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[cyberheater]

What?
8 cores, 16 threads, coupled with a custom Gpu, with 8gb ram.. In a closed environment.
It will be able to pull off some spectacular results..

What makes you say 16 threads?

 

[params7]

We have to realise that Sony are in a very strained position financially so we shouldn't be too surprised about the lack of confidence with PS4.

I hope there is a PS4 =/

 

[Can Crusher]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1691919&postcount=17709

And the AMD NDA was Dec 17 or 1+7=8. 8870M information was NDA till Dec 18. Lots of 8s but probably coincidence.

Number 8 being (don't read if your sensitive)

Spoiler

gang rapped

everywhere.

What makes you say 16 threads?

Dual threading.

Talking about threading...wasn't MS very worried about single thread performance?

 

[FrankT]

Really wondering what kind of quality titles they can bring at launch.

 

[sleepykyo]

Was thinking the same. Though I still think they should skip launching in Japan first and launch in the US this fall.



The impression that I got from the last set of rumors was that Sony was slightly ahead with their development and it was MS that was behind, at least by a month.

Why the US over Europe? Regardless of when they launch, they don't stand a chance in the US anyway. Skipping Europe could potentially leave them without a leg to stand on.

 

[Corky]

Spoiler

gang rapped

everywhere.

 

[Appollowexx]

These are the kind of specs I had been hoping for.

XBOX 8 is a beast. Now it's Sony's turn to prove they can keep up.

Also the prospect of a possible September launch is insane, the next few months will be pretty exciting and I expect to see some next gen games (unannounced platform titles) shown off at GDC in March.

 

[genjiZERO]

Make's you wonder why that is the case hey? I mean the CPU/GPU are almost certainly made in the same fabs and yet nothing on PS4...but every man and his dog are talking about Durango.

Maybe it's MS approved leaks to build hype?

That's the impression I get.

 

[yon61]

I hope there is a PS4 =/

I wouldn't worry about that. What I am worried about is what Sony will do with it.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

Why are people expecting the AMD Jaguar CPU (if it has it) if clocked at 1.6GHZ to be something fantastic when the latest AMD CPU is barely faster than the Phenom II that came out 2009?

That is really underwhelming that the next gen Xbox is going to have such a weak cpu

because consoles don't equate to pc equivalents.

they just need the cpu to be good at certain tasks. they don't need an all around good cpu. just one that can feed the beast (GPU) and do math at an asian level

physics + lighting are moving to the GPU on next gen engines. that's less of a load on the CPU and the big boys know this. the GPU is the beast, the CPU is what feeds it.

Jaguar should be adequate for consoles. Unlike the previous CPUs in consoles, these can do out of order execution and an 8 core jaguar cpu should be more capable than what we have no in consoles. It's not about GHz, it's about efficiency

 

[phosphor112]

I wouldn't worry about that. What I am worried about is what Sony will do with it.

I feel like they learned their lesson. Kaz knows what he's doing, unlike Stringer the Village Idiot. They have plenty of devs working on next gen, and they will want not only their 1st party to have the best tools they can, but they know how important 3rd party support is.

I think the lack of confidence regarding Sony that Aegis keeps mentioning is because they are keeping specs quiet. To be honest, we know nothing of PS4 specs other than they are using AMD.

 

[Raide]

I want Microsoft to address Gold membership. I want something similar to PS+

Would be nice. If there is anything they should take from Sony, it would be having XboxLive+ with Free games, beta access etc etc.

 

[Mr Swine]

because consoles don't equate to pc equivalents.

they just need the cpu to be good at certain tasks. they don't need an all around good cpu. just one that can feed the beast (GPU) and do math at an asian level

physics + lighting are moving to the GPU on next gen engines. that's less of a load on the CPU and the big boys know this. the GPU is the beast, the CPU is what feeds it.

Jaguar should be adequate for consoles. Unlike the previous CPUs in consoles, these can do out of order execution and an 8 core jaguar cpu should be more capable than what we have no in consoles. It's not about GHz, it's about efficiency

Yes I know it's all about efficiency but if this console is going to last 8 years or more like the last Xbox I was hoping for something beefier. And putting physics on the GPU is not at a free cost, it burdens the GPU alot even with the latest and fastest one (GTX680)

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Great specs if true. Unfortunately if online play is not free then I will not buy it. Make me a believer, Microsoft.

 

[yon61]

I feel like they learned their lesson. Kaz knows what he's doing, unlike Stringer the Village Idiot. They have plenty of devs working on next gen, and they will want not only their 1st party to have the best tools they can, but they know how important 3rd party support is.

