave 3.5tflops to ND...wow.

 

[eso76]

From reading the whole thread over there in the translator it seems that the OP hints at a APU + GPU architecture with 8-Core 1,6 GHz/76xx HD grapics + 88x0 GPU.

€: That would be a powerhouse@ ~3,75 TFlops

please be true, please be true, please be true

 

[yurinka]

So can we recap, please? I'm lost after all the huge amount of pages and data. What would be the specs of PS4 and X720 according to the latest findings, credible rumors or leaks?

Multipliers of PS3360 power would be appreciated for people like me who understand better the Dragon Ball comparisions than too techy data (and I think WiiU deserves somthing more than a farmer with a shotgun).

 

[jaosobno]

So can we recap, please? I'm lost after all the huge amount of pages and data. What would be the specs of PS4 and X720 according to the latest findings, credible rumors or leaks? Multipliers of PS3360 power would be appreciated for people like me who understand better the Dragon Ball comparisions than too techy data (and I think WiiU deserves somthing more than a farmer with a shotgun).

If I'm not mistaken, this is PS4 according to the latest reports (somebody correct me if I'm wrong):

- heavily customized Jaguar core APU or Steamroller core CPU (if available in time)
- smaller number of cores than X720 but more performance per core
- 8xxx series discrete GPU combined with a low power GPU (either discrete or GPU part of APU, more likely the latter)
- context switching between lower power GPU (APU) and higher power GPU (discrete one)
- unknown amount of RAM (presumed 4-8 GB, unknown whether it's unified memory or split pool)
- TFLOPS are all over the place ranging from 1.8 to 3.5+

 

[Binabik15]

and it still looks amazing running on .250 tflops. Now if you gave 3.5tflops to ND...wow.

Not only more flops, but more advanced tech, tesselation, maybe SMAA, physics and terrain deformation and stuff!

Christmas feelings every time a new game is released!


If Sony releases such powerfull hardware GoW4 would be the first game where modellors will need a degree in anatomy! I could rip a few baddies apart instead of taking out my textbooks.

 

[thuway]

Wait, why are we talking about 3.50 teraflops now? This reeks of BS.

 

[jaosobno]

Wait, why are we talking about 3.50 teraflops now? This reeks of BS.

Yep. More realistically it will be around 2.5.

 

[Shikoro]

Wait, why are we talking about 3.50 teraflops now? This reeks of BS.

And when me and a few others said that 2.5+ is to be expected, we were laughed at. Some people aren't aware what a year does to technology.

 

[Eideka]

Wait, why are we talking about 3.50 teraflops now? This reeks of BS.

Not, it reeks of awesomeness and fantastic games.

Please be true.

 

[systemfehler]

Via Beyond3D:

"Well that thread only talking about Durango,he didn't mention about PS4

Why i know that?because i know chinese...wait,i'm chinese"

Quote from user N2O

 

[brogan]

I know this is a rumour/leak but...

In Sonys 2005 or 2006, I forget which, E3 press conference they said the PS3 had 2 tflops overall. Which we all know is complete shit. So I'm not sure whether the whole tflops argument is worth having.

I know this could be for the next Xbox but still, it all seems abit silly to me.

 

[DieH@rd]

From reading the whole thread over there in the translator it seems that the OP hints at a APU + GPU architecture with 8-Core 1,6 GHz/76xx HD grapics + 88x0 GPU.

€: That would be a powerhouse@ ~3,75 TFlops

I would not go that far. 2.5TFlops is the maximum I'm expecting.

 

[brogan]

I would not go that far. 2.5TFlops is the maximum I'm expecting.

Agreed. Even at 2.5tflops we are still at gtx 670 levels of performance.

 

[JardeL]

From reading the whole thread over there in the translator it seems that the OP hints at a APU + GPU architecture with 8-Core 1,6 GHz/76xx HD grapics + 88x0 GPU.

€: That would be a powerhouse@ ~3,75 TFlops

AFAIK There won't be a seperate GPU, only APU.

 

[jaosobno]

I know this is a rumour/leak but...

In Sonys 2005 or 2006, I forget which, E3 press conference they said the PS3 had 2 tflops overall. Which we all know is complete shit. So I'm not sure whether the whole tflops argument is worth having.

I know this could be for the next Xbox but still, it all seems abit silly to me.

This. When you compare RSX to Xenos, RSX kills it in raw power (400 vs 240 GFLOPS). However, thanks to eDRAM, and better architecture Xenos turned out to be a much better GPU.

I'm pretty sure that raw power numbers won't tell us much about what next gen console is capable of doing.

AFAIK There won't be a seperate GPU, only APU.

No way, APU alone isn't enough to pull off the next gen jump. I'm 100% sure there will be a discrete GPU. Unless of course AMD has some hidden, top secret, teleported from the future APU in store for consoles (hint: they don't).

 

[Donnie]

I guess that means, that the 720 would be able to emulate the WiiU without problems.

Which invalidates everything else he says.. I mean really, how powerful do you think those tiny little Jaguar CPU's are?

 

[SolidSnakex]

I kind of expect a repeat of this gen in terms of there not being a huge difference between the consoles. But hopefully we won't see a repeat of this gen in terms of devs struggling a lot with Sony hardware. The Vita at least suggests that they've learned their lesson in that area.

 

[DieH@rd]

No way, APU alone isn't enough to pull off the next gen jump. I'm 100% sure there will be a discrete GPU. Unless of course AMD has some hidden, top secret, teleported from the future APU in store for consoles (hint: they don't).

Destkop/Laptop APUs that are used in PCs are moderate... they have strong GPUs and good cpus, but nothing mindblowind.

Sony and MS will however not use those exact models. They will modify them, add most likely 60-80W of 78xx gpu architecture in there, modify cache sizes, memory controllers, bandwidths, clocks, add specialized transistors or removed unneeded ones, and create drivers that will use ever ounce of power that is present in the hardware.

APU that is using ~100-120W and 78xx gpu tech can reach 2 TF of processing power, more than enough to give Naughty Dog a chance to totally rape our eyeballs.

 

[Donnie]

This. When you compare RSX to Xenos, RSX kills it in raw power (400 vs 240 GFLOPS). However, thanks to eDRAM, and better architecture Xenos turned out to be a much better GPU.

I'm pretty sure that raw power numbers won't tell us much about what next gen console is capable of doing.

Next gen GPU's won't be as different to Xenos as Xenos is to RSX to be honest. Raw numbers will tell you plenty, just not everything.

No way, APU alone isn't enough to pull off the next gen jump. I'm 100% sure there will be a discrete GPU. Unless of course AMD has some hidden, top secret, teleported from the future APU in store for consoles (hint: they don't).

There's no specific definition of "next gen jump" though. The jump you get will be the next gen jump by default.

 

[iceatcs]

AFAIK There won't be a seperate GPU, only APU.

As you wish. MS should hope for that too.

 

[ekim]

Which invalidates everything else he says.. I mean really, how powerful do you think those tiny little Jaguar CPU's are?

I don't know

 

[jaosobno]

Which invalidates everything else he says.. I mean really, how powerful do you think those tiny little Jaguar CPU's are?

It's a custom design which we know nothing about. Why would his claim be invalid?

@our chinese friends following this thread on TGFC, we are aware that you mentioned those specs in light of X720, there was a temporary confusion in this topic that you were talking about PS4 (this being a PS4 thread). Care to share any rumors about PS4?