The videos for the original AvP were the dev team at Rebellion. It's quite odd seeing them now and recognising folks I've worked with.
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The exact cost, and breakdown of adding a character to Skullgirls (150k.)
- Thread starter Jac_Solar
- Start date
The videos for the original AvP were the dev team at Rebellion. It's quite odd seeing them now and recognising folks I've worked with.
Given the detail in Skullgirls animation compared to KOF or Arc games, it's not.
The only game that comes close to Skullgirls in animation quality is 3S, and Skullgirls is in a much higher res. KOF/Arc games have about 1/2 the frames at most.
As for the business model, even before the Evo donation drive, they said the game had almost broken even, with the PC version likely putting it over the top (and the Japanese sales I'm sure have put it over the to already as this was pre-Japanese release)
Now, I've been super duper critical of some of Mike Z's gameplay decisions, but I will defend the Skullgirls team hard as everything that's right about indie games, and I have no problem putting money in for this despite my criticisms because everything else is so damn good. Also Mike Z does seem like an awesome dude, so my criticisms are because I wanted the Lab Zero folks to make more money that they really deserve. I did put down money for the Cryamore kickstarter largely because of the SG talent involved.
I really wish they could find a way to open the engine up to others- it is the best 2d fighting game engine this gen in terms of what you could create from it, but apparently it's pretty damn hard. If I won the lottery, and had about 3-4mil to spare, I'd hire the Lab Zero folks for my own dream project, if they could stand working for me (I'd have Fersis do a good bit of the game design, as long as I could shock him whenever he suggests FTP)
I really try hard not to fanboy on here, but the Skullgirls folks earned my fanboyism with the obvious love and talent they put into this game, so I make an exception for Lab Zero.
lettermassing
Neo Member
as a sound engineer, it certainly doesn't cost that much to record a few lines and implement them in the manner typically seen in fighting games.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I bet having two characters in the pipeline would save money in studio overhead as opposed to doing full production on one and then starting on another just from a time perspective (assembly line logic in other words). Probably doesn't equate to 2 for 1 though since the outsourcing is going to cost what it costs regardless.
Honestly, I don't know. I suppose you have to factor in your business partners, release schedules, licensing issues.
I remember a discussion about future fighting games and the concept of there being a League of Legends type deal, where the initial game is something like, 10 characters and 4 maps for $20, then a new character is released as DLC each week. I think, in the end, everyone involved passed the idea off as a logistical and balancing nightmare, but...still, it'd be interesting to see if there's fruit in that idea.
Sure.
But how much would you charge?
zerokoolpsx
Member
The price on QA is right if its outsourcing. It would be cheaper if they have in house QA, but during downtime aka no projects, they still got to be paid. Short term, it saves them more money. The 48k for staff is really low. They really aren't making that much, $600 per person per week. Wow.
darkblade77
Member
What about SFX for her attacks/specials?
I guess there's also her voiced story mode too, though that's just more lines, I'm guessing
Dark Octave
Banned
Makes me wonder how much the game we have today cost to build.
dragonelite
Member
Wait wut this is a kickstarter for dlc?
GuitarAtomik
Member
Tell me you're trolling.
JordanN
Banned
Standards have risen that it's unreasonable to ask one person to make a game without it looking like crap/being full of bugginess in such short time.
Dark Octave
Banned
I think he's just reminiscing.
Hey, so as soon as I launch this thing, I'll answer questions in here.
If you want awful hitboxes that lack any sense of design or balance, sure.
Thanks for your analysis, but I wanted to correct this bit...
This is ridiculously cheap. We can only afford to pay around half of what other developers pay per frame, and ask for a lot more. The only upside for them (if there is one) is that since we have so many frames that one can get more assignments than one might be able to on another project.
We pay $20 per frame for animation and clean-up ($10 for each), and we estimate Squigly will have around 1500 frames.
Why do people agree to it? Because a lot of them are art students looking to get some work on their resume, or they want to work on the game. Like, we had an animator on Korra helping us out in the early days of the game's production.
Implementing sound is a lot of work - I'd estimate Vince spent at least 100 hours per character on the original game, recording and creating sounds and scripting them all in our super-detailed fighting game scripting system.
If you want awful hitboxes that lack any sense of design or balance, sure.
Thanks for your analysis, but I wanted to correct this bit...
This is ridiculously cheap. We can only afford to pay around half of what other developers pay per frame, and ask for a lot more. The only upside for them (if there is one) is that since we have so many frames that one can get more assignments than one might be able to on another project.
We pay $20 per frame for animation and clean-up ($10 for each), and we estimate Squigly will have around 1500 frames.
Why do people agree to it? Because a lot of them are art students looking to get some work on their resume, or they want to work on the game. Like, we had an animator on Korra helping us out in the early days of the game's production.