I think the lack of confidence regarding Sony that Aegis keeps mentioning is because they are keeping specs quiet. To be honest, we know nothing of PS4 specs other than they are using AMD.

Have they learned their lesson though with the PSVita being the disaster that it has been?

 

[Barack Lesnar]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1691919&postcount=17709

And the AMD NDA was Dec 17 or 1+7=8. 8870M information was NDA till Dec 18. Lots of 8s but probably coincidence.

Classic Rigby

 

[oconnomiyaki]

It's how I feel about these threads. Doesn't matter that there isn't a shred of any credible proof, not even shaky footage of a man in a gorilla suit.

I mean, the sceptic in me is asking how plausible is it that a multiple Chinese forum posters would have access to Xbox development kits.

The technophile in me, though, is really hyped.

 

[Steve McQueen]

I feel like they learned their lesson. Kaz knows what he's doing, unlike Stringer the Village Idiot. They have plenty of devs working on next gen, and they will want not only their 1st party to have the best tools they can, but they know how important 3rd party support is.

I think the lack of confidence regarding Sony that Aegis keeps mentioning is because they are keeping specs quiet. To be honest, we know nothing of PS4 specs other than they are using AMD.

Great post, nobody knows what Sony is up to. Maybe Orbis, or whatever it will be called, is even more powerful. I just can't imagine that Sony doesn't know what competition they will be facing.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Spoiler

gang rapped

everywhere.

I don't see what Mobb Deep has to do with the new Xbox.

All these specs are so exciting. AMD 8800 might not be *top* of the line PC-wise, but in a console it (or an equivalent) could work wonders. Some of my next-gen fears are being alleviated.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Have they learned their lesson though with the PSVita being the disaster that it has been?

the vita is a disaster for so many reasons that wont be an issue with the PS4. The things that matter with the vita like hardware and dev tools and all that are all positive. We already know sony is investing a lot in first party games.

They just need to get the marketing down and that's about it.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

Yes, that must be it. Or maybe I'm trying to give people a more balanced idea of what to expect in terms of architecture, from a position of someone who knows that there is more to CPU performance than just a core count, or a thread count, or an operating frequency.

Also, an accusation of favoritism coming from you is rich indeed.

No, it's not. 8 Gigabytes of DDR3 aren't monster-like. Neither is a GPU from a mid-range series. And neither are 8 Jaguar cores. As I said earlier, it's certainly far from a Wii (U) like product, but it also doesn't seem as close to the technological high-end as 360 was at the time of its release.

I agree.

But at least it´s much better than that IGN report from the beginning of last year (Radeon HD 6670, 6 times more powerful than current gen).

 

[Pistolero]

This is what I like about Microsoft : Their GPU design philosophy is really forward thinking. With the confirmation that Durango parts will be heavily customized components, there is virtually no chance the off the shelf approach Sony is rumoured to have adopted could yield something as efficient. Let's hope the differences will not be that important, for the sake of adequate multi plateforms exeriences on Orbis...

 

[AgentP]

What?
8 cores, 16 threads, coupled with a custom Gpu, with 8gb ram.. In a closed environment.
It will be able to pull off some spectacular results..

All the important info is still missing, if any of this is even true. Lots of low bandwidth RAM and weak cores does not make a beast. How are they going to handle bandwidth issues for the frame buffer? What are the CPU cores capable of? What about heat and size? How much of the system is dedicated to non-gaming crap like DVR, Kinect, etc.?

 

[Blades64]

If this is true, then I hope the PS4 can keep up...

 

[XtremeXpider]

how good are those specs,counting that will probably be half of that ram because we are probably talking about dev kits?

The 8GB is for the retail, the dev kit has 12GB.

All the important info is still missing, if any of this is even true. Lots of low bandwidth RAM and weak cores does not make a beast. How are they going to handle bandwidth issues for the frame buffer? What are the CPU cores capable of? What about heat and size? How much of the system is dedicated to non-gaming crap like DVR, Kinect, etc.?

Current PC ram is DDR3, it is not an issue, they can put some edram/esram. A weak core is a weak core, but if you put a lot of weak cores, you can do more than with only a weak core.

 

[KageMaru]

What?
8 cores, 16 threads, coupled with a custom Gpu, with 8gb ram.. In a closed environment.
It will be able to pull off some spectacular results..

Jaguar cores are single threaded. So if we're looking at 8 cores, it'll be 8 threads.

Why the US over Europe? Regardless of when they launch, they don't stand a chance in the US anyway. Skipping Europe could potentially leave them without a leg to stand on.

US is the largest market, while Japan is the smallest, Sony has more of a foothold in Europe than US, and giving your main competitor any amount of time in their strongest market is a bad move IMO. Sony should hit MS on their home turf as hard as they can. The PS brand is still strong, gamers at large don't really care what system they play CoD on, and if they can create the "friend-effect", they can win over this market.

Edit:

All the important info is still missing, if any of this is even true. Lots of low bandwidth RAM and weak cores does not make a beast. How are they going to handle bandwidth issues for the frame buffer? What are the CPU cores capable of? What about heat and size? How much of the system is dedicated to non-gaming crap like DVR, Kinect, etc.?

All of your questions applies to both Durango and PS4. No matter what, they will be a great improvement over what we currently have. For example, the jaguar cores may seem weak, but they should handle game code much better than the Cell or Xenon.

Current PC ram is DDR3, it is not an issue, they can put some edram/esram. A weak core is a weak core, but if you put a lot of weak cores, you can do more than with only a weak core.

DDR3 isn't an issue for the PC because GPUs have dedicated video memory. Not the same thing.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Sony doesn't have a good track record for successful system launches. Look at the PS3, PSP GO, and the Vita. That is probably what doesn't inspire confidence. At least to US developers.

See PSPGo is not a good example. It's not a brand new console. It's just a new iteration for the psp line up. And from the home consoles afaik only ps3 had issues. But even then given how the current sales are going Sony is heading into next gen on a very positive note. THIS imho is the most positive thing for both MSony going into next gen. And this is also something both the wiiu and vita lacked because the previous consoles lost steam big time towards the last years of their console cycle.

Well it might reduce confidence about when a system might launch in a primary target market for games you're working on...for example. Sony's probably being, or has been, cagey about when PS4 will launch in the US, whereas Microsoft has probably been talking with certainty about launch plans for that market. Things like that could easily give the impression of one company being on top of things whilst another is still figuring things out. Asides from the difference in primary market (Sony launching first in Japan, MS in US), if there's a schedule lag of a few months it would add to that picture too.

Well it depends on who is showing lack of confidence. If it's publishers maybe it's because of uncertainty about release date (at least in some regions) this year. I honestly doubt developers will have issues anywhere near as much as with the ps3. If vita is indication sony will go with off the shelf solution which is very developer friendly. This is why I trust the rumors saying something similar because it's most likely. However Aegis mentioned to me a while back that the problem could be developer tools that sony gives to third parties as they are usually not as good as those for MS. That I can see being a legitimate issue.

Make's you wonder why that is the case hey? I mean the CPU/GPU are almost certainly made in the same fabs and yet nothing on PS4...but every man and his dog are talking about Durango.

Maybe it's MS approved leaks to build hype?

lol have no idea. Recently the only thing I have been hearing is about durango this durango that. That's perfectly fine as I'm excited for that too but god damn where the heck are the Orbis leaks from CHINA!?

I blame Chinese Japanese political tension.....

 

[phosphor112]

Have they learned their lesson though with the PSVita being the disaster that it has been?

It's perfect hardware. There is just no market for such a device.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Jaguar cores are single threaded. So if we're looking at 8 cores, it'll be 8 threads.

But it is a custom CPU, we don't know how custom it is.

 

[Krilekk]

It's nice to want things. Unless they're actually going the route of PS+ which is a darn good service I'm staying away from Gold. Wouldn't surprise me if the "gold-lock" went further than "just" MP.

"You can't access Bloody Palace in DMC5 on a Silver Account"

Darn good service maybe. But it's also incredibly stupid to give away games for free if your business model depends on people buying games. Making people pay to play online is pretty smart, why would they change that?

 

[Soodanim]

Is it worth building a 3570k + 7950 rig, knowing what's on the horizon? I won't be buying a console anywhere near launch (if at all), but if this ends up being a bad time I won't bother just yet, at least not with a high end machine.

 

[phosphor112]

But it is a custom CPU, we don't know how custom it is.

AMD doesn't do multi-threads like that.

 

[AgentP]

Current PC ram is DDR3, it is not an issue, they can put some edram/esram. A weak core is a weak core, but if you put a lot of weak cores, you can do more than with only a weak core.

If you say so, but IMO it is the single biggest issue they face. eDRAM is expensive and thus limited. The have a 10MB constraint in the 360 that has hindered develops. I suppose they will do it again to help BC.

I hope Sony goes with a smaller fast GDDR shared pool and relies on streaming and a smaller OS footprint.