Implementing sound is a lot of work - I'd estimate Vince spent at least 100 hours per character on the original game, recording and creating sounds and scripting them all in our super-detailed fighting game scripting system.
Thanks for posting this, btw. I was at AOD but wasn't able to stick around long enough for this panel (which was sometime like 10pm at night).
Warm Machine
Member
An actress at industry rates is around $2400 for a 4 hour session.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Wow at the amount of hyperbole and unjustified hate on this thread.
You have people being paid an incredibly low salary by videogame standards AND Los Angeles standards in order to bring you something that they believe in and you still have random game fan bitching about the cost and the good old "nobody gives a shit about this game"
Unfucking believable.
You have people being paid an incredibly low salary by videogame standards AND Los Angeles standards in order to bring you something that they believe in and you still have random game fan bitching about the cost and the good old "nobody gives a shit about this game"
Unfucking believable.
The Grim Heaper
Member
Hey Rav, I remember it being mentioned that there are more TF2 hats in the works, right? Do you know if we'll get them if we get the game via the funding campaign? I'll gladly drop the $30 later today if so.
Our are cheaper than that because they're non-SAG, but we also have to pay for studio time and voice director time.
Also, Squigly's parasite Leviathan needs a voice, too. So that's to cover two actors, not just one.
Yes, and there's a hat that's exclusive only to the funding campaign, as well.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Arent there some stipulations regarding game voice work that it has to be done by an actor/actress that is part of the union? I remember back at EA we wanted to use in-studio people but we werent actually allowed to.
This should get it's own thread no?
By the way...you have my $30
or $50....I really want that sketchbook.
So how do the pre-orders work? Do we get a PSN download code once it's complete?
The Grim Heaper
Member
Yeah, I saw that one. Count me in! I need to play more Skullgirls anyway, even if I'm abysmal at it. Plus I like you guys :3
AstroNut325
Member
Wow! GAF wants new innovative games with great gameplay and great visuals/audio.... for $1.
I'm seriously at a loss of words at some of the posts in this thread. The people who create the games we love should be paid and paid well.
I'm seriously at a loss of words at some of the posts in this thread. The people who create the games we love should be paid and paid well.
Because buying codes from MS and Sony is really expensive, initially the unlock code will be released free, and three months later the price will be increased to $5.
And just like with anything else, if you "buy" it when it's free, you don't have to pay $5 later when the price goes up.
You are either 70, or a cartoon character.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
- have someone from the office do it = the public bitching about shitty amateur voice acting recorded over a tin can.
- reveal how much professional work costs = the public bitching about how much money is being wasted.
I probably should've been more specific. Given their current financial situation, 150K to create a single DLC character for a niche fighting game doesn't seem like a sound idea, especially considering how little they're paying their staff. Again, I admire their dedication and self-sacrifice, but it seems like an awful lot of struggle for very little reward, if any.
It's one reason why console devs have a hard time patching their games.
Also, I imagine the Arcade/Core limitation for patches is still an issue for XBLA games. In fact, it was an issue for this game too.
Shit costs. You think talented people work for peanut butter sandwiches?
Master Milk
Member
Right now this is their career, so the reasoning is either try to make something happen with it, or get a new job.
There were a lot of initial setbacks, but assuming they can get some momentum going and actually release some new content, a new character and the PC release, that will likely open the door for them to continue to work without having to crowdfund, basically they'll be back on track to how it should have been a year ago.
We're working to sign other projects, too - this is just a bridge until Autumn's financial situation is resolved and they pay us what it actually costs to make characters, or until we sign another project.
You have no idea. There's a really interesting giantbombcast from e3 about 2 years ago when they had Jenovah Chen, John Blow, and the at-the-time head of XBOX online operations, and all of the developers at the podcast TORE INTO HIM about how shitty the practices for treating developers were. It was fascinating, but they're really really awful, and the cost often prohibits devs from patching or updating their games.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Its videogames. If it was easy, more people would do it. Its a passion, these people love to make games and will do what they can to make it happen. You think indie startups are formed because it makes business sense? Its not a sound idea because things born out of passion and desire to expand ones craft usually arent.
If you want business sense, go to the medical field. All the money you can possibly want is there.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Which was disappointing cause this was hyped to be a non fan service type of game.
...It was? I remember it being hyped as a small roster, well balanced, gal fighter.
It's fan service, but it's not CREEPY. It's the good kind of fan service.
I really wonder if a good part of the appeal to the Japanese is that this is a western animation game- so the art style is something different to them than what they keep getting.
Dark Octave
Banned
Who do you think they are, Gamestop?
Can you extend that stuff? Most of the high end stuff seemed pretty reasonable to deliever on. Or is it closed as soon as you finalize the gogo...thing?