 

[KageMaru]

But it is a custom CPU, we don't know how custom it is.

I HIGHLY doubt we'll be seeing dual threaded jaguar cores. If they wanted a multi-threaded CPU, they would have went with a different architecture.

 

[Camp Lo]

Is it worth building a 3570k + 7950 rig, knowing what's on the horizon? I won't be buying a console anywhere near launch (if at all), but if this ends up being a bad time I won't bother just yet, at least not with a high end machine.

Don't let the bullshit rumors cloud your better judgment. Build your rig and be proud of it.

 

[Zen]

Seems pretty capable.

 

[phosphor112]

If you say so, but IMO it is the single biggest issue they face. eDRAM is expensive and thus limited. The have a 10MB constraint in the 360 that has hindered develops. I suppose they will do it again to help BC.

I hope Sony goes with a smaller fast GDDR shared pool and relies on streaming and a smaller OS footprint.

They will have to have faster ram. It's in their blood. Hell, SONY THEMSELVES complained about the "mid ranged" bandwidth that the PS3 had for VRAM compared to PS2.

Pushing 3D was tough for the PS3, and no doubt they want more 3D. Plain and simple. They want 4k resolutions (even if it is just for video), and to do that, they need faster ram and more importantly a higher bandwidth.

Getting enough eDRAM for the GPU to compensate for something like MLAA and 3D would be super expensive and probably cause heating issues, I suspect they are going to find a different way to accommodate that.

 

[XtremeXpider]

I HIGHLY doubt we'll be seeing dual threaded jaguar cores. If they wanted a multi-threaded CPU, they would have went with a different architecture.

I'm not saying they will make a multi thread Jaguar.

This is a Jaguar CU:

4 cores per CU.

 

[Kibbles]

One guy says he is going to leak specs and then when someone does before him he reports him and tells him he's gone? lol

 

[DopeyFish]

I HIGHLY doubt we'll be seeing dual threaded jaguar cores. If they wanted a multi-threaded CPU, they would have went with a different architecture.

Initial leak was 8 cores/16 threads

So who knows

 

[fallagin]

Wow, that is nutts!! I always love the beginning of a new generation.

 

[Giant Panda]

They will have to have faster ram. It's in their blood. Hell, SONY THEMSELVES complained about the "mid ranged" bandwidth that the PS3 had for VRAM compared to PS2.

Pushing 3D was tough for the PS3, and no doubt they want more 3D. Plain and simple. They want 4k resolutions (even if it is just for video), and to do that, they need faster ram and more importantly a higher bandwidth.

Getting enough eDRAM for the GPU to compensate for something like MLAA and 3D would be super expensive and probably cause heating issues, I suspect they are going to find a different way to accommodate that.

That's probably where those rumors for 2.5D stacking come in. Apparently even the Vita had some minor stacking in it.

 

[Maximilian E.]

Regarding 8core/16 thread comment.
I only write what I heard, that many things will go in the nr "8" (cores, RAM, OS-kernel).. And some things were also a bit more forward-thinking (more parallelism than before) and that the number of threads would be 16..

But this info was given to me some time ago, but I don't think that you change CPU design "just like that".

Anyways, some other insider perhaps can confirm/debunk this?

 

[KageMaru]

If you say so, but IMO it is the single biggest issue they face. eDRAM is expensive and thus limited. The have a 10MB constraint in the 360 that has hindered develops. I suppose they will do it again to help BC.

I hope Sony goes with a smaller fast GDDR shared pool and relies on streaming and a smaller OS footprint.

There's a good chance Sony will end up using the same memory as MS.

Ignoring the rest of your post...

I'm not saying they will make a multi thread Jaguar.

Then I'm not sure what kind of customization they can do related to thread counts. Sorry that's where you confused me.

 

[Reiko]

Nice thread boys

 

[Maximilian E.]

Btw..
Is it 100% sure it is a AMD design, for the CPU? I was sure there was some IBM involvement..

(Didn't MS do the same thing now, as with 360, of owning CPU/Gpu design, custom make it and let others fab it?)

 

[Baconsammy]

It's perfect hardware. There is just no marketing

also

 

[phosphor112]

also

I'm ok with this answer.

 

[Reiko]

Same here. I want them to be as close as possible in gaming performance. Then no one will get shitty ports and it'll be way easier for devs.

No ridiculous exotic hardware from Sony that's hard to program for this time around.

The time of shitty ports will be lessened greatly IMO.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Classic Rigby

Must have caught on as there are three pages on BY3D commenting on all the 8's.